An Impossible Challenge from the 2nd tier in Waco

[meyers7]

The original poster requested opinions on all time UCONN great as starters and 3 reserves so in a sense it is all up for debate. You and I will have to agree to disagree. There is no such thing as an opinion that "writes itself".

There is in this case. Anything else is just crazy.

 

[UcMiami]

If I remember correctly Geno's complaint was more directed at AAU where the Kids played too many games and hardly ever practiced. High school BB might be an extension of that same complaint but my main complaint about HS BB remains lack of good coaches-Typically the coach is taking on the job as an additional duty at the HS and the lack of standardization NY, NJ and PA for example should all have a shot clock in place at all HS levels. Not playing with a shot clock puts your kids at a severe disadvantage when/if they get to college.

Yeah - I noticed the typo when it was too late to edit - it was supposed to read:
Yes - the fundamentals are not being drilled into kids in practice and they aren't getting the same instruction outside of HS coaching during the HS OFF season according to Geno and many other coaches.

I actually think their a generally some very good HS coaches in most HS catchment areas and especially prep/catholic/private HS that do player recruitment so a lot of the best players are getting pretty good HS coaching. But I agree that the HS level is spotty - but then so is the college level, and I would say the pros as well!

 

[BroadwayVa]

IMO, no way! I love Mo, but Sue was athletic, saw the whole court, ran the team on the court with authority, was a terrific shooter, terrific passer, had that ultra competitive "compulsive winner" aura, and was truly the leader on the floor - all this long before her junior year. Total PG package (and still is).

Moriah is hugely athletic and a great shooter. Definitely not as consistently "clutch" in big games/big moments. She may get there next year, but she ain't Sue Bird yet.

I truly love Sue Bird but in their hay day I'd take Jefferson over Sue. Sue was Clutch--have you noticed who takes over when the bigs can't score?? I doubt Moriah will ever match the 3 from before half court or the buzzer beater to beat ND --that was pure Sue.
My wife lived one block from Christ the King and exemplifies the same characteristics as Sue--always up personality, nothing will defeat her, when she screws up, she immediately fixes it--so I'm bought into Sue. But IM not so humble opinion --I take Moriah. As for the "leader on the court" only after Shea graduated--Shea was Capt of that team and Sue had issues with Shea running the team while Sue was Point and got verbally beat up by Geno for all that went wrong on the floor. Moriah sees the total floor and makes amazing plays accordingly. Sue as long as Shea was there did not lead that team--although she had that responsibility--nice girl that Sue.

 

[BroadwayVa]

I truly love Sue Bird but in their hay day I'd take Jefferson over Sue. Sue was Clutch--have you noticed who takes over when the bigs can't score?? I doubt Moriah will ever match the 3 from before half court or the buzzer beater to beat ND --that was pure Sue.
My wife lived one block from Christ the King and exemplifies the same characteristics as Sue--always up personality, nothing will defeat her, when she screws up, she immediately fixes it--so I'm bought into Sue. But IM not so humble opinion --I take Moriah. As for the "leader on the court" only after Shea graduated--Shea was Capt of that team and Sue had issues with Shea running the team while Sue was Point and got verbally beat up by Geno for all that went wrong on the floor. Moriah sees the total floor and makes amazing plays accordingly. Sue as long as Shea was there did not lead that team--although she had that responsibility--nice girl that Sue.

Yeah - I noticed the typo when it was too late to edit - it was supposed to read:
Yes - the fundamentals are not being drilled into kids in practice and they aren't getting the same instruction outside of HS coaching during the HS OFF season according to Geno and many other coaches.

I actually think their a generally some very good HS coaches in most HS catchment areas and especially prep/catholic/private HS that do player recruitment so a lot of the best players are getting pretty good HS coaching. But I agree that the HS level is spotty - but then so is the college level, and I would say the pros as well!

With the advent of AAU long season playing, with little to no coaching, HS coaches are limited to addressing PLAYS and little fundamentals. Geno has lamented on this issue nearly a decade now. HS ages kids want to "play" ---what's to learn they score, isn't that the game--who needs defense when you score big???

 

[BroadwayVa]

If I remember correctly Geno's complaint was more directed at AAU where the Kids played too many games and hardly ever practiced. High school BB might be an extension of that same complaint but my main complaint about HS BB remains lack of good coaches-Typically the coach is taking on the job as an additional duty at the HS and the lack of standardization NY, NJ and PA for example should all have a shot clock in place at all HS levels. Not playing with a shot clock puts your kids at a severe disadvantage when/if they get to college.

Except in certain HS's around the land, Coaching is often a sideline job for a teacher. The good ones are dedicated to coaching, not classroom teaching. That's an extra cost some school system do not want to pay. So the private schools (include religious schools in that) often have the funds to pay for a dedicated coach and fundamentals become a big part of his or her teachings. This is not new --- going back 100 years in Ct you'll see superb coaches dominated in their specific sport. Some really great semi pro and college players coached HS and were less than successful in sports while teaching Biology. I know of successful Catholic schools whose coach was the Parish Priest and dedicated to no classroom only after school sports and confessions.

 

[Kaizen]

Bird, DT, Maya, Steward, Charles

Jefferson, Tuck, Chong (too many to select, hence select the current class).

 

[BroadwayVa]

If I remember correctly Geno's complaint was more directed at AAU where the Kids played too many games and hardly ever practiced. High school BB might be an extension of that same complaint but my main complaint about HS BB remains lack of good coaches-Typically the coach is taking on the job as an additional duty at the HS and the lack of standardization NY, NJ and PA for example should all have a shot clock in place at all HS levels. Not playing with a shot clock puts your kids at a severe disadvantage when/if they get to college.

Most of what you say I agree with and is accurate. I agree with Geno and the AAU experience--fundamentals seem lost to the number of games being played. Probably that alone has an impact on ACL's injuries in HS and College.
What I disagree with is NOT having a Shot Clock puts kids at a disadvantage in College. The adjustment to a shot clock is minimal. AAU kids and most HS schools play the "fast game". Maybe once in a while holding the ball comes into play and I believe that not having a clock has a great advantage to the lessor talented schools--and to me that's proper as frustrating as it is to watch--because I remember Uconn (men) playing URI without the clock score at half time like 7 to 8 and I listened to an hour of that championship game on the radio and enjoyed it because Uconn won.

 

[BroadwayVa]

Here are just some of the ways/reason IMO that the game has changed.
USA Basketball-High level instructions and competition at the prep level creates a pipe line such that UCONN can use this as a measuring stick-as in name the last UCONN recruit to not be invited to their USA basketball age group tryout? OK name the last UCONN recruit not to make USA basketball age group team?
NCAA Rule changes although recent allow coaches to spend more time with players in the off season actually coaching and instructing as long as they are on campus taking classes almost doubling the amount of time a coach can spend instructing.
Game Rules Changes-1 hand check on the perimeter can’t displace cutters & 10 second backcourt changes the pace of the game favors quickness and the more skilled offensive players.
Size, Skill level, & Strength of Players has exponentially increased. 6”4 Rebecca Lobo attempted 150 3Pt shots for her career. Stevie shoots that many in a season. Poor A’ja Wilson gets slammed by me and others for not being able to shoot the 3 ball and at 6’5” wants to be a guard. Jen Rizzotti was fast for her time, but I’m not sure you are timing her and MoJeff with the same instrument. Weightlifting is pretty much standardize across all programs now to the point that the next conditioning maybe to condition like the Marines-Wait I forget they did that also!
Social media and technology-Name a recruit that does not have a highlight tape on YouTube. How many “I saw Geno at this gym looking at this kid” have we seen on twitter. The main effect of this is we get introduced to these kids at an earlier age and God forbid these kids doesn’t correct their weaknesses buy the time the get to UCONN because someone will point it out after every game.
What really brought it home for me was reading Nan’s post in which she said “I love Rebecca to pieces but she's not athletic enough.” I am thinking huh, I agree with her today but when I was watching Rebecca playing she looked pretty darn athletic to me. So I take the easy way out and say yes the game has definitely changed- that is a lot easier that saying I turned into an old fogie.

NCAA rule to limit coaching contact is good is bad. Kids need time off away from BB and to study. But some adjustment must be made to improve skills during the off season--I'm not smart enough to say how to do it.
Game Rule Change--NADA. Hand checking is just another bump, push , pull, grab knock down slows down the game and is painful to watch.
Rebecca---maybe compared to someone like Stewie wasn't athletic but at her time and place she fit the bill nicely.

 

[mhshuskies]

I can't do it by holding it to 8. Everyone agrees on Bird, Taurasi, Stewart and Moore but I don't know how you can choose between any of the following: Lobo, Wolters, Charles, Sales, Bascomb, Rizoti, Abrasimova and Ralph.

 

[diggerfoot]

There is in this case. Anything else is just crazy.

I would have the same starting five as you, but this is a hypothetical and, hypothetically, some alternatives are not as crazy as you deem.
For example, Lobo was the better and player and more experienced center, yet Auriemma's put Wolters there because of the natural fit. Though Charles is not as versatile as Lobo, it's not far-fetched to think Auriemma's would move Charles as well. If he would move great players for a natural fit of Wolters at center, it's also not far-fetched that he might have one coming off the bench as well. There are a lot of qualifiers to this which lead us, particularly in hindsight, to leave Wolters off. But this is a hypothetical once again. If it is a plausible strategy for the great Auriemma, who are we to dogmatically deem it as crazy?

Another hypothetical argument can be made for Jefferson. I watched old tapes before this year's championship game. What many people don't realize is how much easier it is to accumulate assists and fewer turnovers in a perimeter oriented offense with a bunch of sharpshooters. Bird (and Taurasi of course) made passes to the post that I frankly don't think Jefferson is capable of doing. Having said that, if both Bird and Jefferson came to the team in the same year, I think Auriemma would give Bird the nod because of her leadership abilities, but I don't think it is "crazy" to think that, with all of Jefferson's gifts, she just might be given the nod if both started out on equal footing. It's not what I would do, but it's legit for people to take hypotheticals in various directions.

 

[hoophuskee]

I would have the same starting five as you, but this is a hypothetical and, hypothetically, some alternatives are not as crazy as you deem.
For example, Lobo was the better and player and more experienced center, yet Auriemma's put Wolters there because of the natural fit. Though Charles is not as versatile as Lobo, it's not far-fetched to think Auriemma's would move Charles as well. If he would move great players for a natural fit of Wolters at center, it's also not far-fetched that he might have one coming off the bench as well. There are a lot of qualifiers to this which lead us, particularly in hindsight, to leave Wolters off. But this is a hypothetical once again. If it is a plausible strategy for the great Auriemma, who are we to dogmatically deem it as crazy?

Another hypothetical argument can be made for Jefferson. I watched old tapes before this year's championship game. What many people don't realize is how much easier it is to accumulate assists and fewer turnovers in a perimeter oriented offense with a bunch of sharpshooters. Bird (and Taurasi of course) made passes to the post that I frankly don't think Jefferson is capable of doing. Having said that, if both Bird and Jefferson came to the team in the same year, I think Auriemma would give Bird the nod because of her leadership abilities, but I don't think it is "crazy" to think that, with all of Jefferson's gifts, she just might be given the nod if both started out on equal footing. It's not what I would do, but it's legit for people to take hypotheticals in various directions.

Interesting comment about assists vs turnovers. Why is it easier to accumulate less turnovers when on fastbreaks you're the primary ball-handler vs Sue Bird for 2 years having Ralph and DT? I'm not arguing --- but do you think having another terrific passer on your team helps you lessen the pressure of turnovers/assists?

You don't think she is cable? Really? I'm not arguing. But it will be interesting to see this year - her senior year, she'll have a big, wide-based center to pass into. Of course they'll do it only if NB shows she can make low post moves. It's one thing to score inside- it's another to be able to make low post moves.

Right now I'd give the edge to Bird too. I liked Bird's no fear to be able to shoot and score. This year I thought MoJeff took a huge, enormous step in that regard. So much so, that imo they are comparable. Another year- we'll see what MoJeff can do.

 

[Gus Mahler]

Which is more powerful: Recency bias or nostalgia bias?

 

[Wally East]

Which is more powerful: Recency bias or nostalgia bias?

A long time ago I said recency bias.

 

[meyers7]

who are we to dogmatically deem it as crazy?

I'm meyers7.

 

[geneticrex]

It depends on my mood at the time, so today I'll say.............

Jefferson
Taurasi
Moore
Lobo
Stewart

+

Bird
Charles
and flip a coin between Ralph, Aborsimova, Sales and KML.