An Oregon Community College school shooting

[Jimmy Serrano]

Sorry for the aborted earlier post. What I had begun to write, and then decided to think over a second time before re-posting in full, is likely somewhat inflammatory and not exactly appropriate on a football forum. So, this will be my one and only post on this topic here.

I guess I feel pretty strongly about this issue; the mass shootings we've all seen across our country in the last few years. For me it's ultimately about love of country and all our law abiding citizens. Because of that I'm willing to take the slings and arrows that will surely follow posting the following. I just hope my fellow BYers will fairly and rationally consider an alternative viewpoint, one I've tried to support with relevant facts.

In this particular case and others unfortunately like it over the past few years, the action of a deranged killer points to something more insidious and malevolent than "just" uncontrolled violence with guns. Yes, mental health and criminality are to probably blame in some. But the ones I'm referring to point to deadly ideologies. In Charleston it was white supremacy. In today's case, as was the case with the shooting at Ft. Hood, the attack in Times Square, etc, it appears to be the ideology of radical Islam. I am not a hater of Islam nor any other religion, but let's not deceive ourselves for the sake of political correctness either. That's a potentially deadly mistake.

But back to today's horrible tragedy. According to a statement made by a middle aged woman in the classroom in which the shooting in Oregon occurred today, the shooter lined people up and asked if they were Christian. If they answered yes they were shot in the head. If they said no, or didn't answer, they were shot in the legs.

I'm all for doing everything possible to keep guns out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them--Big time, end of discussion. However, I doubt tougher gun laws would have prevented this crazy person and terrible crime, or others we've experienced recently. On the contrary, I believe that guns, in the hands of responsible, law abiding, trained citizens, are actually a good thing, an actual deterrent to crime. And I say that supported by facts as listed below.

But back to the shooting today, and I posit this only as an alternative viewpoint that I think we need to honestly consider, isn't it possible that the deranged killer today was smart enough to know that this Community College was designated a gun free zone and chose to go ahead with his rampage there as a result? Who knows for sure right now, I certainly don't, but you have to consider it possible.

If so, one can only wonder if he would have chosen this location if he knew there likely were people (responsible, law abiding, properly trained citizens) with concealed weapons on campus, and possibly even in that classroom? Most of the bullies and crazies I've known in my life were actually cowards and losers, when push came to shove.

I know what I've written is probably offensive to some here but, for the sake of having an informed, intelligent and balanced discussion on this issue, I think it's important to consider there may be valid, contrary viewpoints to consider on this issue of "gun violence"; especially one that is based on facts as follows.

Fact: Forty three states, comprising the majority of the American population, are “right-to-carry” states. Statistics show that in these states the crime rate fell (or did not rise) after the right-to-carry law became active (as of July, 2006).

Fact: Gun homicides were 10% higher in states with restrictive CCW (Concealed Carry Weapon) laws, according to a study spanning 1980-2009.

Fact: States that disallow concealed carry have violent crime rates 11% higher than national averages.

Fact: Deaths and injuries from mass public shootings fall dramatically after right-to-carry concealed handgun laws are enacted. Between 1977 and 1995, the average death rate from mass shootings plummeted by up to 91% after such laws went into effect, and injuries dropped by over 80%.

Fact: Multiple victim public shootings drop in states that pass shall-issue CCW legislation.

Fact: CCW holders have prevented or curtailed mass public shootings – Pearl, Mississippi (Pearl Junior High School), Edinboro, Pennsylvania (Parker Middle School), Winnemucca, Nevada (Players Bar and Grill), Colorado Springs, Colorado (New Life Church).

Fact: Of all the alternatives to preventing mass public shootings, police officers believe that civilian concealed carry is the most effective. 86% also believe mass shooting “casualties would likely have been reduced” or “avoided altogether.

In the end, though, having spent the time to research and post all of the above means nothing to the victims and their families. Now is a time for mourning and prayer for all of those affected, and for our country. May God bless those students, teachers, their families, and all of us, in this time of great challenge for our country.

That's a reasonable position. Not sure I agree with everything here but if people are offended by your post that is their problem, not yours.

 

[Pudge]

In 30 years, not one "mass shooting" has been stopped by an armed civilian.

If this is your answer to stopping these people, think again. You effectively have police departments arriving to do triage every time. There is no preventative measure, imo, by having armed guns at schools or malls.

 

[Dogged]

Forget getting rid of guns and video games.

Eliminating religion would be more effective.

I'm praying for you and Jimmy!

 

[Excalibur]

That's a reasonable position. Not sure I agree with everything here but if people are offended by your post that is their problem, not yours.

One of the by-products of everyone being offended so easily is the assumption that disagreement equals taking offense. It doesn't.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

One of the by-products of everyone being offended so easily is the assumption that disagreement equals taking offense. It doesn't.

That's exactly what I'm saying. His original post stated that his opinion may be offensive. It is not.

 

[ktuck911]

the reality in this country is people take offense based on assumptions all the time. Depending on demographics (that are as small as the tinyest of neighborhoods), along with race, social/sexist views, everyone's gonna view things their own way. Like Jimmy Serrano said if their offended it's "...their problem, not yours." The pros and cons of freedom in the US at its best.

 

[EdgewoodNHV]

Jim Jefferies is right.

 

[Excalibur]

This just sucks. What is wrong with this country and it is not just about guns?

A vast majority of citizens in Switzerland own guns as part of their mandatory militia service (thus nearly all have weapons training and screening) and yet they had 18 murders (out of 41 total) by firearms in 2014 out of 8.08 million or a rate of
0.0002% or 0.002 per 1,000. The US has a population of 318.9 million and in 2014 there were roughly 9,000 murders by firearms, which is a rate of 0.0028% or 0.028 per 1,000. That is a massive difference. Why? How?

The Swiss have a strict permitting process for private weapons (including registration), severely limit concealed carry, and don't allow ammunition in the home for the military-issued firearms.

On the larger discussion, I don't have a problem with concealed carry or permitting well-educated, responsible citizens from keeping and carrying guns. It's the ease of acquisition that I think is an issue, and one of many things we can do that could help to curb large-scale shootings, along with a dozen other things not related to guns.

There are two things I hate hearing in the discussion on guns and mass shootings --

1) "It's not __________, it's ____________". No, it's all of those things. This quote makes me want to pull my %&#ing hair out.

2) "________ wouldn't have prevented this" or "won't prevent the next one". While prevention is a noble goal, it's an unreasonable one. You're never going to eliminate risk. When people make prevention the measuring stick, basically what they're saying is "even if [this action] will make it more difficult for someone to do this in the future, it won't eliminate the problem altogether so we shouldn't try". That is just incredibly dumb.