B1G

[DarthGrumpy]

They might have effects on the same television sets that watch the Red Sox and are looking for a college to cheer for in big time football.
This is not just about NYC, it's about 6 states.

For most folks in Boston, even some of their own Alumni, U Mass-Amherst is somewhere out west, maybe near Albany (NY)? The Hub's border ends around I-495 and Worcester. UConn mileage wise is actually closer. UMass gets no love from the TV networks nor the budget masters on Beacon Hill in Boston.

 

[Husky25]

For most folks in Boston, even some of their own Alumni, U Mass-Amherst is somewhere out west, maybe near Albany (NY)? The Hub's border ends around I-495 and Worcester. UConn mileage wise is actually closer. UMass gets no love from the TV networks nor the budget masters on Beacon Hill in Boston.

The Peak of 495 is not Worcester. It is Marlboro/Northborough/Westborough, 10 minutes east of Worcester.

 

[SubbaBub]

B1G has an absolutely no brainer decision to make yet the people in charge can't smell the cash right under their noses. If the B1G took in Rutgers for television sets, the why not go the next step. Take in UConn and Boston College (or UMass on spec.) Not only does it solidity its position in the NYC market it also gives them the added small benefit of creating a fan base for all of New England.

NE can't support two top FB programs. Fortunately for us, NE currently doesn't have one.

NJ pop. 9 M
PA pop. 13 M
NE pop. 14 M

Remove the outskirts of ME, NH, and VT, factor in the relative lack of CFB fans and you have space for exactly one flagship program. That would be us.

So, it's a no brainer to add UConn, but a fool's errand to take another. Only BC as a Pitt to our Penn State would make any sense. And we know the B1G has no interest in schools like Pitt.

 

[Kolumbo]

NE can't support two top FB programs. Fortunately for us, NE currently doesn't have one.

NJ pop. 9 M
PA pop. 13 M
NE pop. 14 M

Remove the outskirts of ME, NH, and VT, factor in the relative lack of CFB fans and you have space for exactly one flagship program. That would be us.

So, it's a no brainer to add UConn, but a fool's errand to take another. Only BC as a Pitt to our Penn State would make any sense. And we know the B1G has no interest in schools like Pitt.

I agree NE doesn't have one top program but I think NE can support two good programs. It's too bad the brain trust in boston is too narrow minded to understand why competition is much more valuable than none. I also think a UCONN in the B1G could be better than UCONN in the ACC rivalry-wise. Clemson-USC; Florida-FL State. Obviously UCONN-BC would not be at that level, but we are talking about regional rivalries. Clemson-USC is still a rivalry when those teams stink. UCONN-BC could be an annual house-filler although neither would be playing for a play-off spot.
Imagine UCONN fans flocking to Boston for UCONN-BC AND Yankees-Red Sox? What could have been.

 

[Husky25]

Imagine UCONN fans flocking to Boston for UCONN-BC AND Yankees-Red Sox? What could have been.

Non-Conference games are played in September. The Conference schedule wouldn't start until the end of September/beginning of October. Lining up a Sox/Yanks game the same weekend of a UConn/BC game would be a logistical nightmare. In addition, IF UConn were to be invited to the ACC, UConn would probably play BC on rivalry weekend in November.

 

[Kolumbo]

Non-Conference games are played in September. The Conference schedule wouldn't start until the end of September/beginning of October. Lining up a Sox/Yanks game the same weekend of a UConn/BC game would be a logistical nightmare. In addition, IF UConn were to be invited to the ACC, UConn would probably play BC on rivalry weekend in November.

So UCONN in the B1G would be the best outcome.
I don't know about logistical nightmare. Boston can handle it.

 

[Husky25]

So UCONN in the B1G would be the best outcome.

That would be my ideal, yes.

I don't know about logistical nightmare. Boston can handle it.

I'm not talking about the City of Boston. I'm referring to the schedule makers.

 

[pj]

Non-Conference games are played in September. The Conference schedule wouldn't start until the end of September/beginning of October. Lining up a Sox/Yanks game the same weekend of a UConn/BC game would be a logistical nightmare. In addition, IF UConn were to be invited to the ACC, UConn would probably play BC on rivalry weekend in November.

I don't know why the World Series doesn't ask for a UConn-BC warmup game. It would improve the event and solve your logistical worries.

 

[Husky25]

I don't know why the World Series doesn't ask for a UConn-BC warmup game. It would improve the event and solve your logistical worries.

About what in the Eatch-EE-Double hockey sticks are you referring?

Though they have been in the World Series 4 times in the last 10 years, doesn't mean the Sox will continue to advance that far every 2-3 years in the future.

 

[pj]

About what in the Eatch-EE-Double hockey sticks are you referring?

Though they have been in the World Series 4 times in the last 10 years, doesn't mean the Sox will continue to advance that far every 2-3 years in the future.

That's OK, I'm willing to play BC in San Francisco, Kansas City, or wherever if it's the warmup for the World Series.

 

[pnow15]

I have to believe that if UMass got into the B1G that it would be equivalent of UConn getting into the Big East. Everyone supports their state college especially when it plays important games in an important conference. UConn fans weren't all gang busters about the Yankee Conference. How many people live in Nebraska, Iowa? The B1G wants television sets. Games could not be played in Foxboro?
I think that New England is a large nearly virgin territory or big time college football. There just isn't team yet.

 

[CL82]

I have to believe that if UMass got into the B1G that it would be equivalent of UConn getting into the Big East. Everyone supports their state college especially when it plays important games in an important conference. UConn fans weren't all gang busters about the Yankee Conference. How many people live in Nebraska, Iowa? The B1G wants television sets. Games could not be played in Foxboro?
I think that New England is a large nearly virgin territory or big time college football. There just isn't team yet.

I suspect if Quinnipiac got into the B1G, it would improve their attendance as well and it's pretty much as likely as UMass getting in.

 

[Husky25]

I have to believe that if UMass got into the B1G that it would be equivalent of UConn getting into the Big East. Everyone supports their state college especially when it plays important games in an important conference. UConn fans weren't all gang busters about the Yankee Conference. How many people live in Nebraska, Iowa? The B1G wants television sets. Games could not be played in Foxboro?
I think that New England is a large nearly virgin territory or big time college football. There just isn't team yet.

IF UMass were to get into the Big Ten, it would be much bigger than UConn getting into the Big East in 1979, but I certainly wouldn't waste time worrying about it if I were you, because that is never happening.

Congress at the Commonwealth level do not support UMass like the State of CT supports UConn. Western Massachusetts might as well be Nebraska or Iowa in the their eyes. On top of the fact that UMass football is only Division 1A by the slimmest of margins. Their own administration does not support football and if the citizenry immediately surrounding the University does not care enough to get a Conference Tournament basketball game in which the institution is a direct participant on TV, exactly how many TV sets does The Big Ten gain?

 

[pnow15]

IF UMass were to get into the Big Ten, it would be much bigger than UConn getting into the Big East in 1979, but I certainly wouldn't waste time worrying about it if I were you, because that is never happening.

Congress at the Commonwealth level do not support UMass like the State of CT supports UConn. Western Massachusetts might as well be Nebraska or Iowa in the their eyes. On top of the fact that UMass football is only Division 1A by the slimmest of margins. Their own administration does not support football and if the citizenry immediately surrounding the University does not care enough to get a Conference Tournament basketball game in which the institution is a direct participant on TV, exactly how many TV sets does The Big Ten gain?

IF UMass were to get into the Big Ten, it would be much bigger than UConn getting into the Big East in 1979, but I certainly wouldn't waste time worrying about it if I were you, because that is never happening.

Your right. I don't know what I was thinking. No doubt that an 11-0 UMass or BC team playing 11-0 Ohio State would leave Gillette
stadium empty but for a few winos and not one of the 14 million televisions sets in New England would be turn on to watch.
In fact all 14 million sets will turned and tuned into a a session of the Congress of the Commonwealth.

 

[pj]

IF UMass were to get into the Big Ten, it would be much bigger than UConn getting into the Big East in 1979, but I certainly wouldn't waste time worrying about it if I were you, because that is never happening.

Congress at the Commonwealth level do not support UMass like the State of CT supports UConn. Western Massachusetts might as well be Nebraska or Iowa in the their eyes. On top of the fact that UMass football is only Division 1A by the slimmest of margins. Their own administration does not support football and if the citizenry immediately surrounding the University does not care enough to get a Conference Tournament basketball game in which the institution is a direct participant on TV, exactly how many TV sets does The Big Ten gain?

Massachusetts is like New Jersey, the politicians look at in-state institutions as treasure chests to raid for their friends and family. They put Billy Bulger in charge of the UMass system because he was so good at transferring money to the politicos. But the politicians wake up when an out-of-state entity like the B1G offers to transfer $45 mn a year or so of money into the state. They'll put aside their chiselling for a year or two to make that happen, in hope of supporting a few children and grandchildren off the revenue a decade later.

So New Jersey made Rutgers-to-the-B1G happen, and Massachusetts would be supportive of UMass-to-the-B1G. But the B1G doesn't need two schools in New England, the population base is centralized enough that UConn is within 2 hours of 90% of New England. And UConn is clearly superior to UMass.

 

[Husky25]

Your right. I don't know what I was thinking. No doubt that an 11-0 UMass or BC team playing 11-0 Ohio State would leave Gillette
stadium empty but for a few winos and not one of the 14 million televisions sets in New England would be turn on to watch.
In fact all 14 million sets will turned and tuned into a a session of the Congress of the Commonwealth.

I don't know what you are thinking either. Those are some pretty far-out-there hypotheticals.

Since Don Brown, UMass is 21-48 vs. both FCS and FBS competition, with only 5 wins vs. the latter. They have never gone undefeated in their history and have a .502 winning percentage. They are not even close to the Big Ten model. Their home stadium is almost 2 hours away and they averaged 15,000 fans in 2013.

But besides that, UMass is in great shape to meet your criteria for inclusion to the Big Ten.

 

[Husky25]

Massachusetts is like New Jersey, the politicians look at in-state institutions as treasure chests to raid for their friends and family. They put Billy Bulger in charge of the UMass system because he was so good at transferring money to the politicos. But the politicians wake up when an out-of-state entity like the B1G offers to transfer $45 mn a year or so of money into the state. They'll put aside their chiselling for a year or two to make that happen, in hope of supporting a few children and grandchildren off the revenue a decade later.

So New Jersey made Rutgers-to-the-B1G happen, and Massachusetts would be supportive of UMass-to-the-B1G. But the B1G doesn't need two schools in New England, the population base is centralized enough that UConn is within 2 hours of 90% of New England. And UConn is clearly superior to UMass.

The ground work needs to be laid now...at least in process. That is not the case in Western Massachusetts.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

The Peak of 495 is not Worcester. It is Marlboro/Northborough/Westborough, 10 minutes east of Worcester.

I know; but, the MBTA goes to Worcester. Thus, most Bostonians, not all, reluctantly acknowledge that Worcester is part of Massachusetts.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

FYI, Rutgers now has a master plan focused on 'reconnecting' to the Raritan River, which is notoriously flood prone, and fixing the state's 2nd largest bus network (and I thought UConn was spread-out landwise). I wonder if any of the B1G money is going to this. Better than my tax dollars.

http://www.northjersey.com/news/rutgers-unveils-long-range-master-plan-1.1263715

 

[buddy]

So UCONN in the B1G would be the best outcome.
I don't know about logistical nightmare. Boston can handle it.

When UConn gets to the B1G in 2026, then that will be the end of BC's terrific reputation as New England's team. Boneyarders should not be glorifying BC by saying how wonderful it would be for UConn to play them now or ever. They do not benefit UConn in any way. They are basically an afterthought now, but without a rivalry partner in New England, eventually they will fade away. People are not going to flock to Boston to see them play North Carolina, Virginia, Duke, or FSU in football. UConn's rivals in 2026 will be Rutgers, Michigan, Wisconsin, Penn State, etc. BCU will be a tune up game, if anything and I would make them pay UConn to play them. I only hope that I live long enough to see that day.

 

[Husky25]

I know; but, the MBTA goes to Worcester. Thus, most Bostonians, not all, reluctantly acknowledge that Worcester is part of Massachusetts.

The commuter line. Sort of like saying that Milford, CT is part of New York City.

P.S. I get what you mean. Just giving you . I grew up around there.

 

[husky210]

The world according to Boston

 

[CL82]

FYI, Rutgers now has a master plan focused on 'reconnecting' to the Raritan River, which is notoriously flood prone, and fixing the state's 2nd largest bus network (and I thought UConn was spread-out landwise). I wonder if any of the B1G money is going to this. Better than my tax dollars.

http://www.northjersey.com/news/rutgers-unveils-long-range-master-plan-1.1263715

It's not a bad plan, if they actually go through with it.

 

[DMountcastle]

NE can't support two top FB programs. Fortunately for us, NE currently doesn't have one.

NJ pop. 9 M
PA pop. 13 M
NE pop. 14 M

Remove the outskirts of ME, NH, and VT, factor in the relative lack of CFB fans and you have space for exactly one flagship program. That would be us.

So, it's a no brainer to add UConn, but a fool's errand to take another. Only BC as a Pitt to our Penn State would make any sense. And we know the B1G has no interest in schools like Pitt.

So let's just make it UConn and Kansas and call it a conference.

 

[CL82]

Massachusetts is like New Jersey, the politicians look at in-state institutions as treasure chests to raid for their friends and family. They put Billy Bulger in charge of the UMass system because he was so good at transferring money to the politicos. But the politicians wake up when an out-of-state entity like the B1G offers to transfer $45 mn a year or so of money into the state. They'll put aside their chiselling for a year or two to make that happen, in hope of supporting a few children and grandchildren off the revenue a decade later.

So New Jersey made Rutgers-to-the-B1G happen, and Massachusetts would be supportive of UMass-to-the-B1G. But the B1G doesn't need two schools in New England, the population base is centralized enough that UConn is within 2 hours of 90% of New England. And UConn is clearly superior to UMass.

The NJ legislature supports the state U, not like UConn but it does. The UMass legislature seems contemptuous of Amherst, at least it terms of their unwillingness to invest in it.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

The NJ legislature supports the state U, not like UConn but it does. The UMass legislature seems contemptuous of Amherst, at least it terms of their unwillingness to invest in it.

Most of Beacon Hill does not even know that UMass Amherst is even in the Commonwealt of Massachusetts. They just did pass a $1 Billion funding package; but, that is for the entire UMass system and a lot is going to UMass Lowell, whose President is very well connected politically, and UMass Boston, which is building its first on-campus residential complex that will serve as the athlete's village for the proposed 2024 Boston Olympics. Massachusetts is basically setting itself up to have a mini SUNY with several university hubs (Amherst, Lowell, Boston, Worcester/Medical) instead of a large, single flagship.

 

[upstater]

Most of Beacon Hill does not even know that UMass Amherst is even in the Commonwealt of Massachusetts. They just did pass a $1 Billion funding package; but, that is for the entire UMass system and a lot is going to UMass Lowell, whose President is very well connected politically, and UMass Boston, which is building its first on-campus residential complex that will serve as the athlete's village for the proposed 2024 Boston Olympics. Massachusetts is basically setting itself up to have a mini SUNY with several university hubs (Amherst, Lowell, Boston, Worcester/Medical) instead of a large, single flagship.

That's going to be near impossible to accomplish. You're talking about a state with 6 million residents. 50k students to go around. I can see 2 schools in that set becoming research universities, but definitely not more than that. Just not enough students to go around.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

That's going to be near impossible to accomplish. You're talking about a state with 6 million residents. 50k students to go around. I can see 2 schools in that set becoming research universities, but definitely not more than that. Just not enough students to go around.

Agree, was staying a SUNY like system in terms of structure, i.e. no central flagship university. I can see UMass Lowell approaching UMass Amherst in terms of research dollars and UMass Boston approaching UMass Amherst in enrollment numbers simply because it is based in Boston and its a heck of a lot cheaper than the other universities in the area (Harvard, MIT, BU, BC, Northeastern, Suffolk, Emerson, etc.)

 

[upstater]

Agree, was staying a SUNY like system in terms of structure, i.e. no central flagship university. I can see UMass Lowell approaching UMass Amherst in terms of research dollars and UMass Boston approaching UMass Amherst in enrollment numbers simply because it is based in Boston and its a heck of a lot cheaper than the other universities in the area (Harvard, MIT, BU, BC, Northeastern, Suffolk, Emerson, etc.)

UMass's advantage of course is that it has space, which UMass-Boston can't build into. A lot of schools that are already built have huge advantages.

When you look at a school like SUNY-Buffalo, for instance, it's double the size of a Binghamton, and it has 6x as much research funding as Stony Brook. It was built in a hideous swamp during the late 60s, early 70s. There is still a ton of space to build it downtown, but the move is absolutely prohibitive. This goes to show how unlikely if not impossible it is to build a research center from scratch.

 

[junglehusky]

I figured it might be time to bump this thread... even though it's already been posted I'll put Delany's interview here for future historians.