Analysis of post-game comments from 7 losses | Page 3 | The Boneyard

Analysis of post-game comments from 7 losses

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I don't agree. If KML didn't play, or was on Duke's team, Duke would have won or least been a lot closer. McCallie recruits athletes, Geno recruits bball players and shooters. He of course runs a great O and D, which McCallie doesn't know how to do. Still, he gets the best player year after year at the guard, forward and center position. He won with DT and Maya, and will continue to win KML and Stewie. It comes down to personnel, he gets them.

You are assuming that if KML was on Duke's team and playing against UConn, she would have been open to
shoot. Liston is very good from 3pt range (55% for the season before Tuesday) but that did not do her any good.
Hayley is also a very good 3pt shooter... same result.
 
You are assuming that if KML was on Duke's team and playing against UConn, she would have been open to
shoot. Liston is very good from 3pt range (55% for the season before Tuesday) but that did not do her any good.
Hayley is also a very good 3pt shooter... same result.

Please, Liston and KML are not in the same league. KML is the best 3 pt shooter in the land. During the game, Doris said it was a battle between KML and Stewie for National POY. Duke doesn't have one candidate, not even close.
Cam can talk about player rankings all he wants, but unless Duke and other schools string together year after year, THE best player, UConn will always win, by a lot. Zzzzzzzz
 
Cam can talk about player rankings all he wants, but unless Duke and other schools string together year after year, THE best player, UConn will always win, by a lot. Zzzzzzzz

Amazing how schools like Texas A&M could win the national title or schools like Louisville, Oklahoma, etc. can make Finals Fours with less talent. Top three/four recruiting classes, a roster with double-digit HS AA players, and nothing to show for it.
 
Well for sure. Do the math - one Icebear's body mass = two human players when it comes to setting a screen. :)
Adult male icebear are up to 11' tall and 1000-1200 pounds. You know some pretty big humans.
 
Amazing how schools like Texas A&M could win the national title or schools like Louisville, Oklahoma, etc. can make Finals Fours with less talent. Top three/four recruiting classes, a roster with double-digit HS AA players, and nothing to show for it.
Yep, there are a lot of factors in certain years that can go into making the FF, or the NC, or winning it all. Cal was a decent team last year but in some years would have been lucky to make the Sweet 16 let alone the FF like last year. Baylor had a lot of talent last year but didn't make the E8. You can assemble a lot of great parts and not get far, or you can have decent E8 level talent and bust your way through to the NC like Louisville last year. Nothing is preordained when the recruiting classes are nailed down, and teams have a whole lot of free will in deciding how far they're going to go.
 
Amazing how schools like Texas A&M could win the national title or schools like Louisville, Oklahoma, etc. can make Finals Fours with less talent. Top three/four recruiting classes, a roster with double-digit HS AA players, and nothing to show for it.

I don't disagree Duke has underachieved with the talented recruiting classes under McCallie, but OU, Lville and A&M won't return to the F4 for quite a while. I'd put my money on Duke over them this year and next. My point about the personnel was UConn has KML and Stewie, the top h.s. players in the country in back to back years. Geno didn't teach KML to shoot like that, nor Stewie being a 6'4" player who can hit a three. Those 2 players are game changers. Throw in Hartley and Dolson, it makes it harder for teams to defend them, so it's no wonder why they win, big.
 
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I don't disagree Duke has underachieved with the talented recruiting classes under McCallie, but OU, Lville and A&M won't return to the F4 for quite a while. I'd put my money on Duke over them this year and next. My point about the personnel was UConn has KML and Stewie, the top h.s. players in the country in back to back years. Geno didn't teach KML to shoot like that, nor Stewie being a 6'4" player who can hit a three. Those 2 players are game changers. Throw in Hartley and Dolson, it makes it harder for teams to defend them, so it's no wonder why they win, big.
But Geno got KML to post up and play defense and Stewie to pass. As Jim Foster said, he "does more with more."

He also made Stef, generally a top 30 high school player, into a consensus top 5-10 in her class.

I think that, in many years, one could argue that Stanford, Duke, ND, Baylor, or Tennessee has as much talent as UConn, based on expectations coming out of high school.

As another example, Tina Charles would have been an AA anywhere, but she became NPOY only because the UConn coaching staff pushed her.
 
At this point, I think McCallie could be coaching this year's UConn roster and Geno would still beat her by 20+ points with a starting lineup of IceBear, DoggyDaddy, EricSanDiego, Phil, and TonyC wearing an Al Brown sweater, with HuskyNan serving as Chris Dailey.
Sorry for being so late to the party, but OMG best post ever!
 
Sorry for being so late to the party, but OMG best post ever!
Yeah, it was. Part of the Joy of Cam.

Reflecting on it some things have become clear. DD and TonyC are playing out front. That is like the yin yang of guards. That leaves you, Phil, and me as the Posts. This makes sense since Posts are planted firmly in the ground and cannot move. I don't think we have a Wing............. or a prayer.

I believe we should play to our strengths which is clearly half court sets since I'm pretty sure we can't run full court more than couple of times per half without someone collapsing in pain or in laughter.
 
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Even Geno said that in the post game. 21 pts is a lot to make up, but if Duke played D, things may have been different.
IF KML was on Duke's team, I'm doubting UCONN leaves her open for 11 threes.
 
I don't disagree Duke has underachieved with the talented recruiting classes under McCallie, but OU, Lville and A&M won't return to the F4 for quite a while. I'd put my money on Duke over them this year and next. My point about the personnel was UConn has KML and Stewie, the top h.s. players in the country in back to back years. Geno didn't teach KML to shoot like that, nor Stewie being a 6'4" player who can hit a three. Those 2 players are game changers. Throw in Hartley and Dolson, it makes it harder for teams to defend them, so it's no wonder why they win, big.
Eh, where is all that coming from? Louisville is #3 in Sags right now but has no chance of going to the FF even though they made the NC last year when they were rated around #13 going into the tourney? Like, are you expecting some kind of injury to occur to Shoni or did you post that after a few too many wet ones?

And just because KML and Stewie knew how to shoot a 3 and do a few other things in HS doesn't mean that Geno and crew did not have a tremendous affect on Stewie's ability to bomb 'em in the FF or KML's 59% 3-pt percentage this year (in only 17 attempts). What you can do in HS often doesn't square with what you are able to do in college, and many HS dominators have not been able to reign supreme in college because they weren't worked with by their teams properly. They can't make those 3s when they're being fronted or someone is flying at them.

The germ of greatness is there for many players in HS, but those who reach greatness in college are a much much smaller bunch.
 
IF KML was on Duke's team, I'm doubting UCONN leaves her open for 11 threes.


Kara Lawson on Duke's defense...'do ya think after 1, 2 or 3.....I mean at what point do you figure you got to find KML at the 3 pt line'
 
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Eh, where is all that coming from? Louisville is #3 in Sags right now but has no chance of going to the FF even though they made the NC last year when they were rated around #13 going into the tourney? Like, are you expecting some kind of injury to occur to Shoni or did you post that after a few too many wet ones?

And just because KML and Stewie knew how to shoot a 3 and do a few other things in HS doesn't mean that Geno and crew did not have a tremendous affect on Stewie's ability to bomb 'em in the FF or KML's 59% 3-pt percentage this year (in only 17 attempts). What you can do in HS often doesn't square with what you are able to do in college, and many HS dominators have not been able to reign supreme in college because they weren't worked with by their teams properly. They can't make those 3s when they're being fronted or someone is flying at them.

The germ of greatness is there for many players in HS, but those who reach greatness in college are a much much smaller bunch.

I don't think Louisville will make the F4, last year was freakish, or Kim Mulkey's choke job.

I understand the difference between h.s. and college ball, I'm talking about god given talent, KML and Stewie have it (like Diana, Maya, etc). Again, I'm not talking about highly ranked players, but THE #1 player. Those players are game changers, you have them, and others don't.
 
I understand the difference between h.s. and college ball, I'm talking about god given talent, KML and Stewie have it (like Diana, Maya, etc). Again, I'm not talking about highly ranked players, but THE #1 player. Those players are game changers, you have them, and others don't.

And yet, Stanford had Nneka Ogwumike and Chiney Ogwumike, both of whom were ranked #1 by at least one national recruiting service, and did not win a national title.

Elizabeth Williams was ranked as the #1 recruit by more than one recruiting service (over KML), and Duke has yet to make the Final Four in her first two seasons.
 
And yet, Stanford had Nneka Ogwumike and Chiney Ogwumike, both of whom were ranked #1 by at least one national recruiting service, and did not win a national title.

Elizabeth Williams was ranked as the #1 recruit by more than one recruiting service (over KML), and Duke has yet to make the Final Four in her first two seasons.
You beat me to it, Cam.

Baylor won only one with the best center in WCBB for 4 years.
 
And yet, Stanford had Nneka Ogwumike and Chiney Ogwumike, both of whom were ranked #1 by at least one national recruiting service, and did not win a national title.

Elizabeth Williams was ranked as the #1 recruit by more than one recruiting service (over KML), and Duke has yet to make the Final Four in her first two seasons.

Agian, my point that UConn gets #1 player year and year in all positions. You can't win with just post player, see Griner. Stanford had two #1 players in twenty so odd years, they were two years apart and both post players. They did make it to 2 F4s when they played together, but we've always had bad luck with injuries to our guards. We should have won in Indy, but blew it, but A&M was a bad match-up for us in the back court, where the O sisters did not play. We should have won in San Antonio, too but Maya, clearly the #1 player, took over. Didn't help that Appel was hurt.
 
"So it’s a very good learning experience for us as a team.
"Without question it’s great for us to learn

There are some great lessons for us to learn from.
And I think, hopefully, we're going to learn a valuable lesson when we watch on film...
It's a great lesson for us. We need to learn.
we've got to learn from that.


QUESTION:
If we keep inviting her to Training Camp...
shouldn't we be charging tuition?
 
Everyone is saying what a great recruiter McCallie is and yes she has recently recruited a ton of talent but where is the growth of this Talent? As a coach is she getting the most out of her palyers?
Also Duke as a school has helped a great deal with the recruiting, strong academics, beautiful campus etc.
Bottom line with the talent she has had lately ,she has not done much in the NCAA tournaments. She is not a good X's and O's coach, cannot make half-time adjustments or game adjustments. I am not impressed. Also I have read a lot of things today and don't see much recognition for the job Uconn did against but rather " we did not rebound, play defense or offense", give Uconn credit for preventing this from Happening.
I think the major part of what "Duke needs" can't necessarily be resolved with half time adjustments or game adjustments. The coaching staff at UConn might tweak this a little or do that a little but primarily what makes them who they are starts in training camp. The relentless reinforcement of principles, the unwillingness to let the players have a play off, the demand for players to "strive for perfection", knowing that it'll never be attained but still the relentless search for it. To never be completely satisfied with your game because there's always something that you could have done a little better. When day after day, week after week you integrate these kids into that mindset, they're prepared for just about any contingency that could possible be put forth to them. They're less competing against Duke or Stanford or Louisville but more against themselves and that can't be something that could be thrown into a halftime coaches speech. You also have to have kids that are willing to buy into it because they've come to know what the rewards can and will be if they do so completely.
 
.-.
RE: Team Boneyard
(or "On a Wing and a Player")

I still have my ol' Bloomfield (orange 'n blue!) home whites.
I'll take a Wing!!

[However, if you take into consideration all of the drumsticks taken between then & now...
I wouldn't expect much on a "fast break"...
or any kind of fasting...
actually expect more like a coffee break...
is the Famous Manny's still open on Blue Hills Ave?]
 
I don't think for a second that McCallie is in the same league with Geno, but I would ask, assuming a UConn starting lineup of Dolson, Stewart, Mosqueda-Lewis, Hartley and Jefferson, 'which players on the Duke team would start at UConn?' ...certainly not Williams, Peters or Liston and probably not Jones...maybe Gray, but that's not a certainty either. 'Which Duke subs would play ahead of UConn's bench?' Chidom or Cooper over Tuck or Stokes? I don't think so. I don't think I'd take Jackson or Wells over Banks? Add in the best coaching staff in the game and is it so hard to see why Duke gets thumped?
Of course the UConn kids would be who you'd have in your starting lineup if you could have either. The reason is more how they developed in the UConn program than who was the better players coming out of high school. If you had a choice of Williams or Dolson coming out of high school, I think most people here would have probably gone with Williams but Williams hasn't developed to any extent at all while Dolson has continued to improve exponentially every year. Of course you'd have to be an idiot to prefer Williams at this point. You might have taken Gray instead of her UConn counterpart out of high school but at this point, probably not. Again, it has to do with how they've evolved. I think this holds true for most or all of the Duke players who's development hasn't been nearly as impressive as their counterparts on UConn. KML and Breanna are two exceptional players who anyone in their right mind would have taken out of high school before any of their peers. But even then, you can see how much KML has become so much more rounded a player in the two years plus she's been under Geno's wing. Hopefully, we'll see Breanna's development being comparable to KML's.
 
If Louisville gets to go to the Stanford regional with Stanford as the #1 seed, I can see them getting out of there to go to the Final Four. Louisville can shoot themselves into the Final Four like they did last year. I can also see them beating Duke if Duke is somehow able to get a #1 seed, especially if these two teams end up in Nebraska.

As of today, I like Louisville's chances of getting to the Final Four more then I like Duke's chances. Could easily change my mind if Duke is able to handle ND in ACC Conference Play.
 
Agian, my point that UConn gets #1 player year and year in all positions. You can't win with just post player, see Griner. Stanford had two #1 players in twenty so odd years, they were two years apart and both post players. They did make it to 2 F4s when they played together, but we've always had bad luck with injuries to our guards. We should have won in Indy, but blew it, but A&M was a bad match-up for us in the back court, where the O sisters did not play. We should have won in San Antonio, too but Maya, clearly the #1 player, took over. Didn't help that Appel was hurt.

"UConn gets #1 player year and year in all positions"

Not true.

2013? Nope. Chong, while she did win a couple of nice awards, is not the #1 player.
2012? Yep. Stewart
2011? KML some recruiting services but Williams was #1 in more
2010? Nope
2009? Nope
2008? For a minute. But Nope.
2007? Yep. Moore
2006? Charles? I don't know if she was #1 but close enough
2005? Nope
2004? Nope

Last 10 years.

Stewart - Forward/Center
KML - Forward/Guard
Moore - Forward
Charles - Center

I know they play like they have a #1 player at every position, but they don't. And guards are rarely #1. I hope you noticed that UConn didn't have any.
 
I don't think Louisville will make the F4, last year was freakish, or Kim Mulkey's choke job.

I understand the difference between h.s. and college ball, I'm talking about god given talent, KML and Stewie have it (like Diana, Maya, etc). Again, I'm not talking about highly ranked players, but THE #1 player. Those players are game changers, you have them, and others don't.
Sure, and Louisville won a few games after that choke job so it wasn't just a freak out, and being rated #3 so far puts them squarely in position to go back, which would be decidedly not freaky.

How many #1 players and AA's does it take to win an NC? Not sure. When you have a DT or a Parker that can take over a game, you just need a solid supporting cast. ND won a title with the main player being a post, though Riley had some strong players like Siemon and Ivey around her. But you wouldn't necessarily choose to go for an NC with MD's Langhorne, or Baylor's Young, or Texas A&M's Adams as your star player. Sometimes just a strong enough cast of non-superstars gets the job done.

And even with a DT for the 2003 and 2004 NCs against UTenn, who is the player that Vol fans often point to as the "killer"? Why a certain guard whose only god-given talent was to be slow and dependable, and whose crucial steals and 3's reminded the Orange that they never learned how to solve a problem like Maria.
 
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If Louisville gets to go to the Stanford regional with Stanford as the #1 seed, I can see them getting out of there to go to the Final Four. Louisville can shoot themselves into the Final Four like they did last year. I can also see them beating Duke if Duke is somehow able to get a #1 seed, especially if these two teams end up in Nebraska.

As of today, I like Louisville's chances of getting to the Final Four more then I like Duke's chances. Could easily change my mind if Duke is able to handle ND in ACC Conference Play.
If UConn beats Louisville by more than they beat Duke, does that change your mind?
 
No way Stanford beats Baylor if Sims plays 20+ minutes. Sims would have made more then a two point difference between 3 minutes played vs 20 minutes played. However, that game was an indication that Baylor's system relied on Sims and Griner for points and if either were taken out of the game for any period of time Baylor was beatable. That's what happened in Baylor's loss to Louisville.

Yes, it does. Look at the years UConn won vs when they didn't win or make it to the F4. Personnel (and health). I predicted Baylor would lose. Stanford beat them early in the year remember, even without Sims, because they didn't play like a team, 2 players cannot beat a good, smart team.
 
Geno always has said you need three great scorers to win a NC. Of course it doesn't hurt if you play great defense as well.
 
Agian, my point that UConn gets #1 player year and year in all positions. You can't win with just post player, see Griner. Stanford had two #1 players in twenty so odd years, they were two years apart and both post players. They did make it to 2 F4s when they played together, but we've always had bad luck with injuries to our guards. We should have won in Indy, but blew it, but A&M was a bad match-up for us in the back court, where the O sisters did not play. We should have won in San Antonio, too but Maya, clearly the #1 player, took over. Didn't help that Appel was hurt.

Actually, your point was they got the #1 player. Now it is that they get the #1 player at all positions?

Stanford had the Ogwumike sisters together for two years, plus the PAC 12 POY in Pohlen...and made the Final Four.

If you look at UConn, only KML and Stewart were the #1 players (and #1 at their positions). Hartley was highly regarded and a top ten player, but not #1 at her position. Dolson was not #1 at her position (and was a top 30-top 40 recruit by some recruiting services).

You are making your conclusion first, then trying to go back for the support. It is not there, and it is not true.

Duke has more elite level talent in terms of high school accolades/awards/All-American honors than any other team in the country and cannot sniff a Final Four. That has nothing to do with not getting the top overall player and more to do with the coaching and Xs and Os.
 
Having the #1 player in WCBB (not talking about high school rankings) usually results in a Championship (looking back through the 00s). But isn't that just common sense? Best player / best team is often a symbiotic relationship.

The only teams that failed to do it since 2001(looking at both AP and Naismith POY) were: LSU with Seimone Augustus. Duke With Beard. And Duke with Lindsey Harding. Admittedly, that's a very subjective calculation. The truly transcendent players in that time, were Maya, Diana, and Candace. They got 7 NCs among them.

All that said, it doesn't guarantee it. There are a whole lot of other variables.
 
Actually, your point was they got the #1 player. Now it is that they get the #1 player at all positions?

Stanford had the Ogwumike sisters together for two years, plus the PAC 12 POY in Pohlen...and made the Final Four.

If you look at UConn, only KML and Stewart were the #1 players (and #1 at their positions). Hartley was highly regarded and a top ten player, but not #1 at her position. Dolson was not #1 at her position (and was a top 30-top 40 recruit by some recruiting services).

You are making your conclusion first, then trying to go back for the support. It is not there, and it is not true.

Duke has more elite level talent in terms of high school accolades/awards/All-American honors than any other team in the country and cannot sniff a Final Four. That has nothing to do with not getting the top overall player and more to do with the coaching and Xs and Os.
Cam, I feel your pain, RU has had lots of talent over the years and a Hall of Fame coach, but no NC. Sometimes I think it has a lot to do with team chemistry and too many talented kids not really buying into the coach's system, just doesn't work. In such situations, you would be better off with lesser talent, but kids who enjoy playing together and believe in what the coach is selling (i.e Butler on the men's side). IMO coach P is a decent coach, but not on the level of Geno, Muffet or even GG., but there really aren't many out there who are. Who would you like to see take over the program?
 
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