Arkansas-Lady Vols

[UConnChapette]

I have always disliked Pat Summit and Tennessee - while still having a great deal of respect for what the coach and program has accomplished. Pat's (oops, the SEC's) shenanigans over ESPNgate-FrenchFrygate-Boneyardgate-postergate sealed the deal for me. Seeing Tennessee struggle always brought a smile to my face. No more.

The emotional burden those players must face day in and day out going to practice and playing in games and seeing their coach, substitute parent and mentor slowly decline and be less involved, what the coaching staff - and yes, Pat herself - must be going through is simply heartbreaking. I take no joy in their struggles and losses. I have almost begun - on some level - to see them as an underdog, and I usually root for the underdog all things being equal. Never did I ever think I would wish Tennessee well. But these are extraordinary times, and I find my attitude mellowing.

Don't get me wrong....I am not going so far as to say that if UConn can't win the NC that Tennessee does. I haven't gone that far over to the dark side. But the Tennessee players have faced a truly difficult season on many fronts. I can't help but wish them well in their remaining games.

For the sake of the UT program, I hope someone in the Athletic Department has the courage to sit down with Pat and gently tell her if she truly loves the program, it is time she steps down so the program can regain its footing and move forward. The longer that is prolonged, the longer Tennessee's struggles will continue. Pat deserves better, the players deserve better and yes, I'll go there, the fans deserve better.

 

[rbny1]

I too gloat over every UTenn loss. However, I have zero animosity towards the players and I never have had any "hate" when it came to the players - well maybe just a teensy bit for Parker.

I gloat because I dislike the program and I really dislike the head coach and her staff, but mostly I gloat because I absolutely detest most of the orange crowd that hangs out over there. It makes me feel good to see them miserable.

Does that make me a bad person?

Yes, it does. But I agree with everything you wrote and am pleased to be bad also.

 

[alexrgct]

Your girl Margo is on fire today. Awesome:

 

[arty155]

well, to me it's just been the perfect storm for disaster. the older players are passive, the coaching by committee is not working, and the program has had many injuries over the last couple of years. pat's illness was the final straw. that being said, every program has a down turn....keep in mind that UT is THE top sports priority in the state. the governor and many of the board of trustees and donors are very close family friends of Pat. they will fix this with money and a top notch coach. this will pass and us LV fans will be a bit more humbled than we have been in the past.

- Good points, once again. Except I entirely disagree about blaming senior players as passive.
- Of course, coaches, not players, are the senior leaders in WCBB. I base my assessment of coaches on their effectiveness in fulfilling the fundamental responsibilities of every leader, in every vocation: to Lead, Teach, Correct, Care for, and Motivate every day.
-And while assessing and critiquing things like motivation is an everyday activity for leaders, ultimately , the coaching leadership either effectively corrects such a basic issue in short order, or they fail to.
- I happen to think there has never been a problem with the potential, or demonstrated motivation of the present senior players – just as there never was with similar exemplary young women last year like Bjorklund.
- As fans, half the fun is honesty disagreeing on nuances in a game. But as a leader, when I continue hearing the mantra that senior team members show inadequate motivation… I think coaches, and now fans alike are looking in the wrong place for the root cause of any motivation issues (real or not). Senior team members? Young women of their caliber? No, and I do not even accept they have shared responsibility there. Not for any percieved problem lasting this long.I think their experienced coaching staff remains off target in using that throw-away line about motivation way too often.
Hey, I really enjoy watching rivals/ former rivals lose. But it’s never fun watching young players/players reputations getting hammered over and over for something they do not deserve. They’ve looked plenty motivated to me.

 

[RadyLady]

I think that she is a good get. She certainly has proved her heart and determination

 

[RockyMTblue2]

If you have watched the UT program long enough, then you know it is a fascinating case study in stubborness in game strategy and ball movement. Candace Parker and a certain JUCO guard transferee hid the worst of these issues for a time, but they have both surfaced and deepened over the last two years. There is, to me, a certain sad similarity to Tennessee's and Rutger's plight. This year we struggle with youth and a missing piece, but talent and sound coaching philosophy keep us relevant. I would like to see both RU and Tennessee more relevant. I'll still "hate them" in the childish fan way we relish, but I'd still like the programs to get back to where they were.

 

[trb123]

Time was when LVol players would have an asterisk against their names because they never own a national championship.

Time is when LVol players would have an asterisk against their names because they never went to a Final four. It is a little too early to talk about that. This bunch of HS All Americans at UTN may go all the way.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

I would not rule it out trb123 ... look at the UConn men last year as proof of that!

 

[speedoo]

Time was when LVol players would have an asterisk against their names because they never own a national championship.

Time is when LVol players would have an asterisk against their names because they never went to a Final four. It is a little too early to talk about that. This bunch of HS All Americans at UTN may go all the way.

They would be lucky to get to the Sweet 16 IMO. They are a bad defensive team and their guard play is poor overall, so they are missing two of the ingredients required for success in the NCAA tournament and they cannot fix those problems.

 

[Icebear]

They would be lucky to get to the Sweet 16 IMO. They are a bad defensive team and their guard play is poor overall, so they are missing two of the ingredients required for success in the NCAA tournament and they cannot fix those problems.

Unlike 1997 when the fixes were the return of Holdsclaw and Jolie there are no All-Americans returning to the line up for them.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

So there can be no Cinderella run for the Lady Vols? There are no miracles Braer Bear? Just sayin' mojo is a Big Lady with a Bad Temper.

 

[Icebear]

So there can be no Cinderella run for the Lady Vols? There are no miracles Braer Bear? Just sayin' mojo is a Big Lady with a Bad Temper.

I do not perceive any mojo fixes big enough to bail out this years situation for TN. I see then as an Elite Eight team at best. I have been persistent in that expectation since the beginning of the season. No mojo involved.

 

[Bestiarius]

I would like to see both RU and Tennessee more relevant. I'll still "hate them" in the childish fan way we relish, but I'd still like the programs to get back to where they were.

Why? I think it would be more fun if a team like Pitt rose to prominence, similar to what Delaware is doing.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Delaware will slip beneath the waves of the Atlantic as EDD departs. But I do agree in principle with the notion that new entrants to a clan of consistently competitive programs are a good thing. Suspect you were not following WCBB in the delicious era of "who do you hate more" as a Husky Fan RU or UT. It was great fun.

 

[trb123]

They would be lucky to get to the Sweet 16 IMO. They are a bad defensive team and their guard play is poor overall, so they are missing two of the ingredients required for success in the NCAA tournament and they cannot fix those problems.

Who are you that dare cast aspersion on the LVols?

Don't you know that you may be reported to the FBI?

 

[DaddyChoc]

I do not perceive any mojo fixes big enough to bail out this years situation for TN. I see then as an Elite Eight team at best. I have been persistent in that expectation since the beginning of the season. No mojo involved.

some here are saying thats how far UConn will go this season

 

[Icebear]

some here are saying thats how far UConn will go this season

Yes, some are but I always expected this year to be a FF team and those people expected a rebuilding year. The fans at TN were expecting a championship year and less than the 3 losses of last year. Very different expectations and results.

 

[BigO]

Yes, some are but I always expected this year to be a FF team and those people expected a rebuilding year. The fans at TN were expecting a championship year and less than the 3 losses of last year. Very different expectations and results.

it's a weird year for TN..if we can somehow start playing within our capabilities...then yes we are def a FF team. we showed that we can beat baylor on the right day.....HOWEVER-----in all my years of watching the LV teams, i have never seen such a hot and cold team. it's just the wrong mix of girls playing together. pat has had a hard time with most of them for years....not really a surprise to many of us. we will have 17,000 fans at sunday's game.....LV fans are not going to give up and there will always be great recruits who want to play in that environment. the future will work out.

 

[Icebear]

it's a weird year for TN..if we can somehow start playing within our capabilities...then yes we are def a FF team. we showed that we can beat baylor on the right day.....HOWEVER-----in all my years of watching the LV teams, i have never seen such a hot and cold team. it's just the wrong mix of girls playing together. pat has had a hard time with most of them for years....not really a surprise to many of us. we will have 17,000 fans at sunday's game.....LV fans are not going to give up and there will always be great recruits who want to play in that environment. the future will work out.

Sorry, but these kids were considered an All Star class when recruited. They were all kids that TN wanted, most wanted very badly. If the kids aren't a fit it is still the staff's fault for not paying enough attention to team chemistry in recruiting. I will be stunned if this team will "suddenly begin to play within its capabilities" for more than a game here or there. I do not think the kids have ever been the problem. Mostly they have been scapegoats.

I think the problems are far more fundamental to the coaching staff and an accruel of Pat's problems over several years. I see no clear vision of how to play the game on the court I see confused kids not kids who kids lacking intensity. For a long time Pat has depended on individuals on offense rather than team play and great ball movement. She recognized these problems and sought solutions but never could find a way to bring them to the court.

More of what i see are kids who aren't where to turn for solutions both on the floor and on the bench. The problems I see have less to do with the talent on the floor than how they are being prepared to compete. I don't see those problems at Baylor, ND, UConn, DePaul, WVU, or numerous other schools with and without equivalent talent. When one sees confusion on the court it usually has less to do with the players than the coaching. It is indeed a strange year for TN and it is one for which there is no road map. I know of no team that has had to deal with this mix of challenges. When one reads the Summitt one senses the same confusion in the fan base.

 

[BigO]

Sorry, but these kids were considered an All Star class when recruited. They were all kids that TN wanted, most wanted very badly. If the kids aren't a fit it is still the staff's fault for not paying enough attention to team chemistry in recruiting. I will be stunned if this team will "suddenly begin to play within its capabilities" for more than a game here or there. I do not think the kids have ever been the problem. Mostly they have been scapegoats.

I think the problems are far more fundamental to the coaching staff and an accruel of Pat's problems over several years. I see no clear vision of how to play the game on the court I see confused kids not kids who kids lacking intensity. For a long time Pat has depended on individuals on offense rather than team play and great ball movement. She recognized these problems and sought solutions but never could find a way to bring them to the court.

More of what i see are kids who aren't where to turn for solutions both on the floor and on the bench. The problems I see have less to do with the talent on the floor than how they are being prepared to compete. I don't see those problems at Baylor, ND, UConn, DePaul, WVU, or numerous other schools with and without equivalent talent. When one sees confusion on the court it usually has less to do with the players than the coaching. It is indeed a strange year for TN and it is one for which there is no road map. I know of no team that has had to deal with this mix of challenges. When one reads the Summitt one senses the same confusion in the fan base.

i read the summitt everyday and it is not all confusion. it's much like this board after a loss....that aside----i watch every play of every game and have for years. and if you don't think this senior class is different than the rest, then we will just have to respectfully disagree. coaching will change and that will help when it happens, but i'm not sure which team you are watching when you say they don't lack intensity as a TEAM. that is a well known fact in WCBB world and has been since 2008 from CT to knoxville.

 

[rocky rococo]

I think one of the biggest problems this senior class at Tenn has is that in her first couple of years, the player who should have been the star of this class, Stricklen was simply asked to do too much. There was a good stretch of time there where she was effectively their point guard, taking her far away from her natural and most effective game that she should have been spending those years developing. I think that excessive early pressure left her very overwhelmed, and by this point probably a little burned out.

 

[BigO]

I think one of the biggest problems this senior class at Tenn has is that in her first couple of years, the player who should have been the star of this class, Stricklen was simply asked to do too much. There was a good stretch of time there where she was effectively their point guard, taking her far away from her natural and most effective game that she should have been spending those years developing. I think that excessive early pressure left her very overwhelmed, and by this point probably a little burned out.

now i can agree with that. strick just checks out for long stretches of every game....it is obvious when she decides to really play. it's very frustrating to see her really demand the ball for 10 mins but just walk around for 30. she's a great player though and may have not been able to handle the huge spotlight of a TN "go to player" the season is not over. if we can squeak by a couple of early rounds then play a few great games, then who knows what will happen. the talent is there.

 

[semper]

It is, all and all, the most fascinating story in WCBB at present, and what really matters to most of us, I suspect, is just to watch how this particular saga will play out. It is not how you expected the film to end, and we all have to deal with that. UConn fans lamenting UVol's losses? And that's just the beginning. Those of us who love this sport and watch carefully know that something has been really rocky on the top for several years, we just couldn't put our fingers on the reasons for it.

And then the news broke, and various weirdnesses started to fit into place. And now, of course, we too are very very sad. What is going to happen now? I agree with Ice, and we have been talking about this all season. I think it's going to be this way for a while, up until Pat decides to retire. She has no successor, no heir apparent, and what they have now is clearly not working, and only manages to on some nights because of the enormous talent of their players. They may make the elite 8...who knows. It's hot and cold.

Eventually they will have to get a great new coach and rebuild, and I predict they will. When this happens, we won't be shedding tears on this board. But til then some of us are.

 

[Icebear]

I think one of the biggest problems this senior class at Tenn has is that in her first couple of years, the player who should have been the star of this class, Stricklen was simply asked to do too much. There was a good stretch of time there where she was effectively their point guard, taking her far away from her natural and most effective game that she should have been spending those years developing. I think that excessive early pressure left her very overwhelmed, and by this point probably a little burned out.

Exactly, rocky. That is among the kind of coaching decisions I am talking about. Shekinna has had constantly changing roles. I believe this leads to the kind of confusion I am speaking of.

 

[Icebear]

It is, all and all, the most fascinating story in WCBB at present, and what really matters to most of us, I suspect, is just to watch how this particular saga will play out. It is not how you expected the film to end, and we all have to deal with that. UConn fans lamenting UVol's losses? And that's just the beginning. Those of us who love this sport and watch carefully know that something has been really rocky on the top for several years, we just couldn't put our fingers on the reasons for it.

And then the news broke, and various weirdnesses started to fit into place. And now, of course, we too are very very sad. What is going to happen now? I agree with Ice, and we have been talking about this all season. I think it's going to be this way for a while, up until Pat decides to retire. She has no successor, no heir apparent, and what they have now is clearly not working, and only manages to on some nights because of the enormous talent of their players. They may make the elite 8...who knows. It's hot and cold.

Eventually they will have to get a great new coach and rebuild, and I predict they will. When this happens, we won't be shedding tears on this board. But til then some of us are.

Well said, semper. This has not happened overnight and many things now make sense.