Arms Race

[Windham4th]

Local officials and residents for years were opposed to Storrs center development. But now there are many businesses, restaurants and housing units across from EO Smith High School. From what I see a lot of locals shop and buy food there. I suspect the locals would also be among the fans attending UConn football games in an on-campus stadium. It's also possible that local cops can prevent traffic from going on Route 195 through Mansfield Center during. before and after the games and have motorists use other routes. Especially, if they put the new stadium on Discovery Drive which heads up to Route 44, it would not have a drastic impact on Mansfield Center traffic. Plus, there are only six or so home games a year. Not a huge impact on the local residents. The state can hand the Rent over to Central CT State Univ's football team rather than knocking it down.

Says a person who probably doesn't live near Storrs...

 

[FfldCntyFan]

While I am not a financial guy at all...There is a misunderstanding, I think, of how some so called private equity funding is being viewed in terms of CFB funding...The groups that were mentioned in a link anyway....(Wetherford Group, etc)..

It's private credit that they are offering. They're not taking an ownership stake (equity) but are instead taking a percentage of the upside in basically what amounts to an annual distribution. where if true private equity, they might take annual distributions, but also take an equity ownership position.

There are other ways to fund...UCF is receiving $88 million from Orange County to improve their stadium...

Orange County gets the $$ from soaking tourists...

Tourist Development Tax revenue is amassed through tourism funds coming into Orange County, specifically a 6% tax on hotel stays and other short-term rentals in the county. The funds are then redistributed to fund tourism-related expenditures, such as sports venues, convention centers, the arts and other facilities that in turn promote more tourism within Orange County. The $88 million grant will be drawn from excess revenues of the Tourist Development Tax over the course of nine years.

I am a financial guy (have been for four decades) and I know all too well from what I've seen over the years that there is no way something like this could possibly end well for the schools.

I've seen numerous, ultra sophisticated structures that on the surface appear to be a win-win but contain terms and conditions (referred to in the Industry as blockers) that are designed to eat up excess proceeds at a level that the PE firm will always be assured a favorable return while the partner will see almost nothing beyond a minimal return if the venture performs well and will owe future earnings (at a rate bordering usury) on any current period that does not perform to projections.

Think of the scenes from Goodfellas when the restaurant owner took on Paulie as a partner, only to have him slowly take everything away and then burn it down for insurance money. This is basically what PE firms do, only it appears to be on the up and up.

 

[billybud]

This is classic. Yes, it will be credit but what will be required almost certainly is a public surety that will back the debt with full faith and credit. This will essentially limit credit risk while charging higher asymmetric finance rates this arbitraging the credit risk to rate deferential. There is no way in hell they will finance any single purpose infrastructure without a guaranteed revenue stream. It’s a neat way to fleece taxpayers. PE firms doing public private partnership deals is just legalized public theft.

A Classis misunderstanding...

You are confusing this with the letting of bonds...which has been the way. And still is the way for financing infrastructure.

It is signing on a partner to grow revenue...That partner will share in any revenue growth and will act as an advisor in how to grow revenue.

After all, they do have an incentive to see increases in a department’s revenue: They earn a percentage on any new annual growth. Over a 10- to 20-year period, that percentage decreases from, perhaps, 22% in the first few years to 2% by its end, as the firm meets its original principal investment. Weatherford describes this as taking a “revenue royalty.”

If there is no growth, the firm does not take a cut.

“They are not mandated to pay us back the money we give them,” Weatherford said.

 

[billybud]

Seminole Boosters, a DSO under Florida law...has created and owns FSU College Town...

Hotel, restaurants, apartments, retail shopping....they are experienced in partnerships...

The Athletic Department is incorporated and is separate from the university in structure.

Different from many states. Whether they enter into a partnership is yet undetermined, but they are studying it.

Gallery | FSU Collegetown

This page contains a gallery of photos for FSU Collegetown.

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Eat, Drink, Shop & Stay | FSU Collegetown

Come eat, drink, and shop at the many retail shops in FSU Collegetown.

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[FfldCntyFan]

A Classis misunderstanding...

You are confusing this with the letting of bonds...which has been the way. And still is the way for financing infrastructure.

It is signing on a partner to grow revenue...That partner will share in any revenue growth and will act as an advisor in how to grow revenue.

After all, they do have an incentive to see increases in a department’s revenue: They earn a percentage on any new annual growth. Over a 10- to 20-year period, that percentage decreases from, perhaps, 22% in the first few years to 2% by its end, as the firm meets its original principal investment. Weatherford describes this as taking a “revenue royalty.”

If there is no growth, the firm does not take a cut.

“They are not mandated to pay us back the money we give them,” Weatherford said.

Billy,

For your sake I hope FSU stays the hell away from PE firms as you (and FSU) will rule the day this was even considered.

You likely overlooked the part if that article that stated this is not charity as the PE firm is in business to make a profit.

Ask yourself this question:

How can a private investment firm possibly know better on how to grow revenue in intercollegiate sports than those who have been professionals in the business for decades?

I've seen far too much of this in far too many industries and the first thing that happens is everything involved is reduced to dollars and cents, evaluated on how it performs based on proforma requirements, then the basic soul (anything personal and intangible about the product/company) is removed.

The firm then ensures that they will reach their investment goals regardless of what it costs the investee.

I've seen some very savvy companies lose everything to some of these firms (and basically being forced to thank them in the process of being bent over and violated). I cannot imagine a public institution being anything more than cannon fodder for a PE firm.

 

[billybud]

I might also ask...how does a Booster organization know how to obtain valuable real estate adjacent to a college and successfully develop it into a destination ?

UConn is unlike Florida schools in some ways....The Athletic Departments of FSU, UCF, USF etc are incorporated as an entity separate from the university and operate much differently.

Partnerships & Advertising / Vinik Sports Group​

Through a rare and unique partnership, Vinik Sports Group (VSG) represents and operates partnerships on behalf of USF Athletics.

Whether your brand is looking for amplified exposure, increased traffic and sales, enhanced image or simply wants to be a larger part of the blossoming Tampa Bay community, our team specializes in bringing partnerships to life. Raymond James Stadium (USF Football) and the Yuengling Center (USF Basketball) offer endless opportunities, and we’re happy to work with you to develop partnership solutions meeting your needs and propelling your brand.

 

[CL82]

I would be against it. Why ruin a nice rural part of Connecticut for mediocre football at best. Plus the fact that Storrs is hard to get to would be another. Bulldozing hundreds of home to create a highway/widening roads would be a 25 year legal battle and would cost the state probably over a billion dollars (guessing on time frames and amounts, but what I mean is it will be hell of allot more than just building a stadium) Imagine 40K people descending on the infrastructure of Storrs and surrounding areas without major updates.

Where do you imagine that "hundreds of homes will need to be bulldozed"?

Why do you believe that roads need to be widened for six Saturdays a year of activity?

There's this new thing they do in college football called "tailgating" which allows people to arrive and leave at different times. The notion that you need a limited access highway that runs right up to the front gate is a fallacy and not the case with the vast majority of stadiums all across America.

But other than that...

 

[CL82]

Local officials and residents for years were opposed to Storrs center development. But now there are many businesses, restaurants and housing units across from EO Smith High School. From what I see a lot of locals shop and buy food there. I suspect the locals would also be among the fans attending UConn football games in an on-campus stadium. It's also possible that local cops can prevent traffic from going on Route 195 through Mansfield Center during. before and after the games and have motorists use other routes. Especially, if they put the new stadium on Discovery Drive which heads up to Route 44, it would not have a drastic impact on Mansfield Center traffic. Plus, there are only six or so home games a year. Not a huge impact on the local residents. The state can hand the Rent over to Central CT State Univ's football team rather than knocking it down.

Even if you put the new stadium in the athletic campus, where I think it logically belongs, you could make Hillside one way at the start and end of the games and direct traffic out Discovery Drive. For what it's worth, I would guess you would split the traffic traffic sending some down 195 and others up to 44.

 

[CCSUblue]

The state can hand the Rent over to Central CT State Univ's football team rather than knocking it down.

Central doesn't want it, Central doesn't need it. They play FCS football. Do you know anything about Connecticut?

 

[Windham4th]

Maybe we should get the Patriots to move to CT...

 

[LoyalFanCT]

Central doesn't want it, Central doesn't need it. They play FCS football. Do you know anything about Connecticut?

Speaking of Connecticut, the Yale Bowl seats about 70,000. They play FCS football. Do you see a demolition company knocking down the Yale Bowl? Central like UConn should be improving their football program.

 

[CL82]

Central doesn't want it, Central doesn't need it. They play FCS football. Do you know anything about Connecticut?

He's just trying to elevate an instate school.

 

[UCFBfan]

I'm not sure that the price tag for renovations at Beaver Stadium is representative of the costs that UConn would incur to update The Rent. First and foremost, Beaver Stadium is over twice the capacity of The Rent. It is also an older structure badly in need of infrastructure updates that go far beyond cosmetic. I'm talking narrow concourses, p*** troughs and no hot water in the bathrooms, an ancient press box, far too little in terms of luxury boxes or premium seating. These needs have to be addressed in order to host potential playoff games.

While addressing these legit issues the school decided to improve the facade of the building to make it both more cosmetically appealing and technologically relevant to the era that we are currently living in. Penn Staters are a bit split on this, as many appreciate the aesthetic of the old gray battleship rising up out of the rolling pastureland that surrounds it. That will take some getting used to for sure, but ultimately it's for the best. The rent obviously needs maintenance, but adding additional seating and improving technology in the stadium would be a fraction of the cost of building a new stadium on campus.

Ah the pee troughs.....some of my fondest memories growing up and going to games. That and having my seat (numbered spot on the bleacher) get smaller and smaller each year.

In the end, the environment inside is just unreal when you go to games against big time opponents especially. PSU-OSU on a Saturday night was electric when I went many years ago.

 

[Duncan Idaho]

Even if you put the new stadium in the athletic campus, where I think it logically belongs, you could make Hillside one way at the start and end of the games and direct traffic out Discovery Drive. For what it's worth, I would guess you would split the traffic traffic sending some down 195 and others up to 44.

May be mistaken but I had always made a UConn on campus FBS stadium comparison to West Point.

 

[CL82]

May be mistaken but I had always made a UConn on campus FBS stadium comparison to West Point.

Same. Rutgers is another good comparison. The roads around that stadium back up every day just from normal work traffic. Yet somehow they manage to get 52K in and out of Piscataway 6 times a year.

 

[AllHusky]

Ah the pee troughs.....some of my fondest memories growing up and going to games. That and having my seat (numbered spot on the bleacher) get smaller and smaller each year.

In the end, the environment inside is just unreal when you go to games against big time opponents especially. PSU-OSU on a Saturday night was electric when I went many years ago.

Went to Rutgers Penn St when Beaver was still 77,000 seats and Rutgers was still an Independent.

"We are Penn State" 10x in a row by 77k and the Rutgers fans looked like they wanted to go home. Awesome!!

 

[AllHusky]

Same. Rutgers is another good comparison. The roads around that stadium back up every day just from normal work traffic. Yet somehow they manage to get 52K in and out of Piscataway 6 times a year.

The students just walk across the bridge from Queens campus and many of them are already on Busch/Livingston. So 10k students walking?? Maybe UConn gets 7k if we win?

 

[CL82]

Went to Rutgers Penn St when Beaver was still 77,000 seats and Rutgers was still an Independent.

"We are Penn State" 10x in a row by 77k and the Rutgers fans looked like they wanted to go home. Awesome!!

Being a Penn State fan is like being in a cult, and I say that with respect not withstanding the collateral issues with Paterno and Sandusky.

 

[CL82]

The students just walk across the bridge from Queens campus and many of them are already on Busch/Livingston. So 10k students walking?? Maybe UConn gets 7k if we win?

Well, in UConn students' defense, it is a considerably longer walk to Rentschler Field.

For what it's worth Rutgers stadium is really more "adjacent to campus" than "on campus". Still a much better situation than ours, though.

 

[AllHusky]

Being a Penn State fan is like being in a cult, and I say that with respect not withstanding the collateral issues with Paterno and Sandusky.

Absolutely, was in Central PA for a couple of years, and every little mall has a Penn St merch store with life sized JoPa(say JoPa in hushed tones) cardboard cutout at the door.

 

[AllHusky]

Well, in UConn students' defense, it is a considerably longer walk to Rentschler Field.

For what it's worth Rutgers stadium is really more "adjacent to campus" than "on campus". Still a much better situation than ours, though.

I thought we were fantasizing about UConn stadium on campus?

Busch/Livingston houses far more students than the old Queens campus for Rutgers, and is on the same side of the river as FB Stadium..

 

[Ldandy]

Being a Penn State fan is like being in a cult, and I say that with respect not withstanding the collateral issues with Paterno and Sandusky.

This is Rutgers or Pitt type talk. They use it as a go to insult when their sub-par fandom is called into question. Not sure why UConn Fans would buy into that losing mentality as you seem to parallel Penn State in many ways as a strong public school with a diverse and successful AD. Both schools have strong Ag backgrounds as well.

Their fans don't understand what it means to be passionate about sports because they have nothing to be passionate about. They are bad to middling at just about everything. Only a few of them truly care, and even that group may be more passionate about their "rival" losing than their teams winning.

 

[UCFBfan]

Being a Penn State fan is like being in a cult, and I say that with respect not withstanding the collateral issues with Paterno and Sandusky.

My father had a bumper sticker he put in our garage that said "If God wasn't a Penn State fan, why is the sky Blue and White?" If that doesn't show the devotion to this fandom, I don't know what does.

 

[CL82]

This is Rutgers or Pitt type talk. They use it as a go to insult when their sub-par fandom is called into question. Not sure why UConn Fans would buy into that losing mentality as you seem to parallel Penn State in many ways as a strong public school with a diverse and successful AD. Both schools have strong Ag backgrounds as well.

Their fans don't understand what it means to be passionate about sports because they have nothing to be passionate about. They are bad to middling at just about everything. Only a few of them truly care, and even that group may be more passionate about their "rival" losing than their teams winning.

Go back and reread my post. Not sure what triggered you so that you missed "and I say that with respect."

 

[CL82]

I thought we were fantasizing about UConn stadium on campus?

Busch/Livingston houses far more students than the old Queens campus for Rutgers, and is on the same side of the river as FB Stadium..

Just making the point that if the campus was on stadium you would see a better student turnout. Having to queue up and get on buses and drive to East Hartford they have to queue up and get on buses to come back is a disincentive to our students to attend games.

So when you compare our student turnout versus a school with an on campus (or Rutgers case campus-adjacent) stadium it's not an apples to apples comparison.

(Also keep in mind that we are going to need to reestablish the tradition of students attending games, even when we are on campus, because it's been over a decade since there's been football in Storrs. Being a fan, like many other things is a learned behavior that builds on itself over time.)

 

[maple]

While I’ve never been inside the PSU stadium, I’ve been by it and thought it dominated the surrounding landscape, not in a nice way.

I happened to be in the area once for work and saw it. Couldn't describe it any better than that.

 

[CL82]

I happened to be in the area once for work and saw it. Couldn't describe it any better than that..

I had to laugh when I read the "dominated the surrounding landscape" line. 100,000 seat football stadiums aren't exactly subtle. It is in the middle of their athletic campus and it is surrounded by parking. It's not like it's located on their equivalent of Horsebarn Hill.

Kind of a weird take in my view.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

Even if some consultants tell us to spend $200 to $300M on the Rent (which is a conservative estimate) to provide UConn an up to date Power 4 stadium, would you rather put it into an aging complex located 40 minutes or more away from the campus or would you rather spend a bit more and get a complex that students could walk to and could be used for a single university graduation.

It would definitely help recruiting in all field sports except baseball and softball, if the design included those other sports. Men’s and women’s soccer would definitely benefit, field hockey, lacrosse, track & field, graduation festivities, etc.

 

[HuskyDogArt]

The price tag gives an idea how much is involved to turn the Rent into a Power 4 stadium. Much better to build a new stadium in Storrs.

Mansfield will never let it happen. Look at the roads leading to UConn, think Mansfield would approve expanding the roads?

 

[giddyup]

I think you can keep the area rural and built a stadium. What is required is building into the earth instead of up and adding a classic coliseum design with brick, ivy, proper landscape it with trees instead of stripping everything for ease. You get buy-in from many.

195 doesn’t need to widened. It’s just needs a better traffic flow. Many stadiums are a pain to get to.

If they built it right it could be a real iconic jewel that people would love to play at.