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Another reason why Andre Jackson chose UConn

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upstater said:
I'll have to tell that to my Mom in the burbs east of New Haven! Her home value fell precipitously in that time.
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Referring to majority at or near poverty level and a minority pushing up a small section of property values.
 
superjohn said:
Every small city in NY State is an absolute dump from what I've seen. Not familiar with Amsterdam but Poughkeepsie, Troy, Utica, Newburgh, Monticello, Niagara Falls, Utica, Schenectady etc. are bad. NY State has a lot of natural beauty but if you didn't know any better you would think you're in Mississippi.
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My grandson moved to Newbugh afewyears after graduation. It has many beautiful sections as well as not so nice ones. He took us to a not so nice section to eat, a small restaurant with a few tables. Food was excellent! Brick chicken yum.
No problems.
 
superjohn said:
It's a beautiful campus right on the Hudson. A long time since I visited but the campus was completely safe and enclosed. Poughkeepsie was a burnt out dump but there would really be no reason for kids to hang out in those areas.
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The Marist campus is gorgeous. Pughkeepsie is not.
 
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Towney007 said:
The Marist campus is gorgeous. Pughkeepsie is not.
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I remember visiting there as a high school kid and thinking that its buildings looked like prisons- all that gray. Perfectly manicured grass, though.
 
upstater said:
Some of these are great little towns. Troy and Niagara Falls. As for NF, the area near the Falls is rough, but the homes in the neighborhoods in the city itself are really nice. I lived in Troy for 4 years, it's a teeny city, but I really liked living there. I lived around Washington Park, which is the Park around which "Night Before Christmas" was written. Great buildings all around town. I wonder what you saw that made you think it was dumpy. Utica I found can be dumpy, Amsterdam was weird and very rough. But Troy and NF are not bad at all. People get the wrong impression because of the area near the Falls.
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Ithaca is Gorges
 
upstater said:
I know it well. I lived there. Someone recently said that the Ruck, which opened when I got there, is still there 25 years later. I did say it's a teeny city (basically I meant the central downtown area was nice) and yes, as you drive up toward Cohoes, things get sketchy quick. I lived around Washington Park back then.
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The Ruck still there and still busy. Was there on a pub crawl this summer and it was a min scene. Good beer selection.
 
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superjohn said:
Every small city in NY State is an absolute dump from what I've seen. Not familiar with Amsterdam but Poughkeepsie, Troy, Utica, Newburgh, Monticello, Niagara Falls, Utica, Schenectady etc. are bad. NY State has a lot of natural beauty but if you didn't know any better you would think you're in Mississippi.
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Whatever the topic, superjohn, you come up with some of the most uninformed comments going. Congrats.

I am from Colonie - the working class suburb of Albany. My Dad, a UCONN BS MS Pharmacy, landed as a Professor at the Pharmacy college in Albany and had a 55 year career. Myself, my daughter and about 10 cousins (the family is from Derby - Shelton - Southbury) enjoyed our years at UCONN; we are stakeholders and true blue.

Today, I work in real estate with projects in Albany and Hudson NY ... and Baltimore and Atlanta. Student housing parcel just went under contract in Chattanooga.

For me, the most compelling thing you can say about Upstate (Westchester people - where I live now - say it starts at the Tappan Zee (not Mario Cuomo BR) is the move of NYC money up the Hudson. This is also true of Stamford and Greenwich; Rye & White Plains & Scarsdale. It is true of NJ: Bergen County and now the amazing transformation of Asbury Park. In Hudson NY (formerly the Albany area center of whorehouses and drugs - see pre 1990) you could buy 1860-1910 houses for $90k in the 1990s; today they are selling for $1.2 to $1.9m. Why is that? It is the young people coming up on the train from Penn Station (Brooklyn or Manhattan) seeing value. The Airbnbs (there are over 170 of them in Hudson - a city with normal population of 7400) are highly priced. The counties Dutchess (I guess you exclude Poughkeepsie) to Columbia to eastern Rensselaer to Berkshire ... to Litchfield CT are all seeing slices of this. Culinary - Wineries/Breweries - Home Goods (lots of internet focus) - Art - Music. The Jitney that only used to go to the Hamptons now goes up to Columbia Cty. Westside Manhattan wealth are buying near Woodstock.

There's not much going on in Connecticut beyond the same pattern. I love Rochester; I love parts of many upstate cities. But the real engine is the wealth seeping out of NYC. That's probably similar to NH from Boston; Delaware from Philly. Both Toronto & Montreal are booming; but few (other than Burlington VT) feel that.

Amsterdam? Used to be mostly Italian & Polish when I was a kid (hmmm sounds like Derby); today, it is Hispanic. Rough? Well ... immigrant and it's developing.
 
superjohn said:
It's a beautiful campus right on the Hudson. A long time since I visited but the campus was completely safe and enclosed. Poughkeepsie was a burnt out dump but there would really be no reason for kids to hang out in those areas.
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post/avatar?
 
Pudge said:
Whatever the topic, superjohn, you come up with some of the most uninformed comments going. Congrats.

I am from Colonie - the working class suburb of Albany. My Dad, a UCONN BS MS Pharmacy, landed as a Professor at the Pharmacy college in Albany and had a 55 year career. Myself, my daughter and about 10 cousins (the family is from Derby - Shelton - Southbury) enjoyed our years at UCONN; we are stakeholders and true blue.

Today, I work in real estate with projects in Albany and Hudson NY ... and Baltimore and Atlanta. Student housing parcel just went under contract in Chattanooga.

For me, the most compelling thing you can say about Upstate (Westchester people - where I live now - say it starts at the Tappan Zee (not Mario Cuomo BR) is the move of NYC money up the Hudson. This is also true of Stamford and Greenwich; Rye & White Plains & Scarsdale. It is true of NJ: Bergen County and now the amazing transformation of Asbury Park. In Hudson NY (formerly the Albany area center of whorehouses and drugs - see pre 1990) you could buy 1860-1910 houses for $90k in the 1990s; today they are selling for $1.2 to $1.9m. Why is that? It is the young people coming up on the train from Penn Station (Brooklyn or Manhattan) seeing value. The Airbnbs (there are over 170 of them in Hudson - a city with normal population of 7400) are highly priced. The counties Dutchess (I guess you exclude Poughkeepsie) to Columbia to eastern Rensselaer to Berkshire ... to Litchfield CT are all seeing slices of this. Culinary - Wineries/Breweries - Home Goods (lots of internet focus) - Art - Music. The Jitney that only used to go to the Hamptons now goes up to Columbia Cty. Westside Manhattan wealth are buying near Woodstock.

There's not much going on in Connecticut beyond the same pattern. I love Rochester; I love parts of many upstate cities. But the real engine is the wealth seeping out of NYC. That's probably similar to NH from Boston; Delaware from Philly. Both Toronto & Montreal are booming; but few (other than Burlington VT) feel that.

Amsterdam? Used to be mostly Italian & Polish when I was a kid (hmmm sounds like Derby); today, it is Hispanic. Rough? Well ... immigrant and it's developing.
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Geezus, this was an indecipherable scrawl.

Obviously struck a nerve with you and I would like to go through this point by point but there doesn't really seem to be any point. Some NYC people with money have moved north of the city, no s****.

Yep, Hudson isn't all brothels anymore and some city folk bought property there but you're an idiot if you think it isn't still depressed. You barely have to get off Warren Street to see how poor some areas are. My opinion isn't a controversial one, of course there are some really nice towns and there are enclaves with money, even great wealth but there is a large amount of poverty in upstate NY. My eyes and the numbers don't lie. Towns like Hudson and Kingston have embraced the arts, had NY Times articles written about them, and have cleaned up some areas but they are still struggling, again my eyes and more importantly the numbers don't lie. The other places I mentioned have far more problems.

Interesting you tell me I'm uninformed yet you don't bring up a single town I brought up to refute a single thing I said. Instead you bring up Asbury Park, Litchfield, and Canada. A little advice, if you're going to tell someone they're ill informed you should actually try and inform them about the subject you're calling them out on.

This is still better than you talking about basketball and how great Ollie is though.
 
Pudge said:
Whatever the topic, superjohn, you come up with some of the most uninformed comments going. Congrats.

I am from Colonie - the working class suburb of Albany. My Dad, a UCONN BS MS Pharmacy, landed as a Professor at the Pharmacy college in Albany and had a 55 year career. Myself, my daughter and about 10 cousins (the family is from Derby - Shelton - Southbury) enjoyed our years at UCONN; we are stakeholders and true blue.

Today, I work in real estate with projects in Albany and Hudson NY ... and Baltimore and Atlanta. Student housing parcel just went under contract in Chattanooga.

For me, the most compelling thing you can say about Upstate (Westchester people - where I live now - say it starts at the Tappan Zee (not Mario Cuomo BR) is the move of NYC money up the Hudson. This is also true of Stamford and Greenwich; Rye & White Plains & Scarsdale. It is true of NJ: Bergen County and now the amazing transformation of Asbury Park. In Hudson NY (formerly the Albany area center of whorehouses and drugs - see pre 1990) you could buy 1860-1910 houses for $90k in the 1990s; today they are selling for $1.2 to $1.9m. Why is that? It is the young people coming up on the train from Penn Station (Brooklyn or Manhattan) seeing value. The Airbnbs (there are over 170 of them in Hudson - a city with normal population of 7400) are highly priced. The counties Dutchess (I guess you exclude Poughkeepsie) to Columbia to eastern Rensselaer to Berkshire ... to Litchfield CT are all seeing slices of this. Culinary - Wineries/Breweries - Home Goods (lots of internet focus) - Art - Music. The Jitney that only used to go to the Hamptons now goes up to Columbia Cty. Westside Manhattan wealth are buying near Woodstock.

There's not much going on in Connecticut beyond the same pattern. I love Rochester; I love parts of many upstate cities. But the real engine is the wealth seeping out of NYC. That's probably similar to NH from Boston; Delaware from Philly. Both Toronto & Montreal are booming; but few (other than Burlington VT) feel that.

Amsterdam? Used to be mostly Italian & Polish when I was a kid (hmmm sounds like Derby); today, it is Hispanic. Rough? Well ... immigrant and it's developing.
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2of my sons live in Southern NewHampshire. They love it but now the New Yorkers are moving in and of course the housing prices go up. Rents are crazy with prices.
Some people from Boston also, depends on the area but more New Yorkers.
I live in a little town right on this sound in SE Ct. years ago their were many, many NYers in town but not so many today. They originally rented for the summer lately they have been buying.
Everyone hopes that the RR will never run trains atraight from NY to New London.
 
superjohn said:
Geezus, this was an indecipherable scrawl.

Obviously struck a nerve with you and I would like to go through this point by point but there doesn't really seem to be any point. Some NYC people with money have moved north of the city, no s****.

Yep, Hudson isn't all brothels anymore and some city folk bought property there but you're an idiot if you think it isn't still depressed. You barely have to get off Warren Street to see how poor some areas are. My opinion isn't a controversial one, of course there are some really nice towns and there are enclaves with money, even great wealth but there is a large amount of poverty in upstate NY. My eyes and the numbers don't lie. Towns like Hudson and Kingston have embraced the arts, had NY Times articles written about them, and have cleaned up some areas but they are still struggling, again my eyes and more importantly the numbers don't lie. The other places I mentioned have far more problems.

Interesting you tell me I'm uninformed yet you don't bring up a single town I brought up to refute a single thing I said. Instead you bring up Asbury Park, Litchfield, and Canada. A little advice, if you're going to tell someone they're ill informed you should actually try and inform them about the subject you're calling them out on.

This is still better than you talking about basketball and how great Ollie is though.
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Needless to say … other people are making money purchasing real estate … and you aren't.
 
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imno1 said:
I’m learning so much about Andre Jackson here. Really looking forward to seeing him in a husky uni
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Fishy is going to lock this one soon I expect.
 
If you want to dismiss old manufacturing cities in the Northeastern US, I can help.

Frankly, there's plenty down the street from you. You don't have to search far. It's not Poughkeepsie that you should turn up your nose at … it is Willimantic or New Britain, Bridgeport or Ansonia/Derby.

Watching billions of dollars in commercial mortgages over the last 30 years - mostly upstate NY, I can remember entire half decades when no institutional lender would venture into Syracuse. For the most riskless investment: Anchored grocery with a drug store. That is past. That is the message; even Syracuse has had a renaissance. There are still painfully ugly blight near us. But, many formerly dumpster fire urban crack has been redeveloped. Troy? (formerly the Troylet)

That's the good news of the Northeast. The real burning issue is the creep of money from the cauldron of developing wealth of the NYC Bostons. You can still find the blight; but I wouldn't necessarily point to the immigrant communities - some of them are excitingly vibrant.
 
Pudge said:
If you want to dismiss old manufacturing cities in the Northeastern US, I can help.

Frankly, there's plenty down the street from you. You don't have to search far. It's not Poughkeepsie that you should turn up your nose at … it is Willimantic or New Britain, Bridgeport or Ansonia/Derby.

Watching billions of dollars in commercial mortgages over the last 30 years - mostly upstate NY, I can remember entire half decades when no institutional lender would venture into Syracuse. For the most riskless investment: Anchored grocery with a drug store. That is past. That is the message; even Syracuse has had a renaissance. There are still painfully ugly blight near us. But, many formerly dumpster fire urban crack has been redeveloped. Troy? (formerly the Troylet)

That's the good news of the Northeast. The real burning issue is the creep of money from the cauldron of developing wealth of the NYC Bostons. You can still find the blight; but I wouldn't necessarily point to the immigrant communities - some of them are excitingly vibrant.
Expand ...

This is all so off topic. But I don't think this is isolated or just NY Boston wealth creep. It's about telecommuting, working from home and ridiculously unaffordable real estate in the hottest major cities. That bubble will deflate. Current estimates are that the number of remote workers is going to increase dramatically in the next 5-10 years. People will increasingly choose to live in small cities that are affordable and we will see brewpubs, restaurants and other services rise in conjunction with that. It's happening elsewhere.

Worcester is a good example. Definitely looking up.
 
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Pudge said:
If you want to dismiss old manufacturing cities in the Northeastern US, I can help.

Frankly, there's plenty down the street from you. You don't have to search far. It's not Poughkeepsie that you should turn up your nose at … it is Willimantic or New Britain, Bridgeport or Ansonia/Derby.

Watching billions of dollars in commercial mortgages over the last 30 years - mostly upstate NY, I can remember entire half decades when no institutional lender would venture into Syracuse. For the most riskless investment: Anchored grocery with a drug store. That is past. That is the message; even Syracuse has had a renaissance. There are still painfully ugly blight near us. But, many formerly dumpster fire urban crack has been redeveloped. Troy? (formerly the Troylet)

That's the good news of the Northeast. The real burning issue is the creep of money from the cauldron of developing wealth of the NYC Bostons. You can still find the blight; but I wouldn't necessarily point to the immigrant communities - some of them are excitingly vibrant.
Expand ...
Yes Syracuse is doing great, top 10 nationally in poverty and childhood poverty. Numbers trending up in poverty as the poverty rate nationwide is trending down. One out of every two kids in Syracuse is living in poverty. It's really doing great, a true renaissance.
 
superjohn said:
Yes Syracuse is doing great, top 10 nationally in poverty and childhood poverty. Numbers trending up in poverty as the poverty rate nationwide is trending down. One out of every two kids in Syracuse is living in poverty. It's really doing great, a true renaissance.
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I'll say this again. Poverty rates are not always accurate measures in this discussion. They typically have more to do with other systemic factors. We have problems with segregation, lack of investment in red zone areas, etc., that have a lot to do with our poverty rates. But looking at things through that lens alone would also render the USA into 3rd world country, since our poverty rates are sky-high compared to our cohort countries. Now, many of them actually do believe this would be an accurate assessment of the USA, but I'm just saying it leaves a lot of development out, not to mention the impact of wealth in other areas (both good impacts and bad).
 
upstater said:
I know this is true of many places. A few others though still have jobs and culture and are not doing badly. People might be heavily surprised by Buffalo, Troy and a few others. Home prices have skyrocketed. People are pouring into town.
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The Rochester area is pretty healthy as well -- I can tell you from having bought a house there this year. Two top research universities, big time medical facilities, optics industry, etc. Some of the best public schools in the country are in those suburbs.

Get out of the suburbs though and drive west (toward Buffalo), east (towards Syracuse), or south (towards Corning), and it gets depressing pretty fast. Of course, part of that is the weather 8 months of the year.
 
superjohn said:
Yes Syracuse is doing great, top 10 nationally in poverty and childhood poverty. Numbers trending up in poverty as the poverty rate nationwide is trending down. One out of every two kids in Syracuse is living in poverty. It's really doing great, a true renaissance.
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As someone who know upstate (unlike you) ...

There's poverty. Many upstate cities had awful crack single parent 80s and 90s. I can say unreservedly, knowing the four major upstate cities quite well, Syracuse has a dynamic business community and great city pride. They work well together and it shows when you meet one after the other. I think that is the University. As you might expect, (and because they are in the middle) you are very likely to find Syracuse business leaders in the other 3 cities; whereas you aren't likely to find Albany guys in Rochester or Buffalo … and vice versa.
 
upstater said:
I'll say this again. Poverty rates are not always accurate measures in this discussion. They typically have more to do with other systemic factors. We have problems with segregation, lack of investment in red zone areas, etc., that have a lot to do with our poverty rates. But looking at things through that lens alone would also render the USA into 3rd world country, since our poverty rates are sky-high compared to our cohort countries. Now, many of them actually do believe this would be an accurate assessment of the USA, but I'm just saying it leaves a lot of development out, not to mention the impact of wealth in other areas (both good impacts and bad).
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Average income for a Buffalo resident is 20K per year, median home per square foot $88, third highest poverty rate in the country for cities with a pop. of 250,000 or more after Detroit and Cleveland.

Your response, none of that means it's poor because there are houses going for over a million dollars.
 
HuskyHawk said:
This is all so off topic. But I don't think this is isolated or just NY Boston wealth creep. It's about telecommuting, working from home and ridiculously unaffordable real estate in the hottest major cities. That bubble will deflate. Current estimates are that the number of remote workers is going to increase dramatically in the next 5-10 years. People will increasingly choose to live in small cities that are affordable and we will see brewpubs, restaurants and other services rise in conjunction with that. It's happening elsewhere.

Worcester is a good example. Definitely looking up.
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of course this is wildly Off Topic

You are right. People are going to live remote … and raise families in communities by choice. Worcester is interesting. Schenectady is far better than 15 years ago. etc etc

Any broad statement - Upstate is this - is likely easily proven wrong in the coming years. Fact is … New York State funds its suburban public schools FAR better than New England states - particularly Connecticut. The quirk of Politics: NYS Assembly is the NYC centric bigger body and has always pushed for greater funding of infrastructure and city needs (think Subway and go on) (read Democratic) and NYS Senate largely have gerrymandered suburban districts and promote suburban School funding far more (read Republican). For most of my lifetime, the Governor sat in the room with one Republican Senate Leader and one Democratic Assembly leader … and did deals. Net result are many many great suburban schools.

Then Preet Bharara came around.
 
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