BAD NEWS AND GOOD NEWS

[jackl]

I think we are in for a surprise as far the physical condition of the players this season.

Probably, but not as much as the players are in for right now.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

I hate zone blockleft to With a passion. Very difficult scheme.

I totally agree. With limited practice hours, zone blocking is best left to the pros.

 

[PUPPY4]

Probably, but not as much as the players are in for right now.

You will be pleasantly surprised.

 

[jackl]

You will be pleasantly surprised.

If that is the case how could it have gotten that far off the tracks what with the grand facility and everything that they had at their beck and call so to speak.

 

[sportsart]

If that is the case how could it have gotten that far off the tracks what with the grand facility and everything that they had at their beck and call so to speak.

Toxic fuel can kill the drive of the strongest man.

 

[CTMike]

I'm pretty clearly optimistic here... good things brewing.

But I'll fully admit to being naively optimistic when P and GDL started here, too. They know more than most have forgotten about football! They know what it takes to succeed at the next level! Well, they also lost what it takes to teach kids at this level, and they weren't stringent with the strength training.

TL;DR : I'm a dope. And like being in a bad relationship, being with someone new makes me realize how much of an idiot I was before.

 

[PUPPY4]

If that is the case how could it have gotten that far off the tracks what with the grand facility and everything that they had at their beck and call so to speak.

What kind of question is that?
The facility doesn't work the players out.
These guys are using the equipment better than they were before. They are running more than before, eating better than they were before.
They are using that world class facility the way it was built to be used.

 

[CTMike]

What kind of question is that?
The facility doesn't work the players out.
These guys are using the equipment better than they were before. They are running more than before, eating better than they were before.
They are using that world class facility the way it was built to be used.

Maximizing potential - the biggest failure of P and GDL. I truly think our guys can do some awesome things with the right guys pushing them (in the right ways). Hell, *I* would run through a wall for Diaco!

 

[BlueDogs]

I hate zone blocking. With a passion. Very difficult scheme.

Yup. Bad unless you have exceptionally fast (mentally and physically) lineman. Takes the fight right out of them. You want physically, explosive lineman who understand what the objective is without hesitation. It also requires backs with great vision, reading and cutback capability. Zone blocking is great for a few select teams that can recruit the cream of the crop.

 

[jackl]

What kind of question is that?
The facility doesn't work the players out.
These guys are using the equipment better than they were before. They are running more than before, eating better than they were before.
They are using that world class facility the way it was built to be used.

My point without calling out Jerry Martin was Just a big WTF.

 

[PUPPY4]

My point without calling out Jerry Martin was Just a big WTF.

Props to JM, he is a big part of the program, but time catches everybody.
Hopefully he keeps doing what he loves, if you have ever seen him give a tour of the weight room you can tell he put a lot into the place.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Before anyone goes over a ledge keep in mind that calling a blocking scheme zone blocking is similar to calling a coverage scheme a zone defense. Unless each lineman is specifically responsible for the guy lined up across from him it is not a man blocking scheme. The are power versions of a zone system and there are finesse versions. I have also discovered recently (within the past couple of seasons) that there is a version of a zone blocking scheme that does not have the linemen block anyone. GDL taught that scheme.

 

[PUPPY4]

Before anyone goes over a ledge keep in mind that calling a blocking scheme zone blocking is similar to calling a coverage scheme a zone defense. Unless each lineman is specifically responsible for the guy lined up across from him it is not a man blocking scheme. The are power versions of a zone system and there are finesse versions. I have also discovered recently (within the past couple of seasons) that there is a version of a zone blocking scheme that does not have the linemen block anyone. GDL taught that scheme.

I'm still laughing!!

 

[Carl Spackler]

Yup. Bad unless you have exceptionally fast (mentally and physically) lineman. Takes the fight right out of them. You want physically, explosive lineman who understand what the objective is without hesitation. It also requires backs with great vision, reading and cutback capability. Zone blocking is great for a few select teams that can recruit the cream of the crop.

Zone based blocking in offensive systems in division 1A are a lot more prevalent than you make them out to be. THe systems we used to run under Edsall are the minority. Players play fast mentally and physically when they are well prepared as individuals, as units within the team, and as a team as a whole. There is no unit on a team that is more important functioning as a group than as individuals than the OL. It takes a group that is physically prepared, mentally prepared and can communicate and get the job done under pressure of time and decision making in split seconds as a group. It's all preparation, then go out and do it.

Of course there are always talent differences that matter, but in American Athletic conference, I do not believe we are talent deficient to compete for a title.

 

[BlueDogs]

Zone based blocking in offensive systems in division 1A are a lot more prevalent than you make them out to be. THe systems we used to run under Edsall are the minority. Players play fast mentally and physically when they are well prepared as individuals, as units within the team, and as a team as a whole. There is no unit on a team that is more important functioning as a group than as individuals than the OL. It takes a group that is physically prepared, mentally prepared and can communicate and get the job done under pressure of time and decision making in split seconds as a group. It's all preparation, then go out and do it.

Of course there are always talent differences that matter, but in American Athletic conference, I do not believe we are talent deficient to compete for a title.

Good point on the relative talent. As has been noted by some here there are many fine cuts on what constitutes zone blocking. Intrinsically, there is some aspect of zone blocking in almost any scheme when adjustments occur before the snap. Assignments are realigned based on the defensive alignment shown, and adjustments are made in response to stunts that can be described as zone based. So, it is a matter of degree. If you see the scheme PGDL were pushing it was very much read on the fly based and you see that in the way the backs attacked the LOS by waiting and looking for holes to open often counter flow from the pistol. Clearly a static assignment based approach does not work in this day and age, but ad hoc on the fly offense does not work where the system requires faithful execution of undefined creativity in motion by O lineman. I'm sure Diaco will have the crew working well as a unit, and he already indicated he wants power football. Not worried about it.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Good news: Our new OC has written book chapters on teaching inside zone blocking. Bad news: Our old OC has written book chapters on teaching inside zone blocking.


Here's some Alex Gibbs zone blocking. Watch the backside tackles and guards chop down the defenders. Ugly. This is legal, but it's ugly, cheap football. Watch at about the 2:45 spot or so and then watch the whole thing. Ugly IMNSHO



Here's a good clip if teaching inside zone right and left blocking. Howard University coach. He's got his lineman bringing the flippers. LOL.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53BKUwiBD58

 

[PUPPY4]

Good news: Our new OC has written book chapters on teaching inside zone blocking. Bad news: Our old OC has written book chapters on teaching inside zone blocking.


Here's some Alex Gibbs zone blocking. Watch the backside tackles and guards chop down the defenders. Ugly. This is legal, but it's ugly, cheap football. Watch at about the 2:45 spot or so and then watch the whole thing. Ugly IMNSHO



Here's a good clip if teaching inside zone right and left blocking. Howard University coach. He's got his lineman bringing the flippers. LOL.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53BKUwiBD58

This is a different slant on zone blocking than what the last OC was running. I hope this what the team will be running this season. I will never forget seeing our linemen standing and looking for somebody to block or letting a defender blow passed because that wasn't his guy to block. SMH!

 

[uconnell]

ow about two UConn players blocking each other!

 

[BlueMAB]

Good news: Our new OC has written book chapters on teaching inside zone blocking. Bad news: Our old OC has written book chapters on teaching inside zone blocking.


Here's some Alex Gibbs zone blocking. Watch the backside tackles and guards chop down the defenders. Ugly. This is legal, but it's ugly, cheap football. Watch at about the 2:45 spot or so and then watch the whole thing. Ugly IMNSHO



Here's a good clip if teaching inside zone right and left blocking. Howard University coach. He's got his lineman bringing the flippers. LOL.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53BKUwiBD58

1:50-2:10 +/- was a cheap shot by the left guard. The center was engaged with the DT, and the LG dove at his legs.

I hope that's not what our guys are learning, you can end careers doing that, and that's definitely not legal.

The best line in that (paraphrasing)

"We don't block corners, we block safeties. We don't block corners, we make them tackle 'cause they are as sh---y tacklers in our league as they are in yours." LMAO

 

[Carl Spackler]

1:50-2:10 +/- was a cheap shot by the left guard. The center was engaged with the DT, and the LG dove at his legs.

I hope that's not what our guys are learning, you can end careers doing that, and that's definitely not legal.

Been pretty clear in these two pages and few posts that I do not like that style of offense, and only brought it up because somebody mentioned the Houston Texans, which to my knowledge is Alex Gibbs current place of employment.

I highly doubt that we're going to be teaching guys specifically to go for the legs - and I agree that a player that that blocks a defender below the waist, that is currently engaged with another blocker above the waist - should be called a penalty - if a referee/umpire sees it.

I looked, and if you're talking about the inside linebacker stunt play against the Bills, the center while contacting the defender who was zero tech (head up over center) -cant' tell if it's a LB or DT that was head up on the center.....Center isn't clearly engaged with the player and has his head out on the move to get out to the second level. The LG, in Gibbs system executes his block perfectly, taking out not one, but two backside defenders, because he got the LB, as well as the zero tech.

I don't like the system, I would hope that we're not teaching it, and having reviewed a little of MIke Cummings, because I knew nothign about him before, I would highly, highly doubt that we'd be using that kind of system to teach players to block and play offense as a unit.....but if you think for a second that linemen on the field won't take an opportunity when it's available and might be necessary to send a signal to take an opponent out low, and do it legally whether it be on offense or defense.....just to give a little "hey - what's up signal...", then.....well whatever. I want players that are going to win their battles on the field.

 

[BlueMAB]

I was just contributing to the conversation, not implying you approved of it, you made that very clear.

I don't mind if we take the opportunity to legally take a guy out by going low legally. That's football.

If we're able to run the ball half as well as that Broncos team, we're going to be in great shape.

 

[Palatine]

Coach Pasqualoni said all the right things, did all the wrong things.

Coach Diaco is saying all the right things.

I'm withholding judgement until the team plays.

 

[PUPPY4]

I was just contributing to the conversation, not implying you approved of it, you made that very clear.

I don't mind if we take the opportunity to legally take a guy out by going low legally. That's football.

If we're able to run the ball half as well as that Broncos team, we're going to be in great shape.

"Physical shape as well as mental shape"

 

[sdhusky]

The best line in that (paraphrasing)

"We don't block corners, we block safeties. We don't block corners, we make them tackle 'cause they are as sh---y tacklers in our league as they are in yours." LMAO

When Tomlinson was at his peak and Lorenzo Neal was his lead blocker, Neal would often ignore the first guy and take on the next guy because there weren't too many times a season the first guy got LT in the open field or even really slowed him down.

 

[BlueMAB]

Coach Pasqualoni said all the right things, did all the wrong things.

Coach Diaco is saying all the right things.

I'm withholding judgement until the team plays.

Diaco is saying them differently, saying them better, bringing about improvements, and talking about his plan for the program.

Pasqualoni talked about recruiting a different size athlete and sucking up to CTHS FB coaches.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

FWIW Alex Gibbs' version of zone blocking seemed to be closest to what GDL claimed he was implementing here. It also is a system that any view as being at a minimum borderline dirty.

I certainly hope that what we run going forward doesn't come within miles of resembling that version of zone blocking.

 

[Carl Spackler]

FWIW Alex Gibbs' version of zone blocking seemed to be closest to what GDL claimed he was implementing here. It also is a system that any view as being at a minimum borderline dirty.

I certainly hope that what we run going forward doesn't come within miles of resembling that version of zone blocking.

Whatever the former OC was doing wasn't working, and that's all there is to that, really - for me at least. I don't particularly recall seeing anything that looked like a Gibbs offensive line. Doesn't mean it wasn't what the old fart was potty mouthing about all day every day for 2 years.

Cut blocks have nothing to do with zone based offensive blocking schemes or man, or what - it's simply a technique to get a defender blocked and when done properly as it's supposed to be done, it's not particularly dangerous at all. Gibbs has his rep, because he's specifically coached players to go for the knees when they are diving. Mike Shanahan too.

When a smaller player is up against a much bigger player, like say a RB against a LB/DE, the cut block may be the only tool they've got to get the job done. But cut blocking by itself has nothing to do with 'zone' blocking.

Gibbs zone scheme works so effectively, because he requires at least two blockers on the backside of a run play to cut block the backside defender either at the LOS or the second level depending on the zone reads. By doing that, it effectively neutralizes the natural advantage that a defense has in a non-QB run play, and that's being 11 tacklers to 9 blockers. The effectiveness of the running system is also based off the threat of a QB bootleg, or play action, either running or passing - because it freezes the safety as well for a split second. So you take at least two backside defenders out at the legs, freeze a playside safety with the QB read for a second, and all of a sudden, you are 7 v 8 blockers to defenders, and the play side zone matchups have pushed the defense into a small area of the field, and you've got the rest of the field spread open with running lanes. The RB's that flourished with those offensive lines in Denver, and then Atlanta and now Houston aren't particularly gifted RB's respectively, all you need is adequate speed and adequate vision and if you've got 9 guys that can block it, you can run to daylight all day behind that kind of blocking.

THe problem is that it's hard to find players that are willing to put the targets on their own backs with that kind of blocking week in and week out.

I simply prefer not to intentionally put targets on our own players backs with their play on the field.

 

[PUPPY4]

Good news: Our new OC has written book chapters on teaching inside zone blocking. Bad news: Our old OC has written book chapters on teaching inside zone blocking.


Here's some Alex Gibbs zone blocking. Watch the backside tackles and guards chop down the defenders. Ugly. This is legal, but it's ugly, cheap football. Watch at about the 2:45 spot or so and then watch the whole thing. Ugly IMNSHO



Here's a good clip if teaching inside zone right and left blocking. Howard University coach. He's got his lineman bringing the flippers. LOL.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53BKUwiBD58

Take a good look at this video, this is most likey is what you'll be seeing.
Hopefully without the cheap cut blocks on the backside.
FWIW, I'll be trying to teach this to grooup of little rascals (8-12yrs) this summer

 

[PUPPY4]

This is a technique based blocking scheme, that uses double teams to move the playside defenders off the ball up to the next level.
The Backside blockers should be taught to reach block the defender the same as the playside, only cut block if the defender is too far to reach or beats your block.
There can be some car crashes when the LB's and S's are coming down hill to break up the run.
But the blockers are taught to split all defenders in half in order to gain leaverage inside or outside.
The Olinemen should be taught to use their hands in a rather violent movement to the defenders chest to gain movement and leaverage.

 

[Carl Spackler]

All I care is that whatever we do in practice, works on the game field. What our former OC was doing, was garbage. It's not worth calling whatever he was trying to implement anything else when it comes to systems/philosophy/strategy/tactics....etc....because it was nothing but garbage on game day. There is some kind of fear of zone blocking that emerged here and that's why I started writing. Probably a fear because the garbage that the former OC was doing, was labeled "zone" blocking.

Zone blocking concepts are widely used and accepted at all levels of football, and there are no time constraint issues with teaching it and coaching it, and it's not something "left to the pros" or where you have to recruit at some incredibly high exceptional level of athlete to do it. It actually fits well with the recruiting we've been doing for 2 years - theoretically. Time will tell how the players handle it all with new coaches. (there are time constraints with practice time in college football, when it comes to coaching and developing something like say....Two entirely unique base offensive packages for two different personnel groupings on offense, and then using them in games interchangeably....but I digress... )

The truth is that if you're blockers on the line of scrimmage have got concrete shoes, poor balance, weak head and hand placement - then cut blocks, and legal chop blocks.....and there are legal chop blocks.... is probably the best way to generate tactical advantage on offense, and systems don't matter - but if you can have some technical ability, and can stay upright across the board, you can do some good things on offense.

I'm hopeful that we don't have wide scope physical matchup and ability issues across the line of scrimmage in regards to our competition on the upcoming schedule. Only time will tell. It's been a solid 3 seasons now, that we haven't had big question marks around the offensive line, and I don't want it to go 4.