Barry Larkin - HOF

[Chin Diesel]

zyron thanks for the OPS which is something to show he was that good for a 5 year stretch. And quite honestly Chin I don't need MVP stats (which we know mean very little considering your team needs to win something more than likely correct?) to back up any of buy arguments. I think pitchers of the era will tell you who they feared most and add to that I doubt you'll find a better 1st baseman in the game during his days defensively (maybe Hernandez) and you have a dominant player. If the Yanks had won anything he would've had 2 or 3 more MVP's I'm sure........Jim Rice was real good too and his career lasted much longer which helped but again, he wasn't as good for a stretch.......and I agree Donnie is not the only one there are many.....he came to mind on the original argument because I'm a Yankee fan!!!! Healthy he was a 1st balloter but things happen.....

Take off your blinders. You can't find a five year period of Mattingly's career that was as good as Rice's was from 75-79, whether you go by numbers or awards.

I've linked the stats for you, tell me when Mattingly had a five year stretch better than either Rice or Puckett.

 

[mauconnfan]

Take off your blinders. You can't find a five year period of Mattingly's career that was as good as Rice's was from 75-79, whether you go by numbers or awards.

I've linked the stats for you, tell me when Mattingly had a five year stretch better than either Rice or Puckett.

Blinders aren't on.........Mattingly was better than both and w/o the back would've been HOF material easily........and 60's fan, please leave the Metro Dome stats behind and look at from a baseball fan/players view, ground balls got up the middle and through holes like rabbits, no need to look at stats I watched games there. it was like playing on asphalt.

Rice averages 75-80...... .304 BA, 24 Doubles, 126 RBI, 32 HR's

DM averages 84-89..... .323 BA, 42 Doubles, 114 RBI, 27 HR's

Yeah you're right Rice was a LOT better....speaking of blinders......and on e was a lot better in the field check out the GG's.........

Oh yeah and Kirby in the Hefty Bag on asphalt.....

.327 / 32 doubles, 19 HR's and 95 RBI in a 6 year from 86-91

Yeah you guys are right Donnie couldn't hold a candle to those HOFers!!

 

[zyron]

Yeah you guys are right Donnie couldn't hold a candle to those HOFers!!

OPS+ (Takes ballpark into account) during their best 5 year stretch.

Puckett....... Rice .............Mattingly
142 ..............120................ 156
132 ...............147............... 156
153 ...............157................ 161
131 ...............154................. 146
121............... 122................. 128

They are all in chronological order.

 

[mauconnfan]

OPS+ (Takes ballpark into account) during their best 5 year stretch.

Puckett....... Rice .............Mattingly
142 ..............120................ 156
132 ...............147............... 156
153 ...............157................ 161
131 ...............154................. 146
121............... 122................. 128

They are all in chronological order.

Oh geez more proof of how much better Jim Rice was............can't believe how much better he was than Donnie in his "5 year stretch...."

 

[mauconnfan]

Oh yeah Chin, I agree Jim Rice's 78 season was one of he best offensive seasons ever too, it was impressive........ batted .315 with 25 doubles, 46 HR's, 139 RBI and K'd 126 times.........very nice

So I guess Donnie baseball's 85 season of .325 with 48 2 baggers, 35 HRs and 145 RBI and just 41K's was up there too huh? Oh yeah MVP and a GG to boot!

 

[60'sfan]

Oh yeah Chin, I agree Jim Rice's 78 season was one of he best offensive seasons ever too, it was impressive........ batted .315 with 25 doubles, 46 HR's, 139 RBI and K'd 126 times.........very nice

So I guess Donnie baseball's 85 season of .325 with 48 2 baggers, 35 HRs and 145 RBI and just 41K's was up there too huh? Oh yeah MVP and a GG to boot!

Mau, I think you need to let it go. Donny had six great years from 1984 to 1989. He was on his way to the Hall but then, I guess, he injured his back? From 1990 to 1995 he had six solid but not HOF caliber years. The injury was unfortunate but I don't think he did enough to get in.

 

[mauconnfan]

Mau, I think you need to let it go. Donny had six great years from 1984 to 1989. He was on his way to the Hall but then, I guess, he injured his back? From 1990 to 1995 he had six solid but not HOF caliber years. The injury was unfortunate but I don't think he did enough to get in.

No issues really with Don not being in..........need to do it for more years no doubt.....

How does a guy who had 19 years, who was healthier, with similar or worst stats to top it off, get in? Larkin was a real good player, so maybe they should have a Real Good of Fame or something so then the Suttons, Neikro's all have place...............

By the way I don't care that much just got a kick out of how much better Chin thought Rice was.......when healthy and at their best it was Mattingly who was the better player overall. But Rice did it longer, deserved to get to the Hall finally and I did agree with that one.

 

[nomar]

I'm not saying it's fair but I think the difference between Puckett getting in and Mattingly not getting in was the nature of their injuries. Donnie's injury was a chronic back problem, whereas Kirby's "injury" was a freak eye problem. So you've got people thinking, well, Donnie just broke down, but Kirby's career got cut short.

Rice, I rooted for him but I was on the fence as to him deserving to be in.

Larkin - surefire HOFer. No doubt in my mind. I'm sort of boggled that people here disagree. The voters didn't. Clearly no bias here -- I just think Larkin was a great ballplayer. One of the best SS's of all time.

 

[zyron]

I'm not saying it's fair but I think the difference between Puckett getting in and Mattingly not getting in was the nature of their injuries. Donnie's injury was a chronic back problem, whereas Kirby's "injury" was a freak eye problem. So you've got people thinking, well, Donnie just broke down, but Kirby's career got cut short.

So did they ever find out if it was Dennis Martinez drilling him in the head is what caused it?

 

[Chin Diesel]

Oh yeah Chin, I agree Jim Rice's 78 season was one of he best offensive seasons ever too, it was impressive........ batted .315 with 25 doubles, 46 HR's, 139 RBI and K'd 126 times.........very nice

So I guess Donnie baseball's 85 season of .325 with 48 2 baggers, 35 HRs and 145 RBI and just 41K's was up there too huh? Oh yeah MVP and a GG to boot!

I'm leaving it at this. Besides the stats you cherry picked, Rice had more hits, more runs, a higher slugging percentage, more total bases and oh by the way 15 triples too. And for a comparison agains their peers for the year, Rice led in 10 statistical categories, Mattingly led in three.

And again, for their careers Rice had five top 4 MVP finishes and one fifth place finish (six total MVP top five finishes). Mattingly has two top four finish and a fifth place for a total of three top five MVP seasons.


What I don't understand is how Mattingly gets little love from voters considering he played for the Yankees, had a squeaky clean image off the field and played hard every time he stepped on to the field.

 

[mauconnfan]

I'm leaving it at this. Besides the stats you cherry picked, Rice had more hits, more runs, a higher slugging percentage, more total bases and oh by the way 15 triples too. And for a comparison agains their peers for the year, Rice led in 10 statistical categories, Mattingly led in three.

And again, for their careers Rice had five top 4 MVP finishes and one fifth place finish (six total MVP top five finishes). Mattingly has two top four finish and a fifth place for a total of three top five MVP seasons.


What I don't understand is how Mattingly gets little love from voters considering he played for the Yankees, had a squeaky clean image off the field and played hard every time he stepped on to the field.

I liked Rice as a hitter and always felt he was as dangerous as anyone, especially at Fenway. He had more hits because he had more AB's.....not going to look at the "cherry picked" years but I know for a fact Mattingly had more hits per year almost every one of those........the other stats I proved he was basically even......the MVP's are easy - it's timing......hell if the pitcher vs every day player were the same as today he would have never won in 78 because Ron Guidry was the MVP w/o a doubt with one of the most dominant seasons in history.......only because of health issues in there even a question as to who was a better baseball player in Donnie vs Rice that's my point....please don't dismiss the glove on this one as he may have been the best 1st baseman on D ever, if not one of them and his fielding made a difference the others not so much.......

And throughout all of this I still agree with Larkin being in, hell Rizzutto is too, I just think that if you play long enough and are "good enough" you now make it........yeah I wished Mattingly played longer and was healthier so he could've been there too, but it's easier to get in than ever!!! As we start seeing the steroid guys knocking on the doors with their inflated stats it will be interesting!!!!

 

[mauconnfan]

Okay before this gets to 10 pages (like that Fishy?)my last post is as follows:

Rice was a very good player and deserves to be in the HOF

Larkin was a very good player and deserves to be in the HOF

Puckett " " " " " " " " HOF....

Mattingly didn't play long enough and doesn't deserve it but was easily the caliber of a 1st balloter if healthy........THE END

It was fun

 

[Chin Diesel]

Okay before this gets to 10 pages (like that Fishy?)my last post is as follows:

Rice was a very good player and deserves to be in the HOF

Larkin was a very good player and deserves to be in the HOF

Puckett " " " " " " " " HOF....

Mattingly didn't play long enough and doesn't deserve it but was easily the caliber of a 1st balloter if healthy........THE END

It was fun

Agreed. And that's part of what makes baseball fun.

 

[Waquoit]

I like the way Yankee fans forgave Wade Boggs for "stealing" Donnie Baseball's batting title.

 

[60'sfan]

Okay before this gets to 10 pages (like that Fishy?)my last post is as follows:

Rice was a very good player and deserves to be in the HOF

Larkin was a very good player and deserves to be in the HOF

Puckett " " " " " " " " HOF....

Mattingly didn't play long enough and doesn't deserve it but was easily the caliber of a 1st balloter if healthy........THE END

It was fun

I could not have said it better.