Another Replacement Guard ?

[CocoHusky]

I see a reasonable middle ground between oldude and Bone Dog's points that defines where I am at. If you recruit a very good player you want them to be shooting for a significant role, and not be content with a mop up role like oldude, and Bone Dog I believe is correct that Uconn won't be an attractive proposition for some transfers because of the possibility of iffy playing time. I think that point also pertains to incoming freshmen.

While I agree it is not for everybody, I don't see a problem with recruiting extra very good players as long as it is presented openly and honestly. That means that extra 11th or 12th very good player has to beat out somebody to make the rotation, if they don't they may well wind up transferring, but in the meantime represent a very good insurance policy for the team. You lose some recruits to the portal, pick up some fillers from the portal, and keep recruiting an extra "very good" player or two on an ongoing basis.

I suspect most of the very good players that Uconn pursues would want to see a likely path to playing time before committing, whether they be freshmen recruits or transfers. Clearly it is much harder to recruit a very good prospect that on paper might project as outside the top ten, as opposed to a likely part of the rotation. Still there are some players that would accept the challenge with a great deal of uncertainty, knowing they need to beat out someone considered as good or better than them to get playing time. If the coach and the player are realistic about their chances and OK with it, then I think from a team standpoint that insurance has significant value, at least in years with significant injuries.

Oldude is right that kids want to play, and Bone Dog that Uconn may not be an attractive proposition for some transfers because of potential playing time issues, but for those that are willing to try to break into the rotation with no guarantees, and even if it doesn't work out, get to experience a year of the Uconn program, it could be a reasonable gamble without much downside. If they want playing time in subsequent years they can get it in the portal.

There is no middle ground. If you don't want to compete then don't go to UCONN. That applies to player 1-X. Even if you are designated player 1(like Paige) you have to be willing to compete against yourself in order to get better.

 

[Stymie]

A really good player will never become a great player sitting on the bench.

And ‘round and ‘round we go.
We’re all looking for Amari to step up in a big way this year.
I expect great things.
Contributed near zero last year on a severely undermanned team.
On what theory should we be so hopeful?
Great talent.
Near the top of her class.
Apparently, all of the tools.
Great size.
Despite paltry playing time and contribution last season, can she become a great player for UCONN?
According to your theory, she cannot.
Please ‘splain.

 

[Bone Dog]

We don’t need Amari to become “a great player.” We need her to become a dependable rotation player. This depends on her focusing on her D, which was lackluster last year. That’s always the starting point for us. She already has good offensive skills. Kiah Stokes was a great rebounder and defender, and a so-so offensive player. This limited her playing time, since opponents could effectively play D 5 on 4 when she was in the game. Amari has the inverse problem. Opposing teams will have to guard her everywhere on the court. But she was a defensive liability last year.

 

[Bone Dog]

Just to continue the thought, lots of us hope we dominate in the front court. But we can’t do that if Dorka and Aaliyah play 40 mins each. But if we can get 10+ mins each from Amari Ice and Ayanna, we have a mor doable 20-25 mins from Dorka and Aaliyah. Now Ayanna will likely do some mins at the 3, which means I hope the rotation players grow their playing time as we go on. My dream is that they can share enough of the load that fatigue and fouls are no longer an issue.

 

[DaBball]

 

[kat0189]

Hate to play "what if" about PB's injury since it's just flat out devastating for her, but I think if the timing was different, the grad BYU transfer who signed with Texas mid-July Shaylee Gonzales would have chosen UConn to fill in the gap for PB. In following her social media for clues to where she would transfer I had noticed she kept things pretty close to the vest except her admiration for UConn WBB

 

[Zarathustra]

I can appreciate the many thoughtful posts on this thread. I am in the " extra guard "
camp of BY followers because injuries / illnesses do happen = that is an obvious statement, correct??!!

 

[CocoHusky]

This pretty much confirms that the UCONN target is Elena Buenavida-see @HuskyNan post # 3 in this thread.
The video below also confirms she is class of 2022.

Elena Buenavida Estevez 2022

This is "Elena Buenavida Estevez 2022" by Dan Bowmaker on Vimeo, the home for high quality videos and the people who love them.

vimeo.com

 

[oldude]

And ‘round and ‘round we go.
We’re all looking for Amari to step up in a big way this year.
I expect great things.
Contributed near zero last year on a severely undermanned team.
On what theory should we be so hopeful?
Great talent.
Near the top of her class.
Apparently, all of the tools.
Great size.
Despite paltry playing time and contribution last season, can she become a great player for UCONN?
According to your theory, she cannot.
Please ‘splain.

I’m confused. Initially you were making the case that UConn should have recruited more players to sit on the bench as insurance this season, with little chance of playing. Now you are changing your tune to account for the natural development of players from their freshman to sophomore season.

Amari was a top 10 recruit who missed her entire senior HS season due to the pandemic. She is a skilled offensive player who made the commitment to spend the entire summer working on her game and fitness level. Recruiting Amari as a HS senior is a world of difference from bringing in a 3rd year transfer with little opportunity of playing meaningful minutes.

 

[CL82]

She can… she not only wears number 33 but she has the same kind of game as Larry Bird… she definitely can play pg

Did Larry Bird play point guard?

 

[Stymie]

I’m confused. Initially you were making the case that UConn should have recruited more players to sit on the bench as insurance this season, with little chance of playing. Now you are changing your tune to account for the natural development of players from their freshman to sophomore season.

Amari was a top 10 recruit who missed her entire senior HS season due to the pandemic. She is a skilled offensive player who made the commitment to spend the entire summer working on her game and fitness level. Recruiting Amari as a HS senior is a world of difference from bringing in a 3rd year transfer with little opportunity of playing meaningful minutes.

Never suggested to “sit the bench”.
Have strongly supported to develop, nurture and integrate into substantial contributors to team success.
I believe that a 6-8/9 player rotation is a recipe for failure. (Relative to your goals).
Some teams the goal is 500% season.
Some teams it’s an NIT invite.
Some teams it’s the ‘play in slot’ to The Dance.
Determine what you consider a successful season and plan accordingly.
There WILL come a time this season when UCONN suffers the result of a short roster- and it’s not just as a result of the Paige loss.
I’m sorry to state that but the numbers speak for themselves.

 

[hoophuskee]

While I agree it is not for everybody, I don't see a problem with recruiting extra very good players as long as it is presented openly and honestly. That means that extra 11th or 12th very good player has to beat out somebody to make the rotation,

I suspect most of the very good players that Uconn pursues would want to see a likely path to playing time before committing, whether they be freshmen recruits or transfers. Clearly it is much harder to recruit a very good prospect that on paper might project as outside the top ten, as opposed to a likely part of the rotation. Still there are some players that would accept the challenge with a great deal of uncertainty, knowing they need to beat out someone considered as good or better than them to get playing time. I

Great post!

I just want to add though, UCONN did have 11 players.

Secondly, you make a good point about "accepting the challenge." The problem is that UCONN usually gets number 1 ranked guard and wing high school recruits in the past. How much of a realistic challenge do terrific recruits ranked behind for example Paige and Azzi feel like they are going to realistically compete? Why would a top ranked but lesser ranked player take that risk competing vs number 1's when it is much less risk at another fine school, and you can play?

 

[oldude]

Never suggested to “sit the bench”.
Have strongly supported to develop, nurture and integrate into substantial contributors to team success.
I believe that a 6-8/9 player rotation is a recipe for failure. (Relative to your goals).
Some teams the goal is 500% season.
Some teams it’s an NIT invite.
Some teams it’s the ‘play in slot’ to The Dance.
Determine what you consider a successful season and plan accordingly.
There WILL come a time this season when UCONN suffers the result of a short roster- and it’s not just as a result of the Paige loss.
I’m sorry to state that but the numbers speak for themselves.

So which player from where should UConn have made a push for. After Paige’s injury, it’s easy to second guess Geno, because UConn’s most immediate need appears to be another guard. Let’s examine how that actually played out before Paige’s injury.

Let’s start with HS recruits. In addition to Ayanna & Ice, UConn was down to the wire on Kiki Rice, the # 1 guard in the nation, capable of playing both pg and shooting guard. In the end Rice chose UCLA, for a variety of reasons I’m sure. But I have no doubt that Rice’s decision, in part, had to do with the challenge of finding PT on a team with Paige, Azzi, Caroline and Nika, not to mention the fact that Ashlynn Shade & KK Arnold are right behind her.

When Rice chose UCLA, Geno pivoted to the transfer portal. Here again, any guard transfer would be faced with the formidable challenge of trying to carve out PT on a team loaded with talented guards, with 2 more on the way next season. I am ecstatic that Geno was able to convince an experienced grad transfer like Lou to be a Husky for one season.

So again, if you are going to second-guess Geno following Paige’s injury, and after the immediate eligibility door for transfers closed on May 1, please tell me who exactly Geno should have brought in who is actually capable of contributing and willing to take their chances on securing PT?

 

[Stymie]

Not second guessing geno ( nice try)
I have commented consistently that I felt this team was in a short roster situation.
If you believe this was not the case prior to Paige’s unfortunate injury, then speculation regarding additional infusions is a useless exercise.
If you believe 11 players coming in, with one hip surgery in off season and one back surgery recovery reflects a full arsenal, the we’re beating a dead horse.
(Cue icon)

 

[Bone Dog]

11 or 12 has been the norm for years at UConn. And there were always players recovering from injuries practically every season. Just check the rosters from the Stewie years to see it. Or the DT years. This year is not anomalous, though it is emotionally grueling.

 

[hoophuskee]

I can appreciate the many thoughtful posts on this thread. I am in the " extra guard "
camp of BY followers because injuries / illnesses do happen = that is an obvious statement, correct??!!

No.

They had extra guards. And they still do have extra guards/wings.

 

[Cedar]

Interesting discussion. I come down on the side of having a deeper roster to provide an insurance policy against injuries.

I haven’t seen data to support this, but my sense is that WBB players have become, on average, bigger and faster than they were 20 or 30 years ago. As a fan of other sports such as hockey and football, I’ve seen a trend toward bigger, faster players. Some of this is a consequence of changes in the athletes being recruited, and some is a result of advances in training methods.

What this means is that in the present era, there is an increased likelihood of more violent collisions. It’s basic physics, F=ma, force (F) equals mass (m) times acceleration (a). If you have bigger athletes, with more mass, who can accelerate more quickly, they can hit each other with more force. This increases the likelihood of knee, head, and other types of injuries.

John Wooden famously said that he would rather have a good athlete who is a great team player than a superstar athlete who is not a good team player. Perhaps I’m old school, but I think you want to have some great team players who are unselfish and are willing to accept not having starting roles, but can step up and help the team when necessary—such as when a starting player is injured. I believe there are players who are willing to accept that sort of role, particularly if they have scholarships to help them get a good education.

In the modern era, having a short roster is flirting with disaster. One or two (more) injuries to key players, and the team could be up the creek without a paddle. Again, I think it’s wise to have a bigger roster as an insurance policy against injuries or illness.

 

[oldude]

11 or 12 has been the norm for years at UConn. And there were always players recovering from injuries practically every season. Just check the rosters from the Stewie years to see it. Or the DT years. This year is not anomalous, though it is emotionally grueling.

Thank you for making this point. During UConn’s run of 4 national championships, the Huskies effective roster, not including walk-ons, was 11 (2013), 9 (2014), 10 (2015) & 9 (2016). During that period, UConn dealt with post-surgical recovery or serious injuries to Doty, Tuck & KML, to name a few. I expect that UConn will be absolutely fine with 10 players next season.

 

[CocoHusky]

Great post!

I just want to add though, UCONN did have 11 players.

Secondly, you make a good point about "accepting the challenge." The problem is that UCONN usually gets number 1 ranked guard and wing high school recruits in the past. How much of a realistic challenge do terrific recruits ranked behind for example Paige and Azzi feel like they are going to realistically compete? Why would a top ranked but lesser ranked player take that risk competing vs number 1's when it is much less risk at another fine school, and you can play?

“I chose UConn because I wanted to win in the Final Four and win a championship,” Samuels said. “I believe that Coach Geno can make me a professional basketball player and get me in the WNBA.

“I was really nervous to be honest talking to (Auriemma) because people say that he’s a real hard coach, but he’ll challenge you at the same time,” Samuel said. “So I’m nervous, but I accepted the challenge.”

Qadence Samuels is part of the class expected to carry torch from the Paige Bueckers era

Before choosing UConn, Qadence Samuels received offers from Miami, Wake Forest, North Carolina and NC State.

theathletic.com

Again this is very simple: Don't go to UCONN unless you are willing to embrace the challenge or expecting something like playing time to be handed to you-don't do it!

 

[oldude]

One last thought here. We would all like a deeper roster with UConn filling their entire allocation of 15 scholarships with talented basketball players who can contribute. The problem is that’s not realistic when a rotation is unlikely to extend much beyond 7-8 players, in an environment when any player can transfer and become immediately eligible.

There is only one school in WBB that can maintain a 15 player roster, imo. That would be Stanford, where the prestige and benefit of securing a degree often outweigh the desire for PT. Outside of Stanford, most D1 schools are carrying 9-12 scholarship players.

 

[hoophuskee]

I’m confused. Initially you were making the case that UConn should have recruited more players to sit on the bench as insurance this season, with little chance of playing. Now you are changing your tune to account for the natural development of players from their freshman to sophomore season.

Amari was a top 10 recruit who missed her entire senior HS season due to the pandemic. She is a skilled offensive player who made the commitment to spend the entire summer working on her game and fitness level. Recruiting Amari as a HS senior is a world of difference from bringing in a 3rd year transfer with little opportunity of playing meaningful minutes.

What's going on with some here is the misguided use of Paige and Geno's comment of "Title or Nothing" and completely disregarded any other comment they have made. It's called "Cherry-picking."

And anyone suggesting short benches don’t work well apparently they haven't followed UCONN basketball much nor have they followed wcbb in which most teams win with short benches.

And another issue is that over the past 4 and now maybe 5 years, UCONN has had only one All-American. And that A/A left us in a year we would have had a super chance to win it all. And to acquire more "very good players" when you get number 1/number/number 3 ranked H/S All-Americans already on your team is incredibly naive considering those high ranked players are coming to "Glamorous Storrs" to play. Not sit on the bench.

And the minute you stop playing them big minutes (in particular guards and wings), you start to say goodbye to the number 1 recruits coming to UCONN that have bene an enormous reason why UCONN has won so many titles.

 

[hoophuskee]

“I chose UConn because I wanted to win in the Final Four and win a championship,” Samuels said. “I believe that Coach Geno can make me a professional basketball player and get me in the WNBA.

“I was really nervous to be honest talking to (Auriemma) because people say that he’s a real hard coach, but he’ll challenge you at the same time,” Samuel said. “So I’m nervous, but I accepted the challenge.”

Qadence Samuels is part of the class expected to carry torch from the Paige Bueckers era

Before choosing UConn, Qadence Samuels received offers from Miami, Wake Forest, North Carolina and NC State.

theathletic.com

Again this is very simple: Don't go to UCONN unless you are willing to embrace the challenge or expecting something like playing time to be handed to you-don't do it!

And many don't. So what's your point?

 

[cohenzone]

Oh, we can turn on a dime!

How about a combo center

 

[PacoSwede]

Great post!

,,,

Secondly, you make a good point about "accepting the challenge." The problem is that UCONN usually gets number 1 ranked guard and wing high school recruits in the past. How much of a realistic challenge do terrific recruits ranked behind for example Paige and Azzi feel like they are going to realistically compete? Why would a top ranked but lesser ranked player take that risk competing vs number 1's when it is much less risk at another fine school, and you can play?

if anyone gets a chance, let's ask kk and ashlynn for their answers

 

[Stymie]

Rotation of 7-8 players is inadequate.
Gone the way of the buggy whip and .99 gas.
You want to waltz through the Big East?
Fine- play 6-8.
Let’s see how this year pans out after another Big East “CROWN”.
Season cannot start soon enough for me.