Best baseball player ever?

[WestCoastHusky]

I don't think anyone said the AL West is so horrible, what was said is the AL East was a far more competitive division than the AL West.

Your losses add up pretty quickly within division when you have to play Astros so many damn times. I like this year's more balanced MLB schedule far far far more better.

 

[McLovin]

Your losses add up pretty quickly within division when you have to play Astros so many damn times. I like this year's more balanced MLB schedule far far far more better.

And there are just as many win opportunities when you have a 100 loss Oakland team in the division…

 

[Chin Diesel]

You thought Frank Thomas was better than Bonds before steroids.

Go sit in the corner.

Age 32 and younger and Thomas' numbers for average and power are much better.

Not even close.

Age 32 is where Thomas hit the wall. Griffey Jr, hit it after age 30. Barry juiced up.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Yeah AL West was so bad that two teams made the playoff while one of them won the World Series.

I know this is an UConn board and there are many Yankees fans, but please take that rosy East Coast glasses off once in a while.

Please compare top to bottom AL west vs AL east.

Three AL east teams made the playoffs, four finished above .500 and the team that finished fifth had a better record than the team that finished third in the AL west. All while playing a schedule skewed to play more division games (nobody in the AL east had the luxury of a team like the 102 loss Athletics in the division).

You may want to take the west coast glasses off. You have an excellent team (best in baseball) and a team that would have struggled to finish .500 in any other division. After that, a ton of not a whole lot. The Mariners would have finished behind the Red Sox if they both played identical schedules last season.

 

[storrsroars]

Age 32 and younger and Thomas' numbers for average and power are much better.

Not even close.

Age 32 is where Thomas hit the wall. Griffey Jr, hit it after age 30. Barry juiced up.

We're talking "best baseball player", which includes speed and defense.

Counting from age 23-30 to account for only full seasons (Bonds started at 21, Thomas at 22), here's the comparable fWAR:
Thomas - 49.3
Bonds - 64.0

Bonds was already a HoFer at 30 (and the #s don't include another 8.6 WAR from his age 21-22 seasons). It's basically accepted that Bonds didn't start juicing until 1999, his age 34 season. From ages 21-33 he achieved 99.2 WAR without PEDs. Thomas's entire career was 72 WAR.

As far as your power numbers, by age 30, Thomas had 286 HRs to Bonds' 292. Thomas had a better BA and OPS.

 

[superjohn]

Age 32 and younger and Thomas' numbers for average and power are much better.

Not even close.

Age 32 is where Thomas hit the wall. Griffey Jr, hit it after age 30. Barry juiced up.

You can certainly make the argument Frank Thomas was an even better hitter than Bonds before he took steroids but The Big Hurt was an elite 1 tool player, Bonds was an elite 5 tool player. Frank Thomas was never a better baseball player than Barry Bonds.

As we know Judge was a way better hitter than Ohtani last season.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

Please compare top to bottom AL west vs AL east.

Three AL east teams made the playoffs, four finished above .500 and the team that finished fifth had a better record than the team that finished third in the AL west. All while playing a schedule skewed to play more division games (nobody in the AL east had the luxury of a team like the 102 loss Athletics in the division).

You may want to take the west coast glasses off. You have an excellent team (best in baseball) and a team that would have struggled to finish .500 in any other division. After that, a ton of not a whole lot. The Mariners would have finished behind the Red Sox if they both played identical schedules last season.

It won't make one lick of difference what division you put Ohtani in, and he would have performed back in 2022.,

Ohtani's batting number would looked way better if he had better production around him in the battering lineup. Judge had that while Ohtani played with literally an AAA team with most of his teammates from last year no longer in MLB. Shohei said it himself that second half of 2022 he just wasn't getting pitches to hit. Pitchers just avoided him in the second half of 2022. There is a reason this year's Angels team is mostly new players.

All this comparisons still doesn't change the fact that Ohtani is way better talent and player than judge in every sense of the word. It is not even comparable, and Aaron Judge himself stated who the best player is in the MLB.

Aaron Judge had a great 2022 year, but we have seen player perfoming like him in the past. We have never seen anything like Shohei Ohtani, and not even Babe Ruth himself is comparable. Shohei Ohtani is truly the best player MLB has even seen in its entire history. We baseball fans are lucky enough to witnessing living history every time he steps on the field.

 

[husky8273]

Willie Mays

 

[FfldCntyFan]

It won't make one lick of difference what division you put Ohtani in, and he would have performed back in 2022.,

Ohtani's batting number would looked way better if he had better production around him in the battering lineup. Judge had that while Ohtani played with literally an AAA team with most of his teammates from last year no longer in MLB. Shohei said it himself that second half of 2022 he just wasn't getting pitches to hit. Pitchers just avoided him in the second half of 2022. There is a reason this year's Angels team is mostly new players.

All this comparisons still doesn't change the fact that Ohtani is way better talent and player than judge in every sense of the word. It is not even comparable, and Aaron Judge himself stated who the best player is in the MLB.

Aaron Judge had a great 2022 year, but we have seen player perfoming like him in the past. We have never seen anything like Shohei Ohtani, and not even Babe Ruth himself is comparable. Shohei Ohtani is truly the best player MLB has even seen in its entire history. We baseball fans are lucky enough to witnessing living history every time he steps on the field.

Yeah, keep telling yourself that.


I love the "Mike Trout is a AAA talent" implication in your statement. It may be the best hot take ever.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

I love the "Mike Trout is a AAA talent" implication in your statement. It may be the best hot take ever.

In no way was that the implication and you know it.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

In no way was that the implication and you know it.

He stated "Ohtani played with basically a AAA team". He could have included "with the exception of Trout" he did not.

 

[Spaceman213J]

I want another 4-5 years of Ohtani producing like he is before he gets the best label. He is certainly doing amazing things, but it can all come down in a hurry. I hope we have at least a decade of him. He is indescribable at times, but tomorrow is promised to no one. Don Mattingly was a force and then a back injury and he was never the same. There are dozens of examples over the years.

If he's traded at the deadline, than every team is in the mix. If he gets to FA, the Dodgers will be the frontrunners. The Yankees will be in on him as well as the Mets, Cubs, Rangers, and a surprise team.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

He stated "Ohtani played with basically a AAA team". He could have included "with the exception of Trout" he did not.

“Trout is a AAA player” is your very wrong and disingenuous inference. It was absolutely not the implication.

 

[superjohn]

It won't make one lick of difference what division you put Ohtani in, and he would have performed back in 2022.,

Ohtani's batting number would looked way better if he had better production around him in the battering lineup. Judge had that while Ohtani played with literally an AAA team with most of his teammates from last year no longer in MLB. Shohei said it himself that second half of 2022 he just wasn't getting pitches to hit. Pitchers just avoided him in the second half of 2022. There is a reason this year's Angels team is mostly new players.

All this comparisons still doesn't change the fact that Ohtani is way better talent and player than judge in every sense of the word. It is not even comparable, and Aaron Judge himself stated who the best player is in the MLB.

Aaron Judge had a great 2022 year, but we have seen player perfoming like him in the past. We have never seen anything like Shohei Ohtani, and not even Babe Ruth himself is comparable. Shohei Ohtani is truly the best player MLB has even seen in its entire history. We baseball fans are lucky enough to witnessing living history every time he steps on the field.

We haven't seen anyone like Ohtani which is why I started the thread. I think he may be the best baseball player ever but I didn't expect this to turn into a let's slight Aaron Judge thread.

The only players who had seasons like Judge did are Babe Ruth plus Bonds McGwire, and Sosa when they were juiced to the gills. Judge was also robbed of MVP his second season when they gave it to Altuve. The guy has come up small in the playoffs but attempting to detract from what he did is weird. He's tied for second all time for homers per at bat with Babe Ruth, he's an incredible player.

 

[superjohn]

I want another 4-5 years of Ohtani producing like he is before he gets the best label. He is certainly doing amazing things, but it can all come down in a hurry. I hope we have at least a decade of him. He is indescribable at times, but tomorrow is promised to no one. Don Mattingly was a force and then a back injury and he was never the same. There are dozens of examples over the years.

If he's traded at the deadline, than every team is in the mix. If he gets to FA, the Dodgers will be the frontrunners. The Yankees will be in on him as well as the Mets, Cubs, Rangers, and a surprise team.

I probably should've said the best talent ever in baseball. He obviously needs to do it a lot longer to be the best.

I think Josh Hamilton is the most talented player I've ever seen before Ohtani came along but he blew most of it.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

We haven't seen anyone like Ohtani which is why I started the thread. I think he may be the best baseball player ever but I didn't expect this to turn into a let's slight Aaron Judge thread.

The only players who had seasons like Judge did are Babe Ruth plus Bonds McGwire, and Sosa when they were juiced to the gills. Judge was also robbed of MVP his second season when they gave it to Altuve. The guy has come up small in the playoffs but attempting to detract from what he did is weird. He's tied for second all time for homers per at bat with Babe Ruth, he's an incredible player.

No slight to Judge at all since he is a great player, but it is not being realistic to hear people saying somehow he deserved Shohei Ohtani in 2022. This year Shohei has put this debate to rest.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

Shohei Ohtani comparing to all the great athletes in the world across other sports. Keep in mind this video was made before this season

 

[Scoe]

No slight to Judge at all since he is a great player, but it is not being realistic to hear people saying somehow he deserved Shohei Ohtani in 2022. This year Shohei has put this debate to rest.

In 2023 not in 2022, let it go Judge won the mvp in 2022 because he deserved it over Ohtani.

 

[Scoe]

2022 Los Angeles Angels Statistics | Baseball-Reference.com

Los Angeles Angels latest stats and more including batting stats, pitching stats, team fielding totals and more on Baseball-Reference.com

www.baseball-reference.com

2022 New York Yankees Statistics | Baseball-Reference.com

New York Yankees latest stats and more including batting stats, pitching stats, team fielding totals and more on Baseball-Reference.com

www.baseball-reference.com

Ohtani had 2 teammates with a higher betting average then Ohtani.

 

[Scoe]

People that like to compare HR numbers forget that Ohtani was 15-9 with 2.33 ERA last year. He also finished 4th in Cy Young voting.

That’s impressive now Judge didn’t have an opportunity to put up those numbers, Ohtani had an opportunity to hit 62 homers and bat .311 didn’t he.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

That’s impressive now Judge didn’t have an opportunity to put up those numbers, Ohtani had an opportunity to hit 62 homers and bat .311 didn’t he.

You spoke like it's easy to being an elite pitcher and an elite hitter at the same time. There is a reason why no one has done it like Ohtani in like over 100 years.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

He stated "Ohtani played with basically a AAA team". He could have included "with the exception of Trout" he did not.

Mike Trout was hurt majority of the year last year. Rendon was out literally the whole year. It is obviously you guys don't know what's going on with the Angels last year at all. Judge's situation was far different than Ohtani.

Trout would have got Ohtani way more looks from pitchers had he been health.

This is the lineup Shohei has played with last year most of the games.

 

[Scoe]

You spoke like it's easy to being an elite pitcher and an elite hitter at the same time. There is a reason why no one has done it like Ohtani in like over 100 years.

You can’t play that game, you can’t say oh look what he did as a pitcher then cry when it’s brought up that Judge batted .311 and hit 62 hrs which Ohtani wasn’t close to getting, can’t have it both ways. Who said baseball is easy there’s also no crying in baseball. Yes what Ohtani is doing is amazing that has nothing to do with winning last years mvp.

 

[Scoe]

Mike Trout was hurt majority of the year last year. Rendon was out literally the whole year. It is obviously you guys don't know what's going on with the Angels last year at all. Judge's situation was far different than Ohtani.

Trout would have got Ohtani way more looks from pitchers had he been health.

This is the lineup Shohei has played with last year most of the games.

View attachment 89387

Your right the Yankees had a whole lot of .200 hitters last year and Aaron Boone as a manager Judges situation was very different he’s the reason his team was in the playoffs last year that’s why he was the most valuable player in 2022.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

You can’t play that game, you can’t say oh look what he did as a pitcher then cry when it’s brought up that Judge batted .311 and hit 62 hrs which Ohtani wasn’t close to getting, can’t have it both ways. Who said baseball is easy there’s also no crying in baseball. Yes what Ohtani is doing is amazing that has nothing to do with winning last years mvp.

Yea Judge got better hitting stats in 2022 for hitting, but he didn't pitch.

Ohtani pitched close to Cy Young level, and he literally carried the Angels on his back on his own.

That's the definition of a MVP. It's not Ohtani's fault all the good players were injured, and he had to play with AAA caliber players.