Analysis of post-game comments from 7 losses

[CamrnCrz1974]

Camm - I do feel bad for you. But, while there was surely a thumping Tuesday night, I think my take on this year's game is a bit different from others. Once Duke got down, they didn't quit. They made a couple of runs, including one in the second half that surprised me a bit. Last year the Blue Devils totally gave up the ghost once they lost control of the game. Even though they didn't play a full hard 40-minute game, they showed some spark.

But last year, it was a two-point game at halftime. The run in the second half cut the lead to 13. The game was out of reach early; yes, there were runs, but the only suspense was the margin of victory.

Arguably, the best game between the two schools in the McCallie era was the 2012 game. This was the year after Maya Moore graduated (when Kelly Faris played power forward). Duke had the lead under five points in the second half, before losing by 16. And when the best loss is by 16 points (with Duke only scoring 45 points), that is still a blowout, especially when it was a game between top five teams.

 

[intlzncster]

But last year, it was a two-point game at halftime. The run in the second half cut the lead to 13. The game was out of reach early; yes, there were runs, but the only suspense was the margin of victory.

Arguably, the best game between the two schools in the McCallie era was the 2012 game. This was the year after Maya Moore graduated (when Kelly Faris played power forward). Duke had the lead under five points in the second half, before losing by 16. And when the best loss is by 16 points (with Duke only scoring 45 points), that is still a blowout, especially when it was a game between top five teams.

As I said before, it seems Duke's biggest problem is not playing all out for 40 minutes. There were times they buckled down and got to UCONN. UCONN generally plays all out with a sense of urgency for 35-40 minutes. When they got careless, Duke came back.

Somehow, McCallie has got to figure that out. It's a "lesson" she's never learned.

 

[cardfan]

At this point, I think McCallie could be coaching this year's UConn roster and Geno would still beat her by 20+ points with a starting lineup of IceBear, DoggyDaddy, EricSanDiego, Phil, and TonyC wearing an Al Brown sweater, with HuskyNan serving as Chris Dailey.

I don't agree. If KML didn't play, or was on Duke's team, Duke would have won or least been a lot closer. McCallie recruits athletes, Geno recruits bball players and shooters. He of course runs a great O and D, which McCallie doesn't know how to do. Still, he gets the best player year after year at the guard, forward and center position. He won with DT and Maya, and will continue to win KML and Stewie. It comes down to personnel, he gets them.

 

[intlzncster]

I don't agree. If KML didn't play, or was on Duke's team, Duke would have won or least been a lot closer. McCallie recruits athletes, Geno recruits bball players and shooters. He of course runs a great O and D, which McCallie doesn't know how to do. Still, he gets the best player year after year at the guard, forward and center position. He won with DT and Maya, and will continue to win KML and Stewie. It comes down to personnel, he gets them.

How do you figure? Someone else on UConn could have knocked down shots. It would have looked different of course, but it's not like you take out KML and all of a sudden all those points just suddenly disappear.

 

[pap49cba]

Card,

No, it doesn't just come down to "personnel". If that was the case how do you explain Baylor's loss last year with Sims and Griner?

 

[cardfan]

How do you figure? Someone else on UConn could have knocked down shots. It would have looked different of course, but it's not like you take out KML and all of a sudden all those points just suddenly disappear.

Even Geno said that in the post game. 21 pts is a lot to make up, but if Duke played D, things may have been different.

 

[cardfan]

Card,

No, it doesn't just come down to "personnel". If that was the case how do you explain Baylor's loss last year with Sims and Griner?

Yes, it does. Look at the years UConn won vs when they didn't win or make it to the F4. Personnel (and health). I predicted Baylor would lose. Stanford beat them early in the year remember, even without Sims, because they didn't play like a team, 2 players cannot beat a good, smart team.

 

[doggydaddy]

Even Geno said that in the post game. 21 pts is a lot to make up, but if Duke played D, things may have been different.

Yeah, they might have made it as close as the Uconn/Stanford game.

 

[intlzncster]

Yes, it does. Look at the years UConn won vs when they didn't win or make it to the F4. Personnel (and health). I predicted Baylor would lose. Stanford beat them early in the year remember, even without Sims, because they didn't play like a team, 2 players cannot beat a good, smart team.

You just contradicted your point? So, it's not just about personnel....

 

[pap49cba]

Yes, it does. Look at the years UConn won vs when they didn't win or make it to the F4. Personnel (and health). I predicted Baylor would lose. Stanford beat them early in the year remember, even without Sims, because they didn't play like a team, 2 players cannot beat a good, smart team.

IIRC, Stanford beat them when Sims was out or had gotten injured. I think she played like 3 minutes. Try again.....

 

[pvdoggy]

I don't agree. If KML didn't play, or was on Duke's team, Duke would have won or least been a lot closer. McCallie recruits athletes, Geno recruits bball players and shooters. He of course runs a great O and D, which McCallie doesn't know how to do. Still, he gets the best player year after year at the guard, forward and center position. He won with DT and Maya, and will continue to win KML and Stewie. It comes down to personnel, he gets them.

You are assuming that if KML was on Duke's team and playing against UConn, she would have been open to
shoot. Liston is very good from 3pt range (55% for the season before Tuesday) but that did not do her any good.
Hayley is also a very good 3pt shooter... same result.

 

[cardfan]

You are assuming that if KML was on Duke's team and playing against UConn, she would have been open to
shoot. Liston is very good from 3pt range (55% for the season before Tuesday) but that did not do her any good.
Hayley is also a very good 3pt shooter... same result.

Please, Liston and KML are not in the same league. KML is the best 3 pt shooter in the land. During the game, Doris said it was a battle between KML and Stewie for National POY. Duke doesn't have one candidate, not even close.
Cam can talk about player rankings all he wants, but unless Duke and other schools string together year after year, THE best player, UConn will always win, by a lot. Zzzzzzzz

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

Cam can talk about player rankings all he wants, but unless Duke and other schools string together year after year, THE best player, UConn will always win, by a lot. Zzzzzzzz

Amazing how schools like Texas A&M could win the national title or schools like Louisville, Oklahoma, etc. can make Finals Fours with less talent. Top three/four recruiting classes, a roster with double-digit HS AA players, and nothing to show for it.

 

[Icebear]

Well for sure. Do the math - one Icebear's body mass = two human players when it comes to setting a screen.

Adult male icebear are up to 11' tall and 1000-1200 pounds. You know some pretty big humans.

 

[DobbsRover2]

Amazing how schools like Texas A&M could win the national title or schools like Louisville, Oklahoma, etc. can make Finals Fours with less talent. Top three/four recruiting classes, a roster with double-digit HS AA players, and nothing to show for it.

Yep, there are a lot of factors in certain years that can go into making the FF, or the NC, or winning it all. Cal was a decent team last year but in some years would have been lucky to make the Sweet 16 let alone the FF like last year. Baylor had a lot of talent last year but didn't make the E8. You can assemble a lot of great parts and not get far, or you can have decent E8 level talent and bust your way through to the NC like Louisville last year. Nothing is preordained when the recruiting classes are nailed down, and teams have a whole lot of free will in deciding how far they're going to go.

 

[cardfan]

Amazing how schools like Texas A&M could win the national title or schools like Louisville, Oklahoma, etc. can make Finals Fours with less talent. Top three/four recruiting classes, a roster with double-digit HS AA players, and nothing to show for it.

I don't disagree Duke has underachieved with the talented recruiting classes under McCallie, but OU, Lville and A&M won't return to the F4 for quite a while. I'd put my money on Duke over them this year and next. My point about the personnel was UConn has KML and Stewie, the top h.s. players in the country in back to back years. Geno didn't teach KML to shoot like that, nor Stewie being a 6'4" player who can hit a three. Those 2 players are game changers. Throw in Hartley and Dolson, it makes it harder for teams to defend them, so it's no wonder why they win, big.

 

[MilfordHusky]

I don't disagree Duke has underachieved with the talented recruiting classes under McCallie, but OU, Lville and A&M won't return to the F4 for quite a while. I'd put my money on Duke over them this year and next. My point about the personnel was UConn has KML and Stewie, the top h.s. players in the country in back to back years. Geno didn't teach KML to shoot like that, nor Stewie being a 6'4" player who can hit a three. Those 2 players are game changers. Throw in Hartley and Dolson, it makes it harder for teams to defend them, so it's no wonder why they win, big.

But Geno got KML to post up and play defense and Stewie to pass. As Jim Foster said, he "does more with more."

He also made Stef, generally a top 30 high school player, into a consensus top 5-10 in her class.

I think that, in many years, one could argue that Stanford, Duke, ND, Baylor, or Tennessee has as much talent as UConn, based on expectations coming out of high school.

As another example, Tina Charles would have been an AA anywhere, but she became NPOY only because the UConn coaching staff pushed her.

 

[EricLA]

At this point, I think McCallie could be coaching this year's UConn roster and Geno would still beat her by 20+ points with a starting lineup of IceBear, DoggyDaddy, EricSanDiego, Phil, and TonyC wearing an Al Brown sweater, with HuskyNan serving as Chris Dailey.

Sorry for being so late to the party, but OMG best post ever!

 

[Icebear]

Sorry for being so late to the party, but OMG best post ever!

Yeah, it was. Part of the Joy of Cam.

Reflecting on it some things have become clear. DD and TonyC are playing out front. That is like the yin yang of guards. That leaves you, Phil, and me as the Posts. This makes sense since Posts are planted firmly in the ground and cannot move. I don't think we have a Wing............. or a prayer.

I believe we should play to our strengths which is clearly half court sets since I'm pretty sure we can't run full court more than couple of times per half without someone collapsing in pain or in laughter.

 

[sarals24]

Even Geno said that in the post game. 21 pts is a lot to make up, but if Duke played D, things may have been different.

IF KML was on Duke's team, I'm doubting UCONN leaves her open for 11 threes.

 

[DobbsRover2]

I don't disagree Duke has underachieved with the talented recruiting classes under McCallie, but OU, Lville and A&M won't return to the F4 for quite a while. I'd put my money on Duke over them this year and next. My point about the personnel was UConn has KML and Stewie, the top h.s. players in the country in back to back years. Geno didn't teach KML to shoot like that, nor Stewie being a 6'4" player who can hit a three. Those 2 players are game changers. Throw in Hartley and Dolson, it makes it harder for teams to defend them, so it's no wonder why they win, big.

Eh, where is all that coming from? Louisville is #3 in Sags right now but has no chance of going to the FF even though they made the NC last year when they were rated around #13 going into the tourney? Like, are you expecting some kind of injury to occur to Shoni or did you post that after a few too many wet ones?

And just because KML and Stewie knew how to shoot a 3 and do a few other things in HS doesn't mean that Geno and crew did not have a tremendous affect on Stewie's ability to bomb 'em in the FF or KML's 59% 3-pt percentage this year (in only 17 attempts). What you can do in HS often doesn't square with what you are able to do in college, and many HS dominators have not been able to reign supreme in college because they weren't worked with by their teams properly. They can't make those 3s when they're being fronted or someone is flying at them.

The germ of greatness is there for many players in HS, but those who reach greatness in college are a much much smaller bunch.

 

[johnnyc]

IF KML was on Duke's team, I'm doubting UCONN leaves her open for 11 threes.

Kara Lawson on Duke's defense...'do ya think after 1, 2 or 3.....I mean at what point do you figure you got to find KML at the 3 pt line'

 

[cardfan]

Eh, where is all that coming from? Louisville is #3 in Sags right now but has no chance of going to the FF even though they made the NC last year when they were rated around #13 going into the tourney? Like, are you expecting some kind of injury to occur to Shoni or did you post that after a few too many wet ones?

And just because KML and Stewie knew how to shoot a 3 and do a few other things in HS doesn't mean that Geno and crew did not have a tremendous affect on Stewie's ability to bomb 'em in the FF or KML's 59% 3-pt percentage this year (in only 17 attempts). What you can do in HS often doesn't square with what you are able to do in college, and many HS dominators have not been able to reign supreme in college because they weren't worked with by their teams properly. They can't make those 3s when they're being fronted or someone is flying at them.

The germ of greatness is there for many players in HS, but those who reach greatness in college are a much much smaller bunch.

I don't think Louisville will make the F4, last year was freakish, or Kim Mulkey's choke job.

I understand the difference between h.s. and college ball, I'm talking about god given talent, KML and Stewie have it (like Diana, Maya, etc). Again, I'm not talking about highly ranked players, but THE #1 player. Those players are game changers, you have them, and others don't.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

I understand the difference between h.s. and college ball, I'm talking about god given talent, KML and Stewie have it (like Diana, Maya, etc). Again, I'm not talking about highly ranked players, but THE #1 player. Those players are game changers, you have them, and others don't.

And yet, Stanford had Nneka Ogwumike and Chiney Ogwumike, both of whom were ranked #1 by at least one national recruiting service, and did not win a national title.

Elizabeth Williams was ranked as the #1 recruit by more than one recruiting service (over KML), and Duke has yet to make the Final Four in her first two seasons.

 

[doggydaddy]

And yet, Stanford had Nneka Ogwumike and Chiney Ogwumike, both of whom were ranked #1 by at least one national recruiting service, and did not win a national title.

Elizabeth Williams was ranked as the #1 recruit by more than one recruiting service (over KML), and Duke has yet to make the Final Four in her first two seasons.

You beat me to it, Cam.

Baylor won only one with the best center in WCBB for 4 years.