Bench Secret - Less is More?

[campcalhoun2009]

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that our bench had their best performance as a group when Stewart was out.

Hurley’s biggest weakness all year has been sub patterns. We’ve gotten caught multiple games with way too many minutes of 3 or even 4 of Malachi/Ross/Stewart/Reibe on the court together at the same time.

That severely limits the offense and usually throws the game out of rhythm.

Having Stewart unavailable made the sub patterns way more obvious and clean, with Ross getting the “first up” treatment rotating for our wings, Reibe spelling Reed, and Mali getting his handful of minutes to spell Silas.

This kept Mullins and Ball hot, Reed fresh and Karaban able to play off of multiple different complimentary groupings.

Stewart’s play has been brutal since his good 10 min stretch vs Providence, and keeping him out of the rotation and trimming our tournament run team to 8 guys feels like the right move. I think trying to force minutes for him really muddies the waters and Hurley hasn’t really figured out how to juggle a 9 man lineup almost all year.

 

[GampelGladiator]

Records per top 9 player availability.

FULL STRENGTH
14-2

DOWN ONE PLAYER
10-0

DOWN TWO PLAYERS
2-1

 

[Palatine]

Stew has been in a small slump with a nice game against Nova mixed in. He was very important in our early season run. There is no real support we're better with him sidelined.

 

[REB1094]

Literally the game before against Villanova, they had 22 points and 12 rebounds. Reibe 8, Stewart 6, Ross and Malachi 4

Stewart’s minutes have been trending down as he’s performed worse as the year has gone on. Ross’ have trended up as he’s performed better. I see it like a 2023 Diarra/Calcaterra situation. Both valuable situationally, both unplayable situationally

We’ll need both to contribute to make a deep run, unless Solo/Braylon/AK can each play 30+ minutes a game effectively

 

[campcalhoun2009]

Literally the game before against Villanova, they had 22 points and 12 rebounds. Reibe 8, Stewart 6, Ross and Malachi 4

Stewart’s minutes have been trending down as he’s performed worse as the year has gone on. Ross’ have trended up as he’s performed better. I see it like a 2023 Diarra/Calcaterra situation. Both valuable situationally, both unplayable situationally

We’ll need both to contribute to make a deep run, unless Solo/Braylon/AK can each play 30+ minutes a game effectively

I dont see why our 3 best wing players can’t play 30 min a game.

Especially if Ross’s minutes continue to tick up.

The bench always tends to shorten in March.

 

[RuffRuff]

Hard to make a determination after one game, no matter what the outcome. He would seem to be a "spare" part, as we don't really need 2 backup threes and I highly prefer Ross.

 

[Drame]

No dont think this is it. The staff was much more specific with their substitutions, based on who St Johns was subbing onto the game. They had specific matchups in mind and they worked.

 

[Tenspro2002]

You can only play 5 at a time.

Our most dominant team ever played maybe 7.5 guys.

"Depth" is the most inane and overrated discussion every offseason. It's like the saying that if you have 2 viable quarterbacks, you have no quarterback.

I don't know if squeezing Stewart out is the right call, and I think there's something to the idea that the bench guys having a stronger sense of their roles with fewer of them available and forced to get minutes, but it's worth a thought.

 

[aburks41]

Stewart still has a role on this team but I hate hate hate the lineups with Ross and Stewart on the court together

 

[noelle]

nonsense. dan was just a bit too strict with pulling the bench, crushing their confidence/putting guys on edge. it's better now.

 

[superjohn]

You can only play 5 at a time.

Our most dominant team ever played maybe 7.5 guys.

"Depth" is the most inane and overrated discussion every offseason. It's like the saying that if you have 2 viable quarterbacks, you have no quarterback.

I don't know if squeezing Stewart out is the right call, and I think there's something to the idea that the bench guys having a stronger sense of their roles with fewer of them available and forced to get minutes, but it's worth a thought.

Pointing out that the best starting 5 ever didn't need much depth is a strange take. The title team the year before had great depth. We're absolutely going to need our bench to play well if we want to accomplish our team goals.

 

[aceboon]

they literally just had a 20 point second half lead on the road vs Nova with Stewart playing and Hurley specifically singled out Stewart as someone he should have been playing/trusting more

 

[RuffRuff]

they literally just had a 20 point second half lead on the road vs Nova with Stewart playing and Hurley specifically singled out Stewart as someone he should have been playing/trusting more

Stew was +6 in that game, Ross +16.

We know Stew at this point to site one game - we've had 3 seasons worth of watching him. I hate to say it, but not sure what he brings additive to the roster other than spelling minutes. Ross brings defense, energy, consistency and has shown an evolving offensive game. I had hoped Stew developed some interior presence given his size, but he seems to be a player that prefers huvvering around the 3 pt line.

Stew has shown a propensity to heave ill advised 3s too quickly - sure he makes them once in awhile, but it feels happenstance. I don't love his shot at all - it's a knuckleball.

 

[HW611]

they literally just had a 20 point second half lead on the road vs Nova with Stewart playing and Hurley specifically singled out Stewart as someone he should have been playing/trusting more

I’m not saying agreeing or disagreeing with what should happen with Stew.

But I think Hurley’s comments are more about soft launching his recruitment of Stew again for this summer. Which after two times of probably telling him he’s going to have a significant role, will be an interesting one if that’s what he plans on doing.

 

[RuffRuff]

I’m not saying agreeing or disagreeing with what should happen with Stew.

But I think Hurley’s comments are more about soft launching his recruitment of Stew again for this summer. Which after two times of probably telling him he’s going to have a significant role, will be an interesting one if that’s what he plans on doing.

Stew's 4th year is going to be an interesting watch. He and Furphy's.

I think Ross is 100% back.

 

[GHSWolverines]

We are closing in on tournament time. In my opinion, an 8 man rotation works best unless we have foul trouble or injuries. The sample size has been big enough and I would take Ross over Stewie in this rotation. I am curious why Stewie was dressed in plain clothes for the St. John's game. I know they said he was not playing. But no reason was given.

 

[aceboon]

We are closing in on tournament time. In my opinion, an 8 man rotation works best unless we have foul trouble or injuries. The sample size has been big enough and I would take Ross over Stewie in this rotation. I am curious why Stewie was dressed in plain clothes for the St. John's game. I know they said he was not playing. But no reason was given.

A reason was given, knee inflammation, his status is day-to-day

 

[NJHusky]

Stew was +6 in that game, Ross +16.

We know Stew at this point to site one game - we've had 3 seasons worth of watching him. I hate to say it, but not sure what he brings additive to the roster other than spelling minutes. Ross brings defense, energy, consistency and has shown an evolving offensive game. I had hoped Stew developed some interior presence given his size, but he seems to be a player that prefers huvvering around the 3 pt line.

Stew has shown a propensity to heave ill advised 3s too quickly - sure he makes them once in awhile, but it feels happenstance. I don't love his shot at all - it's a knuckleball.

Stew's issue is he's playing behind someone that is Hurley's security blanket and gets 35 min a game....he's never had PT to develop his game properly and most of his time is at the 3, where he's not really built for

 

[RuffRuff]

Stew's issue is he's playing behind someone that is Hurley's security blanket and gets 35 min a game....he's never had PT to develop his game properly and most of his time is at the 3, where he's not really built for

We'll see - I guess my question is, have we seen him exhibit the type of 4 skills necessary to start next to Reibe for a NC caliber FC? Especially after what we've seen this year really drive the top of the college game. Every one of these top teams are loaded at the 4-5, sometimes even the 3-4-5. Hurley has already shown interest in Pierce.

He's not what I would call a great outside shooter - inconsistent at best. And he has gotten a ton of minutes throughout his career.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

Hurley’s biggest weakness all year has been sub patterns.

Having Stewart unavailable made the sub patterns way more obvious and clean, with Ross getting the “first up” treatment rotating for our wings, Reibe spelling Reed, and Mali getting his handful of minutes to spell Silas.

Hurley hasn’t really figured out how to juggle a 9 man lineup almost all year.

I agree that it has been more a Hurley issue than a Stewart issue.

I appreciate the data offered below, and imagine that the full strength record includes more of the wins that were bothersome in their close margins, and presented the challenge of incorporating a high ceiling freshman who got a late start and has not yet jumped to reliable maturity.

Given the anticipated competition in the NCAA Tourney, it makes sense that 8 players might not seem like enough, even while 9 might seem like too many. It is not a settled issue, and fits with my belief from the OOC schedule that injuries, chemistry, and coaching would be the most important determinants of team success in this year of high variety among the top teams.

Records per top 9 player availability.

FULL STRENGTH
14-2

DOWN ONE PLAYER
10-0

DOWN TWO PLAYERS
2-1

 

[navery12]

I dont see why our 3 best wing players can’t play 30 min a game.

Especially if Ross’s minutes continue to tick up.

The bench always tends to shorten in March.

Before I respond, who are you considering our 3 best wing players?

 

[navery12]

We'll see - I guess my question is, have we seen him exhibit the type of 4 skills necessary to start next to Reibe for a NC caliber FC? Especially after what we've seen this year really drive the top of the college game. Every one of these top teams are loaded at the 4-5, sometimes even the 3-4-5. Hurley has already shown interest in Pierce.

He's not what I would call a great outside shooter - inconsistent at best. And he has gotten a ton of minutes throughout his career.

Start, no. But I'm not sure why that's the bar. Just like Ross there will be plenty of minutes available for both to come back and have key roles off the bench. Whether they want that is another story but the minutes are there

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

Stew was +6 in that game, Ross +16.

We know Stew at this point to site one game - we've had 3 seasons worth of watching him. I hate to say it, but not sure what he brings additive to the roster other than spelling minutes. Ross brings defense, energy, consistency and has shown an evolving offensive game. I had hoped Stew developed some interior presence given his size, but he seems to be a player that prefers huvvering around the 3 pt line.

Stew has shown a propensity to heave ill advised 3s too quickly - sure he makes them once in awhile, but it feels happenstance. I don't love his shot at all - it's a knuckleball.

Your regular forum-wide use of "we" and "you" as personal pronouns fail because they do not apply to me. As such, I track them as sneaky dodges from just writing "I," and regard them as symptomatic of doomed-to-fail attempts to control the narrative when you use them.

Realistically, you're a guy who posts a lot, projects himself as authoritative, and sometimes offers well-sourced items that aren't self-generated. For the last of those, thank you.

If you should get your call up to the big leagues, your persona will benefit from having been workshopped here, but it won't be a point of pride to say, "I knew you when."

Thanks for making me chuckle when you wrote "site" and "huvvering" in this thread. Your use of "knuckleball" was more of a gutterball. Along with your shape-shifting takes, such gaffes keep things lively, and inspire me to want to flip a coin between saying, "Post more" and, “Post less."

 

[NJHusky]

Start, no. But I'm not sure why that's the bar. Just like Ross there will be plenty of minutes available for both to come back and have key roles off the bench. Whether they want that is another story but the minutes are there

Don't y think a 4th year player in this system would have a big advantage over anyone they brought in via portal? Lots of folks see his limitations, I see a guy that really hasn't had much run at his natural position. He's shown he can hit shots, he's a good passer and selfless player...he just needs a legit chance to play. Him and AK playing together is not a legit chance imo, nor is it playing with all bench guys

I'm glad he's here, but if he knew AK was coming back I wonder if he would have portaled

 

[RuffRuff]

Don't y think a 4th year player in this system would have a big advantage over anyone they brought in via portal? Lots of folks see his limitations, I see a guy that really hasn't had much run at his natural position. He's shown he can hit shots, he's a good passer and selfless player...he just needs a legit chance to play. Him and AK playing together is not a legit chance imo, nor is it playing with all bench guys

I'm not seeing it from a pure skill/fit perspective. We would have seen more in some capacity. He's gotten plenty of minutes.