Before Brittney: Emily Nkosi talks about Griner and life since leaving Baylor after coming out

[DishNSwish]

While former Baylor star center Brittney Griner’s “official” coming out made the rounds in the media last week, hailed as groundbreaking in some quarters and ho-hum in others, Emily Nkosi (née Niemann), a star on Baylor’s 2005 national championship team and a member of that year’s Final Four All-tournament squad, paid rapt attention from afar.

http://j.mp/XRXsUo

 

[speedoo]

I have a lot more respect for Emily than I do for Griner. And I have zero respect for Mulkey and Starr.

 

[pppggg]

First it should be no surprise to anyone that GB is gay. Personally, I don't care.

However the reality is that some partents don't want their children exposed to that culture for a lot of reason, including moral and religious one. That's their choice.

The reality is that some girls don't want to be exposed to that culture for a lot of reason.

Having said that, Baylor and Mulkey were intectually dishonest and shoud have told recruits/parents. It will bite them in the rear in getting future players.

 

[ctbbfn]

First it should be no surprise to anyone that GB is gay. Personally, I don't care.

However the reality is that some partents don't want their children exposed to that culture for a lot of reason, including moral and religious one. That's their choice.

The reality is that some girls don't want to be exposed to that culture for a lot of reason.

Having said that, Baylor and Mulkey were intectually dishonest and shoud have told recruits/parents. It will bite them in the rear in getting future players.

"Exposed to that culture" meaning have a teammate who is gay?
Players who are gay but not publicly out are intellectually dishonest?
Please tell me I am misconstruing what you are saying.

 

[katiecrum1992]

Great article! I came out recently as well(to a small extent)and it's made a difference.

 

[easttexastrash]

Yes, we would hate for our kids to be exposed to "that culture" where you may have to deal with "the gays." It's not like they are going to be forced to go to gay bars.

Shocker: Baylor is a private, Baptist school.

So what is it that Mulkey was supposed to tell parents and recruits? Are you saying that they should have said "BTW, we have lesbians on the team"?

 

[jplotinus]

Anyone recall a 2011 ESPN article on the issue?

Excerpt:

"Auriemma says he still doesn't know why Pat Summitt, Tennessee's legendary coach, nixed their annual showdown in 2007. But he's heard the rumor that has circulated since: UConn used antigay recruiting tactics against the Lady Vol program. "If someone is saying that's the reason," Auriemma says, "they're more out of their minds than I think they are." Summitt declined to be interviewed for this story"

Link:

http://m.espn.go.com/ncw/story?storyId=6060641&src=desktop

Equally interesting in the article is discussion of use of code words like "family values" and how that sort of thing is used by some programs in recruiting. ISU mentioned in particular.

Lots of issues presented here.

 

[easttexastrash]

Anyone recall a 2011 ESPN article on the issue?

Excerpt:

"Auriemma says he still doesn't know why Pat Summitt, Tennessee's legendary coach, nixed their annual showdown in 2007. But he's heard the rumor that has circulated since: UConn used antigay recruiting tactics against the Lady Vol program. "If someone is saying that's the reason," Auriemma says, "they're more out of their minds than I think they are." Summitt declined to be interviewed for this story"

Link:

http://m.espn.go.com/ncw/story?storyId=6060641&src=desktop

Equally interesting in the article is discussion of use of code words like "family values" and how that sort of thing is used by some programs in recruiting. ISU mentioned in particular.

Lots of issues presented here.

Thanks for posting. I had never seen this article.

As a child I always dreamed of coaching but at some point I realized that having a partner at games supporting me would never fly with high school parents so I put that dream to rest. And you cannot ask a partner to pretend not to be your partner without damaging your relationship.

This topic makes me ill to my stomach. It is hard to believe that even today this is an issue.

How many qualified coaches have not been hired due to their sexuality? How many people who would have been great coaches chosen not to pursue a coaching career to avoid a life of needing to live in the closet?

 

[DaddyChoc]

anybody else in the closet... I "need" to know

 

[Sargassoc]

How many qualified coaches have not been hired due to their sexuality? How many people who would have been great coaches chosen not to pursue a coaching career to avoid a life of needing to live in the closet?

Several years ago, I spent the day with a Div. 1 head coach and her partner, introduced by mutual friends. She was freaked out when I mentioned the Boneyard and made me promise, more than once, not to say anything about her anywhere online. (I'm assuming she meant nothing that could be used to identify her, which is why I'm weighing in now.)

Her behavior reminded me of the fear of the late 70s, when gay bashing was more of a national pastime than in, thankfully, it is today (Anita Bryant, anyone?). She was suspicious of me once I said I spent time here; she was frantic and just plain paranoid. I did my best to tell her it that was OK, and that I wouldn't out her, but I always thought that she was not convinced.

Honestly, her behavior and fear were palpable and striking to me. We can say, all we want, that people wouldn't/don't care, but, especially in college athletics -- except, at my alma mater, Smith College -- at the higher/highest levels, that still isn't the case. I have my own theories about why this is so, but I'll leave my socio-political observations to another time.

Believe me, though-- she was scared, paranoid, and upset. (And believe me, too, that is no way way to feel you have to live.)

 

[jplotinus]

Perhaps an equivalent to "Texas Western" and Bobby Joe Hill will have to unfold in WCBB. This would require a lesbian head coach and 5 out-of-closet starters. The opponent would need to be a "family values" team like Iowa State. And, of course the outcome would need to be as it was in that quintessential game in 1966.

On a more serious note, it might help if we were to be a bit more specific and precise in naming WHAT we are talking about. Human sexuality and gender characteristics are each matters of knowledge-based science, as well as social constructs informed by beliefs, mores, taboos and all sorts of other baggage.

Individual human beings who are female all have some degree of male characteristics as a matter of their genes. Likewise male individuals all have some genetic makeup consistent with female structure. Infinite variation exists between and among individual human beings concerning each and every human being's gender characteristics.

So far as I know, it is not yet known whether there is any such thing as a "gay" gene or whether there is a brain related mechanism or structure of some kind that determines sexual orientation. I gather research is being done on such matters. Perhaps posters can address this "WHAT?" aspect in subsequent posts. Doing so might help keep the discussion more focused and less emotionally wrenching.

Adding a bit of irony here, one of the co-authors of a recent study attributing homosexuality to epi-genetics is from UT-Knoxville :-0

http://www.nimbios.org/press/FS_homosexuality

 

[pppggg]

"Exposed to that culture" meaning have a teammate who is gay?
Players who are gay but not publicly out are intellectually dishonest?
Please tell me I am misconstruing what you are saying.

I clearly said mulkey and baylor were intectually dishonest. Don't ask don't tell is intectually dishonest.

And like it or not some people would perfer that their children not be exposed to a gay situation. That is a reality and knowing that situation may effect a recuits choice of schools. What will mulkey say the next time a parent or player asks the question?

 

[alexrgct]

I imagine what she will say is that it's none of her business whether players on her team are gay and that her job is to win basketball games, not monitor her players' sex lives. As politely as possible, of course...

 

[jplotinus]

I clearly said mulkey and baylor were intectually dishonest. Don't ask don't tell is intectually dishonest.

And like it or not some people would perfer that their children not be exposed to a gay situation. That is a reality and knowing that situation may effect a recuits choice of schools. What will mulkey say the next time a parent or player asks the question?

Dear pppggg:

Your quoted post is troubling as a whole. This part more than the rest:

"And like it or not some people would perfer that their children not be exposed to a gay situation."

What to make of that? :-/

One implication of that part of your post is that programs have to acquiesce in people's homophobia. I don't think that should be the case at all. One thing that a coach or recruiter might remind such people of is that it is contrary to the equal opportunity requirement applicable in almost all college policy manuals (and outright illegality in some states) to countenance that sort of discrimination, let alone give in to it or pander to it.

I don't think a recruit, no matter how skilled she might be, would be deemed a good fit at UCONN if she were under the influence, directly or through her parents/guardians, of homophobia.

Would you?

 

[easttexastrash]

Dear pppggg:

Your quoted post is troubling as a whole. This part more than the rest:

"And like it or not some people would perfer that their children not be exposed to a gay situation."

What to make of that? :-/

One implication of that part of your post is that programs have to acquiesce in people's homophobia. I don't think that should be the case at all. One thing that a coach or recruiter might remind such people of is that it is contrary to the equal opportunity requirement applicable in almost all college policy manuals (and outright illegality in some states) to countenance that sort of discrimination, let alone give in to it or pander to it.

I don't think a recruit, no matter how skilled she might be, would be deemed a good fit at UCONN if she were under the influence, directly or through her parents/guardians, of homophobia.

Would you?

Well said. It is not a coach's job to "out" her players or staff. Can you imagine the legal implicatiosn of doing such, not to mention the moral implications.

I would hope that NO coach in America would want a player on his or her team if that player is homophobic, racist, etc. If I had a recruit or a parent ask me that question I would let them know right then and there that I was no longer recruiting them.

 

[pppggg]

Dear pppggg:

Your quoted post is troubling as a whole. This part more than the rest:

"And like it or not some people would perfer that their children not be exposed to a gay situation."

What to make of that? :-/

One implication of that part of your post is that programs have to acquiesce in people's homophobia. I don't think that should be the case at all. One thing that a coach or recruiter might remind such people of is that it is contrary to the equal opportunity requirement applicable in almost all college policy manuals (and outright illegality in some states) to countenance that sort of discrimination, let alone give in to it or pander to it.

I don't think a recruit, no matter how skilled she might be, would be deemed a good fit at UCONN if she were under the influence, directly or through her parents/guardians, of homophobia.

Would you?

Join the real world. Like it or not some people are unconforable with the gay agenda. Also do some reseach om WBB recuiting. It is an issue that parents and players do ask about. By not being honest, coaches run the risk of hurting gay and straight players.

 

[jplotinus]

Join the real world. Like it or not some people are unconforable with the gay agenda. Also do some reseach om WBB recuiting. It is an issue that parents and players do ask about. By not being honest, coaches run the risk of hurting gay and straight players.

Pppggg

One last comment might be beneficial before moving on. I am in the real world. In that world, homophobia violates collegiate norms of social conduct. Also in that world, contradiction is taken note of. In the real world, one cannot make an accusation of dishonesty on one hand, when it seems convenient to do so, and then sugarcoat homophobia by referring to that phobia as being "uncomforted with the gay agenda" on the other.

No, Pppggg, your phraseology is disengenuous at best and cannot go unchallenged. You are defending homophobia as though doing so entitles you to a high ground position. You are defending unethical conduct, irrespective of whether it has supporters of one kind or another.

There is no place for homophobia in an equality-based society.

 

[sarals24]

I think homosexuality in WCBB is one of the worst-kept secrets in the world. And I agree with Emily that I wish more players and coaches were out and proud, because they could really be an inspiring role model to a young woman struggling with her sexuality.

 

[DobbsRover2]

Join the real world. Like it or not some people are unconforable with the gay agenda. Also do some reseach om WBB recuiting. It is an issue that parents and players do ask about. By not being honest, coaches run the risk of hurting gay and straight players.

I hope you can show us the research that you have encountered and are telling jplot to dig up. I have seen lots of innuendos, rumors, and stories of coverups by schools that had an employee make a controversial remark, but I have never seen any studies done about which schools use the gay-bashing technique and how many schools claim to be the victims of such attacks.

There's no doubt that there are some parents and players who may be uncomfortable with all those "gay-agenda" people, but are there any numbers that show them to be a huge population in a sport where the mention of one of its top players being gay seems to have been met with shrugs and yawns and a spate of articles in the NY Times and elsewhere asking when any active male player will join the rush out the closet door?

Just saying, the charges and counter-charges about the use of gay labels as scare tactics by WCBB programs could at this point be approaching a relic of the past as coaches know that they risk being exposed and fired for such tactics and the fact that most of women's basketball world doesn't seem to get worked up at the thought of gay players in the showers anymore. Will there still be some "parents who care" in the future. Sure, some. Is it a huge factor nowadays? Doubt it, though urban legends live on. Hell, if Baylor is being disparagingly cited as the new "lesbian school" in the recruiting wars, you know BYU and Liberty can't be far behind. There are risks in recruiting any player, and I have no idea whether Kim Mulkey was "honest" with Brittney Griner back around 2007, but the experience of going to Baylor does not seem to have put any hurt on her (other than the fact that if she came to UConn she would have won 4 NCs). And I think most straight players likewise are not really being hurt by not having the coach alert them that they have one or more gay teammates. Griner's teammates seemed to care more that they were playing with a great player and got an NC to boot.

 

[pppggg]

I hope you can show us the research that you have encountered and are telling jplot to dig up. I have seen lots of innuendos, rumors, and stories of coverups by schools that had an employee make a controversial remark, but I have never seen any studies done about which schools use the gay-bashing technique and how many schools claim to be the victims of such attacks.

There's no doubt that there are some parents and players who may be uncomfortable with all those "gay-agenda" people, but are there any numbers that show them to be a huge population in a sport where the mention of one of its top players being gay seems to have been met with shrugs and yawns and a spate of articles in the NY Times and elsewhere asking when any active male player will join the rush out the closet door?

Just saying, the charges and counter-charges about the use of gay labels as scare tactics by WCBB programs could at this point be a approaching a relic of the past as coaches know that they risk being exposed and fired for such tactics and the fact that most of women's basketball world doesn't seem to get worked up at the thought of gay players in the showers anymore. Will there still be some "parents who care" in the future. Sure, some. Is it a huge factor nowadays? Doubt it, though urban legends live on. Hell, if Baylor is being disparagingly cited as the new "lesbian school" in the recruiting wars, you know BYU and Liberty can't be far behind. There are risks in recruiting any player, and I have no idea whether Kim Mulkey was "honest" with Brittney Griner back around 2007, but the experience of going to Baylor does not seem to have put any hurt on her (other than the fact that if she came to UConn she would have won 4 NCs). And I think most straight players likewise are not really being hurt by not having the coach alert them that they have one or more gay teammates. Griner's teammates seemed to care more that they were playing with a great player and got an NC to boot.

The popular narative in the media is that the counrty is overwelmingly in favar of things like gay marrige. Nothing could be further from the truth. Dispite the polls showing that people agree with gay marrrige, everytime it has been vored on by the citizens, the initative has gone down 30 times. The only places it has been enacted is when the legistators, most likely against the will of the people, voted it in as law in, I think, 17 states. Clearly dispite the narative, there is a problem.

The RI senate will be voting shortly on gay marriage. Polls show the people are heavely in favor of it. If that's the case, why not let the people vote on the subject and remove the controversy of the vote.? The answer , of course is that the Democrats lead by an openly gay Speaker of the House and an openly gay Senate President (talk abiut conflict of interest) know exactly what will happen if the people vote.

I note that liberals have successfully put through "Don't ask, Don't tell" in the military. My son is on this fifth tour to the sandbox and I can tell you that despite what the media protrays, the troops are overwelmingly against it. Yet, I note that nobody at least on the boneyard has a problem with Mulkey's policy of Don't Ask, Don't Tell. Just why is that? Could it be that having openly gay players on the team would affect her recuriting?

Brittney seams relieved at the draft when she said she had "freedom". Nobody seams bothered by what she had to endure for 4 years, covering up her felling.

Bottom line Mulkey and Baylor were dishonst and IMO it effected Brittney and it will affect the program in the future.

Bottom line everyone is entitled to their own opinion on the subject and some parents/kids for what ever reason choose not to be exposed to the problem. That's there right, isn't?

Bottom line based on 30 states rejecting gay marrige, there is a problem with America's acceptance of the Gay agenda. Like it or not, you can't deny it exsists.

 

[Sargassoc]

. . . there is a problem with America's acceptance of the Gay agenda. Like it or not, you can't deny it exsists.

What's on that agenda? Approve minutes? Treasurer's report? What?

 

[easttexastrash]

Bottom line, a coach does not have a right or obligation to discuss the sexuality of her players and coaches with recruits and their parents. Their private lives are not at liberty to be discussed and they are entitled to their privacy.

I hope that Mulkey continues to take the same stance in the future. The estimate is that 10% of the American population is gay. Based on a team headcount of roughly 15 players, one head coach and three assistants, a team manager, there are likely 2 gay people associated with each program. So if you think you are going to be able to send little Buffy off to school and protect her from the big, bad, gay people, you are exhibiting profound ignorance.

And for the record, we are talking about gay people, not gay marriage. Just because some people don't support gay marriage doesn't mean that they are not supportive of gay rights, in general. I would think that the number of people who would not go to a program because there is a gay player or coach are very few and far between.

 

[easttexastrash]

What's on that agenda? Approve minutes? Treasurer's report? What?

LOL...

Here is my gay "Agenda"

• Treat people with respect
• Have others treat me with respect
• Be a good son, brother, partner and friend
• Be a good owner to my pets (Nitro and Sadie)
• Make an honest living
• Be a good American

Should I go on? My "agenda" is no different than that of anyone else. The use of the phrase "Gay Agenda" is insulting, as if my goal in life is to turn everyone gay. What rubbish!!!

Now, I will say something that I have never said here, but maybe a good time to lock this thread...

 

[Icebear]

I hope that Mulkey continues to take the same stance in the future. The estimate is that 10% of the American population is gay.

Present statistical analysis has dropped that old 10% figure to approximately 5% or slightly below. It is, actually, very hard to identify a population that is gay because sexuality exists across a spectrum with various bisexualities in the middle. Problem is that those middle range tend to be abused by others statistically for their own political ends. Conservatives frequently point those in the middle as proof the sexual orientation is a choice. Many gay organizations want to label any bisexuals currently in same sex relationships as gay thereby increasing the numbers. In the end anyone wanting to cite statistics is taking a great risk.

 

[Geno-ista]

The popular narative in the media is that the counrty is overwelmingly in favar of things like gay marrige. Nothing could be further from the truth. Dispite the polls showing that people agree with gay marrrige, everytime it has been vored on by the citizens, the initative has gone down 30 times. The only places it has been enacted is when the legistators, most likely against the will of the people, voted it in as law in, I think, 17 states. Clearly dispite the narative, there is a problem.

The RI senate will be voting shortly on gay marriage. Polls show the people are heavely in favor of it. If that's the case, why not let the people vote on the subject and remove the controversy of the vote.? The answer , of course is that the Democrats lead by an openly gay Speaker of the House and an openly gay Senate President (talk abiut conflict of interest) know exactly what will happen if the people vote.

I note that liberals have successfully put through "Don't ask, Don't tell" in the military. My son is on this fifth tour to the sandbox and I can tell you that despite what the media protrays, the troops are overwelmingly against it. Yet, I note that nobody at least on the boneyard has a problem with Mulkey's policy of Don't Ask, Don't Tell. Just why is that? Could it be that having openly gay players on the team would affect her recuriting?

Brittney seams relieved at the draft when she said she had "freedom". Nobody seams bothered by what she had to endure for 4 years, covering up her felling.

Bottom line Mulkey and Baylor were dishonst and IMO it effected Brittney and it will affect the program in the future.

Bottom line everyone is entitled to their own opinion on the subject and some parents/kids for what ever reason choose not to be exposed to the problem. That's there right, isn't?

Bottom line based on 30 states rejecting gay marrige, there is a problem with America's acceptance of the Gay agenda. Like it or not, you can't deny it exsists.

Let me ask you this- is every person that believes that gays/lesbians all should have absolutely all the same rights, etc. as any other person, human being, but is against changing the definition of marriage, as described in the bible, does that make every person that doesn't want to change the definition of that word a racist, anti-gay, and generally a bad person?