Belichick & Geno: Most Hated?

[huskyd]

In this week's Sports Illustrated, Peter King leads off an issue largely devoted to the NFL and mostly to the New England Patriots. King identifies the Pats as the most “hated” team in its sport due to its great success and dominance, I think that in WCBB, UConn shares this distinction with NE. Here on the BY we take quick note of the “haters” in our midst. But, King asks, is this really “hatred” or something else?

He poses a question to explore a wider range of emotions than just “hate.”

What best describes your feeling about the Patriots?

-Admiration

-Envy

-Hatred

-Boredom

He received via Twitter almost 17,000 responses “in half a day.” Results: Admiration=46%; Hatred=27%; Envy=14%; Boredom=13%. Surprised? King was. He admits the poll was “unscientific,” But he concludes that “there appears to be a growing (if grudging) respect for a team that has stayed on top” as long as the Pats.

There's a lot more to it, but it all adds up to what King suspects is a changing attitude about consistent greatness--more admiration, less hatred. When I read this, I thought: this is really about UConn (w/out the deflation scandal). Wonder if we'll share in this trend.

 

[eebmg]

I think that admiration would win but I also think that there may be more negative reactions than the above poll towards UConn based on 2 differences

1) The point differential of the games is often very high. This is not a general phenomenon in football
2) In a cap locked environment, there is far better distribution of talent in the NFL whereas UConn will always be looked upon as getting the best players (or nearly so) and subtle points regarding how UConn build teams that are better than the sum of their parts will be missed.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

For me, week in and week out, during the NFL season I'd be in the 13% bored column, but big picture it would be admiration , for a reason @eebmg mentions for UConn: how Belichick builds teams greater than the sum of their parts. Gotta give the devil his due for in season adjustments to deal with injuries as well. The whole cigar store indian press relations thing, not so much, though it beats the histrionics that break out in press conferences on a bad day with his more affable, accommodating brethren in the league.

I suspect Geno in the big boys league, the NBA, would look a lot like how Belichick carries himself at this point, if he had not imploded mentally or physically, lacking a CD to deal with this and that. Picture Jerry Tarkanian and a certain chair flinging fella combined., though we should all live so long as Jerry.

 

[Golden Husky]

For me, week in and week out, during the NFL season I'd be in the 13% bored column, but big picture it would be admiration , for a reason @eebmg mentions for UConn: how Belichick builds teams greater than the sum of their parts. Gotta give the devil his due for in season adjustments to deal with injuries as well. The whole cigar store indian press relations thing, not so much, though it beats the histrionics that break out in press conferences on a bad day with his more affable, accommodating brethren in the league.

I suspect Geno in the big boys league, the NBA, would look a lot like how Belichick carries himself at this point, if he had not imploded mentally or physically, lacking a CD to deal with this and that. Picture Jerry Tarkanian and a certain chair flinging fella combined., though we should all live so long as Jerry.

I don't think the NBA would change Geno. UConn women's basketball is a "big boys league" and Auriemma has had more press attention and scrutiny than all but a handful of NBA coaches.

Watch Geno answer a question. He pauses, actually thinks about what he's been asked--even if he's been asked the same thing in a different way, hundreds of times--and provides what usually is a thoughtful, and often quotable, response.

Belichick is petulant and dismissive of the press. His contempt is obvious. Auriemma may not like the media but he understands how he can use it to shape his narrative, brand his program and influence parents and potential recruits. Both are savvy, transcendent coaches but Geno has the people skills to succeed in other aspects of the life experience where The Hoodie would fail.

And while both have been extremely successful, Belichick carries the stain of more than one cheating scandal.

I think, were the question asked about UConn women's basketball, the Huskies would beat the Patriots in the "admiration" category and have fewer respondents label their primary emotion for the team as "hatred."

Not that I'm biased, or anything.

 

[bags27]

Belichick is petulant and dismissive of the press. His contempt is obvious. Auriemma may not like the media but he understands how he can use it to shape his narrative, brand his program and influence parents and potential recruits. Both are savvy, transcendent coaches but Geno has the people skills to succeed in other aspects of the life experience where The Hoodie would fail.
.

Clearly you don't waste nearly enough of your time listening to his pressers. . He will go on and on about any FOOTBALL question, but he will not answer a question about player personnel. His answers about football strategy, etc. are legendary and brilliant. So, it's not contempt for the press, but contempt for questions that invade the privacy of his players. And in turn, he is as beloved by his players as Geno is by his. You'll never hear an ex-Patriot bad mouth him.

For me, the similarity is that both Geno and Belichick are incredible teachers. They know and can communicate the game better than anyone I've ever heard of. Heck, they are flat out two of the greatest teachers in the world, period.

The difference is, as eebmg notes above, UConn can get top tier players on a continual basis, while the Patriots have been at or near the top since 2001 and so, by the rules of the NFL, are always near or at the bottom of selecting player personnel.

Maybe the greatest single testament to Belichick's genius (not a word I use casually) is the picture of the Patriots lining up on the final play of Superbowl LXI. There is 1 first round draft choice (LT), one 4th rounder (RB), and the other 9 were drafted rounds 5-7 or UFAs. Bill turns dross into gold. Geno turns gold into platinum.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

I still think you guys vastly over-rate the "hatred" of UConn. Granted it is real in some quarters, just as it is real for any other successful team - I suspect, in addition to the Patriots, that the Celtics in the day, NY Yankees and many others were "hated". But I really think the vast majority of the WBB world views Geno with respect and the program he has built with some combination of admiration and envy.

I was just reflecting the other day (across the college sports landscape) that there are programs in the various sports where I just can't root for any of a schools teams (Alabama, for example) to some where I pretty much am ok with them across the board (Stanford comes to mind) while there are many schools where there is one sport (out of the ones I follow) that I "like" and not the other sports at that school - for example, Oregon State WBB or Georgia softball are programs I like. Is it rational - no, not always, but quite frankly I don't "hate" any of them.

 

[huskyd]

Bags, those last two line turn posting into poetry.

 

[Woof 101]

Clearly you don't waste nearly enough of your time listening to his pressers. . He will go on and on about any FOOTBALL question, but he will not answer a question about player personnel. His answers about football strategy, etc. are legendary and brilliant. So, it's not contempt for the press, but contempt for questions that invade the privacy of his players. And in turn, he is as beloved by his players as Geno is by his. You'll never hear an ex-Patriot bad mouth him.

For me, the similarity is that both Geno and Belichick are incredible teachers. They know and can communicate the game better than anyone I've ever heard of. Heck, they are flat out two of the greatest teachers in the world, period.

The difference is, as eebmg notes above, UConn can get top tier players on a continual basis, while the Patriots have been at or near the top since 2001 and so, by the rules of the NFL, are always near or at the bottom of selecting player personnel.

Maybe the greatest single testament to Belichick's genius (not a word I use casually) is the picture of the Patriots lining up on the final play of Superbowl LXI. There is 1 first round draft choice (LT), one 4th rounder (RB), and the other 9 were drafted rounds 5-7 or UFAs. Bill turns dross into gold. Geno turns gold into platinum.

This post by bags27 will save many a lot of typing for sure, most needed is ditto. All here spot on...
As to the OP, no malice intended, I have no problem with someone trying to create dialog on an even playing field. Comparing an NFL coach and what that job entails to a NCAA woman's basketball coach is like apples and lug nuts.
Haters are going to hate but for the most part Geno is very well respected by opponents and coaches nation wide. He opens his practices to all and even gave incite to the coach that beat him in the final four last year. He coaches / teaches amateurs.
As for BB he coaches professionals in a totally different sport / world / business.

There will always be those that hate or envy a team that is always winning. Having said that most good coaches / teachers will dig in and find out how to do the same.

 

[willtalk]

The most important comparison would be if Geno was ever caught inflating a game ball.

 

[Golden Husky]

Clearly you don't waste nearly enough of your time listening to his pressers. . He will go on and on about any FOOTBALL question, but he will not answer a question about player personnel. His answers about football strategy, etc. are legendary and brilliant. So, it's not contempt for the press, but contempt for questions that invade the privacy of his players. And in turn, he is as beloved by his players as Geno is by his. You'll never hear an ex-Patriot bad mouth him.

For me, the similarity is that both Geno and Belichick are incredible teachers. They know and can communicate the game better than anyone I've ever heard of. Heck, they are flat out two of the greatest teachers in the world, period.

The difference is, as eebmg notes above, UConn can get top tier players on a continual basis, while the Patriots have been at or near the top since 2001 and so, by the rules of the NFL, are always near or at the bottom of selecting player personnel.

Maybe the greatest single testament to Belichick's genius (not a word I use casually) is the picture of the Patriots lining up on the final play of Superbowl LXI. There is 1 first round draft choice (LT), one 4th rounder (RB), and the other 9 were drafted rounds 5-7 or UFAs. Bill turns dross into gold. Geno turns gold into platinum.

Well, former Patriot players Steve Grogan, Brandon Spikes, Richard Seymour, Adalius Thomas and Wes Welker all have been quoted saying uncomplimentary thinks about Belichick.

The difference between Auriemma and Belichick isn't so much the personnel as it is the person.

 

[svetbird]

I HATE Belichick. He and his team may win a lot but have been caught (and not caught) cheating many times. Geno plays and wins by the rules. It seems even when they don't have any reason to chat (taping and using signs from the lowly Buffalo Bills) the Patriots do anyway. I hate them like I hate the Yankees, and I am a life long Red Sox fan.

 

[bags27]

Well, former Patriot players Steve Grogan, Brandon Spikes, Richard Seymour, Adalius Thomas and Wes Welker all have been quoted saying uncomplimentary thinks about Belichick.

The difference between Auriemma and Belichick isn't so much the personnel as it is the person.

BB and Wes & Seymour are good friends now. But I take your point that not every former player speaks well of him. But, look at what Geno says about his current players: we have countless threads agonizing over what we think are his humiliating and inappropriate public statements.

Love your notion of BB as a cheat svetbird. Belichick did one thing: he video taped Jets players from a spot in the stands where, up to that year, that had bee legal. If someone doesn't like the Patriots, they account for their success not as hard work and brilliance but as cheating. Same as Tennessee fans think of Geno. Just sayin'....

 

[Golden Husky]

BB and Wes & Seymour are good friends now. But I take your point that not every former player speaks well of him. But, look at what Geno says about his current players: we have countless threads agonizing over what we think are his humiliating and inappropriate public statements.

Love your notion of BB as a cheat svetbird. Belichick did one thing: he video taped Jets players from a spot in the stands where, up to that year, that had bee legal. If someone doesn't like the Patriots, they account for their success not as hard work and brilliance but as cheating. Same as Tennessee fans think of Geno. Just sayin'....

I don't know Belichick, only his public face. I mention that because about a hundred years ago I covered a Jets-Bills game and had the opportunity to interview the star running back for Buffalo. I came away thinking, "What a great guy." Of course, that was O.J. Simpson. The point is that we rarely know these athletes and coaches as well as we think we do.

Auriemma, including the aspects of his personality some find disagreeable, provides a clearer picture of the complete man. I think there's more to like there. So while it's difficult to compare coaches from different sports, my opinion is that Geno not only is the better coach but the better person. Perhaps Belichick has invited some of his players to his home for Thanksgiving dinner but if he did, I'm guessing he made them sit at the kids' table.

I neither like nor dislike the Patriots. As a sportswriter, my rooting interests were limited to sports I didn't cover, such as women's basketball, where I can be as biased as I want. The lone exception would be thoroughbred racing where you were permitted to exercise the (Andy) Beyer (The Washington Post) Rule and "Drop to your knees and double arm-pump if your win was equal to more than 10% of your gross annual income." As you might guess, that didn't happen very often.

Getting back to the thrust of this thread, I believe a poll would find that UConn women's basketball and Geno Auriemma are more "admired" and less "hated" than New England Patriots football and Bill Belichick.

Go Huskies.

 

[mauconnfan]

Both should be greatly respected for their ability to get the best out of their players and teams, 2 of the best simply put.

Geno is arrogant, unlikeable if he's not your teams guy I am sure but also is sarcastic but very funny, his players adore him. Belichick is just an AH, a winning AH nonetheless.

 

[bags27]

From the horse's mouth:
“Bill Belichick is the only coach worth a (expletive) right now. Everybody else is just trying to catch up to him.
Geno Auriemma: Bill Belichick is 'only coach worth (expletive)' | FOX Sports

and ya know, I'm not looking for a nice guy as coach. Most great coaches are creeps: that's why they call it the Lombardi Trophy (and guess which coach has the most of those?)

 

[CL82]

The most important comparison would be if Geno was ever caught inflating a game ball.

Of course no on the Patriots, including the Belichick, was ever caught inflating a game ball, but other than that spot on.

 

[svetbird]

BB and Wes & Seymour are good friends now. But I take your point that not every former player speaks well of him. But, look at what Geno says about his current players: we have countless threads agonizing over what we think are his humiliating and inappropriate public statements.

Love your notion of BB as a cheat svetbird. Belichick did one thing: he video taped Jets players from a spot in the stands where, up to that year, that had bee legal. If someone doesn't like the Patriots, they account for their success not as hard work and brilliance but as cheating. Same as Tennessee fans think of Geno. Just sayin'....

What about their room full of tapes of other teams calls that lead to their punishment. The team also steeling play sheets from other teams dressing rooms. It is FAR more than one instance and far more than some BS, jealously, I hate them because they cheat and am angry at my Red Sox for steeling signs right now (admittedly at a lesser amount). Belichick is good at one thing, winning, rules be damned. ESPN has a great article about the wide spread cheating and how it lead to deflate gate punishment seeming a bit large.

Spygate to Deflategate: Inside what split the NFL and Patriots apart

 

[intlzncster]

What about their room full of tapes of other teams calls that lead to their punishment. The team also steeling play sheets from other teams dressing rooms. It is FAR more than one instance and far more than some BS, jealously, I hate them because they cheat and am angry at my Red Sox for steeling signs right now (admittedly at a lesser amount). Belichick is good at one thing, winning, rules be damned. ESPN has a great article about the wide spread cheating and how it lead to deflate gate punishment seeming a bit large.

Spygate to Deflategate: Inside what split the NFL and Patriots apart

You realized almost none of that stuff ever happened? It was effectively a hit piece. People couldn't explain losing, so they make up stuff.

BB is in the rest of the leagues' heads. He's got most beaten mentally before the game even starts. Coaches chasing ghosts instead of focusing on the game. Laughing all the way to the bank.

So easy to the populace these days. Given all the info out there, it's amazing.

 

[Alydar]

BB and Wes & Seymour are good friends now. But I take your point that not every former player speaks well of him. But, look at what Geno says about his current players: we have countless threads agonizing over what we think are his humiliating and inappropriate public statements.

Love your notion of BB as a cheat svetbird. Belichick did one thing: he video taped Jets players from a spot in the stands where, up to that year, that had bee legal. If someone doesn't like the Patriots, they account for their success not as hard work and brilliance but as cheating. Same as Tennessee fans think of Geno. Just sayin'....

The key phrase that exposes you as a NE apologist is "up to that year", as if that makes it less illegal. I'd wager that you also think that the illegal use of electronic devices in the dugout by the Red Sox is OK. Bottom line is that it was illegal and he cheated. Knowingly. I admire Belichick for his coaching ability but think his apparent need to flirt in the gray area of legality and to cross that line shows a lack of character. But then football to me is rife with a "just don't get caught" attitude with regards to rules. Offensive linemen are taught how to hold, defensive backs are taught how to grab receivers without being caught by an official. Is it any surprise that even coaches who are destined to be HOF inductees have no compunction against cheating?

And as a Giant fan I have no ax to grind against the Patriots or Belichick. Like Geno vs the LV's, the Giants are undefeated in championship games against NE and Bill was a big part of the Giants' success in the late 80's.

 

[bags27]

Well, it looks like this thread will be a litmus test on the greatest coach ever in the NFL. . Everyone has their opinion, to be sure, but wondering about the initial (OP) post that led us to questions pertaining to our first love. Is Geno "hated" because he is so good?

I've seen posts on other bulletin boards recently acknowledging his genius and saying that everyone just will have to wait until he retires (I've seen ditto about Belichick elsewhere also and this is what huskyd says King has discovered, too). Are we in a period where people are starting just to acknowledge greatness but taking solace in Geno's age and likely retirement in the intermediate term?

 

[SVCBeercats]

In this week's Sports Illustrated, Peter King leads off an issue largely devoted to the NFL and mostly to the New England Patriots. King identifies the Pats as the most “hated” team in its sport due to its great success and dominance,

As a source of the hate for the Patriots, Peter King did not mention the Patriots' dishonesty, cheating, artifice, cozenage, crookedness, deception, dissimulation, double-dealing, dupery, duplicity, fakery, falseness, falsity, fraudulentness, hypocrisy, insincerity, two-facedness; beguilement, furtiveness, guile, indirection, insidiousness, oiliness, perfidy, slickness, slipperiness, treacherousness, trickery, underhandedness, unscrupulousness, wiliness; equivocation, and prevarication?

 

[bags27]

I know this is supposed to be funny. Of course, we don't mention that UConn "stole" Maya from Tennessee. Same myth-making.

• Okay, what team, far and away, leads the NFL in most number of drug/steroid suspensions? Seattle, by more than a standard deviation
• What team, far and away, leads the NFL in most fines for misbehavior of individuals and of the team? Pittsburgh
• What 2 teams cheated their superbowl wins by faking that they were under the salary cap during those years, only to be discovered afterwards to be in flagrant violation but of course, unlike (say) the Tour de France, they don't vacate championships? San Francisco and Denver.

Offensive linemen and defensive backs are taught to hold--and to get away with it. The only team whose defensive backs held receivers more blatantly in a superbowl than the 2001 Patriots did to St. Louis was what this year's Falcons did to the Patriots. Rewatch the game: they close-lined Amendola and Edelman every time they went over the middle--there were 5 or 6 holding calls, but the Falcons thought that was an acceptable price to pay for the 15-20 other times they weren't caught.

In basketball, refs now catch you when you use your thumb to hook your opponents shorts (can't go up for a jump shot) or step on his foot to prevent a rebound. But it used to be fun doing that when we were kids. And if you don't hook other players's arms on rebounds, you're not doing your job.

It's what we do. Love spitballs. stealing signs, etc. These are games, and they're not "life" unless by "cheating" someone gets physically hurt (and then it's no longer just a game). Enjoy the games, celebrate transcendent excellence (like the Huskies and Patriots).

 

[SVCBeercats]

I know this is supposed to be funny. BUT ...

Really!

 

[intlzncster]

I know this is supposed to be funny. Of course, we don't mention that UConn "stole" Maya from Tennessee. Same myth-making.

• Okay, what team, far and away, leads the NFL in most number of drug/steroid suspensions? Seattle, by more than a standard deviation
• What team, far and away, leads the NFL in most fines for misbehavior of individuals and of the team? Pittsburgh
• What 2 teams cheated their superbowl wins by faking that they were under the salary cap during those years, only to be discovered afterwards to be in flagrant violation but of course, unlike (say) the Tour de France, they don't vacate championships? San Francisco and Denver.

Offensive linemen and defensive backs are taught to hold--and to get away with it. The only team whose defensive backs held receivers more blatantly in a superbowl than the 2001 Patriots did to St. Louis was what this year's Falcons did to the Patriots. Rewatch the game: they close-lined Amendola and Edelman every time they went over the middle--there were 5 or 6 holding calls, but the Falcons thought that was an acceptable price to pay for the 15-20 other times they weren't caught.

In basketball, refs now catch you when you use your thumb to hook your opponents shorts (can't go up for a jump shot) or step on his foot to prevent a rebound. But it used to be fun doing that when we were kids. And if you don't hook other players's arms on rebounds, you're not doing your job.

It's what we do. Love spitballs. stealing signs, etc. These are games, and they're not "life" unless by "cheating" someone gets physically hurt (and then it's no longer just a game). Enjoy the games, celebrate transcendent excellence (like the Huskies and Patriots).

Pretty much this. You could have added stuff from other teams like pumping in crowd noise, deliberately inflating and heating game balls, etc etc. It's endless.

 

[SVCBeercats]

Pretty much this. You could have added stuff from other teams like pumping in crowd noise, deliberately inflating and heating game balls, etc etc. It's endless.

If it is a Boston based team, it cheats. Boston Red Sox Used Apple Watches to Steal Signs Against Yankees