"Because I can't putt like those guys"...

[Trudy Gay]

My next door neighbor growing up played tennis. As a 16 year old girl she could beat the male tennis pro.

Did this male tennis pro she could beat have arms and legs?

 

[superjohn]

A close friend of mine named Jason is a damn good athlete but you would never know it by hanging out with him or even looking at him. He was my brother's best friend in college and he was on the Vanderbilt football team. He's about 6 feet tall and played at 185 lbs. Not jacked and has longish curly hair, if you were told he played sports you would maybe guess a surfer or skateboarder...

He's from a tiny town in Texas and was the star QB there and he was recruited to be a QB at Vandy and other schools. Jason enjoyed the social/party scene and fell out of favor with the coach early on. He stayed on the team all 4 years despite the coach hating him and he was a safety and played special teams.

He lived a block away from me for years and never owned a TV so his sports watching was over at my apartment, my brother's apartment, and the bars. We would always get stories out of him because to us it was so cool how good he was while really not coming across as a sports guy. He loved how much we loved sports.

That little school Jason was the quarterback at in Texas was pretty damn good. His best friend/running back died in a car crash his senior year. The kid was Eric Dickerson's nephew and my buddy said he would've for sure had an NFL career and he thinks he could've/would've been a superstar like his uncle. Jason also saw the gold trans am as a kid, Dickerson would drive around town in it.

One day we're at a Cubs game with Jason and his parents. His dad out of the blue says, "You know he was drafted to play baseball" pointing at his son. We respond with, "What???" We're sports obsessed, we hang out with our buddy practically every day for years and he never thought to even mention to us he was drafted by the St. Louis Cardinals out of high school.

I worked out a little lifting weights with Jason at our neighborhood gym (I was stronger than him and he didn't have much interest in lifting) but I never saw him in action playing sports other than tossing around a football until we were on a kickball team together. It's just messing around because it's kickball but you could immediately tell he's an athlete and different than everyone else by the way he moves. He was unbelievably fast, 4.3 speed. Another time walking to the bar I run up to an outdoor hoop in someone's driveway jump and I'm lucky if I got anywhere near halfway up the net. He runs up in jeans and boots and grabs the rim. Some people are just born different and you would never know it.

 

[QDOG5]

Those guys on tour are exceptional at everything. While I agree that short game is of upmost importance at the highest level, the guys who win aren’t missing many shots, if at all…and if they do, they recover. So many good players if you tried to make it, but there is a difference. And to most, it seems razor thin, and it is to gain status in certain places…but in reality on PGA Tour, it is a long ways off. I know some who I think could compete out there, don’t get me wrong, but timing is also a huge factor, gotta get hot at the right time. It’s unfortunate

I’m a +4 and I don’t even sniff it lol

Since you're a plus 4 do you have to wear plus fours on the course? BTW, I just drafted for you the next Boneyard open.

 

[Edward Sargent]

Always been a fairly good putter until about 6 months ago which coincided with worsening of my cataracts. Just had the first one done 2 weeks ago and played this week with one eye and wow!! Can’t wait until Feb 12 when my second is done. I honestly had no read on greens. Eyesight❤️

 

[I Bleed Blue]

I was playing golf a few weeks back and talk was of a mutual friend who is a phenomenal player: he consistently shoots under par and wins most regional amateur tourneys. He drives the ball a mile, strikes his blades clean and has mastered nearly every golf shot. When asked why he never did it professionally he replied "I tried. Im really good, but I can't putt like those guys"... (even though he never 3 putted)
To our eyes, this guy was the best non-pro golfer we've ever seen. The difference between his game and some of the lower level pros was not noticeable to the casual eye. But, he was miles away from being a pro, because his putting wasn't world class. Also, had a good friend who played in the Rays' class A organization as a southpaw: he threw 100, had a nasty 12-6 deuce but...he never made it past A ball because he wasn't mentally tough enough to shake off a bad inning. "That's what the pros have that I don't" he'd say.

The reason I bring this up is that I often find myself watching NBA games thinking "Adama could play well at this level" or "Tristen is just as physical and good of a scorer" than some of these guards, but the consensus from NBA brass doesn't match that view. Similarly, M Fultz never jumped off the screen as a #1 pick when I watched UW.

As an open discussion

What do you think separates a star (in any sport) from becoming a pro?

Why does an SEC defensive player of the year Line backer never see the field??"

Pros usually have that extra gear. In the golf analogy, a scratch golfer is considered top 1-2% but not even considered a good college player. A +4 to +6 would be a great player and win some tournaments but Korn Ferry level guys would still smoke them. Let alone a guy on the PGA Tour.

 

[uconnfan68]

Always been a fairly good putter until about 6 months ago which coincided with worsening of my cataracts. Just had the first one done 2 weeks ago and played this week with one eye and wow!! Can’t wait until Feb 12 when my second is done. I honestly had no read on greens. Eyesight❤️

Had mine done years ago, and find my depth perception on the course is worse than ever. Not sure if it’s always been bad, as being pin high was pretty regular for me when I could play.

 

[Umami Zen]

I'm an ok golfer that enjoys the game. I had the opportunity to play in a Champions Tour Pro-Am one year with a former PGA Tour pro (obviously older >50 yrs of age at the time)-Never heard of him. He goes out and shoots a 68 while he is hanging out with a threesome made up of weekend warriors/biz people. Lucky him! Anyway-We get to the 19th hole and have lunch. So I ask him advice on how a decent athlete can get better at golf if interested. He said 2 things.1- Get a short game coach who can really help you with the scoring clubs. 2- Find someone who can teach you how not to hit the ball straight. In other words-Whatever your natural shot shape is-Fade or draw. Learn how to hit all of your clubs with that shape and use it as an advantage. Found that advice to be interesting and helpful.

The only shot in golf that matters is the next one.

 

[Patman]

So, I have the fortune, or not, of playing in the same rec league as a (former?) Team USA member in my broomball league and while since it is broomball playing against him is more approachable due to him not being galaxies beyond as the sports depth is shallow so will be your top players and you're playing with a 4 inch wide orange ball but to watch him move and to make plays with such casualness and finesse is really unfair. Again, its not like hockey where a player can just skate around you and cut you up, you're running and the finesse of an orange ball using basically a long stick with no control capabilities but you just realize how far the distance is between you and them. Thankfully he's reasonably humble and for everybody, even the top of the top players nobody is a pro in this sport.

 

[Edward Sargent]

Had mine done years ago, and find my depth perception on the course is worse than ever. Not sure if it’s always been bad, as being pin high was pretty regular for me when I could play.

I tried wearing my glasses with the lens removed for the surgical eye and was completely missing the ball. Took the glasses off and put my new eye behind the ball and I was fine. My wife sill has issues with depth perception but she was told it was because of her severe astigmatism.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

It’s fractions of a fraction of a fraction of some metric.

Like Shabazz Napier is absolutely a superior point guard - of all the point guards on earth, in terms of skill, perhaps there’s a handful better than he is….but he’s a fraction too slow or just fraction off athletically and you can’t be that in the NBA. Like he’s 99.90% of the way there, but the tip of the spear is so pointy that there’s no place for him.

It’s like when fast NFL guys think they’re going to race professional sprinters. They’re really, really fast, but the pro sprinter is 100% and his 100% is going to absolutely thrash your 99%.

This, plus there is an inherent mental ability that is its own form of intelligence, an ability to interpret what they are seeing at high speeds and react in centimeters or even millimeters in ways that others can't. I read an article years ago about Michael Jordan that talked about his genius ability to read speeds and angles, to know when he was open, and know when he had to relocate. To know the exact moment and distance when to turn the exact angle and arc so he would get to the basket a split second before the help rather than a split second after.

I have coached a lot of youth and some high school aged basketball, both boys and girls, and the mental aspect is so underrated and so often missed by coaches at all levels who almost always go for the athletic measurables when they put their teams together and think they can coach the mental up. I am not talking classic mental toughness when I talk about this kind of mental acuity, I am talking the ability to see how a chessboard with 10 moving pieces is developing just a little better than everyone else that is on the court.

The first thing most high school and even many college coaches do when they organize their lineups is to put the best athlete among their short players at point guard and put the ball in his or her hands every possession. Some of these players can get coached up to be decent point guards, but I think the mental ability to see the court this way is an inherent component of a person's makeup just like their speed or jumping ability or height, and I do not think coaches appreciate that fact. You can coach a kid up a little on it, but either the player has it or they don't.

I also think shooting is such a unique skill, and it is also fundamentally a natural ability of a person to instinctively be able to judge, in a split second, the distance to the basket and proximity of defenders, and release the ball with the right force, velocity, arc, and rotation to consistently put it in the basket. I read a story almost 30 years ago where a reporter claimed that Pat Riley said that Greg Anthony could take 1,000 shots a day and he would still never be a good shooter. I absolutely believe Riley said that, and I also believe that statement is 100% accurate. Greg Anthony was a hard worker but was never going to get better as a shooter. I know Anthony had a couple of decent percentage shooting seasons on Portland late in his career, but he was deep bench and taking about three catch-and-shoot 3's a game, and a lot of his minutes came in garbage time. That was not scalable.

Maybe 5% of kids I have coached who really put the time in ever materially improve their shooting, and I suspect there is some similar metric as you move up the pyramid of talent. Name the number of UConn players, men or women, that arrived in Storrs unable to shoot and became great shooters. I am sure there are some, but I can't think of any. On the other hand, Brian Fair may have been the laziest player to ever get meaningful playing time on either UConn team, and he was in range and accurate when he walked in the gym. Fine motor skills like shooting are mostly baked in, and just how the players' minds and bodies work.

 

[Conndog]

The current PGA event in La Jolla was fun to watch yesterday- high winds made them suspend play. Winds were 20-25 mph coming off the ocean, and the pros finally looked at regular duffers on the course, especially the putting. I never saw so many missed 3-5 foot putts by pros before. The leaders still were below par, but Torrey pines was doing a number on them. Not as bad as the Carnage at Carnoustie, but still something you just don’t see with pga golfers

 

[NJHusky]

Pros usually have that extra gear. In the golf analogy, a scratch golfer is considered top 1-2% but not even considered a good college player. A +4 to +6 would be a great player and win some tournaments but Korn Ferry level guys would still smoke them. Let alone a guy on the PGA Tour.

Yup. Had an electrician over last year and we started talking golf. Turns out he played the mini tours but realized he wasn’t remotely good enough to even play Korn Ferry. And he said he was a +4. His comment was you have no idea how good the Korn Ferry guys are, let alone the pros.

 

[Palatine]

I played Congressional Country Club on the last day members could play (I'm not one) before Tiger's tournament. It was basically the tournament set up, rough, etc. I was i my 40s, in pretty good shape, shooting mostly in the 90s when I played. By the 12th hole I didn't think I could finish I was so wasted -- and we were using carts. The courses these guys play defeat you physically and mentally.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Did this male tennis pro she could beat have arms and legs?

Yes, but a local club "pro" isn't a match for a woman who played on tour at one point. It's a good example of what the thread is about.