Another missed opportunity for Vital | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Another missed opportunity for Vital

Rashad is 10 times better than vital Different types of players but please. Don’t insult shoddy. Not even close
 
HanDurley said:
I've said this since day one, but it sucks that it took an injury for most of us to finally see how dependent Vital, and this team, is on Jalen. Vital, along with team, desperately needs a play maker.
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Why did most of you think that? I sure as hell didn't. You don't remove a leading scorer, and frankly, best player, and get better. I don't care if he's a one man band.
 
ucp990411 said:
I would take Rashard 10 days out of 10.
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You'd get a much better shooter, but worse everything else.

Rashad was pretty one dimensional. But that could all be covered up by the other worldly talent he had around him.

He had one elite skill, and balls the size of grapefruits. Loved that guy.
 
gtcam said:
In addition - not convinced that Dan Hurley has also pulled in a bonafide sharp shooter
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Dead eye? Who knows? But both those kids can shoot. And for a 4, Akok can as well.

I'm much more concerned about beef down low.

Next year hinges on 2 things: 1. our current liability in the post, and 2. Gilbert's health. Neither of which I'm psyched about.
 
superjohn said:
Yes, asking Vital to be an elite player is asking way too much. He should be better than he was tonight though.
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He's not an elite player, of course, He's not even a very good player.

He's a role player forced into having to be more.

He's not a plus-athlete, so he's easily covered when he's the focus of an offense and you can't hide him on defense. (Especially on this team where you have about six guys who need to be hidden.) He's in a position to fail on nights like last night - not his fault. He still shows up and tries.
 
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ucp990411 said:
I would take Rashard 10 days out of 10.
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UCfor3 said:
Me too. Rashad was better than Vital. One of my favorite all time Huskies.
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JB75 said:
Rashad is 10 times better than vital Different types of players but please. Don’t insult shoddy. Not even close
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intlzncster said:
You'd get a much better shooter, but worse everything else.

Rashad was pretty one dimensional. But that could all be covered up by the other worldly talent he had around him.

He had one elite skill, and balls the size of grapefruits. Loved that guy.
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The numbers aren’t nearly as supporting.

Vital has almost as many win shares in 3 years as rashad in 4

He’s a better ft shooter (typically a better indication of shooting talent)

Anderson is 2% better form 3, but also played in the old court with the 3pt line a foot closer.

Anderson had huge grapefruits and a better shot selection.
 
the Q said:
The numbers aren’t nearly as supporting.

Vital has almost as many win shares in 3 years as rashad in 4

He’s a better ft shooter (typically a better indication of shooting talent)

Anderson is 2% better form 3, but also played in the old court with the 3pt line a foot closer.

Anderson had huge grapefruits and a better shot selection.
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Yes, but you can't leave aside the fact that he had far, far, far, far more talent to play with. Of course your 2pt % will be higher in that regard. He was a 4th/5th option. He also had better shot selection, because there were far more open shots to be had, given the talent difference and a well run offense.

Vital is a 5th option who has been forced to be 2nd/3rd his entire career. And yes, he has natural poor shot selection on top.

Rashard also had better coaching.

I'm not even trying to bash Rashad. I loved the guy. But he was limited as a player. He had one elite skill: being able to hit big @!#$!@ shots. And on a good team, that's usually more useful than being an all around marginal player.
 
intlzncster said:
Yes, but you can't leave aside the fact that he had far, far, far, far more talent to play with. Of course your 2pt % will be higher in that regard. He was a 4th/5th option. He also had better shot selection, because there were far more open shots to be had, given the talent difference and a well run offense.

Vital is a 5th option who has been forced to be 2nd/3rd his entire career. And yes, he has natural poor shot selection on top.

Rashard also had better coaching.

I'm not even trying to bash Rashad. I loved the guy. But he was limited as a player. He had one elite skill: being able to hit big @!#$!@ shots. And on a good team, that's usually more useful than being an all around marginal player.
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Oh I’m not either.

I’m More protecting vital than anything else.

Their talent levels based on role are basically the same. The problem is so is Polley and everyone else right now
 
the Q said:
Oh I’m not either.

I’m More protecting vital than anything else.

Their talent levels based on role are basically the same. The problem is so is Polley and everyone else right now
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Not gonna lie, but the first thought in my head when you mentioned 'win shares' was: 'win shares'? You actually have to win to have 'win shares' no? hahaha
 
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I loved Rashad Anderson and I'd love to have him on this team (or any UConn team) but he was about as one-dimensional as it gets. That one dimension happened to be making tons of jump shots at big moments, which is a hell of a dimension.
 
Fishy said:
He's not an elite player, of course, He's not even a very good player.

He's a role player forced into having to be more.

He's not a plus-athlete, so he's easily covered when he's the focus of an offense and you can't hide him on defense. (Especially on this team where you have about six guys who need to be hidden.) He's in a position to fail on nights like last night - not his fault. He still shows up and tries.
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Exactly. He's not a plus athlete, he doesn't have a plus handle, not a good passer, and is a streak shooter. He always plays hard and rebounds great for his position. He is a guy you want to come in for 10 minutes a game to inject some life into your team buy draining a couple threes and playing hardnosed defense. Asking him to be our best player shows what a mess things are.
 
BigEastLuva said:
Man. A month ago CV is our go-to guy and now he’s terrible.
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He was never the team's go-to guy. And he's not terrible.

Please stop wasting our bandwidth.
 
Fishy said:
He was never the team's go-to guy. And he's not terrible.

Please stop wasting our bandwidth.
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First, see the “CV has become our go-to guy by far!”.

Second, punch yourself in the throat. You frequently have the worst assessments on this entire board. A 1,000 point scorer even on a bad team is still a very good player.
 
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BigEastLuva said:
Man. A month ago CV is our go-to guy and now he’s terrible.
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Nobody said he is terrible. He is just not elite and if he is a go to guy we are in trouble. There are plenty of miles between terrible and elite go to guy. Hes a solid player that is kind of thrust into being more than what he is capable of. Nice role piece. As far as Rashad goes, you can give me percentages and stats all day long. The guy was one of the most clutch players in UConn history. The shot in the corner against Duke. We don't win #2 without that. The shot against Washington to force OT against the Brandon Roy team. Ridiculous. The sweet 16 game against Alabama where he was so hot he was blowing on his hands. He fell out of bed and hit more big clutch shots than so many players. His one dimension was lethal when it counted most. His impact went beyond the numbers. You just never felt like you were out of a game with him on the floor. He was a weapon plain and simple.
 
UCfor3 said:
Nobody said he is terrible. He is just not elite and if he is a go to guy we are in trouble. There are plenty of miles between terrible and elite go to guy. Hes a solid player that is kind of thrust into being more than what he is capable of. Nice role piece. As far as Rashad goes, you can give me percentages and stats all day long. The guy was one of the most clutch players in UConn history. The shot in the corner against Duke. We don't win #2 without that. The shot against Washington to force OT against the Brandon Roy team. Ridiculous. The sweet 16 game against Alabama where he was so hot he was blowing on his hands. He fell out of bed and hit more big clutch shots than so many players. His one dimension was lethal when it counted most. His impact went beyond the numbers. You just never felt like you were out of a game with him on the floor. He was a weapon plain and simple.
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You just read my mind completely. He was an automatic 3 point machine and completely saved an NBA ready roster from losing on multiple occasions.
 
Waquoit said:
It's like Scott Burrell's senior year. No one was left on the team from before and he assumed the go-to guy role without having go-to guy game.
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Most people should remember Albert Mouring.

If more people just understand his junior and senior seasons - the world would be a better place.
 
BigEastLuva said:
First, see the “CV has become our go-to guy by far!”.

Second, punch yourself in the throat. You frequently have the worst assessments on this entire board. A 1,000 point scorer even on a bad team is still a very good player.
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He’s not a very good player.

If you think he is just because he’s scored a thousand points, you’re just stone stupid.

There’s a reason this team has won about 40% of its AAC games in the three years Vital has been here - it’s because we’ve had Jalen Adams and a bunch of guys who just aren’t good enough to help him.


whaler11 said:
Most people should remember Albert Mouring.

If more people just understand his junior and senior seasons - the world would be a better place.
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Why?
 
Fishy said:
Why?
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Surrounded by a certain cohort of teammates - Mouring can hit almost half his three pointers as a junior.

Then when he returns as a senior with higher expectations and a different set of teammates that don’t allow him such freedom things don’t go so well.

When Vital is the third or fourth option in your offense he can be realtively efficient and productive. With weaker teammates where a defense focuses on stopping him his limitations are exposed.

With respect to this conversation, people seem to think players improve in a linear fashion and anticipate the combination of another year and higher usage would lead to positive things for Vital. In fact the opposite is true - more usage exposes him and he becomes less effective.

To answer your question more directly - if people better understood Mouring’s career it would mean they understood the context of results and there would be many fewer absurd takes here.
 
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I'm not sure this is relevant but I remember Rashamel Jones being one of our best players/scorers his first couple years. When we.got better players he took a backseat and when he was a senior we won a ship in 99. He was a.bit part on that team. Kind of reminds me of Vital. When your team is middling, someone has to to put up numbers and be responsible for scoring. When your team is nails, guys like that fade into a role and make way for the alphas. Hopefully next year we start ushering in some alphas.
 
whaler11 said:
Most people should remember Albert Mouring.

If more people just understand his junior and senior seasons - the world would be a better place.
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Not his fault that the only person he could take off the dribble turned out to be Corey Magette.
 
I felt bad for Vital at SMU. He fell back into the habits he has developed over his first two years. He tried to do too much on the offensive end...more than he should ever try to do. Coach Hurley has really gotten him to play more to his strengths this year. On Thursday, when the team was getting pasted, the kid tried to do more than he is capable of doing. The difference between this year and last year (one of the many differences) is that this coach isn't tolerating that kind of play out of him. With that being said, what else was the issue with Vital and Wilson? Who knows? Whatever it is (was), the message apparently was sent.
 
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