Beating A Dead Horse- 3 Point Shooting

[mauconnfan]

Disagree completely. I think it’s 90% the offense. I think it’s a bridge too far to think that we’ve just been unlucky that 100% of our recruits over a four year period became substandard shooters in college. The offense turns good shooters into mediocre shooters and mediocre shooters into bad ones.

You can dream but none of these guys are shooting better (maybe 2-3% if they work real hard) with a better coach and even a motion offense from Geno. They are fairly awful shooters who occasionally treat you to a game which may make you believe there's hope. But far too often they come back to help us with reality. I mean they miss open shots what other proof do you need? It's not like they are never open they are, but they miss a lot. Rodney Purvis improved as a shooter with the same offense maybe he worked harder to become a better shooter? No matter, besides the occasional Vital streak we have trouble brewing on the perimeter for the next guy too.

I wil say this if we get a coach who can get us a lot of lay ups we will see some steady improvement.

 

[Guapo]

I thought this was going to be the SMU game thread

 

[August_West]

I thought this was going to be the SMU game thread

 

[jibsey]

I thought this was going to be the SMU game thread

++

 

[HuskyHawk]

You can dream but none of these guys are shooting better (maybe 2-3% if they work real hard) with a better coach and even a motion offense from Geno. They are fairly awful shooters who occasionally treat you to a game which may make you believe there's hope. But far too often they come back to help us with reality. I mean they miss open shots what other proof do you need? It's not like they are never open they are, but they miss a lot. Rodney Purvis improved as a shooter with the same offense maybe he worked harder to become a better shooter? No matter, besides the occasional Vital streak we have trouble brewing on the perimeter for the next guy too.

I wil say this if we get a coach who can get us a lot of lay ups we will see some steady improvement.

Well we can agree that whatever the cause, we hope it improves. And we get more layups. I really think we need to run much more, but to do that we need defensive rebounds. And not by the guards.

 

[mauconnfan]

Well we can agree that whatever the cause, we hope it improves. And we get more layups. I really think we need to run much more, but to do that we need defensive rebounds. And not by the guards.

No doubt we agree there HH. CV can not be our rebounding leader next year or things will not have changed all that much. Have to say though kids got a big heart going to the boards.

 

[Rewster]

Polley will be a good shooter at UConn. Mark it down.

 

[Huskybass]

No doubt we agree there HH. CV can not be our rebounding leader next year or things will not have changed all that much. Have to say though kids got a big heart going to the boards.

Vital is all heart and desire. Love that about him. His shot selection can be bad, but you can never find fault with his effort.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

As we look to next season and hopefully improvement I was concerned that our roster will be in a Grounhog Day mode regarding 3 point shooting next year. Jalen and Vital are career 32% shooters on 300 and 350 attempts, not a small sample. Gilbert who has only played 9 games was not known to be strong in this area coming in has about 40 attempts for 22%.
Jalen and Alterique are both guys that drive the ball and create their own shot and with Larrier gone who are they kicking to? Are we hoping for someone to have a Giffey like transformation? Our best case scenario is that everyone coming next season stays but that in itself does not solve this problem which if unsolved basically leaves us unable to compete with good teams.

Polley has a decent shot and Wilson and Mathews are also allegedly decent shooters.
If you play a three guard with Gilbert, Jaylen, Vital , Wilson/Polley . We will be okay if Matthews can shoot then we’re way ahead of this year.
Of course your complaining about the lack of shooting ability of guys that might not even be here.
Let’s see who we have before we complain.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

We have crappy shooters it's much simpler than you'd like to admit. Doesn't matter what offense we run or ball movement, they can't shoot even wide open. Need better shooters to make better percentages period.

I don't agree mau.

Although it's true we haven't had a really gifted shooter in a few years, our offense does nothing to help the shooters we do have get open shots in rhythm. All the shooting practice in the world means nothing unless you can recreate that practiced rhythm in game situations.

We don't recreate that rhythm with our offensive sets. Too much flat footed heaving, too little inside out passing, too many shots put up as an afterthought because our offense is too simple and too chaotic.

Ollie is a great defensive coach. No equivocation there. But his offense lacks wrinkles, is painfully easy to scout (ice the guards, don't worry about the bigs) and places too much of a premium on individual players manufacturing shots out of their behinds.

 

[mauconnfan]

I don't agree mau.

Although it's true we haven't had a really gifted shooter in a few years, our offense does nothing to help the shooters we do have get open shots in rhythm. All the shooting practice in the world means nothing unless you can recreate that practiced rhythm in game situations.

We don't recreate that rhythm with our offensive sets. Too much flat footed heaving, too little inside out passing, too many shots put up as an afterthought because our offense is too simple and too chaotic.

Ollie is a great defensive coach. No equivocation there. But his offense lacks wrinkles, is painfully easy to scout (ice the guards, don't worry about the bigs) and places too much of a premium on individual players manufacturing shots out of their behinds.

I'm not even talking about coaching here as I'm not even sure he's a great defensive coach. But a good shooter can shoot, no matter what the offense is they make shots. Everyone on earth knew they were getting the ball to Rashad Anderson to shoot and he rarely saw an open look - but he could shoot. Don't get me wrong I agree it would help a ton to have even a hint of an interior game to get guys wide open looks but I must admit I don't have faith in any of these guys they even make them when open. They aren't shooters, at best they get on a streak.

Bottom line is we need real shooters, guys who can make shots with defenders in their jocks while being money when left alone. We have none of those from what I see.

 

[The Funster]

We don't have a dagger guy. We don't have a guy that the opponents have to scheme against. Vital can get hot but he has to be in rhythm and wide open.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

But a good shooter can shoot, no matter what the offense is they make shots. Everyone on earth knew they were getting the ball to Rashad Anderson to shoot and he rarely saw an open look - but he could shoot.

This is just not true.

Rashad played on absolutely loaded teams with too many scoring options for him to be keyed on and during some of the best point guard play in program history. He got open looks constantly, in rhythm.

Ever notice the correlation of our best shooters also happened to be playing with our best point guards? You should look into it, it's striking. Why do I bring this up?

Sharing the basketball well leads to better shot selection as well as shots where the player can properly set his feet and shoot in rhythm.

That last part sums up the biggest problem with UConn, on the actual hardwood, in the last four years. Partly by talent, partly by design, it what UConn doesn't do on offense, as a rule.

 

[Sky ball]

Our offensive approach creates bad three point shooters. It would be an astonishing coincidence if every players who could once shoot, suddenly forgot how when they got to Storrs. It's an Occam's Razor explanation. Our offense isn't built around creating open looks from behind the arc, and we don't do a good job of it. Other teams use motion and ball movement to free up three point shots by design. Our designed play is a guard driving to the hoop against at least 3 defenders.

Too me the whole offence this season was based on two plays. Pass the ball a couple times then either take a contested 3 ptr or drive to the hoop. It started to get unwatchable.

 

[mauconnfan]

This is just not true.

Rashad played on absolutely loaded teams with too many scoring options for him to be keyed on and during some of the best point guard play in program history. He got open looks constantly, in rhythm.

Ever notice the correlation of our best shooters also happened to be playing with our best point guards? You should look into it, it's striking. Why do I bring this up?

Sharing the basketball well leads to better shot selection as well as shots where the player can properly set his feet and shoot in rhythm.

That last part sums up the biggest problem with UConn, on the actual hardwood, in the last four years. Partly by talent, partly by design, it what UConn doesn't do on offense, as a rule.

Agree to disagree Wonderful. You make some valid points and I hear you, but bottom line is on this team we have no one who is Albert Mouring, Ben Gordon, Rashad Anderson or alike not even close. We can talk until we're blue in the face that if we did this on O or had that in the lineup, none of that rhetoric will make any of these guys good shooters because none are.

 

[Huskybass]

Agree to disagree Wonderful. You make some valid points and I hear you, but bottom line is on this team we have no one who is Albert Mouring, Ben Gordon, Rashad Anderson or alike not even close. We can talk until we're blue in the face that if we did this on O or had that in the lineup, none of that rhetoric will make any of these guys good shooters because none are.

Don't count Polley out yet. He oozes potential.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

I don't agree mau.

Although it's true we haven't had a really gifted shooter in a few years, our offense does nothing to help the shooters we do have get open shots in rhythm. All the shooting practice in the world means nothing unless you can recreate that practiced rhythm in game situations.

We don't recreate that rhythm with our offensive sets. Too much flat footed heaving, too little inside out passing, too many shots put up as an afterthought because our offense is too simple and too chaotic.

Ollie is a great defensive coach. No equivocation there. But his offense lacks wrinkles, is painfully easy to scout (ice the guards, don't worry about the bigs) and places too much of a premium on individual players manufacturing shots out of their behinds.

I agree with Mau .
The motion offense or any basketball strategy is predicated on spreading the defense . All are simply methods of what us old soccer coaches would call creating space. Without a third threat this year until Polley somewhat emerged guys could just pack it in on you negating the talents of JA.
Ask Geno how you get a backdoor cut against a packed in D. He would laugh at you. Basketball offense is a set of dependent variables.
1. Shoot the ball
every thing after that happens magically
You first have to make them play you honestly.
For you young guys who might coach someday
My basketball mentor was the gym coach. Who to my good fortune was the retired best basketball coach in my schools history.
I was watching a varsity basketball game and we were playing a real good team. They had a slick passer at PG but he was their third or fourth scoring option.
He took and made the first couple of baskets but never or rarely shot the ball again. I asked coach why!
Even if your the 4th or 5th option it’s important to establish that you have a capability to score. Once you established that you have multiple options than you can run your offense. The team especially early lacked any respect for 2 of our 5 players . John Wooden couldn’t run an offense in that situation.

 

[jibsey]

SMU game in progress case in point, we are 0-5 from 3 with Anderson and Jalenn missing the gym, yet many here feel it’s the offensive sets.

 

[Tenspro2002]

KO hasn't prioritized shooting the 3 or defending the 3. We're pretty atrocious at both.

17 minutes into this game we're already -18 points from the 3-point line (6 for SMU, 0 for us). Very difficult to win that way.

 

[Guapo]

KO hasn't prioritized shooting the 3 or defending the 3. We're pretty atrocious at both.

17 minutes into this game we're already -18 points from the 3-point line (6 for SMU, 0 for us). Very difficult to win that way.

We can't shoot, we can't rebound and we can't play defense.

That's not a winning formula.

 

[Huskybass]

We can't shoot, we can't rebound and we can't play defense.

That's not a winning formula.

And yet there are still a handful of guys on here who believe this should be allowed to continue next season.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

We can't shoot, we can't rebound and we can't play defense.

That's not a winning formula.

We are a poor shooting team
But the other two are functions of effort
So “can’t “isn’t the right word ,f”For what ever reason this team didn’t want to play their butts off for 40 minutes a game.
To be fair we did outrebound SMU today and after coasting for 30 -35 minutes they decided to play defense.

 

[jibsey]

Looking at the stats yesterday we had 4 3’s for 25% which by itself is terrible, but a closer look is that until a garbage time comeback with the game out of reach 20 points down we had nothing. We pressed and went frantic and tried to close the gap too late as usual. We have seen this multiple times this year. Teams go in to a slowdown with big leads that often invite these run that eventually just run out. SMU made 10. There is no way to compete in college basketball without the 3 as far as getting to the tournament or a long tourney run. You can win individual games shooting badly but long term it catches up. Our roster for next year is not better at this as of now.

 

[uconnfan68]

Completely agreed. Just looking at the stats, it's insane how bad we are at shooting 3s. BUT when I watch the game, so many of them are Vital bailing out a possession with a deep bomb, Larrier trying to go solo, and shots otherwise not within the flow of a good offense. Our shooters aren't awful, our offense is. Not much movement, and the movement that occurs never seems to accomplish anything. Very hard to actually get shooters open the way we play.

But if they made the shots, like the guys in the league do, our offense would look great. And the assists would go way up too. Nothing like missed shots to ruin assist totals.

 

[Rico444]

Throughout UCONNs Calhoun run, we have seen great 3 point shooters. Brian Fair, Ray Allen, Rashad Anderson, Ben Gordon, Albert Mouring, Neils Giffey.....they made threes that were open threes, less open threes, etc.
Our current group of shooters is nowhere near anyone in the above group. To say that they would make more threes if the took better open shots is true...but isnt that like saying "Our Hitters" would hit better if they lobbed the pitch in right down the middle?

I'm glad you brought up Niels Giffey...He pretty much only took 3s that were catch and shoot, and most of the time he was pretty open. He was a great shooter, but he wasn't trying to break his man down off the dribble and then hoist up a quicki 3 with a hand in his face. Vital needs to watch a montage of Giffey's made 3s...if he limits his shots to catch and shoot, his percentage is going to go way up.