Best baseball player ever?

[FfldCntyFan]

In no way was that the implication and you know it.

He stated "Ohtani played with basically a AAA team". He could have included "with the exception of Trout" he did not.

 

[Spaceman213J]

I want another 4-5 years of Ohtani producing like he is before he gets the best label. He is certainly doing amazing things, but it can all come down in a hurry. I hope we have at least a decade of him. He is indescribable at times, but tomorrow is promised to no one. Don Mattingly was a force and then a back injury and he was never the same. There are dozens of examples over the years.

If he's traded at the deadline, than every team is in the mix. If he gets to FA, the Dodgers will be the frontrunners. The Yankees will be in on him as well as the Mets, Cubs, Rangers, and a surprise team.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

He stated "Ohtani played with basically a AAA team". He could have included "with the exception of Trout" he did not.

“Trout is a AAA player” is your very wrong and disingenuous inference. It was absolutely not the implication.

 

[superjohn]

It won't make one lick of difference what division you put Ohtani in, and he would have performed back in 2022.,

Ohtani's batting number would looked way better if he had better production around him in the battering lineup. Judge had that while Ohtani played with literally an AAA team with most of his teammates from last year no longer in MLB. Shohei said it himself that second half of 2022 he just wasn't getting pitches to hit. Pitchers just avoided him in the second half of 2022. There is a reason this year's Angels team is mostly new players.

All this comparisons still doesn't change the fact that Ohtani is way better talent and player than judge in every sense of the word. It is not even comparable, and Aaron Judge himself stated who the best player is in the MLB.

Aaron Judge had a great 2022 year, but we have seen player perfoming like him in the past. We have never seen anything like Shohei Ohtani, and not even Babe Ruth himself is comparable. Shohei Ohtani is truly the best player MLB has even seen in its entire history. We baseball fans are lucky enough to witnessing living history every time he steps on the field.

We haven't seen anyone like Ohtani which is why I started the thread. I think he may be the best baseball player ever but I didn't expect this to turn into a let's slight Aaron Judge thread.

The only players who had seasons like Judge did are Babe Ruth plus Bonds McGwire, and Sosa when they were juiced to the gills. Judge was also robbed of MVP his second season when they gave it to Altuve. The guy has come up small in the playoffs but attempting to detract from what he did is weird. He's tied for second all time for homers per at bat with Babe Ruth, he's an incredible player.

 

[superjohn]

I want another 4-5 years of Ohtani producing like he is before he gets the best label. He is certainly doing amazing things, but it can all come down in a hurry. I hope we have at least a decade of him. He is indescribable at times, but tomorrow is promised to no one. Don Mattingly was a force and then a back injury and he was never the same. There are dozens of examples over the years.

If he's traded at the deadline, than every team is in the mix. If he gets to FA, the Dodgers will be the frontrunners. The Yankees will be in on him as well as the Mets, Cubs, Rangers, and a surprise team.

I probably should've said the best talent ever in baseball. He obviously needs to do it a lot longer to be the best.

I think Josh Hamilton is the most talented player I've ever seen before Ohtani came along but he blew most of it.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

We haven't seen anyone like Ohtani which is why I started the thread. I think he may be the best baseball player ever but I didn't expect this to turn into a let's slight Aaron Judge thread.

The only players who had seasons like Judge did are Babe Ruth plus Bonds McGwire, and Sosa when they were juiced to the gills. Judge was also robbed of MVP his second season when they gave it to Altuve. The guy has come up small in the playoffs but attempting to detract from what he did is weird. He's tied for second all time for homers per at bat with Babe Ruth, he's an incredible player.

No slight to Judge at all since he is a great player, but it is not being realistic to hear people saying somehow he deserved Shohei Ohtani in 2022. This year Shohei has put this debate to rest.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

Shohei Ohtani comparing to all the great athletes in the world across other sports. Keep in mind this video was made before this season

 

[Scoe]

No slight to Judge at all since he is a great player, but it is not being realistic to hear people saying somehow he deserved Shohei Ohtani in 2022. This year Shohei has put this debate to rest.

In 2023 not in 2022, let it go Judge won the mvp in 2022 because he deserved it over Ohtani.

 

[Scoe]

2022 Los Angeles Angels Statistics | Baseball-Reference.com

Los Angeles Angels latest stats and more including batting stats, pitching stats, team fielding totals and more on Baseball-Reference.com

www.baseball-reference.com

2022 New York Yankees Statistics | Baseball-Reference.com

New York Yankees latest stats and more including batting stats, pitching stats, team fielding totals and more on Baseball-Reference.com

www.baseball-reference.com

Ohtani had 2 teammates with a higher betting average then Ohtani.

 

[Scoe]

People that like to compare HR numbers forget that Ohtani was 15-9 with 2.33 ERA last year. He also finished 4th in Cy Young voting.

That’s impressive now Judge didn’t have an opportunity to put up those numbers, Ohtani had an opportunity to hit 62 homers and bat .311 didn’t he.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

That’s impressive now Judge didn’t have an opportunity to put up those numbers, Ohtani had an opportunity to hit 62 homers and bat .311 didn’t he.

You spoke like it's easy to being an elite pitcher and an elite hitter at the same time. There is a reason why no one has done it like Ohtani in like over 100 years.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

He stated "Ohtani played with basically a AAA team". He could have included "with the exception of Trout" he did not.

Mike Trout was hurt majority of the year last year. Rendon was out literally the whole year. It is obviously you guys don't know what's going on with the Angels last year at all. Judge's situation was far different than Ohtani.

Trout would have got Ohtani way more looks from pitchers had he been health.

This is the lineup Shohei has played with last year most of the games.

 

[Scoe]

You spoke like it's easy to being an elite pitcher and an elite hitter at the same time. There is a reason why no one has done it like Ohtani in like over 100 years.

You can’t play that game, you can’t say oh look what he did as a pitcher then cry when it’s brought up that Judge batted .311 and hit 62 hrs which Ohtani wasn’t close to getting, can’t have it both ways. Who said baseball is easy there’s also no crying in baseball. Yes what Ohtani is doing is amazing that has nothing to do with winning last years mvp.

 

[Scoe]

Mike Trout was hurt majority of the year last year. Rendon was out literally the whole year. It is obviously you guys don't know what's going on with the Angels last year at all. Judge's situation was far different than Ohtani.

Trout would have got Ohtani way more looks from pitchers had he been health.

This is the lineup Shohei has played with last year most of the games.

View attachment 89387

Your right the Yankees had a whole lot of .200 hitters last year and Aaron Boone as a manager Judges situation was very different he’s the reason his team was in the playoffs last year that’s why he was the most valuable player in 2022.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

You can’t play that game, you can’t say oh look what he did as a pitcher then cry when it’s brought up that Judge batted .311 and hit 62 hrs which Ohtani wasn’t close to getting, can’t have it both ways. Who said baseball is easy there’s also no crying in baseball. Yes what Ohtani is doing is amazing that has nothing to do with winning last years mvp.

Yea Judge got better hitting stats in 2022 for hitting, but he didn't pitch.

Ohtani pitched close to Cy Young level, and he literally carried the Angels on his back on his own.

That's the definition of a MVP. It's not Ohtani's fault all the good players were injured, and he had to play with AAA caliber players.

 

[storrsroars]

Yea Judge got better hitting stats in 2022 for hitting, but he didn't pitch.

Ohtani pitched close to Cy Young level, and he literally carried the Angels on his back on his own.

That's the definition of a MVP. It's not Ohtani's fault all the good players were injured, and he had to play with AAA caliber players.

For whatever reason, MVP doesn't always denote "best player". It was fairly rare that an MVP was chosen from a non-playoff team before Trout. Without looking it up, off top of my head the last one might've been Steve Carlton.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

“Trout is a AAA player” is your very wrong and disingenuous inference. It was absolutely not the implication.

Bullspit.

There was nothing within his post that could lead one to conclude he was omitting Trout from that statement. The implication was clear, per him, Ohtani was surrounded by AAA talent. The implication would be that Ohtani's teammates (Trout was not excluded) are AAA talents. It isn't that difficult to interpret. Claiming that he somehow excluded Trout does however require projecting a lot of verbiage that was not part of the post.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

Bullspit.

There was nothing within his post that could lead one to conclude he was omitting Trout from that statement. The implication was clear, per him, Ohtani was surrounded by AAA talent. The implication would be that Ohtani's teammates (Trout was not excluded) are AAA talents. It isn't that difficult to interpret. Claiming that he somehow excluded Trout does however require projecting a lot of verbiage that was not part of the post.

You are just trolling. I have never implied Trout was AAA talent and you know. You are just making shit up. The line up I posted or a variation of it is what Ohtani played with the majority of 2022.

 

[Scoe]

Yea Judge got better hitting stats in 2022 for hitting, but he didn't pitch.

Ohtani pitched close to Cy Young level, and he literally carried the Angels on his back on his own.

That's the definition of a MVP. It's not Ohtani's fault all the good players were injured, and he had to play with AAA caliber players.

Did he carry them to the playoffs? No ifs or buts or what ifs just a simple yes or no.

Did he hit 62 hrs and with a .311 BA again no ifs or buts or what ifs just a simple yes or no.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

Did he carry them to the playoffs? No ifs or buts or what ifs just a simple yes or no.

Did he hit 62 hrs and with a .311 BA again no ifs or buts or what ifs just a simple yes or no.

Based on those criteria, Judge should be the MVP.

We just have different definition on what the definition of the MVP. It would be nice if the media would just define those criteria before the season so there are no surprises

Baseball is still a team sport, even Trout and Ohtani can't do it by themselves. You still need other moving parts. Ohtani is having a historical season in 2023, but the Angels got hit with the injury bug again so who knows at this point.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

There was nothing within his post that could lead one to conclude he was omitting Trout from that statement.

Basic common sense.

 

[Scoe]

Based on those criteria, Judge should be the MVP.

We just have different definition on what the definition of the MVP. It would be nice if the media would just define those criteria before the season so there are no surprises

Baseball is still a team sport, even Trout and Ohtani can't do it by themselves. You still need other moving parts. Ohtani is having a historical season in 2023, but the Angels got hit with the injury bug again so who knows at this point.

So that’s a yes to both those questions so ok. There’s is a lot changing your stories in your arguments, making excuses for Ohtani. No one is doubting he is the best player in baseball, that doesn’t he should be handed the mvp every year because he pitches. Facts show why Judge won mvp and his team was battered with injuries so you can’t use the injury excuse. If you have to come up with YouTube conspiracy videos your not the mvp.

This is a hill you are going to die on I get it, how Ohtani “got screwed out” of an mvp even though 2 guys in the Angels lineup had had a higher BA then Ohtani. If Ohtani batted at least .290 and hit 40 hr I could see somewhat of an argument.

 

[navery12]

Bullspit.

There was nothing within his post that could lead one to conclude he was omitting Trout from that statement. The implication was clear, per him, Ohtani was surrounded by AAA talent. The implication would be that Ohtani's teammates (Trout was not excluded) are AAA talents. It isn't that difficult to interpret. Claiming that he somehow excluded Trout does however require projecting a lot of verbiage that was not part of the post.

This is the poorest job of trolling I've ever seen. Anyone with a kindergarten education knew what he was saying. And that's besides the point that he specifically mentioned the 2nd half, and Trout was hurt that entire time

 

[Scoe]

This is the poorest job of trolling I've ever seen. Anyone with a kindergarten education knew what he was saying. And that's besides the point that he specifically mentioned the 2nd half, and Trout was hurt that entire time

Doesn’t sound like an mvp to me MVPs carry their team that’s an MVP that’s what Judge did. In his paragraph he also added great hitters in Yankee lineup lol like who DJ Lemiehu (season ending injury) Matt Carpenter ( out till the ALCS missed the last 2 months ) and Benintendi ( out for the season). So much for injury excuses for Ohtani.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Ohtani's batting number would looked way better if he had better production around him in the battering lineup. Judge had that while Ohtani played with literally an AAA team with most of his teammates from last year no longer in MLB.

It's not Ohtani's fault all the good players were injured, and he had to play with AAA caliber players.

Did Trout hit 40 home runs in 2022? Did he play 120 games? Did you exclude him from the AAA teammates that you claimed twice Ohtani played the 2022 season with?

Yeah, I'm trolling and making things up

 

[WestCoastHusky]

Did Trout hit 40 home runs in 2022? Did he play 120 games? Did you exclude him from the AAA teammates that you claimed twice Ohtani played the 2022 season with?

Yeah, I'm trolling and making things up

I hope you been watching baseball long enough to know it takes more than 2 players, even generational talents, to have a winning team.

It is obvious we don't agree on what's the definition of the MVP.

No one gonna convince me Judge deserved the MVP over Ohtani in 2022. Judge had a great AL record breaking season, but Ohtani had a historical season. Ohtani was just more valuable and better.

Also, not one of you addressed the juiced ball controversy. Judge had "extra" help. Statistics showed many of those juiced balls were used at the small Yankees stadium.

Btw, Ohtani just jacked number 31st MLB leading home run just now, and it is not even the All Star Break. He is also getting into his Cy Young pitching form. He is basically Garrett Cole and Judge in one. Is he worth more than one Judge?

 

[WestCoastHusky]

Just to put things in perspective.

 

[storrsroars]

Just to put things in perspective.

Obviously Reggie Crawford is 2nd!

 

[WestCoastHusky]

If we are being fair, we really should be discussing juiced balls.

Here is a ton of info on this:

Will MLB supply these juiced balls for Ohtani this season if he is on pace to break Judge's record this year? Shohei is actually ahead of Judge's pace from last year.

Not that Shohei need it, but it can't hurt. We don't want his record to be tainted, but statistics showed they certainly were used more last year during Yankee games when Judge was chasing. Ohtani has been hitting a ton of 440+ feet bombs.

Albert Pujol, who played with Ohtani, has said Ohtani has the most power he ever seen. Pujol seen Bonds also. That's quite a statement from one power hitter about another.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

Freaking unbelievable. Trout is injured again. People should appreciate how durable Ohtani has been considering his workload. He only missed 2 games this season due to just taking days off. Trout is out 4 to 8 weeks again. When the Angels owner Arte decided not to sell the team despite getting multiple offers in multiple of Billions, he has cursed the team.

Warren injured, CRod injured, Urshela injured, Neto injured, Moore injured, Joyce injured, O'hoppe injured, Rendon inconclusive, Drury injured. And now Trout is injured.

It is back to Ohtani and the Salt Lake City Bees. This was the nickname for the Angels team last year, and it is becoming the reality again with Angels finally getting some wins 1st half of the season. I am pretty sure teams will pitch around Ohtani again like they did last year.

Angels' best move is to probably trade Ohtani right. Unfortunately, owner Arte is so stubborn that he will never give up his once in the lifetime unicorn until he has no choice.