Bazz's place among the all time UConn greats ?

[OkaForPrez]

I'll try to be clearer. He's getting a lot of bonus points because the team beat other teams that were, over the course of the season, better than they were. They beat Florida twice, but Florida, on the balance of their performance throughout the year, was the better team. Unless you think that Houston was better than UConn this year.



I'm judging on actual on-court performance. Allen played basketball better at UConn than Napier did, and it's not all that close.

Put me in the disagree with this statement camp.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

Due to recent events a.k.a. what have you done for me lately, I usually stay away from these conversations. I thought judgments would favor Napier - but couldn't resist after Bruce's comments.

You can't look at post UConn accomplishments. Everyone puts Ray at the top of the list - but fact is - Walker and Napier had more successful careers at UConn than Ray. Are you judging based on NBA ready game, movie appearances, or what the media thought?

Shabazz Napier is, by far, on the Mount Rushmore of UConn Men's Basketball Players. I'm just looking at body of work and moving the program forward. Walker and Napier are two of the four presidents. People should debate who will be the other two out of Ray, Emeka, Rip - if you want 5 heads on UConn's Mount Rushmore of Players - there's your top 5.

I'm not ignoring the fact that Coach Ollie was a tremendous factor in this year's championship. Napier did more for this program's success, as a player, than Donyell, Rip, and Emeka. Napier's leadership, clutch shooting, staying with the program during the "dark period", puts him on a pedestal.

More than half of this board was depressed regarding Calhoun's retirement, Scholarship loss, Post Season Ban, Conference Realignment, etc. That's a lot of ! It was non-stop bitching, from more than a few yarders, the past two seasons. Napier's career was more successful Rip's, Emeka's, and Donyell's ... period.

Agree with most of this. Especially the top 5 on Rushmore. If you had to cut it to 4, sorry Ray. No ship, no Rushmore. I'd put Donyell at #6.

 

[Tenspro2002]

This is obviously true, but I don't know why we'd pretend that wins and losses at different times of year have similar meaning. They don't.
Florida had five fewer losses than us this year. Does anyone care?

That's not my point at all. I'm just saying that Shabazz, for all his greatness and accomplishments, was never on a classically-dominant UConn team (contrast to Ray Allen, whose teams lost 5 conference games and 13 games overall in his 3 years).

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

I'll try to be clearer. He's getting a lot of bonus points because the team beat other teams that were, over the course of the season, better than they were. They beat Florida twice, but Florida, on the balance of their performance throughout the year, was the better team. Unless you think that Houston was better than UConn this year.



I'm judging on actual on-court performance. Allen played basketball better at UConn than Napier did, and it's not all that close.

Yeah, I'm sorry, I just don't agree with either of these points, and I think the first point you think you might be making might actually undercut your case. If Napier is getting them to beat teams they're not better than, doesn't that speak to how good he is? Or are you on the "this whole thing was a fluke" bandwagon?

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

I'll try to be clearer. He's getting a lot of bonus points because the team beat other teams that were, over the course of the season, better than they were. They beat Florida twice, but Florida, on the balance of their performance throughout the year, was the better team. Unless you think that Houston was better than UConn this year.



I'm judging on actual on-court performance. Allen played basketball better at UConn than Napier did, and it's not all that close.

Jesus. If he's getting too much credit for anything, it's the 2011 team, which Kemba (and to a lesser extent, Lamb) carried. You're actually making the case for Bazz being the best of all time.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

That's not my point at all. I'm just saying that Shabazz, for all his greatness and accomplishments, was never on a classically-dominant UConn team (contrast to Ray Allen, whose teams lost 5 conference games and 13 games overall in his 3 years).

I guess by "classically dominant" you mean a team that was ranked at or near the top of the polls all season? Well, I suppose it comes down to what's more important - 2 rings or consistently high mid-season rankings?

To ask another way: would you rather be UConn or Syracuse?

 

[Inyatkin]

I'll try to be clearer. He's getting a lot of bonus points because the team beat other teams that were, over the course of the season, better than they were.

The problem is that you're using this as a mark against him. When you win counts. That 32-3 record Ray's team put up was nice, but empty. I'm sorry, playing your best when it matters counts for something.

 

[WillMadsDad]

Bruce: Allen had more talent - but I'll take Shabazz's leadership and defense over Ray Allen's any day. Two National Championships say that. Saying that it's not all that close just plain wrong. Allen was a typical NBA ready player who had a good college career, but Napier's on-court performance was better. Leading the team in scoring, rebounding (at his height?!?), and assists.

So - you're still saying that Allen's UConn on-court performance was better than Napier's?

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

That's not my point at all. I'm just saying that Shabazz, for all his greatness and accomplishments, was never on a classically-dominant UConn team (contrast to Ray Allen, whose teams lost 5 conference games and 13 games overall in his 3 years).

Give me 1999, 2004, 2011, and 2014 over 1992, 1994, 1996, and 2006 any day.

 

[Kitaman]

Do you all remember when we used to make fun of Bazz pounding the ball and pointing all over the place? Man all that yelling and pointing won him a Championship.

As for the question, its no disrespect to other stars saying that he had the best 'career' in a UConn uniform. The kid was mentored by the former best (Champion Kemba), lost a HOF coach (Calhoun), lost about 6-8 players along the way, was ineligible for post season play, and had to play for a brand new 'inexperienced' head Coach. In spite of all that he became a 1st team AA, Bob Cousy award winner and led his team to a Championship Title. Oh and sprinkle in a little help he gave to student athletes, getting meal plans changed.

Not sure anyone else could have done that, and I'd like (and want) to forever think that only Bazz could, making that his legacy.

 

[Tenspro2002]

I guess by "classically dominant" you mean a team that was ranked at or near the top of the polls all season? Well, I suppose it comes down to what's more important - 2 rings or consistently high mid-season rankings?

To ask another way: would you rather be UConn or Syracuse?

It's getting a bit off-topic, but I think it's a fair question whose last 5 years you would rather have: ours or, say, Kansas's?

In the NFL, would you rather be the Giants or the Patriots from 2007-2012?

In MLB, would you rather be the SF Giants or the Yankees from 2010-present?

It comes up all over sports, which do you prefer: unexpected championships amid mediocrity, or steady and predictable success short of the ultimate goal?

 

[PAHusky]

I'll try to be clearer. He's getting a lot of bonus points because the team beat other teams that were, over the course of the season, better than they were. They beat Florida twice, but Florida, on the balance of their performance throughout the year, was the better team. Unless you think that Houston was better than UConn this year.



I'm judging on actual on-court performance. Allen played basketball better at UConn than Napier did, and it's not all that close.

This argument makes little to no sense. The result of the NCAA tournament is what matters, not who CallMeBruce arbitrarily decides was a better team during the season. In other words, Houston was better than UConn on 12/31, when it didn't matter, and UConn was better than every other team in the country in April, when it really does. Even if we were to take your assertion that UConn was the best team and went on a miraculous run - wouldn't that present even a stronger argument for Bazz? By your logic, he managed to carry an inferior team to victories when the pressure was the greatest. As for the Ray Allen cop out, who the better basketball player while at UConn was is a lot closer than you make it out to be, and Bazz's position among the all time greats - the entire point of the thread - is at the very least on par with Ray's, and probably surpasses it.

 

[SubbaBub]

He's up there high enough where it doesn't matter. All-American, All Conference, Conference POY, Big East Champion, National Champion, Husky of Honor. Anyone on on that level doesn't answer to anyone.

The only other credentials you might consider are National POTY and pro accolades like All-star, NBA champ, and HoF'er.

 

[Inyatkin]

It's getting a bit off-topic, but I think it's a fair question whose last 5 years you would rather have: ours or, say, Kansas's?

I don't know any Kansas fans, but my guess would be they'd switch with us every time. I know I wouldn't switch with them. Would anyone?

 

[Waquoit]

I'm judging on actual on-court performance. Allen played basketball better at UConn than Napier did, and it's not all that close.

Not in the Big Dance when it was his turn to lead.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

It's getting a bit off-topic, but I think it's a fair question whose last 5 years you would rather have: ours or, say, Kansas's?

In the NFL, would you rather be the Giants or the Patriots from 2007-2012?

In MLB, would you rather be the SF Giants or the Yankees from 2010-present?

It comes up all over sports, which do you prefer: unexpected championships amid mediocrity, or steady and predictable success short of the ultimate goal?

Is this post serious?

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

You're talking about on the court? Who would possibly pick Kansas? Would you?

I'm not sure that this is really much of a question.

It's getting a bit off-topic, but I think it's a fair question whose last 5 years you would rather have: ours or, say, Kansas's?

It comes up all over sports, which do you prefer: unexpected championships amid mediocrity, or steady and predictable success short of the ultimate goal?

 

[tzznandrew]

Not in the Big Dance when it was his turn to lead.

I like Allen a lot. I think he was a better player at UConn than Shabazz was. I think his 1996 season is among the best seasons out there.

But I'd rather have had Shabazz's career. He was a better leader, and he was instrumental in two championships.

To say that Ray's best season was better than Shabazz's does not devalue Shabazz, much like saying Shabazz was a better leader and had a better career does not devalue Ray.

 

[superjohn]

It's getting a bit off-topic, but I think it's a fair question whose last 5 years you would rather have: ours or, say, Kansas's?

In the NFL, would you rather be the Giants or the Patriots from 2007-2012?

In MLB, would you rather be the SF Giants or the Yankees from 2010-present?

It comes up all over sports, which do you prefer: unexpected championships amid mediocrity, or steady and predictable success short of the ultimate goal?

Any UConn fan that would trade places with any other program over the last 15 years would have to get their head checked.

 

[BankShot]

Bazz is truly unique in that he's a local boy, a local boy who was a key contributor to the 11 team (including that FF game vs Kentucky) as well as leading his senior year to a championship. The fact that he lead the team, in their darkest hour essentially, which is what lead to #4, makes him unique as well. He has been on ultimate UP, DOWN, and back UP again of any Husky.

The 2 Championships doesn't make him the greatest Husky, because just imagine, if Ricky Moore got his first in 96, or Rashad helped seal #3 in 06, would they be considered the greatest Huskies of All Time, no, but Bazz with his two and everything discussed makes him to me, the best Husky.

 

[sdhusky]

I'll try to be clearer. He's getting a lot of bonus points because the team beat other teams that were, over the course of the season, better than they were. They beat Florida twice, but Florida, on the balance of their performance throughout the year, was the better team. Unless you think that Houston was better than UConn this year.



I'm judging on actual on-court performance. Allen played basketball better at UConn than Napier did, and it's not all that close.

You would make a hell of a SU fan. You could get a 25-0 tatoo. YIPPPEEE WE BEAT CORNELL IN NOV AGAIN!!!!!

 

[Palatine]

I've come to the conclusion there is no such thing as the best husky ever.

 

[muhmitchell]

I don't think anyone hit more big shots for us than Shabazz. Game winners, momentum swinging shots, game tying shots, clutch free throws. He was a closer; he ran the offense, got to the line, or took his man off the dribble and 9 times out of 10 the ball was going in the basket.

 

[Waquoit]

I've come to the conclusion there is no such thing as the best husky ever.

That's a good point. We have too many great players, too many winners to pick just one. When you make a case for one, it comes across as downgrading another.

 

[freescooter]

My list would probably be 1. Shabazz 2. Rip 3. Kemba 4. Emeka 5. can't decide between Donyell and Ray

I also think it is easy to confuse some of these guys with their post-UConn careers, but that's a pretty fair list. I might be inclined to include Khalid el Amin somewhere near the top mostly because he brought a level of swagger/confidence that UConn needed to get over the top after in what was beginning to feel like a never ending string of Elite 8 losses. And he was a good player, too. Shabazz reminds me a bit of him. Same ice water in his veins when the game is on the line. Ray Allen wins over Donyell easily I think.