Beer

[XLCenterFan]

The beer at the XL is infinitely better than the beer at Gampel.

The beer at XL is better than any sporting event I attend. In addition to the basics at various sizes, they have Hooker, 2 Roads, City Steam, and Counter Weight (all in tall cans).

 

[sledog]

In cleaning out my survival silo, I found a 6-pak of ale that must be at least 5 (probly 10) yrs old. Do you connoissurs think it's 'safe' to drink (ie, w/o a mule kick or worse), or is it destined for the soap suds pile.

 

[superjohn]

In cleaning out my survival silo, I found a 6-pak of ale that must be at least 5 (probly 10) yrs old. Do you connoissurs think it's 'safe' to drink (ie, w/o a mule kick or worse), or is it destined for the soap suds pile.

I just had some beers recently that had to be 5 years old and they were fine.

 

[8893]

In cleaning out my survival silo, I found a 6-pak of ale that must be at least 5 (probly 10) yrs old. Do you connoissurs think it's 'safe' to drink (ie, w/o a mule kick or worse), or is it destined for the soap suds pile.

What beer is it? Where was it stored?

I've had beers hold up for more than 20 years if not exposed to light or temperature extremes. If it was hoppy beer, the hops help act as a preservative; but they mellow over time and the beer will likely taste maltier/sweeter as a result.

 

[Fishy]

In cleaning out my survival silo, I found a 6-pak of ale that must be at least 5 (probly 10) yrs old. Do you connoissurs think it's 'safe' to drink (ie, w/o a mule kick or worse), or is it destined for the soap suds pile.

Nothing dangerous can happen inside of a beer can, but nothing good will happen either.

It will likely just taste off.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Nothing dangerous can happen inside of a beer can, but nothing good will happen either.

It will likely just taste off.

I dunno, my company did one of those beer making things (Hopsters) two years ago, they delivered the beers to our offices and a bunch of us took between a week and 3 months to bring them home. No preservatives so they were supposed to have been kept cold. Mine were home within 10 days, then kept medium cold in garage. The first few were ok, but after about 3 weeks and 3 spit-take sips I emptied more beers than any non-keg dumping in my lifetime.
Very possible the beer you make there sucks, but bad beer became putrid.

 

[sledog]

What beer is it? Where was it stored?

I've had beers hold up for more than 20 years if not exposed to light or temperature extremes. If it was hoppy beer, the hops help act as a preservative; but they mellow over time and the beer will likely taste maltier/sweeter as a result.

Mystic River / Cottrell bottles, in basement - cool / dark.

I opend a similar bottle some years ago that was storesd in a fridge. It slowly foamed over for 30 minutes. Seemed like alcohol content was higher.

 

[8893]

Mystic River / Cottrell bottles, in basement - cool / dark.

I opend a similar bottle some years ago that was storesd in a fridge. It slowly foamed over for 30 minutes. Seemed like alcohol content was higher.

Yeah I don't expect that one would be worth drinking any more. It was decent in its day but that day has long passed.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Eh, why does every craft brewery have to aspire to national distribution? It definitely isn't about getting bought out by the giant breweries anymore & there is now lots of room for local beers to find a niche. The Alchemist & Heady is a bit more than that and certainly profited early from scarcity, but I don't know that they need to be on shelves even all across NE. I'd rather its harder to get and that I have a few on ski trips or occasional cans make their way to MA.
For example, Trillium is building multiple brew houses, buying farms in CT = making quite a bit of $ with no distribution. I think the couples that own the Alchemist and Trillium are doing quite well for themselves and I like the beer vibe (honest part of what we pay for) as smaller, actual & perceived quality implications of harder to get.

They don't. @8893 is right, my place (soon to be sold next week) is about 35-40 minutes from Lawson's and an hour from Waterbury (Alchemist original location) and maybe another 15 to the new Alchemist spot in Stowe. So I watched this pretty closely, and lived it.

So flashback 5-6 years or so, Treehouse was sold on a farm in the boonies of Monson, MA. Huge lines for maybe 10 cans a person. Trillium was only Fort Point, no tasting, just take out cans and growlers. There was no Foam. No Upper Pass. No Proclamation. No Tilted Barn. No Foley Brothers. And so on. So demand for the Lawson's Sunshine beers was massive and same for Heady and Focal. People followed the Alchemist truck from stop to stop so they could but one 4 pack.

Alchemist saw that model and built a brewery in Stowe. It has a short tasting line and is otherwise just for pickup of cans. Incredible mistake, especially for a place that started as a brew pub. Prohibition Pig, on the old Alchemist site, is a better visit.

Trillium expanded to Canton, then expanded Fort Point, and eventually Fenway. Initially same model, grab cans. But they found the on site drinking was popular and expanded that, even though the facility in Canton kind of sucks for it. Now they are building a new Canton brewery with a restaurant on site.

Treehouse built a massive brewery in Charlton, in the boonies, if less so than Monson. Expected mostly can pick up. At first the taps were always closed. They were wrong, and have now had to reinvent a multimillion dollar brewery twice. Massive indoor and outdoor drinking space now, separated from can pick up. It's really a stunning brewery. I can't imagine there is a nicer one anywhere.

Lawson's partnered with Two Roads to brew Sip and SS. That allowed Lawson's to expand late and they saw what mistakes the others made and built a very nice, small brewery in Waitsfield, with plenty of on site consumption space. Separate area for can pickup, which can open earlier. Smartly done.

But nobody is driving from Maryland and PA and NJ to northern Vermont to get Heady Topper, Sip or Double Sunshine anymore. Not with Other Half, Singlecut, Carton and dozens of breweries making DIPAs and IPAs that are arguably better, and even Trillium and Treehouse are much closer. The on site can volume they expected isn't there anymore, so they need to distribute to use the capacity they built. So far Trillium and Treehouse have avoided that.

 

[Dogdeacon]

They don't. @8893 is right, my place (soon to be sold next week) is about 35-40 minutes from Lawson's and an hour from Waterbury (Alchemist original location) and maybe another 15 to the new Alchemist spot in Stowe. So I watched this pretty closely, and lived it.

So flashback 5-6 years or so, Treehouse was sold on a farm in the boonies of Monson, MA. Huge lines for maybe 10 cans a person. Trillium was only Fort Point, no tasting, just take out cans and growlers. There was no Foam. No Upper Pass. No Proclamation. No Tilted Barn. No Foley Brothers. And so on. So demand for the Lawson's Sunshine beers was massive and same for Heady and Focal. People followed the Alchemist truck from stop to stop so they could but one 4 pack.

Alchemist saw that model and built a brewery in Stowe. It has a short tasting line and is otherwise just for pickup of cans. Incredible mistake, especially for a place that started as a brew pub. Prohibition Pig, on the old Alchemist site, is a better visit.

Trillium expanded to Canton, then expanded Fort Point, and eventually Fenway. Initially same model, grab cans. But they found the on site drinking was popular and expanded that, even though the facility in Canton kind of sucks for it. Now they are building a new Canton brewery with a restaurant on site.

Treehouse built a massive brewery in Charlton, in the boonies, if less so than Monson. Expected mostly can pick up. At first the taps were always closed. They were wrong, and have now had to reinvent a multimillion dollar brewery twice. Massive indoor and outdoor drinking space now, separated from can pick up. It's really a stunning brewery. I can't imagine there is a nicer one anywhere.

Lawson's partnered with Two Roads to brew Sip and SS. That allowed Lawson's to expand late and they saw what mistakes the others made and built a very nice, small brewery in Waitsfield, with plenty of on site consumption space. Separate area for can pickup, which can open earlier. Smartly done.

But nobody is driving from Maryland and PA and NJ to northern Vermont to get Heady Topper, Sip or Double Sunshine anymore. Not with Other Half, Singlecut, Carton and dozens of breweries making DIPAs and IPAs that are arguably better, and even Trillium and Treehouse are much closer. The on site can volume they expected isn't there anymore, so they need to distribute to use the capacity they built. So far Trillium and Treehouse have avoided that.

Nice summary. I agree 100% with your assessments. Trillium Canton indeed sucks, in contrast the Boston restaurant is too fancy - screams over priced. At least in Canton there is the illusion that your money is going solely to make great beer. The Greenway is a nice middle, haven't been to Fenway.
Castle Island's pub in Norwood is a nice relaxed hang and their beers are solid middle of road.

I CANNOT wait to visit Treehouse as I think the Lawson's brewery is a gorgeous monument to craft beer money. A good friend has a house in Waitsfield & MA so he's always overstocked, trying to help him drink down the reserves to merit a two case boondoggle out to Charlton.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Nice summary. I agree 100% with your assessments. Trillium Canton indeed sucks, in contrast the Boston restaurant is too fancy - screams over priced. At least in Canton there is the illusion that your money is going solely to make great beer. The Greenway is a nice middle, haven't been to Fenway.
Castle Island's pub in Norwood is a nice relaxed hang and their beers are solid middle of road.

I CANNOT wait to visit Treehouse as I think the Lawson's brewery is a gorgeous monument to craft beer money. A good friend has a house in Waitsfield & MA so he's always overstocked, trying to help him drink down the reserves to merit a two case boondoggle out to Charlton.

Lawson's is like a cozy pub. In the fall they have the fireplace going, in summer the outside patios and cornhole. It's the Cheers of breweries. Ideal as a local spot to hang out.

Treehouse is just staggering. Utterly beautiful setting, and holds probably 10-20X the people, massive tiered outdoor patio areas, huge covered patios with live music. This is my photo from September 2019. Pickup is great there, but you miss the experience.

 

[superjohn]

They don't. @8893 is right, my place (soon to be sold next week) is about 35-40 minutes from Lawson's and an hour from Waterbury (Alchemist original location) and maybe another 15 to the new Alchemist spot in Stowe. So I watched this pretty closely, and lived it.

So flashback 5-6 years or so, Treehouse was sold on a farm in the boonies of Monson, MA. Huge lines for maybe 10 cans a person. Trillium was only Fort Point, no tasting, just take out cans and growlers. There was no Foam. No Upper Pass. No Proclamation. No Tilted Barn. No Foley Brothers. And so on. So demand for the Lawson's Sunshine beers was massive and same for Heady and Focal. People followed the Alchemist truck from stop to stop so they could but one 4 pack.

Alchemist saw that model and built a brewery in Stowe. It has a short tasting line and is otherwise just for pickup of cans. Incredible mistake, especially for a place that started as a brew pub. Prohibition Pig, on the old Alchemist site, is a better visit.

Trillium expanded to Canton, then expanded Fort Point, and eventually Fenway. Initially same model, grab cans. But they found the on site drinking was popular and expanded that, even though the facility in Canton kind of sucks for it. Now they are building a new Canton brewery with a restaurant on site.

Treehouse built a massive brewery in Charlton, in the boonies, if less so than Monson. Expected mostly can pick up. At first the taps were always closed. They were wrong, and have now had to reinvent a multimillion dollar brewery twice. Massive indoor and outdoor drinking space now, separated from can pick up. It's really a stunning brewery. I can't imagine there is a nicer one anywhere.

Lawson's partnered with Two Roads to brew Sip and SS. That allowed Lawson's to expand late and they saw what mistakes the others made and built a very nice, small brewery in Waitsfield, with plenty of on site consumption space. Separate area for can pickup, which can open earlier. Smartly done.

But nobody is driving from Maryland and PA and NJ to northern Vermont to get Heady Topper, Sip or Double Sunshine anymore. Not with Other Half, Singlecut, Carton and dozens of breweries making DIPAs and IPAs that are arguably better, and even Trillium and Treehouse are much closer. The on site can volume they expected isn't there anymore, so they need to distribute to use the capacity they built. So far Trillium and Treehouse have avoided that.

I'll never understand the people who drive well over an hour/hours to wait in line and buy 4 packs to bring home to drink on the couch. The whole point of these places is to make a day or weekend out of it hanging out doing flights, jumping from one place to the next.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I'll never understand the people who drive well over an hour/hours to wait in line and buy 4 packs to bring home to drink on the couch. The whole point of these places is to make a day or weekend out of it hanging out doing flights, jumping from one place to the next.

Well you can't really beat Waterbury Vermont then for that. No breweries there except Pro Pig, but the bars have all kinds of stuff on tap.

 

[Dogdeacon]

I'll never understand the people who drive well over an hour/hours to wait in line and buy 4 packs to bring home to drink on the couch. The whole point of these places is to make a day or weekend out of it hanging out doing flights, jumping from one place to the next.

Driving 3-4 hours to VT for no other reason is overkill for me, but when you combine skiing and restaurants it makes what was already a fun trip even better.
Pretty much why I've never been to Treehouse: Wait it is an hour away?
There is nothing else around there?
You have to wait how long in line?
But these days planning a 2-3hr trip to sit in a car line is at least an outing of some sort and feels like something different. Increasingly likely to occur as the weather is colder & options diminish.

 

[8893]

Well you can't really beat Waterbury Vermont then for that. No breweries there except Pro Pig, but the bars have all kinds of stuff on tap.

^This x100.

That one-block area is the most efficient quality beer and food scene on the planet imo. Between Pro Pig, Reservoir and my favorite, Blackback Pub, you can always find at least a half dozen or more different Hill Farmstead beers alone, along with the best selections from Lawson's, Alchemist, Upper Pass and a dozen or more other brewers at that level. Plus the Craft Beer Cellar for beers to bring home, and the Wine Vault next door for an excellent hard cider selection.

If you get bored you can drive five miles to Waitsfield for Lawson's and another incredible selection of beer, food (and sneaky good margaritas) at Mad Taco.

 

[superjohn]

Driving 3-4 hours to VT for no other reason is overkill for me, but when you combine skiing and restaurants it makes what was already a fun trip even better.
Pretty much why I've never been to Treehouse: Wait it is an hour away?
There is nothing else around there?
You have to wait how long in line?
But these days planning a 2-3hr trip to sit in a car line is at least an outing of some sort and feels like something different. Increasingly likely to occur as the weather is colder & options diminish.

What my friends do is go to that good BBQ place up there and then go to Treehouse. It's all pickup only now but non-Covid I'm sure you could have a fun day there. It's a beer campus, do a bunch of tasting.

I had fun driving around CT. going to breweries last month, there's some good places.

 

[8893]

What my friends do is go to that good BBQ place up there

B.T.'s Smokehouse in Sturbridge? Great place.

 

[superjohn]

B.T.'s Smokehouse in Sturbridge? Great place.

Yes

 

[HooperScooper]

What my friends do is go to that good BBQ place up there and then go to Treehouse. It's all pickup only now but non-Covid I'm sure you could have a fun day there. It's a beer campus, do a bunch of tasting.

I had fun driving around CT. going to breweries last month, there's some good places.

Tell your friends that they're doing it backwards. They need to go to Tree House first and then go to B.T.'s Smokehouse and drink their beer while hanging out and eating great BBQ. They allow that there. It's funny because every time I've been there at least half the people are drinking Tree House beers.

 

[Waquoit]

It's funny because every time I've been there at least half the people are drinking Tree House beers.

I heard about the B.T.'s while standing in line at the old Monson place. From two guys who drove in from Saratoga.

 

[Dove]

Alchemist now in CT packies.

 

[8893]

Alchemist now in CT packies.

@XLCenterFan will never drink it again in his life.

 

[XLCenterFan]

@XLCenterFan will never drink it again in his life.

If it’s to help the brewery make it through covid, I’m ok with it. I just hope it’s not permanent and part of the sell out/cash grab/dilute the product movement. Kimmich said he’d never give in to that. I can post the link if you’d like his quote. I loved him and the beer for that. Otherwise you’re right - I’m off that.
Besides, my beer pallet has changed since I first drank those beers. I prefer more haze, more orange, and more juicy flavors now. Focal is more my taste than Heady for sure.

 

[8893]

Besides, my beer pallet has changed since I first drank those beers. I prefer more haze, more orange, and more juicy flavors now. Focal is more my taste than Heady for sure.

I hope you don't have a pallet full of beers that don't suit your palate then!

 

[HuskyHawk]

If it’s to help the brewery make it through covid, I’m ok with it. I just hope it’s not permanent and part of the sell out/cash grab/dilute the product movement. Kimmich said he’d never give in to that. I can post the link if you’d like his quote. I loved him and the beer for that. Otherwise you’re right - I’m off that.
Besides, my beer pallet has changed since I first drank those beers. I prefer more haze, more orange, and more juicy flavors now. Focal is more my taste than Heady for sure.

Might want to cut them some slack. There is no way they can sell all their capacity on site during Covid, or even after. In positive news, you can now find Heady and Focal in gas stations and stores across Vermont. That was long overdue really. I still buy it, because it is still a superbly made beer, even if I too prefer the stuff further along the "New England IPA" spectrum. These guys, HF and Lawson's started it all.