OT: Basic Tools

[superjohn]

Counter?

I've owned 4 houses going back to 1999-2000.

1) +12% on the sale - 3 years
2) +4% on the sale (got divorced and had to sell) - 5 years
3) +31% - 6 years
4) Current house is up 70% over my sale price. - 11 years

I never overbought and always made sure of looking at things like resale, proximity to schools (this house has K through 9th) within 4 blocks walking distance) and I've done things like wood flooring, redo the bathrooms, landscaping, etc that was a good investment for the cost (not something like putting in an inground pool which is a huge loser investment wise). Also refinancing for lower interest rates or to cut a 30 yr to a 15 yr any time it was worth it has been huge.

I think my sink has clogged twice in 25 years. Both times I figured it out (and I am NOT handy, YouTube is your friend). Worst thing I've had to deal with was a sump pump that didn't go on and my finished basement got flooded, but homeowners covered everything but $750.

There's tradeoffs and benefits to both owning and renting.

As for renting there's something to be said for never having to worry about a major repair like a new roof. Never paying a dime on a single project or repair, getting a new furnace, stove, washer dryer etc. for free instead of paying out of pocket if/when they break down. Never mowing a lawn or paying someone else to mow your lawn, never paying for a snow plow to do your driveway, never paying for landscaping etc. Being able to pick up and move anywhere you want in the world immediately. Not having a huge amount of your money tied up in your home with monthly mortgage payments, property taxes, maintenance/home repairs, home insurance as you pay it off.

A lot of it depends on where you live, how heavily/aggresively you invest in money markets, if you are incredibly handy/enjoy projects, living within your means.

It's so often parroted that renting is throwing away money and that couldn't be further from the truth in my experience.

 

[Deepster]

not a counter, great discussion

love the %gains, can you share every expense as well (from grass seed, to paint, to property taxes & insurance paid, to other admin costs, to labor, to attys & real estate fees, to inconvenience of mulching all wknd while us renters were partying in Ibiza), and deduct both the financial and emotional costs, including the time value of money (and time), from the headlines?

I asked ChatGPT:

Here's a breakdown of the financial comparison over the 10 years you rented:

🏠 Homeowner (Paying $2,300/month)​

• Total Paid: $276,000
• Principal Paid (Equity): $205,052.16
• Interest Paid: $70,947.84
• Net Cost (Total Paid - Equity): $70,947.84

🏢 Renter (Paying $3,000/month)​

• Total Rent Paid: $360,000
• Equity Gained: $0

📊 Conclusion​

✅ Financially, the homeowner made out better over 10 years.

Is there a scenario where renting for $3,000 a month would make more sense financially?

Yes, there are several scenarios where renting for $3,000/month could make more financial sense than buying a home—even if the monthly mortgage payment is lower. Here are some key factors that could tilt the balance in favor of renting:

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🧠​

If a renter invests the difference between the cost of renting and the cost of owning (including down payment, maintenance, insurance, taxes), and earns a solid return, they could outperform the equity gained from homeownership.

• Example: If the homeowner puts $60,000 down and the renter invests that at 7% annual return, the investment could grow to over $118,000 in 10 years.

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🛠️​

Homeowners are responsible for all repairs and maintenance. If the home requires major work (roof, HVAC, plumbing), those costs can add up quickly.

• Renting avoids surprise expenses like a $10,000 roof replacement or $5,000 HVAC system.

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📉​

If the housing market stagnates or declines, the homeowner may not build much equity—or could even lose money.

• Renting avoids the risk of being “underwater” on a mortgage.

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🧳​

Renting offers more flexibility. If you need to move for work, family, or lifestyle, you can do so without selling a home.

• Selling a home involves agent fees (~6%), closing costs, and market timing risks.

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🧾​

In some areas, property taxes or HOA fees can be very high, adding significantly to the cost of ownership.

• Renters don’t pay these directly.

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[temery]

I have a friend who managed a local tool rental place for years. When it closed, he went to work for Home Depot.

He says the number of people who buy tools they're going to use once or twice keeps the big box stores in business.

 

[jibsey]

I do as much as I can but I don’t plumb or go near an electrical panel box. YouTube videos have me doing many things I never would. Currently rattle can painting my son’s 2008 paint clearcoat destroyed Honda Civic in the garage. Not easy but anything will look better than what it was (already does). The learning experience is great plus father/son bonding.

 

[Flipside]

In some areas, property taxes or HOA fees can be very high, adding significantly to the cost of ownership.

• Renters don’t pay these directly.

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​

I got a $20K assessment and my HOA doubled to $1,150/mo, in the last few years due to https://www.npr.org/2024/03/08/1236...a-champlain-towers-south-condo-collapse-cause

I'm not complaining at all, as a former renter most of my life, and now a homeowner

Math is just math, and often doesn't take in to account a ton of expenses of owning (house or condo) vs renting ... owner's usually just cite bought & sold price - in the end, I think the 'equity' depends on how the person defines it, imho