An Impossible Challenge from the 2nd tier in Waco

[UcMiami]

Yes the game has changed but Sveta was still an Olympian and WNBA star until quite recently, and Sales was playing in the WNBA with the 2002 class and is still unchallenged as the steals leader at Uconn. Shea would have fit right in as well if her knees had not disintegrated.
Wolters would have a hard time keeping up with the road-runners on this team, But so would Dolson for example, but as both a defensive presence and as a low post offensive threat - watch out. William's is easily the career leader in FG percentage but she averaged only 10.6 ppg for her career and never scored more than the 13.5 she averaged as a freshman. Wolters scored almost twice as many points in her career and is #2 in career shooting percentage - #2 in career blocks, and #7 in rebounds.

Lobo - probably a speed issue as well though not as pronounced as Wolters - but she could is the career leader in blocks, one of only two players in Uconn history to average over 10 rebounds a game, and is number 4 in scoring average for her career. Stewart by the way has a chance to set a new record for blocks, but will be no where near Lobo in average blocks per game. (nor likely Wolters either.)

 

[Paul1969]

Bird, DT, Tina Charles, Maya, Stewie..............KML, Lobo, Tiffany Hayes

 

[UcMiami]

Would someone care to enumerate the ways the game has changed? Perhaps with specific examples?

Speed and athleticism of both the players and the game as well. But in reality not that much - what has really changed is that there are more highly skilled highly athletic players than 20 years ago. Lobo would still be a Stewart like player but probably with less floor game because no one thought to teach someone that tall guard skills. Tina would make Kara look slow, but then she would make Dolson look slow too.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

I'll double down on the Sue Bird, Diana Taurasi, Maya Moore, Breanna Stewart, Tina Charles starting five. My bench is different, though - Kerry Bascom, Nykesha Sales, and Moriah Jefferson. I love Rebecca to pieces but she's not athletic enough.

You are light a big - sorry Kerry, the purple haired big girl comes in .....

 

[meyers7]

My all time favorite Uconn Husky is Sue Bird--beautiful, talented, aggressive, and a leader. I say this with the kindest of intentions--at equal times in their careers Jefferson is much faster, makes excellent decision (so did Sue), and does things with the Basketball Sue never thought of doing. Jefferson's --drive, hesitate, pull back then attack move is pure Mo Jefferson and effective. Sorry Sue I hope you let me to still love U. Jefferson would be my starter.

Not yet. Bird (even if you disregard her as the best PG in the world - i.e. her professional career), was a NPOY, 3 time NLC winner, 1st team AP AA. All things Jefferson has yet to accomplish.

I'd have Jefferson as my reserve G though, due to her speed (change up the team) and defense, along with her offense. (as opposed to Montgomery, Sales, Ralph, Hartley, Rizzotti)

 

[CocoHusky]

Would someone care to enumerate the ways the game has changed? Perhaps with specific examples?

Here are just some of the ways/reason IMO that the game has changed.
USA Basketball-High level instructions and competition at the prep level creates a pipe line such that UCONN can use this as a measuring stick-as in name the last UCONN recruit to not be invited to their USA basketball age group tryout? OK name the last UCONN recruit not to make USA basketball age group team?
NCAA Rule changes although recent allow coaches to spend more time with players in the off season actually coaching and instructing as long as they are on campus taking classes almost doubling the amount of time a coach can spend instructing.
Game Rules Changes-1 hand check on the perimeter can’t displace cutters & 10 second backcourt changes the pace of the game favors quickness and the more skilled offensive players.
Size, Skill level, & Strength of Players has exponentially increased. 6”4 Rebecca Lobo attempted 150 3Pt shots for her career. Stevie shoots that many in a season. Poor A’ja Wilson gets slammed by me and others for not being able to shoot the 3 ball and at 6’5” wants to be a guard. Jen Rizzotti was fast for her time, but I’m not sure you are timing her and MoJeff with the same instrument. Weightlifting is pretty much standardize across all programs now to the point that the next conditioning maybe to condition like the Marines-Wait I forget they did that also!
Social media and technology-Name a recruit that does not have a highlight tape on YouTube. How many “I saw Geno at this gym looking at this kid” have we seen on twitter. The main effect of this is we get introduced to these kids at an earlier age and God forbid these kids doesn’t correct their weaknesses buy the time the get to UCONN because someone will point it out after every game.
What really brought it home for me was reading Nan’s post in which she said “I love Rebecca to pieces but she's not athletic enough.” I am thinking huh, I agree with her today but when I was watching Rebecca playing she looked pretty darn athletic to me. So I take the easy way out and say yes the game has definitely changed- that is a lot easier that saying I turned into an old fogie.

 

[meyers7]

You took the best point guard of all time off the starting team.
Bird is still on my team just not starting-see why below.

But she's not starting. That's the point.

And you made Moore a PG.
No, on this team DT the two time Lieberman Winner and UCONN alltime assist leader is the PG and a better choice IMO than Bird who is only 4th on the assist list.

Any and every time DT and Bird have played together, Bird is the PG and DT plays the 2. But if you know better than the best coaches in the world, well have at it.

And you put Charles at the 3.
Not really but I understand your confusion.
I should have been listed my starters this way:
Starters:
PG:Taurasi
SG: Moore
SF:Stewart
PF: Charles
C: Wolters
Reserves:
SF/PF: Bascom
C/PF Lobo
PG/SG: Bird

Yes you should have. But I really wasn't confused, just wanted to point out how you had messed up. Still even at this you have Moore as a 2G. She's not a 2G, never has been. She played mostly the 4 in college, and now plays the 3. Stewart can play the 3, but is really a 4. Charles can play the 4 but is really a 5. DT while can be PG (really a combo), she is much better at the 2. Especially when you can have the best PG in the world at the 1, why would you put DT there????

And you put Wolters before Lobo.
Yes I did and here is why. Both players made my team but Wolters is the starter because if you look at the champion season '95 the numbers were comparable 17.1 points & 9.8 rebounds for Lobo and 17 and 8 for Wolters. What gets lost in Wolters' numbers is that she actually increased her numbers over '95 season for the next two season when hardly anyone was paying attention. Wolters never shot below 62% for a full season while Lobo only shot above 50% 1 time- 54% in '94.

Lobo was playing the 4 most of the time, while Wolters was playing solely the 5. Hence the disparity in shooting %. (Lobo attempted 171 3 pt shots. Wolter's none.)
Lobo avg 10.1 rpg, Wolters (as a 5) avg. 7.0. Lobo had more Assists, Steals and Blocks than Wolters. Lobo was a better FT shooter and took more attempts. While Wolters was very good and does I think sometimes get overlooked, Lobo was better (and for this exercise more versatile).

If you want to put Wolters before Lobo, that's up to you, but it wouldn't be based on the numbers.

AGAIN, the starting line up is simple. Writes itself.
Bird (best PG in the world)
DT (best 2G in the world)
Moore (best 3 in the world)
Stewart (one of the top 4's in the world)
Charles (one of the top 5's in the world)

After that, then yea there can be debate.

 

[Wally East]

Here are just some of the ways/reason IMO that the game has changed.

Thanks for the very thoughtful response It was interesting seeing all of those things together.

I do wonder about the idea of the skill level being higher now than in the past. Isn't that something that Geno has complained about with recent high school classes? That they all just play a lot of games but don't actually practice a lot?

 

[UcMiami]

Thanks for the very thoughtful response It was interesting seeing all of those things together.

I do wonder about the idea of the skill level being higher now than in the past. Isn't that something that Geno has complained about with recent high school classes? That they all just play a lot of games but don't actually practice a lot?

Yes - the fundamentals are not being drilled into kids in practice and they aren't getting the same instruction outside of HS coaching during the HS season according to Geno and many other coaches.

On athleticism - the best gauge is probably the Olympics - every four years there are a number of new world records set for fastest and highest, longest, and strongest, and there are maybe half of those records that last 8 years and only a few 'freak' records that last 12 years or longer. But the changes, except for those 'freak records' are really minor incremental changes. What does change is the number of people who are able to match the eight or 12 year old former records.
So someone who was an outlier in terms of speed or leaping ability 12 years ago is now more 'average'. Add in increasing numbers of participants in women's basketball and improvements in especially shoes and the athleticism is 'better'.
Skill is a whole different issue - Sue Bird is still the career leader in 3pt FG percentage and single season - 13 & 15 year records. Lobo still leads in blocks and average rebounds per game - 21 year old records. Williams, Wolters, and Ralph make up the whole of the single year top ten on field goal percentage 13 - 21 yr old records. Sales in steals, DT in assists.

 

[Wally East]

Yes - the fundamentals are not being drilled into kids in practice and they aren't getting the same instruction outside of HS coaching during the HS season according to Geno and many other coaches.

On athleticism - the best gauge is probably the Olympics - every four years there are a number of new world records set for fastest and highest, longest, and strongest, and there are maybe half of those records that last 8 years and only a few 'freak' records that last 12 years or longer. But the changes, except for those 'freak records' are really minor incremental changes. What does change is the number of people who are able to match the eight or 12 year old former records.

Oh, definitely, definitely -- except most track and field records aren't new, they're old, especially women's records.

 

[Kibitzer]

I agree with the OP -- it's impossible! BUT, I can't resist taking a tongue-in-cheek shot. So here goes.

My starting five:

Conlon, Battle, Faris, Rizzotti, Swanier.​

Coming off the bench:

Diana, Maya, Stewie.

​

 

[j66kicker]

My all time favorite Uconn Husky is Sue Bird-- talented, aggressive, and a leader. I say this with the kindest of intentions--at equal times in their careers Jefferson is much faster, makes excellent decision (so did Sue), and does things with the Basketball Sue never thought of doing. Jefferson's --drive, hesitate, pull back then attack move is pure Mo Jefferson and effective. Sorry Sue I hope you let me to still love U. Jefferson would be my starter.

IMO, no way! I love Mo, but Sue was athletic, saw the whole court, ran the team on the court with authority, was a terrific shooter, terrific passer, had that ultra competitive "compulsive winner" aura, and was truly the leader on the floor - all this long before her junior year. Total PG package (and still is).

Moriah is hugely athletic and a great shooter. Definitely not as consistently "clutch" in big games/big moments. She may get there next year, but she ain't Sue Bird yet.

 

[RI Husky]

I agree with the OP -- it's impossible! BUT, I can't resist taking a tongue-in-cheek shot. So here goes.

My starting five:

Conlon, Battle, Faris, Rizzotti, Swanier.​

Coming off the bench:

Diana, Maya, Stewie.

​

Actually a pretty good starting 5!! No one has put in Ann Strother as a back up either!

 

[Wally East]

No one has put in Ann Strother as a back up either!

Does this surprise you?

 

[Gus Mahler]

Speed and athleticism of both the players and the game as well. But in reality not that much - what has really changed is that there are more highly skilled highly athletic players than 20 years ago. Lobo would still be a Stewart like player but probably with less floor game because no one thought to teach someone that tall guard skills. Tina would make Kara look slow, but then she would make Dolson look slow too.

But would Dolson make Kara look slow?

 

[blaqtech]

The game has changed dramatically since Lobo played same is true of Sales and Bascom. Yet I doubt any Uconn fan can argue with Sue Bird, Swin Cash, Asyia Jones (?), Tamika William, DT except for lacking in size (compared to Wolters, Lobo, Stef, Stewie, ) they were, as a team, exceptional and made the game of Women's Basketball look faster, more accurate, and yes thrilling than many of the Men's games then. But for pure heart warming thrill --watch Jefferson on the fly she just proves the different level of play.

Well here is the problem I have with this....." The game has changed"
So Cheryl Miller can't play in today's game?? I bet she could....
How about Swoopes or Cooper...??
Lisa Leslie??????
Dawn Staley???



My lineup:

1 Taurasi
2 Sales / Abrosimova
3 Moore
4 Cash
5 Charles

G - Jefferson
F - Abrosimova / Sales
F - Stewart

 

[hoophuskee]

Starters: Diana Taursi, Sue Bird, Maya Moore, Breanna Stewart, Tina Charles
subs: Nykesha Sales, Mo Jefferson, Rebecca Lobo

For all our disagreements regarding 2001 - this was my eight too. How about that, we can agree!

 

[Wally East]

For all our disagreements regarding 2001 - this was my eight too. How about that, we can agree!

I mean, that eight is just so obvious

 

[CocoHusky]

AGAIN, the starting line up is simple. Writes itself.
Bird (best PG in the world)
DT (best 2G in the world)
Moore (best 3 in the world)
Stewart (one of the top 4's in the world)
Charles (one of the top 5's in the world)

After that, then yea there can be debate.

The original poster requested opinions on all time UCONN great as starters and 3 reserves so in a sense it is all up for debate. You and I will have to agree to disagree. There is no such thing as an opinion that "writes itself".

 

[CocoHusky]

Thanks for the very thoughtful response It was interesting seeing all of those things together.

I do wonder about the idea of the skill level being higher now than in the past. Isn't that something that Geno has complained about with recent high school classes? That they all just play a lot of games but don't actually practice a lot?

If I remember correctly Geno's complaint was more directed at AAU where the Kids played too many games and hardly ever practiced. High school BB might be an extension of that same complaint but my main complaint about HS BB remains lack of good coaches-Typically the coach is taking on the job as an additional duty at the HS and the lack of standardization NY, NJ and PA for example should all have a shot clock in place at all HS levels. Not playing with a shot clock puts your kids at a severe disadvantage when/if they get to college.

 

[meyers7]

The original poster requested opinions on all time UCONN great as starters and 3 reserves so in a sense it is all up for debate. You and I will have to agree to disagree. There is no such thing as an opinion that "writes itself".

There is in this case. Anything else is just crazy.

 

[UcMiami]

If I remember correctly Geno's complaint was more directed at AAU where the Kids played too many games and hardly ever practiced. High school BB might be an extension of that same complaint but my main complaint about HS BB remains lack of good coaches-Typically the coach is taking on the job as an additional duty at the HS and the lack of standardization NY, NJ and PA for example should all have a shot clock in place at all HS levels. Not playing with a shot clock puts your kids at a severe disadvantage when/if they get to college.

Yeah - I noticed the typo when it was too late to edit - it was supposed to read:
Yes - the fundamentals are not being drilled into kids in practice and they aren't getting the same instruction outside of HS coaching during the HS OFF season according to Geno and many other coaches.

I actually think their a generally some very good HS coaches in most HS catchment areas and especially prep/catholic/private HS that do player recruitment so a lot of the best players are getting pretty good HS coaching. But I agree that the HS level is spotty - but then so is the college level, and I would say the pros as well!

 

[BroadwayVa]

IMO, no way! I love Mo, but Sue was athletic, saw the whole court, ran the team on the court with authority, was a terrific shooter, terrific passer, had that ultra competitive "compulsive winner" aura, and was truly the leader on the floor - all this long before her junior year. Total PG package (and still is).

Moriah is hugely athletic and a great shooter. Definitely not as consistently "clutch" in big games/big moments. She may get there next year, but she ain't Sue Bird yet.

I truly love Sue Bird but in their hay day I'd take Jefferson over Sue. Sue was Clutch--have you noticed who takes over when the bigs can't score?? I doubt Moriah will ever match the 3 from before half court or the buzzer beater to beat ND --that was pure Sue.
My wife lived one block from Christ the King and exemplifies the same characteristics as Sue--always up personality, nothing will defeat her, when she screws up, she immediately fixes it--so I'm bought into Sue. But IM not so humble opinion --I take Moriah. As for the "leader on the court" only after Shea graduated--Shea was Capt of that team and Sue had issues with Shea running the team while Sue was Point and got verbally beat up by Geno for all that went wrong on the floor. Moriah sees the total floor and makes amazing plays accordingly. Sue as long as Shea was there did not lead that team--although she had that responsibility--nice girl that Sue.

 

[BroadwayVa]

I truly love Sue Bird but in their hay day I'd take Jefferson over Sue. Sue was Clutch--have you noticed who takes over when the bigs can't score?? I doubt Moriah will ever match the 3 from before half court or the buzzer beater to beat ND --that was pure Sue.
My wife lived one block from Christ the King and exemplifies the same characteristics as Sue--always up personality, nothing will defeat her, when she screws up, she immediately fixes it--so I'm bought into Sue. But IM not so humble opinion --I take Moriah. As for the "leader on the court" only after Shea graduated--Shea was Capt of that team and Sue had issues with Shea running the team while Sue was Point and got verbally beat up by Geno for all that went wrong on the floor. Moriah sees the total floor and makes amazing plays accordingly. Sue as long as Shea was there did not lead that team--although she had that responsibility--nice girl that Sue.

Yeah - I noticed the typo when it was too late to edit - it was supposed to read:
Yes - the fundamentals are not being drilled into kids in practice and they aren't getting the same instruction outside of HS coaching during the HS OFF season according to Geno and many other coaches.

I actually think their a generally some very good HS coaches in most HS catchment areas and especially prep/catholic/private HS that do player recruitment so a lot of the best players are getting pretty good HS coaching. But I agree that the HS level is spotty - but then so is the college level, and I would say the pros as well!

With the advent of AAU long season playing, with little to no coaching, HS coaches are limited to addressing PLAYS and little fundamentals. Geno has lamented on this issue nearly a decade now. HS ages kids want to "play" ---what's to learn they score, isn't that the game--who needs defense when you score big???

 

[BroadwayVa]

If I remember correctly Geno's complaint was more directed at AAU where the Kids played too many games and hardly ever practiced. High school BB might be an extension of that same complaint but my main complaint about HS BB remains lack of good coaches-Typically the coach is taking on the job as an additional duty at the HS and the lack of standardization NY, NJ and PA for example should all have a shot clock in place at all HS levels. Not playing with a shot clock puts your kids at a severe disadvantage when/if they get to college.

Except in certain HS's around the land, Coaching is often a sideline job for a teacher. The good ones are dedicated to coaching, not classroom teaching. That's an extra cost some school system do not want to pay. So the private schools (include religious schools in that) often have the funds to pay for a dedicated coach and fundamentals become a big part of his or her teachings. This is not new --- going back 100 years in Ct you'll see superb coaches dominated in their specific sport. Some really great semi pro and college players coached HS and were less than successful in sports while teaching Biology. I know of successful Catholic schools whose coach was the Parish Priest and dedicated to no classroom only after school sports and confessions.

 

[Kaizen]

Bird, DT, Maya, Steward, Charles

Jefferson, Tuck, Chong (too many to select, hence select the current class).

 

[BroadwayVa]

If I remember correctly Geno's complaint was more directed at AAU where the Kids played too many games and hardly ever practiced. High school BB might be an extension of that same complaint but my main complaint about HS BB remains lack of good coaches-Typically the coach is taking on the job as an additional duty at the HS and the lack of standardization NY, NJ and PA for example should all have a shot clock in place at all HS levels. Not playing with a shot clock puts your kids at a severe disadvantage when/if they get to college.

Most of what you say I agree with and is accurate. I agree with Geno and the AAU experience--fundamentals seem lost to the number of games being played. Probably that alone has an impact on ACL's injuries in HS and College.
What I disagree with is NOT having a Shot Clock puts kids at a disadvantage in College. The adjustment to a shot clock is minimal. AAU kids and most HS schools play the "fast game". Maybe once in a while holding the ball comes into play and I believe that not having a clock has a great advantage to the lessor talented schools--and to me that's proper as frustrating as it is to watch--because I remember Uconn (men) playing URI without the clock score at half time like 7 to 8 and I listened to an hour of that championship game on the radio and enjoyed it because Uconn won.

 

[BroadwayVa]

Here are just some of the ways/reason IMO that the game has changed.
USA Basketball-High level instructions and competition at the prep level creates a pipe line such that UCONN can use this as a measuring stick-as in name the last UCONN recruit to not be invited to their USA basketball age group tryout? OK name the last UCONN recruit not to make USA basketball age group team?
NCAA Rule changes although recent allow coaches to spend more time with players in the off season actually coaching and instructing as long as they are on campus taking classes almost doubling the amount of time a coach can spend instructing.
Game Rules Changes-1 hand check on the perimeter can’t displace cutters & 10 second backcourt changes the pace of the game favors quickness and the more skilled offensive players.
Size, Skill level, & Strength of Players has exponentially increased. 6”4 Rebecca Lobo attempted 150 3Pt shots for her career. Stevie shoots that many in a season. Poor A’ja Wilson gets slammed by me and others for not being able to shoot the 3 ball and at 6’5” wants to be a guard. Jen Rizzotti was fast for her time, but I’m not sure you are timing her and MoJeff with the same instrument. Weightlifting is pretty much standardize across all programs now to the point that the next conditioning maybe to condition like the Marines-Wait I forget they did that also!
Social media and technology-Name a recruit that does not have a highlight tape on YouTube. How many “I saw Geno at this gym looking at this kid” have we seen on twitter. The main effect of this is we get introduced to these kids at an earlier age and God forbid these kids doesn’t correct their weaknesses buy the time the get to UCONN because someone will point it out after every game.
What really brought it home for me was reading Nan’s post in which she said “I love Rebecca to pieces but she's not athletic enough.” I am thinking huh, I agree with her today but when I was watching Rebecca playing she looked pretty darn athletic to me. So I take the easy way out and say yes the game has definitely changed- that is a lot easier that saying I turned into an old fogie.

NCAA rule to limit coaching contact is good is bad. Kids need time off away from BB and to study. But some adjustment must be made to improve skills during the off season--I'm not smart enough to say how to do it.
Game Rule Change--NADA. Hand checking is just another bump, push , pull, grab knock down slows down the game and is painful to watch.
Rebecca---maybe compared to someone like Stewie wasn't athletic but at her time and place she fit the bill nicely.

 

[mhshuskies]

I can't do it by holding it to 8. Everyone agrees on Bird, Taurasi, Stewart and Moore but I don't know how you can choose between any of the following: Lobo, Wolters, Charles, Sales, Bascomb, Rizoti, Abrasimova and Ralph.

 

[diggerfoot]

There is in this case. Anything else is just crazy.

I would have the same starting five as you, but this is a hypothetical and, hypothetically, some alternatives are not as crazy as you deem.
For example, Lobo was the better and player and more experienced center, yet Auriemma's put Wolters there because of the natural fit. Though Charles is not as versatile as Lobo, it's not far-fetched to think Auriemma's would move Charles as well. If he would move great players for a natural fit of Wolters at center, it's also not far-fetched that he might have one coming off the bench as well. There are a lot of qualifiers to this which lead us, particularly in hindsight, to leave Wolters off. But this is a hypothetical once again. If it is a plausible strategy for the great Auriemma, who are we to dogmatically deem it as crazy?

Another hypothetical argument can be made for Jefferson. I watched old tapes before this year's championship game. What many people don't realize is how much easier it is to accumulate assists and fewer turnovers in a perimeter oriented offense with a bunch of sharpshooters. Bird (and Taurasi of course) made passes to the post that I frankly don't think Jefferson is capable of doing. Having said that, if both Bird and Jefferson came to the team in the same year, I think Auriemma would give Bird the nod because of her leadership abilities, but I don't think it is "crazy" to think that, with all of Jefferson's gifts, she just might be given the nod if both started out on equal footing. It's not what I would do, but it's legit for people to take hypotheticals in various directions.