Avg. Basketball Attendance: Ucf 6,300 Houston 3,200 Smu 1,900

[Rumrunner]

No wonder Notre Dame is weighing whether to leave.

Those are the men's basketball average attendance figures, not the women's average.

 

[HuskyNan]

The numbers will go up dramatically when better competition comes to town. There's a huge difference between Houston vs UTEP and Houston vs UConn.

 

[CTpessimist]

Imagine if these schools were in the big east 8 years ago... we might not have had a national championship run with Emeka Okafor. The attendance figures at these schools would be huge!

 

[SAMCRO]

No wonder Notre Dame is weighing whether to leave.

Those are the men's basketball average attendance figures, not the women's averages.

I'm thinking GTown, UConn, L'ville, Nova, etc... will draw more fans than Rice, ECU, Tulane, S. Miss did for these teams. Just a hunch. I'm too lazy to look it up, but what is our home attendance when we play USF at home v. Playing Louisville or Nova at home.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Indeed. For those who say this doesn't weaken BE basketball, I sincerely disagree. I understand it must be done, but as I mentioned the other day, this new monstrosity will not be particularly strong at anything.

I really think we must break with the BB only schools ASAP. If we're going to be stuck in a bizarre cross-continental conference, then go all in. Leave the BE name to the Catholic schools and invite Notre Dame for all sports (they'll decline) as well as BYU. BYU prefers independence and WCC to the NBE, but they might like an all sports invite to this league. If WVU is pinned, see if we can convince them as well.

East: UConn, RU, Louisville, Cincy, SFU, CFU (+ND or WVU if possible)
West: Boise, SMU, Houston, Nevada, UNLV and BYU. If WVU is in, add Utah St., Colo St. or Wyoming.

If WVU was in, and Utah or CO St. is added, we're at 14 teams, and this is a very solid football conference. BYU and UNLV help keep the basketball profile high. Markets are pretty strong, Florida, TX, Tri-state, Vegas, SLC, Houston, Dallas.

 

[UCHuskies08]

Indeed. For those who say this doesn't weaken BE basketball, I sincerely disagree. I understand it must be done, but as I mentioned the other day, this new monstrosity will not be particularly strong at anything.

I really think we must break with the BB only schools ASAP. If we're going to be stuck in a bizarre cross-continental conference, then go all in. Leave the BE name to the Catholic schools and invite Notre Dame for all sports (they'll decline) as well as BYU. BYU prefers independence and WCC to the NBE, but they might like an all sports invite to this league. If WVU is pinned, see if we can convince them as well.

East: UConn, RU, Louisville, Cincy, SFU, CFU (+ND or WVU if possible)
West: Boise, SMU, Houston, Nevada, UNLV and BYU. If WVU is in, add Utah St., Colo St. or Wyoming.

If WVU was in, and Utah or CO St. is added, we're at 14 teams, and this is a very solid football conference. BYU and UNLV help keep the basketball profile high. Markets are pretty strong, Florida, TX, Tri-state, Vegas, SLC, Houston, Dallas.

No, that conference is dogshit in basketball. None of the schools want that.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Wait so you're concerned with weakening basketball...then advocate a split with the teams we'll already be playing football with, and basketball will suck even worse. Boise, corlorado st, wyoming? Are you serious?

 

[SAMCRO]

No, that conference is dogshit in basketball. None of the schools want that.

Agreed. If we were going to split, it was years ago with SyraPitt and WVU. That ship has sailed. Now we make the best of this, and work to improve the situation along withnposition ourselves for the next shuffle. The attendances for those CUSA schools will spike playing top Be teams, but doesn't change that the Bb side is weaker than last year.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Wait so you're concerned with weakening basketball...then advocate a split with the teams we'll already be playing football with, and basketball will suck even worse. Boise, corlorado st, wyoming? Are you serious?

Anything is better than playing in a 22 team league. It cannot possibly survive. The hybrid experiment needs to end. BYU and UNLV are as good as any remaining BE team other than Nova. Nevada is no worse than PC. Hell, add Villanova for football in the east bracket and this would be a better basketball league. How's this? I'm not going to like any of these bizarre leagues, but this is about the most tolerable I can find.

East: UConn, RU, Cincy, SFU, CFU, Villanova, Temple
West: Boise, SMU, Houston, Nevada, UNLV, Louisville, BYU.

 

[MattMang23]

Wyoming??? Hahahaha. Please forgive me for laughing but... Wyoming?????? Hahahahahahaha. Surely that suggestion was just for comic relief?

 

[businesslawyer]

Wait so you're concerned with weakening basketball...then advocate a split with the teams we'll already be playing football with, and basketball will suck even worse. Boise, corlorado st, wyoming? Are you serious?

Thank you. The thought of voluntarily splitting from the Catholics having lost Pitt, Syracuse and WVU is bizarre.

People -- we are not building a conference as part of a 20 year plan. We are trying to cobble something together that gets us through one BCS contact cycle while we wait for the Longhorn Network to be established so that when Texas shops itself everyone knows that the "deal" has to allow Texas to keep it. Then the world changes again.

 

[Hoophound]

These schools will compete. Decent athletes want to play at UCF and Houston. Both will recruit their home cities well and be successful. Not sure how SMU will do.

In answer to Biz in another thread. Rutgers hasn't prospered in the Big East because of the large number of solid programs within a few hundred miles of campus. Of course, a good coach will win anywhere so I guess that's ultimately all that matters. JC could win a national championship at Rutgers, they have just never hired the right guy.

 

[RS9999X]

People -- we are not building a conference as part of a 20 year plan. We are trying to cobble something together that gets us through one BCS contact cycle .

It's a not a conference, it s a scheduling arrangement of the best of the rest and subject to raids from the Big 5. Football is a different contract and managed separately from all other sports. 3 upper echelon teams are gone. 3 want out (RU, LU and UConn). ND is looking at options.

Wishing won't make it go away. Nothing will suprise me. Temple gets added and then in 2 years Nova upgrades and Memphis is added.

 

[Rumrunner]

First, I only care about basketball if it makes UConn football stronger and positions UConn for an invite into a conference that is geographically, academically and culturally more of a fit. That being said:

At some point dilution does matter. USF is still a horrible bb program in spite of SU,Pitt, and WVU coming to town.

Will the BE be able to export its brand to Houston, UCF and SMU, or will those schools import their brand into the BE?

There are now more CUSA basketball teams from CUSA (DePaul,UofL,Marquette,USF,UCF,SMU,UH) as original BE teams.

This is not the conference that Notre Dame signed up for. With the needed addition of one more school to get football to 12, that imbalance becomes even greater.

WHEN L'ville leaves for the Big 12, basketball becomes even weaker.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

First, I only care about basketball if it makes UConn football stronger and positions UConn for an invite into a conference that is geographically, academically and culturally more of a fit. That being said:

At some point dilution does matter. USF is still a horrible bb program in spite of SU,Pitt, and WVU coming to town.

Will the BE be able to export its brand to Houston, UCF and SMU, or will those schools import their brand into the BE?

There are now more CUSA basketball teams from CUSA (DePaul,UofL,Marquette,USF,UCF,SMU,UH) as original BE teams.

This is not the conference that Notre Dame signed up for. With the needed addition of one more school to get football to 12, that imbalance becomes even greater.

WHEN L'ville leaves for the Big 12, basketball becomes even weaker.

People get mad when I accuse a poster of wanting to shut the athletic program down, but how else am I supposed to read a post like this?

 

[metsfan2323]

UCF's average attendance of 6300 is actually quite impressive and is sure to improve. What was Seton Hall's average attendance last year when they were playing in the best conference in the country?

 

[businesslawyer]

People get mad when I accuse a poster of wanting to shut the athletic program down, but how else am I supposed to read a post like this?

You're not supposed to read it as that is what he's advocating because he isn't. He is saying as I read it "let's not sugar coat things -- we've gone downhill a lot as a conference in hoops." Well, duh.

Why does that need a response? I'm personally tired of posts that simply point out that things suck at the moment, but if they're accurate enough why bother responding?

We know that, if this plan works, we have kept our football league at a similar level to where it was, and have moved into bigger markets than those we've given up, but we have done so at the cost of geographic cohesion, the basketball league and loss of football prestige. As to basketball, we have gone from being the dominant conference to being a conference that is still, no question, a major conference, but is likely to be in the back half of the top 6 rather than at the top..It is what it is, and we know we want out and that it is not unrealistic to think we will get out when ND and/or Texas move again, which could be anywhere from today to six years.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I understand the frustrations. I hate the new Big East. I dislike the versions I proposed above as well. But, BYU is valuable and BYU won't give up their situation unless they get an all sports invite to a solid league. We cannot go all-sports with these western schools without adding enough of them to create a 6-7 team division. We cannot do that while retaining the remainders of the BE basketball only schools. Nevada has value in football and basketball. They are better than DePaul, PC and Seton Hall. BYU is strong at both. UNLV is strong at basketball and in a league like this would probably get even better.

I don't like the idea of building a conference that is designed to fail and is intended only as a stop-gap measure. Either we know and believe we'll get an invite to the ACC or B1G or we are pretty sure we won't. If we think the invite is coming, do nothing. Play with Pitt, Syracuse and WVU for two more years. If no invite is coming, the hybrid has to die, and we need to create an all-sports conference that can survive and retain AQ status over time. The one I proposed can, as much as I wouldn't be fond of it. The WVU lawsuit is right about one thing, the best interests of the BE members are not being served by continuation of this split league.

 

[businesslawyer]

I understand the frustrations. I hate the new Big East. I dislike the versions I proposed above as well. But, BYU is valuable and BYU won't give up their situation unless they get an all sports invite to a solid league. We cannot go all-sports with these western schools without adding enough of them to create a 6-7 team division. We cannot do that while retaining the remainders of the BE basketball only schools. Nevada has value in football and basketball. They are better than DePaul, PC and Seton Hall. BYU is strong at both. UNLV is strong at basketball and in a league like this would probably get even better.

I don't like the idea of building a conference that is designed to fail and is intended only as a stop-gap measure. Either we know and believe we'll get an invite to the ACC or B1G or we are pretty sure we won't. If we think the invite is coming, do nothing. Play with Pitt, Syracuse and WVU for two more years. If no invite is coming, the hybrid has to die, and we need to create an all-sports conference that can survive and retain AQ status over time. The one I proposed can, as much as I wouldn't be fond of it. The WVU lawsuit is right about one thing, the best interests of the BE members are not being served by continuation of this split league.

There is a major flaw in your post. There are schools who are more committed to the Big East than us, and they are not going to "do nothing" just because we're waiting for an invitation. Whatever is done is a compromise by everybody.

 

[HartbeatHusky]

I don't like the idea of building a conference that is designed to fail and is intended only as a stop-gap measure. Either we know and believe we'll get an invite to the ACC or B1G or we are pretty sure we won't. If we think the invite is coming, do nothing. Play with Pitt, Syracuse and WVU for two more years. If no invite is coming, the hybrid has to die, and we need to create an all-sports conference that can survive and retain AQ status over time. The one I proposed can, as much as I wouldn't be fond of it. The WVU lawsuit is right about one thing, the best interests of the BE members are not being served by continuation of this split league.

I agree with not wanting to be in a league that is designed to fail but I still feel like at this point the basketball schools are too valuable to the Big East brand to simply jettison. I propose either we double down on the hybrid model and invite western bball onlies for the western division like Gonzaga and Butler and shift Marquette and DePaul to the western division or we do pods or a round robin and don't invite any more basketball onlies. Either way, there are ways to solidify this league and make it work, if that is the intent. They will just have to get creative.

 

[HuskyHawk]

There is a major flaw in your post. There are schools who are more committed to the Big East than us, and they are not going to "do nothing" just because we're waiting for an invitation. Whatever is done is a compromise by everybody.

There is a flaw in that approach in my opinion. Compromises between the BB and FB schools hurt both. I completely understand why the BB schools don't want CFU, Houston and SMU. I completely understand why the FB schools need them. I understand why the BB schools wanted DePaul and Marquette, but adding them hurt expansion of the FB conference. We know how the Villanova saga has played out. I'd argue that adding SFU has been negative for the BB onlies, and increased travel costs.

 

[UCHuskies08]

Anything is better than playing in a 22 team league. It cannot possibly survive. The hybrid experiment needs to end. BYU and UNLV are as good as any remaining BE team other than Nova. Nevada is no worse than PC. Hell, add Villanova for football in the east bracket and this would be a better basketball league. How's this? I'm not going to like any of these bizarre leagues, but this is about the most tolerable I can find.

East: UConn, RU, Cincy, SFU, CFU, Villanova, Temple
West: Boise, SMU, Houston, Nevada, UNLV, Louisville, BYU.

no, no, no, no, no, no, no...

 

[Rumrunner]

Some would argue that no matter the makeup of the Big East, Notre Dame stays.

The addition of UCF, SMU, and UH added very little "insitutional value", that is marquee names, either garnered academically or athletically. Exchanging Pitt, SU and WVU for UCF, SMU, and UH (and the rest of the football only schools) may be a net positive for the football side of the equation, but for Notre Dame it is trading a known commodity for a lot of..."potential."

Does Notre Dame stick around to see if UCF and SMU are just another way to say USF and DePaul? Gamble on Rutgers reversing 2,000 years of history with Mike Rice? USF "turning the corner"? DePaul capturing Chicago's recruits? Seton Hall finding ten cents for its athletic department? St. John's to stop being a train wreck? PC has their Randy Edsall, maybe now they'll supplant UConn...cough cough. Now gamble on SMU, UCF and Houston to do the same "tomorrow will be different because...." chant?

 

[HuskyHawk]

Some would argue that no matter the makeup of the Big East, Notre Dame stays.

The addition of UCF, SMU, and UH added very little "insitutional value", that is marquee names, either garnered academically or athletically. Exchanging Pitt, SU and WVU for UCF, SMU, and UH (and the rest of the football only schools) may be a net positive for the football side of the equation, but for Notre Dame it is trading a known commodity for a lot of..."potential."

Does Notre Dame stick around to see if UCF and SMU are just another way to say USF and DePaul? Gamble on Rutgers reversing 2,000 years of history with Ray Rice? USF "turning the corner"? DePaul capturing Chicago's recruits? Seton Hall finding ten cents for its athletic department? St. John's to stop being a train wreck? PC has their Randy Edsall, maybe now they'll supplant UConn...cough cough. Now gamble on SMU, UCF and Houston to do the same "tomorrow will be different because...." chant?

I suspect that ND will not like this new monster league much at all. They know that the two playmates they value most, UConn and Louisville, are also trying to leave. The reality is that by diluting the BE basketball league with CFU, UH and SMU, we all but force ND to go elsewhere. A split, where the BE adds Xavier, Butler and St. Joes....more appealing for ND to stay independent.

By the way, if UConn and UL leave then what? There is no way in hell that the current Catholic schools want to continue with SFU, CFU, UH and SMU. They will break off. The new schools and BE FB schools with no soft landing will need to form a new league, and probably can keep the BE AQ status. This is the inevitable outcome in my opinion.

 

[businesslawyer]

I suspect that ND will not like this new monster league much at all. They know that the two playmates they value most, UConn and Louisville, are also trying to leave. The reality is that by diluting the BE basketball league with CFU, UH and SMU, we all but force ND to go elsewhere. A split, where the BE adds Xavier, Butler and St. Joes....more appealing for ND to stay independent.

By the way, if UConn and UL leave then what? There is no way in hell that the current Catholic schools want to continue with SFU, CFU, UH and SMU. They will break off. The new schools and BE FB schools with no soft landing will need to form a new league, and probably can keep the BE AQ status. This is the inevitable outcome in my opinion.

1. The hoopsters have said they are gone if either LV or UConn leaves. I have no reason not to take them at their word.

2. ND is gone. It may take a year, but they are not staying. ND doesn't play football in this league, and for all other sports this league got a lot uglier. Would they go with the catholics? I have doubts, but I don't rule it out either.