Best 2015 WCBB Players By Position...

[CocoHusky]

Let's not overlook the obvious. Someone from the incoming Feshmen class will be in the discussion for among the best players in WCBB. Last season it was Mitchell, Wilson & Turner, before that it should have been DD, before that Loyd & Stewie, before that KML & Elizabeth Williams, before that Ogwumike & Thomas........ My Candidates would be The Pheenom, Durr, KLS with Salvadores having an outside shot.

 

[Bonpland]

I've enjoyed reading this thread but it brings up one of my favorite sports topics; Why do so many fans put such great weight on statistics?

Deciding player rank based on points scored has never made sense to me. We've seen opposing players who have had great scoring seasons disappear against us (re-watch the last four ND games, and while your at it review the box scores to see how often Taurasi was our leading scorer during those two years that she carried the program to the second and third of her team championships.) Pumping in points against mediocre opponents is not an indication of a player's overall value.

When D was dishing the ball to others and passing up shots, was she less valuable than the players she regularly faced who came into games with a better scoring average than she had?

I think that DD will "light it up" this year, and has been pointed out by others she is now older and in a new situation, but will she make her teammates better at their positions? Sue didn't outscore Alana Beard as a senior, but who would you rather have with the ball in her hands with the game on the line?

The perfect team would be one where all 12 players scored six points a game and then held their opponents to under sixty. What player on that mythical team would be considered for an award?

We shave decimal points one way and another in evaluating talent, but when Diggins was leading ND to victories over us it wasn't her scoring that did us in. It was her ability to help her teammates perform at their very best. It was the Taurasi in her; that swagger that we learned to hate, the same wat that the Vols hated D. That's doesn't show up on a piece of paper.

It's unlikel;y that Nurse wil finish statistically in the top tier of two guards this season, but she very well may be the best at her position come April. And after all when they're slipping the Championship baseball caps on backwards, and smiling for the cameras who would coaches rather have on their team?

 

[TBIF54]

You are being very selective by only going back to the '12-13 season and the three times ND beat UCONN. Just one season prior '11-'12 ND also beat UCONN 3 times in one season. We had Maya-a "seasoned player" for those games but ND had the better team.

Maya had already graduated. If she had been a part of the 2011-2012 team, she would have made the difference in favor of the Huskies.

 

[WestCoastFan]

...and lousy guards at that. Really, I would have a hard time putting them in the "power forward" group, since they both play very soft. Maybe we can have another category: Slow and Lazy??

 

[WestCoastFan]

I've enjoyed reading this thread but it brings up one of my favorite sports topics; Why do so many fans put such great weight on statistics?

Deciding player rank based on points scored has never made sense to me. We've seen opposing players who have had great scoring seasons disappear against us (re-watch the last four ND games, and while your at it review the box scores to see how often Taurasi was our leading scorer during those two years that she carried the program to the second and third of her team championships.) Pumping in points against mediocre opponents is not an indication of a player's overall value.

When D was dishing the ball to others and passing up shots, was she less valuable than the players she regularly faced who came into games with a better scoring average than she had?

I think that DD will "light it up" this year, and has been pointed out by others she is now older and in a new situation, but will she make her teammates better at their positions? Sue didn't outscore Alana Beard as a senior, but who would you rather have with the ball in her hands with the game on the line?

The perfect team would be one where all 12 players scored six points a game and then held their opponents to under sixty. What player on that mythical team would be considered for an award?

We shave decimal points one way and another in evaluating talent, but when Diggins was leading ND to victories over us it wasn't her scoring that did us in. It was her ability to help her teammates perform at their very best. It was the Taurasi in her; that swagger that we learned to hate, the same wat that the Vols hated D. That's doesn't show up on a piece of paper.

It's unlikel;y that Nurse wil finish statistically in the top tier of two guards this season, but she very well may be the best at her position come April. And after all when they're slipping the Championship baseball caps on backwards, and smiling for the cameras who would coaches rather have on their team?

Couldn't agree more. Well written

 

[CocoHusky]

Maya had already graduated. If she had been a part of the 2011-2012 team, she would have made the difference in favor of the Huskies.

Ooops, I stand corrected, I'm off by one season. Actually ND started getting UCONN's number in Maya's last game in uniform FF in 2011. UCONN didn't reverse the curse until FF in '2013.

 

[Orangutan]

I've enjoyed reading this thread but it brings up one of my favorite sports topics; Why do so many fans put such great weight on statistics?

Deciding player rank based on points scored has never made sense to me. We've seen opposing players who have had great scoring seasons disappear against us (re-watch the last four ND games, and while your at it review the box scores to see how often Taurasi was our leading scorer during those two years that she carried the program to the second and third of her team championships.) Pumping in points against mediocre opponents is not an indication of a player's overall value.

When D was dishing the ball to others and passing up shots, was she less valuable than the players she regularly faced who came into games with a better scoring average than she had?

I think that DD will "light it up" this year, and has been pointed out by others she is now older and in a new situation, but will she make her teammates better at their positions? Sue didn't outscore Alana Beard as a senior, but who would you rather have with the ball in her hands with the game on the line?

The perfect team would be one where all 12 players scored six points a game and then held their opponents to under sixty. What player on that mythical team would be considered for an award?

We shave decimal points one way and another in evaluating talent, but when Diggins was leading ND to victories over us it wasn't her scoring that did us in. It was her ability to help her teammates perform at their very best. It was the Taurasi in her; that swagger that we learned to hate, the same wat that the Vols hated D. That's doesn't show up on a piece of paper.

It's unlikel;y that Nurse wil finish statistically in the top tier of two guards this season, but she very well may be the best at her position come April. And after all when they're slipping the Championship baseball caps on backwards, and smiling for the cameras who would coaches rather have on their team?

For me, the problem isn't putting too much weight on statistics. It's putting too much weight on the wrong statistics.

I agree that too much weight is put on counting statistics such as raw point totals. On the other hand it is possible to quantify the contributions of pass-first players by looking at their assist rates, shooting percentages, +/- ratings, etc.

Numbers never lie but people (including myself, of course) are often profoundly stupid in interpreting them.

 

[CocoHusky]

For me, the problem isn't putting too much weight on statistics. It's putting too much weight on the wrong statistics.

I agree that too much weight is put on counting statistics such as raw point totals. On the other hand it is possible to quantify the contributions of pass-first players by looking at their assist rates, shooting percentages, +/- ratings, etc.

Numbers never lie but people (including myself, of course) are often profoundly stupid in interpreting them.

Truer words have seldom been spoken. And just to be clear, I'm not taking a shot I'm among the "people" you reference.

 

[BlueDevils]

...and lousy guards at that. Really, I would have a hard time putting them in the "power forward" group, since they both play very soft. Maybe we can have another category: Slow and Lazy??

You're unfairly criticizing Stevens. Not once did she flat out say she was a guard unlike Wilson. On top of that she has better ball handling and is more versatile than Wilson. Although Wilson has a better inside game. Stevens showed, in spurts, what she can do and her versatility as a FRESHMAN against Uconn.

My point: Stevens is a forward who can contribute from the wing and has better "guard " abilities than Wilson. Wilson is a player who came out of highschool that suggested she was a guard, since then it's been proven that if any incoming forward were anything close to a guard it would be STEVENS who once again never claimed to be a guard. Her actions brought her into the conversation not talk or by the talk of Duke fans claiming she's a guard. If you're going to compare the 2 PLEASE DO RESEARCH. PS. Stevens is NOT a guard she's a forward who can score in multiple ways.

 

[triaddukefan]

...and lousy guards at that. Really, I would have a hard time putting them in the "power forward" group, since they both play very soft. Maybe we can have another category: Slow and Lazy??

A grown man/woman calling 19 y/o college kids lazy ? ??

Apparently the people who selected the USA u-19 team overlooked them being slow and lazy I guess the Russian squad that saw these slow and lazy players drop 48pts between them were even slower and lazier than Stevens and Wilson.

I hope the WNBA teams that select them high in the 2018 draft will overlook their being slow AND lazy Hopefully Duke and South Carolina can overcome two of their better players being both slow and lazy Lemme log off for a bit so i can cut the backyard........ slowly.. and lazily of course

 

[CocoHusky]

...and lousy guards at that. Really, I would have a hard time putting them in the "power forward" group, since they both play very soft. Maybe we can have another category: Slow and Lazy??

If Wilson & Stevens are soft, slow, lazy then who do consider to be tough, fast, energetic?

 

[BlueDevils]

If Wilson & Stevens are soft, slow, lazy then who do consider to be tough, fast, energetic?

Off top of head Tuck, Nina Davis, and Stevie. With B.Jones, coates, Turner, and Mavunga on the outside looking in.

 

[SCGamecock]

View attachment 10293


A grown man/woman calling 19 y/o college kids lazy ? ??

Apparently the people who selected the USA u-19 team overlooked them being slow and lazy I guess the Russian squad that saw these slow and lazy players drop 48pts between them were even slower and lazier than Stevens and Wilson.

I hope the WNBA teams that select them high in the 2018 draft will overlook their being slow AND lazy Hopefully Duke and South Carolina can overcome two of their better players being both slow and lazy Lemme log off for a bit so i can cut the backyard... slowly.. and lazily of course

 

[WestCoastFan]

View attachment 10293


A grown man/woman calling 19 y/o college kids lazy ? ??

Apparently the people who selected the USA u-19 team overlooked them being slow and lazy I guess the Russian squad that saw these slow and lazy players drop 48pts between them were even slower and lazier than Stevens and Wilson.

I hope the WNBA teams that select them high in the 2018 draft will overlook their being slow AND lazy Hopefully Duke and South Carolina can overcome two of their better players being both slow and lazy Lemme log off for a bit so i can cut the backyard... slowly.. and lazily of course

Yup, just like a 19 year old: Play one good game, score some points...from 3 feet away...let some other girl (named Naphessa) do the dirty work and you can hang your hat on that one for a few months. Now, go mow the yard or you won't get any dinner!! Oh yeah...stop sulking too!

 

[Orangutan]

What's wrong with scoring from 3 feet away?

 

[WestCoastFan]

What's wrong with scoring from 3 feet away?

Nothing. Great place to park it with minimum effort.

 

[BlueDevils]

Nothing. Great place to park it with minimum effort.

Welcome to the boneyard. Stay out my way because I will OWN you in any sports argument.

 

[Bestiarius]

If Wilson & Stevens are soft, slow, lazy then who do consider to be tough, fast, energetic?

When I feel energetic, I lie down until the feeling passes.

 

[Bestiarius]

I believe the Role/definition of a "Center" has changed. Today's Center must be able to hit outside shots at a rate that requires defending. That's one of the reasons Dolson became so valuable her last 2 years. It may not have helped her scoring average, but it certainly made the other 4 players more effective. Also, passing ability is a must as well as mobility and footwork. No longer can a Center just park under the basket.

Regarding exclusion of Diamond in top 5 lists. I can see why people might leave her off.

When I think back to her freshman year, her physical abilities were often offset by a lack of smart play. The image of her jawing with the officials but paying no attention to the game in progress left a lasting impression. Certainly she's shown herself to be a good street ball player. But it's been a long time since we've seen her on the court. Between injury, redshirt and a vacation in Italy, it is be difficult to judge what her value will be to the Vols this year. Personally, I'd pick others for the list and take a wait and see attitude regarding Diamond.

 

[WestCoastFan]

Welcome to the boneyard. Stay out my way because I will OWN you in any sports argument.

Thx for the welcome. Nice challenge. Don't be too obnoxious...my momma was from the hills of Carolina...she taught me never worry about a Virginia Blue Blood or a Duke fan. You've ever been in a competitive environment...or you just quote stats? Let the games begin!

 

[BlueDevils]

Thx for the welcome. Nice challenge. Don't be too obnoxious...my momma was from the hills of Carolina...she taught me never worry about a Virginia Blue Blood or a Duke fan. You've ever been in a competitive environment...or you just quote stats? Let the games begin!

until next time.

 

[Huskies Rule]

BTW - it is too soon to know, but Rutgers' Tyler Scaife may bloom this year. She is a great talent. Copper should also have a good year, but I accept that she will never rise to AA status. To me, the rest of the Rutgers squad is a bit of an enigma, but no one that I expect to reach AA levels.

My post may wander a bit off topic, but I've long followed RU WBB, and this seems as good a time as any to add this:

Scaife and Copper are tremendous talents- I've been to a dozen Rutgers home games and that's quite apparent. And Betnijah Laney was even better! So what's happened to RU? Rutgers is perhaps THE most under-achieving program in America. For the past several years, RU has had a nucleus of dynamite players, every starter a top 50 Hoopgurlz HS recruit, with both Laney and Rachel Hollivay rated as #2 at their positions in the nation, while Scaife was top ten! That's a really impressive recruiting class with decidedly unimpressive results. So far only Laney has managed to live up to her lofty ranking, though Scaife and Copper may yet do so.

C Vivian Stringer may be a HOF-honored coach, but she hasn't gotten the job done in many years at RU, and I think she is the problem- whether it's her coaching or playing strategy or whatever, a team with Laney, Scaife and Copper (and despite Hollivay and Davis injuries) should have been way more successful. I've long liked RU WBB, but it is a huge enigma and a disappointment, and I gotta blame coach.

 

[UcMiami]

My post may wander a bit off topic, but I've long followed RU WBB, and this seems as good a time as any to add this:

Scaife and Copper are tremendous talents- I've been to a dozen Rutgers home games and that's quite apparent. And Betnijah Laney was even better! So what's happened to RU? Rutgers is perhaps THE most under-achieving program in America. For the past several years, RU has had a nucleus of dynamite players, every starter a top 50 Hoopgurlz HS recruit, with both Laney and Rachel Hollivay rated as #2 at their positions in the nation, while Scaife was top ten! That's a really impressive recruiting class with decidedly unimpressive results. So far only Laney has managed to live up to her lofty ranking, though Scaife and Copper may yet do so.

C Vivian Stringer may be a HOF-honored coach, but she hasn't gotten the job done in many years at RU, and I think she is the problem- whether it's her coaching or playing strategy or whatever, a team with Laney, Scaife and Copper (and despite Hollivay and Davis injuries) should have been way more successful. I've long liked RU WBB, but it is a huge enigma and a disappointment, and I gotta blame coach.

I have felt that it is a while since RU has had a balanced and talented roster - great individual talents at some positions, but especially at guard though also at center their have been gaps in available talent (or coaching or execution.) Lately they have been lacking in anyone to spread the floor from three point land.

 

[WestCoastFan]

until next time.

Giddy Up, Dukie

 

[WestCoastFan]

My post may wander a bit off topic, but I've long followed RU WBB, and this seems as good a time as any to add this:

Scaife and Copper are tremendous talents- I've been to a dozen Rutgers home games and that's quite apparent. And Betnijah Laney was even better! So what's happened to RU? Rutgers is perhaps THE most under-achieving program in America. For the past several years, RU has had a nucleus of dynamite players, every starter a top 50 Hoopgurlz HS recruit, with both Laney and Rachel Hollivay rated as #2 at their positions in the nation, while Scaife was top ten! That's a really impressive recruiting class with decidedly unimpressive results. So far only Laney has managed to live up to her lofty ranking, though Scaife and Copper may yet do so.

C Vivian Stringer may be a HOF-honored coach, but she hasn't gotten the job done in many years at RU, and I think she is the problem- whether it's her coaching or playing strategy or whatever, a team with Laney, Scaife and Copper (and despite Hollivay and Davis injuries) should have been way more successful. I've long liked RU WBB, but it is a huge enigma and a disappointment, and I gotta blame coach.

Good write-up. Watching them a few times in the past years on TV, CV seems to be going thru the motions. Kind of reminds me of the final few years of Bobby Bowden and Paterno. What have you done for me lately!