"Because I can't putt like those guys"...

[Jaydumo20]

I was playing golf a few weeks back and talk was of a mutual friend who is a phenomenal player: he consistently shoots under par and wins most regional amateur tourneys. He drives the ball a mile, strikes his blades clean and has mastered nearly every golf shot. When asked why he never did it professionally he replied "I tried. Im really good, but I can't putt like those guys"... (even though he never 3 putted)
To our eyes, this guy was the best non-pro golfer we've ever seen. The difference between his game and some of the lower level pros was not noticeable to the casual eye. But, he was miles away from being a pro, because his putting wasn't world class. Also, had a good friend who played in the Rays' class A organization as a southpaw: he threw 100, had a nasty 12-6 deuce but...he never made it past A ball because he wasn't mentally tough enough to shake off a bad inning. "That's what the pros have that I don't" he'd say.

The reason I bring this up is that I often find myself watching NBA games thinking "Adama could play well at this level" or "Tristen is just as physical and good of a scorer" than some of these guards, but the consensus from NBA brass doesn't match that view. Similarly, M Fultz never jumped off the screen as a #1 pick when I watched UW.

As an open discussion

What do you think separates a star (in any sport) from becoming a pro?

Why does an SEC defensive player of the year Line backer never see the field??"

 

[HuskyHawk]

I suspect it's subtle things. My next door neighbor growing up played tennis. As a 16 year old girl she could beat the male tennis pro. Got a scholarship, then turned pro. Got to like top 120 or something in the world, which is pretty good. Then you realize almost nobody outside the top 20 or so wins anything. And the top 2-3 dominate.

I doubt most of the best have true physical advantages over the other professionals. It has to be mental, but is that vision? Processing? An ability to get in the zone? An ability to never get rattled by a bad moment? The recent information about the S2 exam for QBs was very interesting. The used to talk Wonderlich test, but now it's S2. Jim Rice retired early because his eyesight went. They said Ted Williams had preternatural vision. Whether tennis, basketball, baseball, soccer, hockey or football, that ability to see the field/court, see the people, anticipate what each will do, then direct your body to do a thing (and have the body be athletic enough to do it) that sets them apart. Think about outfielders, looking at a pitch 250 feet away, at 90 mph, knowing where it is in the zone and as the swing begins they are already moving, sensing how it will come off the bat. Many very fast guys are bad defenders b/c they can't get that read.

I'm a straight feel putter. I barely look at the shot. I can usually just see the path in my head. I'm not usually far off, but I also lack the stroke consistency to make putts.

 

[uconnfan68]

I was playing golf a few weeks back and talk was of a mutual friend who is a phenomenal player: he consistently shoots under par and wins most regional amateur tourneys. He drives the ball a mile, strikes his blades clean and has mastered nearly every golf shot. When asked why he never did it professionally he replied "I tried. Im really good, but I can't putt like those guys"... (even though he never 3 putted)
To our eyes, this guy was the best non-pro golfer we've ever seen. The difference between his game and some of the lower level pros was not noticeable to the casual eye. But, he was miles away from being a pro, because his putting wasn't world class. Also, had a good friend who played in the Rays' class A organization as a southpaw: he threw 100, had a nasty 12-6 deuce but...he never made it past A ball because he wasn't mentally tough enough to shake off a bad inning. "That's what the pros have that I don't" he'd say.

The reason I bring this up is that I often find myself watching NBA games thinking "Adama could play well at this level" or "Tristen is just as physical and good of a scorer" than some of these guards, but the consensus from NBA brass doesn't match that view. Similarly, M Fultz never jumped off the screen as a #1 pick when I watched UW.

As an open discussion

What do you think separates a star (in any sport) from becoming a pro?

Why does an SEC defensive player of the year Line backer never see the field??"

Unless you're playing on tour level courses, at tour speeds, it's impossible to determine whether you can really putt, or chip, or hit irons, or even drive. I played TPC River Highlands (Cromwell, CT), many years ago, just a week or so after the tournament. The greens were like parking lots. Couldn't hold any shot without tour level spin. Putting was comical, and I thought that was something I could do. It was just too fast.

 

[huskyfan224]

Those guys on tour are exceptional at everything. While I agree that short game is of upmost importance at the highest level, the guys who win aren’t missing many shots, if at all…and if they do, they recover. So many good players if you tried to make it, but there is a difference. And to most, it seems razor thin, and it is to gain status in certain places…but in reality on PGA Tour, it is a long ways off. I know some who I think could compete out there, don’t get me wrong, but timing is also a huge factor, gotta get hot at the right time. It’s unfortunate

I’m a +4 and I don’t even sniff it lol

 

[Rocktheworld]

When he’s just messing around with you, of course he can putt fine. It’s professional greens and the pressure that makes it that much more difficult

 

[Jaydumo20]

I suspect it's subtle things. My next door neighbor growing up played tennis. As a 16 year old girl she could beat the male tennis pro. Got a scholarship, then turned pro. Got to like top 120 or something in the world, which is pretty good. Then you realize almost nobody outside the top 20 or so wins anything. And the top 2-3 dominate.

I doubt most of the best have true physical advantages over the other professionals. It has to be mental, but is that vision? Processing? An ability to get in the zone? An ability to never get rattled by a bad moment? The recent information about the S2 exam for QBs was very interesting. The used to talk Wonderlich test, but now it's S2. Jim Rice retired early because his eyesight went. They said Ted Williams had preternatural vision. Whether tennis, basketball, baseball, soccer, hockey or football, that ability to see the field/court, see the people, anticipate what each will do, then direct your body to do a thing (and have the body be athletic enough to do it) that sets them apart. Think about outfielders, looking at a pitch 250 feet away, at 90 mph, knowing where it is in the zone and as the swing begins they are already moving, sensing how it will come off the bat. Many very fast guys are bad defenders b/c they can't get that read.

I'm a straight feel putter. I barely look at the shot. I can usually just see the path in my head. I'm not usually far off, but I also lack the stroke consistency to make putts.

Well said. I agree that it probably isn't a crazy physical advantage that sets the great ones apart and vision is an interesting thought. I always like to use Manny Ramirez as an example of that: he was pretty out of shape in his mid-late years but he was still a better hitter than 99% of the league because he saw everything. For hitters in baseball I would agree that some combo of vision and quick twitch reflexes sets the best apart from the rest.

 

[Jaydumo20]

Unless you're playing on tour level courses, at tour speeds, it's impossible to determine whether you can really putt, or chip, or hit irons, or even drive. I played TPC River Highlands (Cromwell, CT), many years ago, just a week or so after the tournament. The greens were like parking lots. Couldn't hold any shot without tour level spin. Putting was comical, and I thought that was something I could do. It was just too fast.

Exactly!!! I think as amateur athletes like most of on the yard are, it's difficult to really assess the level of greatness if we base it off what we, ourselves, can do. The comparisons are always so skewed when you see what the pros have to contend with. Its always a shock when you find that the star athlete in your hometown, when you're a teenager, just signed with a low-level D2 school as a safety, when this kid was scoring 3 TDs a game, rushing for 150 yds/game and leading the team in tackles. And I'm from Greenwich, not a 500 person town. I thought Notre Dame was gonna be beating this kids door down....

 

[NHRich]

Those guys are amazingly long and accurate. I play at a 7000 yard course that the pros would destroy.
They do also need to have great short games and be exceptional putters. Imagine being able to reach every par 5 in two, and drive the ball 320.
Watching on tv sometimes they are 300 yards to the pin for their 2rd shot and reach.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

I was playing golf a few weeks back and talk was of a mutual friend who is a phenomenal player: he consistently shoots under par and wins most regional amateur tourneys. He drives the ball a mile, strikes his blades clean and has mastered nearly every golf shot. When asked why he never did it professionally he replied "I tried. Im really good, but I can't putt like those guys"... (even though he never 3 putted)
To our eyes, this guy was the best non-pro golfer we've ever seen. The difference between his game and some of the lower level pros was not noticeable to the casual eye. But, he was miles away from being a pro, because his putting wasn't world class. Also, had a good friend who played in the Rays' class A organization as a southpaw: he threw 100, had a nasty 12-6 deuce but...he never made it past A ball because he wasn't mentally tough enough to shake off a bad inning. "That's what the pros have that I don't" he'd say.

The reason I bring this up is that I often find myself watching NBA games thinking "Adama could play well at this level" or "Tristen is just as physical and good of a scorer" than some of these guards, but the consensus from NBA brass doesn't match that view. Similarly, M Fultz never jumped off the screen as a #1 pick when I watched UW.

As an open discussion

What do you think separates a star (in any sport) from becoming a pro?

Why does an SEC defensive player of the year Line backer never see the field??"

A friend’s dad is a scratch golfer and belongs to a club down in Florida that Ricky Fowler does. He’s played with him a few times (and not at his prime). At my peak I was a 12 index. He said the gap between me and him was miles closer than the gap between he and Ricky.

 

[huskyfan224]

A friend’s dad is a scratch golfer and belongs to a club down in Florida that Ricky Fowler does. He’s played with him a few times (and not at his prime). At my peak I was a 12 index. He said the gap between me and him was miles closer than the gap between he and Ricky.

It’s not even close lol, scratch is respectable but that term garners such a name amongst amateurs. A 12 handicap is about equivalent to high school golf team members who barely, if at all, play

Scratch is basically being able to shoot par or under once in awhile.

 

[KembaSlice]

A friend’s dad is a scratch golfer and belongs to a club down in Florida that Ricky Fowler does. He’s played with him a few times (and not at his prime). At my peak I was a 12 index. He said the gap between me and him was miles closer than the gap between he and Ricky.

There's a funny video online of Brian Scalabrine challenging random college players, European pros etc in 1 on 1 and absolutely destroying them and he says something along the lines of "I may suck...as a pro..but I'm closer to Lebron than you are to me"

 

[Chin Diesel]

When he’s just messing around with you, of course he can putt fine. It’s professional greens and the pressure that makes it that much more difficult

Which is a long-winded way of saying he can't putt like those guys who can maintain their putting skill on professional greens and pressure.

 

[huskiesNhoos]

I've played soccer against a ton of D1, semi-pro and pro guys in my day. The game just seems slower for the really good ones...I don't know how else to describe it. They're not necessarily flashier/bigger/faster/stronger, but there's no wasted movement, they know when to look up and open their body up, their decision-making is better...just everything looks simple and obvious when they do it.

 

[UCfor3]

There isn't a one size fits all answer to this question. Each sport and individual has a different reason or reasons why they don't make it. There are often many reasons also, not just one. In baseball for example it could be as simple as you have a hole in your swing and once the scouting report is out, pitchers will hammer you low and in. Some guys can't lay off the high, hard stuff. Some guys can't hit a curve ball. With pitchers, it's often command or control. A couple inches on way or the other is the difference between paint and watching a guy go bridge. Too many walks are a killer as well. Some guys have trouble repeating their delivery. This is all not taking into account the mental aspect or work ethic or genetics or talent or athleticism or a million other things.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

There's a funny video online of Brian Scalabrine challenging random college players, European pros etc in 1 on 1 and absolutely destroying them and he says something along the lines of "I may suck...as a pro..but I'm closer to Lebron than you are to me"

A great series of videos… every time the Olympics rolls around, a meme pops up that every event should include a participant of average athletic ability, just to show the wild gap.

 

[Rocktheworld]

I've played soccer against a ton of D1, semi-pro and pro guys in my day. The game just seems slower for the really good ones...I don't know how else to describe it. They're not necessarily flashier/bigger/faster/stronger, but there's no wasted movement, they know when to look up and open their body up, their decision-making is better...just everything looks simple and obvious when they do it.

Because their hours spent practicing dwarves yours. Even just the D1 guys spent hours playing soccer and on skill drills every single day. Their brain learns through the countless touches and scenarios they encounter through all that practice. The notion of things “slowing down” is a common phrase and is often used when discussing mastery.

 

[ibleedhuskyblue]

Slow heartbeat (or the ability to not be sped up by pressure). I believe that's what separates the greats from everyone else. The rest of us get rattled (heartbeat speeds up) in those situations.

Like the kid in that movie "Wanted".

 

[huskiesNhoos]

Because their hours spent practicing dwarves yours. Even just the D1 guys spent hours playing soccer and on skill drills every single day. Their brain learns through the countless touches and scenarios they encounter through all that practice. The notion of things “slowing down” is a common phrase and is often used when discussing mastery.

Uh...thanks for trying to explain to me what I mean, but the patronizing is unnecessary. I know this, because I too played just below that level and spent those hours doing it...

 

[Rocktheworld]

Uh...thanks for trying to explain to me what I mean, but the patronizing is unnecessary. I know this, because I too played just below that level and spent those hours doing it...

Wasn’t patronizing at all bud, buck up

 

[huskiesNhoos]

Wasn’t patronizing at all bud, buck up

Ya my bad, carry on with the unnecessary explanations

 

[Spaceman213J]

The line between pro and not or major/minor league can be razor thin. We look at AJax and everybody agrees that if he could develop an average shot from mid and long range he would be a special player in the best league in the world. But if that shot never comes, than he'll probably get a taste, but not much else. Even reading talent is a talent in itself. Hand/eye cooridination is tough to judge and muscle memory is key for almost evey elite athlete in the world.

On the other topic that sort of sprang from this, I could always putt. Reading greens has never been a problem, but it can be for some players. When I worked at a golf course, my super intendent actually had me play a couple of rounds with his son. This kid was 15 and could bomb the ball down the fairway. He was long and pretty accurate with all his clubs, but his putting was atrocious. He couldn't read a green to save his life and struggled to harness a consistent putting stroke. It just wasn't something he could do. He improved some, but never was better than an average recreational golfer at putting.

 

[Kolumbo]

Skill and natural athletic ability. Yes, the physical and mental aspects are big. But some guys have exceptional skill and hand-eye coordination.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

I was a decent putter but chipping kept me from becoming the a single digit handicap. Taking the game seriously at an advanced age limits distance but there is no shame in playing a shorter course when you’re older.
Having said that watching one of the younger scratch golfers in our group compete in a US Open qualifier at our course was an eye opening experience.
Our guy was 6’3” probably 21 years who routinely smacked the ball 300+ yards .
He was paired with a Pro maybe mid 30’s and about 5’8” who played mostly in Mexico and minor tours in the Southwest
My guy routinely out drove him not surprisingly , although they technically weren’t competing against each other it quickly resembled a match. The intense concentration and pressure on every shot was way beyond what I believed. It certainly didn’t look like fun. The pro seemed to make every putt within 10-12 ft salvaging pars from possible bogies and capitalizing on birdy opportunities . He never really put himself in a bad position or made a big costly mistake.
He was amazingly consistent. Our greens are fast and difficult to read on some holes but this guy played like he owned them . He shot 68 -69 ,good enough to get him to round 2 however he never made the finals. I though if this guy is just a minor player how good are the top players.
My guy eventually made some costly mistakes but still shot a respectable 73 under intense pressure and for a small entry fee ($75 ? ) he got an experience of a lifetime.
side note :
Our course record 62 was shot that day by an unknown Australian professional who seemed to drop out of site after that amazing round .
I was watching coverage of the Australian open a few years later and was shocked to see he was the leader after three rounds .
He didn’t hold up on Sunday and Jason Day came from way back to win it. When you think a guy capable of shooting 62 under the pressure of a qualifier never really became famous then you have a grasp on the difference between a good amateur and a guy who does it for a living.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

Our guy was 6’3” probably 21 years who routinely smacked the ball 300+ yards .
He was paired with a Pro maybe mid 30’s and about 5’8” who played mostly in Mexico and minor tours in the Southwest
My guy routinely out drove him not surprisingly , although they technically weren’t competing against each other it quickly resembled a match. The intense concentration and pressure on every shot was way beyond what I believed. It certainly didn’t look like fun. The pro seemed to make every putt within 10-12 ft salvaging pars from possible bogies and capitalizing on birdy opportunities . He never really put himself in a bad position or made a big costly mistake.
He was amazingly consistent. Our greens are fast and difficult to read on some holes but this guy played like he owned them . He shot 68 -69 ,good enough to get him to round 2 however he never made the finals. I though if this guy is just a minor player how good are the top players.

It’s the consistency that really sets the pros apart. Even within the pro ranks, playing 72 holes really differentiates the cream of the crop from the rest, who have a good run through Saturday but just can’t maintain that consistency. The interesting thing regarding putting is that a lot of us generally think pros are better at sinking putts than they are. The 10-ft PGA tour make % is 40%. One of the biggest differentiators in putting from really good amateurs to pros is that the pros are EXCEPTIONAL at avoiding 3-putts.

 

[Jaydumo20]

I was a decent putter but chipping kept me from becoming the a single digit handicap. Taking the game seriously at an advanced age limits distance but there is no shame in playing a shorter course when you’re older.
Having said that watching one of the younger scratch golfers in our group compete in a US Open qualifier at our course was an eye opening experience.
Our guy was 6’3” probably 21 years who routinely smacked the ball 300+ yards .
He was paired with a Pro maybe mid 30’s and about 5’8” who played mostly in Mexico and minor tours in the Southwest
My guy routinely out drove him not surprisingly , although they technically weren’t competing against each other it quickly resembled a match. The intense concentration and pressure on every shot was way beyond what I believed. It certainly didn’t look like fun. The pro seemed to make every putt within 10-12 ft salvaging pars from possible bogies and capitalizing on birdy opportunities . He never really put himself in a bad position or made a big costly mistake.
He was amazingly consistent. Our greens are fast and difficult to read on some holes but this guy played like he owned them . He shot 68 -69 ,good enough to get him to round 2 however he never made the finals. I though if this guy is just a minor player how good are the top players.
My guy eventually made some costly mistakes but still shot a respectable 73 under intense pressure and for a small entry fee ($75 ? ) he got an experience of a lifetime.
side note :
Our course record 62 was shot that day by an unknown Australian professional who seemed to drop out of site after that amazing round .
I was watching coverage of the Australian open a few years later and was shocked to see he was the leader after three rounds .
He didn’t hold up on Sunday and Jason Day came from way back to win it. When you think a guy capable of shooting 62 under the pressure of a qualifier never really became famous then you have a grasp on the difference between a good amateur and a guy who does it for a living.

The concentration thing is something that I think separates amateurs and pros. I think a lot of amateurs assume that these pros have an unconsciously great swing and we emulate that notion by going on autopilot during rounds. How many times have you had a great hole and even said out loud "ahhhh...now I know what I was doing wrong" and then assume that you can just start swinging away (and dbl bogey the next hole).
Pros obviously have a grooved swing but they setup with such attention to detail and if they don't feel perfect they immediately regroup.