AP Poll - Week 15

[Incursio007]

Same pollster had Xavier unranked….

I like that guy

 

[Tenspro2002]

WEEK 15 VOTES: All over the place. You would think things would tighten up at this point in the season.

View attachment 84074

Really tired of being weighed down by our own writers.

Also why does Dick Vitale still get a vote?

 

[SellersElbow]

I'm not sure there has ever been a a team that has helped their conference as much as we have so far this season. You couldn't ask for a better OOC then we had, while the rest of the conference was mediocre. If I remember correctly, we were about the only ranked team around the start of conference play.

Since then we have doled out Q1 to every team that needed one to climb the rankings. We've managed enough good wins to keep our RPI high enough that beating us still has a major impact. The Big East is now looking like a big beast.

So that's nice and all, but be can we now please stop helping our conference foes and start kicking the poop out of them?

 

[UCLJ0211]

If you want to feel better, take a look at the NET rankings and realize we beat the #2, 14, 15, 16, 29, 50 and 53 ranked teams.

 

[PAHusky]

If you want to feel better, take a look at the NET rankings and realize we beat the #2, 14, 15, 16, 29, 50 and 53 ranked teams.

It's true, but the counter point is that only one of those impressive wins has happened in 2023.

Think we've seen this team's ceiling, and I hope we've seen its floor as well. Hopefully we're trending back towards the former now

 

[navery12]

It's true, but the counter point is that only one of those impressive wins has happened in 2023.

Think we've seen this team's ceiling, and I hope we've seen its floor as well. Hopefully we're trending back towards the former now

The Creighton and Marquette wins were both in 2023

 

[ClifSpliffy]

I still don't know how Houston tops the NET rankings with 5 Q1 wins. They've only played 6 Q1 games. Kansas has played 16.
UConn is 8th in the NET.

DI Men's Basketball Rankings - NCAA Men's Basketball NET Rankings | NCAA.com

Get NCAA college basketball rankings from the Associated Press, USA Today Coaches poll and the NCAA NET Rankings.

www.ncaa.com

hooston is the only team in the land undefeated on the road. 8-0
on the udder hand, we have, at 4-5, one of the worst road records for the top 25 ranked teams. and, at 7-6, we also have a not so special q1 record.
a very, very big deal.

pro tip- don't start the hooston thing. it never works out the way some here think it should.

'In 2017–18, the Cougars compiled a 27–8 overall record, reaching the finals of the AAC tournament and winning a game in the NCAA tournament for the first time since 1984.
In 2018–19, the Cougars' success continued as they set a program record for wins with a 33–4 mark. They were AAC regular-season champions but fell in the finals of the conference tournament. They proceeded to the NCAA tournament, where they reached the Sweet Sixteen for the first time in 35 years.
In 2020–21, the Cougars were ranked as high as No. 5 in the nation. After winning the AAC Tournament, the Cougars were awarded a #2 seed in the NCAA Tournament. UH defeated Cleveland State, Rutgers, Syracuse and Oregon State to achieve their first Final Four appearance since 1984.[28] They would lose to eventual national champions Baylor in the Final Four.[29]
During the 2021–22 season, the Cougars won the AAC regular season championship with a 15–3 conference record. They then defeated Cincinnati, Tulane and Memphis to win the conference tournament. With the conference championship, an overall record of 29–5 and ranked No. 15 in the nation, Houston received a #5 seed in the NCAA tournament. In the tournament, UH defeated UAB, Illinois and Arizona before losing to Villanova in the Elite Eight. Going into the 2022–2023 season, UH has a 108–53 regular season conference record along with having won or shared the AAC regular season title in three of the last four seasons, and have finished no worse than third since the 2014–15 season.' wiki.
joshy's team.

 

[ClifSpliffy]

im pretty sure that some of this data doo doo and the ones with voting, is that those voters look at our absolute talent, and think 'how can they not be?'

idk. ask danny.

 

[upstater]

It's true, but the counter point is that only one of those impressive wins has happened in 2023.

Think we've seen this team's ceiling, and I hope we've seen its floor as well. Hopefully we're trending back towards the former now

This is every year though. Almost all your OOC wins are in the 1st half of the season.

When it comes to conference games, you just don't know what you have since style of play, home games, style of reffing, mean so much more than they do in the 1st half.

I would not necessarily say that the conference play is determinative, and that the 1st half means very little.

Granted, teams build; but it all means something.

 

[PAHusky]

This is every year though. Almost all your OOC wins are in the 1st half of the season.

When it comes to conference games, you just don't know what you have since style of play, home games, style of reffing, mean so much more than they do in the 1st half.

I would not necessarily say that the conference play is determinative, and that the 1st half means very little.

Granted, teams build; but it all means something.

We had plenty of chances for impressive wins in league play as well - we just lost all of those games save one.

I do agree that it's tougher to win BE games w/ familiarity and brand of play involved, but it's pretty obvious we haven't played our best basketball in 2+ months.

Hopefully we're back on the upswing and this is more of a tourney team than a regular season team.

 

[Tenspro2002]

We had plenty of chances for impressive wins in league play as well - we just lost all of those games save one.

I do agree that it's tougher to win BE games w/ familiarity and brand of play involved, but it's pretty obvious we haven't played our best basketball in 2+ months.

Hopefully we're back on the upswing and this is more of a tourney team than a regular season team.

2? Creighton and Marquette are both top 15 NET wins.

 

[PAHusky]

2? Creighton and Marquette are both top 15 NET wins.

My bad, not sure how I missed the second one. Thanks for the correction.

 

[Billy Jack]

I'm not sure there has ever been a a team that has helped their conference as much as we have so far this season. You couldn't ask for a better OOC then we had, while the rest of the conference was mediocre. If I remember correctly, we were about the only ranked team around the start of conference play.

You remember correctly. We were the only ranked team when conference play started. (Warning: there’s a big “but” to follow.)

BUT . . .

1. It’s not like only wins over nationally ranked teams help SOS.

2. It’s not true that the rest of the conference was mediocre. Three teams received enough votes to put them just outside the top 25 in the Coaches Poll, Week 6, which is the week that Big East play began:

27 - Marquette
32 - Creighton
34 - Xavier

The AP ranking was similar.

3. Rankings in the national writers’ and coaches’ polls are irrelevant to what the selection committee is looking at. They start with NCAA NET. Unfortunately standings in the NET back in December are not available, but as I recall, our teams ranked better there than they did in the national polls.

 

[auror]

You remember correctly. We were the only ranked team when conference play started. (Warning: there’s a big “but” to follow.)

BUT . . .

1. It’s not like only wins over nationally ranked teams help SOS.

2. It’s not true that the rest of the conference was mediocre. Three teams received enough votes to put them just outside the top 25 in the Coaches Poll, Week 6, which is the week that Big East play began:

27 - Marquette
32 - Creighton
34 - Xavier

The AP ranking was similar.

3. Rankings in the national writers’ and coaches’ polls are irrelevant to what the selection committee is looking at. They start with NCAA NET. Unfortunately standings in the NET back in December are not available, but as I recall, our teams ranked better there than they did in the national polls.

You're mistaken. On Dec 16th in the NET it was...

32 - Marquette
40 - Xavier
47 - Creighton
100 - Providence

The Big East really did not have a great non-conf. Creighton had a losing streak, Marquette and Providence lost games to mediocre teams. Xavier lost all their high profile games.

KenPom was higher on all those teams than the NET though (31, 30, 26, 69), and higher on all compared to the polls except 4 spots lower on Marquette. The polls react strongly to big single wins (like their win over Baylor).

Butler, St. John's, and us have absolutely been advanced metrics Santa for the rest of the conference.

 

[upstater]

You're mistaken. On Dec 16th in the NET it was...

32 - Marquette
40 - Xavier
47 - Creighton
100 - Providence

The Big East really did not have a great non-conf. Creighton had a losing streak, Marquette and Providence lost games to mediocre teams. Xavier lost all their high profile games.

KenPom was higher on all those teams than the NET though (31, 30, 26, 69), and higher on all compared to the polls except 4 spots lower on Marquette. The polls react strongly to big single wins (like their win over Baylor).

Butler, St. John's, and us have absolutely been advanced metrics Santa for the rest of the conference.

I don't want to blame the way BE games are called but I've long thought that the stuff that is allowed in BE play changes to complexion of games. I just don't see the same kind of arms and handchecking you see in other leagues. People get up tight in the BE and push the guards off where they want to go. This doesn't happen in other conferences. It allows mudders to trash games, and outside the conference those same teams lose to good shooters. Look at the Creighton team we just played. They were at home and they couldn't buy a bucket. No wonder they lost so many games OOC

 

[CaptainRon]

I don't want to blame the way BE games are called but I've long thought that the stuff that is allowed in BE play changes to complexion of games. I just don't see the same kind of arms and handchecking you see in other leagues. People get up tight in the BE and push the guards off where they want to go. This doesn't happen in other conferences. It allows mudders to trash games, and outside the conference those same teams lose to good shooters. Look at the Creighton team we just played. They were at home and they couldn't buy a bucket. No wonder they lost so many games OOC

Psst, they lost because Kalk was hurt. With him they were predicted as the #1 team in the conference.

 

[Billy Jack]

You're mistaken. On Dec 16th in the NET it was...

32 - Marquette
40 - Xavier
47 - Creighton
100 - Providence

The Big East really did not have a great non-conf. Creighton had a losing streak, Marquette and Providence lost games to mediocre teams. Xavier lost all their high profile games.

KenPom was higher on all those teams than the NET though (31, 30, 26, 69), and higher on all compared to the polls except 4 spots lower on Marquette. The polls react strongly to big single wins (like their win over Baylor).

Butler, St. John's, and us have absolutely been advanced metrics Santa for the rest of the conference.

You’re right. It was Ken Pom, Sagarin, etc I was thinking of. Now that you’ve jogged my memory, I remember being struck at the time by the disparity between the power ratings and the NET.

Thanks for the help. Much appreciated.

 

[Billy Jack]

I don't want to blame the way BE games are called but I've long thought that the stuff that is allowed in BE play changes to complexion of games. I just don't see the same kind of arms and handchecking you see in other leagues. People get up tight in the BE and push the guards off where they want to go. This doesn't happen in other conferences. It allows mudders to trash games, and outside the conference those same teams lose to good shooters. Look at the Creighton team we just played. They were at home and they couldn't buy a bucket. No wonder they lost so many games OOC

Creighton couldn’t buy a bucket last night? Is that what you’re saying? They did shoot poorly on their 3’s but overall they shot 48%. And if you’re blaming the refs for their poor 3-point shooting, how do we explain PC hitting 42% of their 3’s?

 

[SellersElbow]

2. It’s not true that the rest of the conference was mediocre.

Fair enough, I may have overstated that. What I meant was the overall OOC performance of the rest of the conference was underwhelming. It was looking like a down year for the Big East. Now, with five of 11 teams ranked, that picture seems a lot different.

 

[upstater]

Creighton couldn’t buy a bucket last night? Is that what you’re saying? They did shoot poorly on their 3’s but overall they shot 48%. And if you’re blaming the refs for their poor 3-point shooting, how do we explain PC hitting 42% of their 3’s?

I don't see how what you wrote relates to what I'm saying.

I said I don't blame the refs, I just said the complexion of the game changes when physicality and handchecking is allowed. That's not blame; it is a description of a style of play. When you score in the 50s, it's because of the style of play more than anything. I'm not going to actually look this up but when you can't get to your spots and the passing lanes close up because of it, that should cause you to turn the ball over more, so I'm guessing there are more turnovers in the BE than other leagues. How else are you going to shoot 48% and score just 50+ points?

 

[upstater]

Psst, they lost because Kalk was hurt. With him they were predicted as the #1 team in the conference.

I'm talking about the entire league's OOC performance mostly, but if we're only going to talk about him, does he seem like he makes that much difference? I just don't see him as that powerful a force. One of the best players in the BE, but is he the type of guy whose absence makes you lose 8 games?

 

[HuskyHawk]

I don't want to blame the way BE games are called but I've long thought that the stuff that is allowed in BE play changes to complexion of games. I just don't see the same kind of arms and handchecking you see in other leagues. People get up tight in the BE and push the guards off where they want to go. This doesn't happen in other conferences. It allows mudders to trash games, and outside the conference those same teams lose to good shooters. Look at the Creighton team we just played. They were at home and they couldn't buy a bucket. No wonder they lost so many games OOC

True, and Providence is the glaring example right now. If you put UConn in the Big XII, we'd be up near the top. PC wouldn't. They simply couldn't play that style and get away with it. Come tournament time, you take your chance on how the game will be called, but you won't get it your way every game.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I'm talking about the entire league's OOC performance mostly, but if we're only going to talk about him, does he seem like he makes that much difference? I just don't see him as that powerful a force. One of the best players in the BE, but is he the type of guy whose absence makes you lose 8 games?

He does because while Creighton was picked to win the league, we all knew they only really had 5 guys. Take away their best player and they have 4 guys plus King, who is ok. There's no quality depth on that roster.

 

[Billy Jack]

I don't see how what you wrote relates to what I'm saying.

I said I don't blame the refs, I just said the complexion of the game changes when physicality and handchecking is allowed. That's not blame; it is a description of a style of play. When you score in the 50s, it's because of the style of play more than anything. I'm not going to actually look this up but when you can't get to your spots and the passing lanes close up because of it, that should cause you to turn the ball over more, so I'm guessing there are more turnovers in the BE than other leagues. How else are you going to shoot 48% and score just 50+ points?

Fair enough. Good points. I like your analytical thinking.

 

[caw]

I'm talking about the entire league's OOC performance mostly, but if we're only going to talk about him, does he seem like he makes that much difference? I just don't see him as that powerful a force. One of the best players in the BE, but is he the type of guy whose absence makes you lose 8 games?

He does because while Creighton was picked to win the league, we all knew they only really had 5 guys. Take away their best player and they have 4 guys plus King, who is ok. There's no quality depth on that roster.

It's a tough one to call about Creighton. They lost three games with Kalkbrenner out, but they had lost three in a row with him playing going into BYU.

That said against BYU and ASU Kalkbrenner may have been good enough to get them the extra bucket they needed to win, especially BYU where King gave them almost nothing. However against King played exceptional and put up a damn good stat line. ASU is a tough one to call because it was a close game and I'm not so sure Kalkbrenner brings more statistically and non-statistically than King did that game. Still think they lose to Marquette at Marquette though because not only did King play extremely well but they lost by 11.

At the least I think BYU could have been a win with Kalkbrenner instead of King.

ASU is probably still a coinflip and Marquette a loss.

It's not like Creighton is undefeated with him in the lineup, they still have 6 losses this year with him playing.