AP Poll - Week 15

[Tenspro2002]

We had plenty of chances for impressive wins in league play as well - we just lost all of those games save one.

I do agree that it's tougher to win BE games w/ familiarity and brand of play involved, but it's pretty obvious we haven't played our best basketball in 2+ months.

Hopefully we're back on the upswing and this is more of a tourney team than a regular season team.

2? Creighton and Marquette are both top 15 NET wins.

 

[PAHusky]

2? Creighton and Marquette are both top 15 NET wins.

My bad, not sure how I missed the second one. Thanks for the correction.

 

[Billy Jack]

I'm not sure there has ever been a a team that has helped their conference as much as we have so far this season. You couldn't ask for a better OOC then we had, while the rest of the conference was mediocre. If I remember correctly, we were about the only ranked team around the start of conference play.

You remember correctly. We were the only ranked team when conference play started. (Warning: there’s a big “but” to follow.)

BUT . . .

1. It’s not like only wins over nationally ranked teams help SOS.

2. It’s not true that the rest of the conference was mediocre. Three teams received enough votes to put them just outside the top 25 in the Coaches Poll, Week 6, which is the week that Big East play began:

27 - Marquette
32 - Creighton
34 - Xavier

The AP ranking was similar.

3. Rankings in the national writers’ and coaches’ polls are irrelevant to what the selection committee is looking at. They start with NCAA NET. Unfortunately standings in the NET back in December are not available, but as I recall, our teams ranked better there than they did in the national polls.

 

[auror]

You remember correctly. We were the only ranked team when conference play started. (Warning: there’s a big “but” to follow.)

BUT . . .

1. It’s not like only wins over nationally ranked teams help SOS.

2. It’s not true that the rest of the conference was mediocre. Three teams received enough votes to put them just outside the top 25 in the Coaches Poll, Week 6, which is the week that Big East play began:

27 - Marquette
32 - Creighton
34 - Xavier

The AP ranking was similar.

3. Rankings in the national writers’ and coaches’ polls are irrelevant to what the selection committee is looking at. They start with NCAA NET. Unfortunately standings in the NET back in December are not available, but as I recall, our teams ranked better there than they did in the national polls.

You're mistaken. On Dec 16th in the NET it was...

32 - Marquette
40 - Xavier
47 - Creighton
100 - Providence

The Big East really did not have a great non-conf. Creighton had a losing streak, Marquette and Providence lost games to mediocre teams. Xavier lost all their high profile games.

KenPom was higher on all those teams than the NET though (31, 30, 26, 69), and higher on all compared to the polls except 4 spots lower on Marquette. The polls react strongly to big single wins (like their win over Baylor).

Butler, St. John's, and us have absolutely been advanced metrics Santa for the rest of the conference.

 

[upstater]

You're mistaken. On Dec 16th in the NET it was...

32 - Marquette
40 - Xavier
47 - Creighton
100 - Providence

The Big East really did not have a great non-conf. Creighton had a losing streak, Marquette and Providence lost games to mediocre teams. Xavier lost all their high profile games.

KenPom was higher on all those teams than the NET though (31, 30, 26, 69), and higher on all compared to the polls except 4 spots lower on Marquette. The polls react strongly to big single wins (like their win over Baylor).

Butler, St. John's, and us have absolutely been advanced metrics Santa for the rest of the conference.

I don't want to blame the way BE games are called but I've long thought that the stuff that is allowed in BE play changes to complexion of games. I just don't see the same kind of arms and handchecking you see in other leagues. People get up tight in the BE and push the guards off where they want to go. This doesn't happen in other conferences. It allows mudders to trash games, and outside the conference those same teams lose to good shooters. Look at the Creighton team we just played. They were at home and they couldn't buy a bucket. No wonder they lost so many games OOC

 

[CaptainRon]

I don't want to blame the way BE games are called but I've long thought that the stuff that is allowed in BE play changes to complexion of games. I just don't see the same kind of arms and handchecking you see in other leagues. People get up tight in the BE and push the guards off where they want to go. This doesn't happen in other conferences. It allows mudders to trash games, and outside the conference those same teams lose to good shooters. Look at the Creighton team we just played. They were at home and they couldn't buy a bucket. No wonder they lost so many games OOC

Psst, they lost because Kalk was hurt. With him they were predicted as the #1 team in the conference.

 

[Billy Jack]

You're mistaken. On Dec 16th in the NET it was...

32 - Marquette
40 - Xavier
47 - Creighton
100 - Providence

The Big East really did not have a great non-conf. Creighton had a losing streak, Marquette and Providence lost games to mediocre teams. Xavier lost all their high profile games.

KenPom was higher on all those teams than the NET though (31, 30, 26, 69), and higher on all compared to the polls except 4 spots lower on Marquette. The polls react strongly to big single wins (like their win over Baylor).

Butler, St. John's, and us have absolutely been advanced metrics Santa for the rest of the conference.

You’re right. It was Ken Pom, Sagarin, etc I was thinking of. Now that you’ve jogged my memory, I remember being struck at the time by the disparity between the power ratings and the NET.

Thanks for the help. Much appreciated.

 

[Billy Jack]

I don't want to blame the way BE games are called but I've long thought that the stuff that is allowed in BE play changes to complexion of games. I just don't see the same kind of arms and handchecking you see in other leagues. People get up tight in the BE and push the guards off where they want to go. This doesn't happen in other conferences. It allows mudders to trash games, and outside the conference those same teams lose to good shooters. Look at the Creighton team we just played. They were at home and they couldn't buy a bucket. No wonder they lost so many games OOC

Creighton couldn’t buy a bucket last night? Is that what you’re saying? They did shoot poorly on their 3’s but overall they shot 48%. And if you’re blaming the refs for their poor 3-point shooting, how do we explain PC hitting 42% of their 3’s?

 

[SellersElbow]

2. It’s not true that the rest of the conference was mediocre.

Fair enough, I may have overstated that. What I meant was the overall OOC performance of the rest of the conference was underwhelming. It was looking like a down year for the Big East. Now, with five of 11 teams ranked, that picture seems a lot different.

 

[upstater]

Creighton couldn’t buy a bucket last night? Is that what you’re saying? They did shoot poorly on their 3’s but overall they shot 48%. And if you’re blaming the refs for their poor 3-point shooting, how do we explain PC hitting 42% of their 3’s?

I don't see how what you wrote relates to what I'm saying.

I said I don't blame the refs, I just said the complexion of the game changes when physicality and handchecking is allowed. That's not blame; it is a description of a style of play. When you score in the 50s, it's because of the style of play more than anything. I'm not going to actually look this up but when you can't get to your spots and the passing lanes close up because of it, that should cause you to turn the ball over more, so I'm guessing there are more turnovers in the BE than other leagues. How else are you going to shoot 48% and score just 50+ points?

 

[upstater]

Psst, they lost because Kalk was hurt. With him they were predicted as the #1 team in the conference.

I'm talking about the entire league's OOC performance mostly, but if we're only going to talk about him, does he seem like he makes that much difference? I just don't see him as that powerful a force. One of the best players in the BE, but is he the type of guy whose absence makes you lose 8 games?

 

[HuskyHawk]

I don't want to blame the way BE games are called but I've long thought that the stuff that is allowed in BE play changes to complexion of games. I just don't see the same kind of arms and handchecking you see in other leagues. People get up tight in the BE and push the guards off where they want to go. This doesn't happen in other conferences. It allows mudders to trash games, and outside the conference those same teams lose to good shooters. Look at the Creighton team we just played. They were at home and they couldn't buy a bucket. No wonder they lost so many games OOC

True, and Providence is the glaring example right now. If you put UConn in the Big XII, we'd be up near the top. PC wouldn't. They simply couldn't play that style and get away with it. Come tournament time, you take your chance on how the game will be called, but you won't get it your way every game.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I'm talking about the entire league's OOC performance mostly, but if we're only going to talk about him, does he seem like he makes that much difference? I just don't see him as that powerful a force. One of the best players in the BE, but is he the type of guy whose absence makes you lose 8 games?

He does because while Creighton was picked to win the league, we all knew they only really had 5 guys. Take away their best player and they have 4 guys plus King, who is ok. There's no quality depth on that roster.

 

[Billy Jack]

I don't see how what you wrote relates to what I'm saying.

I said I don't blame the refs, I just said the complexion of the game changes when physicality and handchecking is allowed. That's not blame; it is a description of a style of play. When you score in the 50s, it's because of the style of play more than anything. I'm not going to actually look this up but when you can't get to your spots and the passing lanes close up because of it, that should cause you to turn the ball over more, so I'm guessing there are more turnovers in the BE than other leagues. How else are you going to shoot 48% and score just 50+ points?

Fair enough. Good points. I like your analytical thinking.

 

[caw]

I'm talking about the entire league's OOC performance mostly, but if we're only going to talk about him, does he seem like he makes that much difference? I just don't see him as that powerful a force. One of the best players in the BE, but is he the type of guy whose absence makes you lose 8 games?

He does because while Creighton was picked to win the league, we all knew they only really had 5 guys. Take away their best player and they have 4 guys plus King, who is ok. There's no quality depth on that roster.

It's a tough one to call about Creighton. They lost three games with Kalkbrenner out, but they had lost three in a row with him playing going into BYU.

That said against BYU and ASU Kalkbrenner may have been good enough to get them the extra bucket they needed to win, especially BYU where King gave them almost nothing. However against King played exceptional and put up a damn good stat line. ASU is a tough one to call because it was a close game and I'm not so sure Kalkbrenner brings more statistically and non-statistically than King did that game. Still think they lose to Marquette at Marquette though because not only did King play extremely well but they lost by 11.

At the least I think BYU could have been a win with Kalkbrenner instead of King.

ASU is probably still a coinflip and Marquette a loss.

It's not like Creighton is undefeated with him in the lineup, they still have 6 losses this year with him playing.

 

[jibsey]

Purdue loses. Watch them drop a spot.

 

[caw]

Purdue loses. Watch them drop a spot.

Didn't watch tonight, but that's three losses in a row on the road for them and three of four overall. Northwestern only a game and half back in the BIG standings. Doubt they can make it up but it would be interesting. Guess Houston back to #1.

 

[UCLJ0211]

This is the first year in a while that I can remember so many losses for the top teams. Aside from Houston, (and we all know the level of their competition in the AAC,) every team in the top 30 KenPom has at least 4 losses.

 

[HuskyHawk]

This is the first year in a while that I can remember so many losses for the top teams. Aside from Houston, (and we all know the level of their competition in the AAC,) every team in the top 30 KenPom has at least 4 losses.

You'd think that maybe UConn fans could cut their team some slack. We have three games, St. Johns and Xavier home and Seton Hall away, that really should have been wins.