An embarrassment of riches

[HuskylnSC]

OK! I've read about all thee posts and am really ripping at the garbage positions taken. Talking about people who can't get it done and naming great player after great player and denigrating their careers as if they were failures. It's just stinking obvious what a bunch of spoiled supposed fans some of you all are. If you want to believe @BostonCanuck that "In the biggest of big games, Lou and her compadres from that recent era unfortunately just couldn't get it done." Remember she's the kid who played 20 minutes of basketball with a broken foot and then cried when she couldn't finish the game. She's the kid who was so sick she had to run off the court and throw up in a bucket and run back on court. The kid has fire in her belly like few have. They won and they won and they won. Do you know how hard it is to win 20 or 30 games in a row. They got beat by two wild shots in two separate games and you make their whole career out to be losers. It disgusting! Kids pour so much in their careers so that you can walk around with your chest puffed out and talk about being a UConn women's basketball fan. I wouldn't be surprised if you are one of those fans who let an alligator mouth overload your hummingbird butt by bragging before the game to all your friends. They lost and now because you didn't understand how hard it is to win, you had to face all your work buddies as a blowhard. You denigrate 30 kids without caring. You also denigrate the kids who stepped up to win. Go tell Vivans and William you know they won that night because Lou didn't step up. Last word. Show me your trophy case! If you have 1/10th of the hardware of Lou and Pheesa I'll publish an apology.

 

[hoophuskee]

OK! I've read about all thee posts and am really ripping at the garbage positions taken. Talking about people who can't get it done and naming great player after great player and denigrating their careers as if they were failures. It's just stinking obvious what a bunch of spoiled supposed fans some of you all are. If you want to believe @BostonCanuck that "In the biggest of big games, Lou and her compadres from that recent era unfortunately just couldn't get it done." Remember she's the kid who played 20 minutes of basketball with a broken foot and then cried when she couldn't finish the game. She's the kid who was so sick she had to run off the court and throw up in a bucket and run back on court. The kid has fire in her belly like few have. They won and they won and they won. Do you know how hard it is to win 20 or 30 games in a row. They got beat by two wild shots in two separate games and you make their whole career out to be losers. It disgusting! Kids pour so much in their careers so that you can walk around with your chest puffed out and talk about being a UConn women's basketball fan. I wouldn't be surprised if you are one of those fans who let an alligator mouth overload your hummingbird butt by bragging before the game to all your friends. They lost and now because you didn't understand how hard it is to win, you had to face all your work buddies as a blowhard. You denigrate 30 kids without caring. You also denigrate the kids who stepped up to win. Go tell Vivans and William you know they won that night because Lou didn't step up. Last word. Show me your trophy case! If you have 1/10th of the hardware of Lou and Pheesa I'll publish an apology.

Awesome awesome post!!! Awesome post.

+11111111111111111111000000000000000000000000000001111111111111111000000000000000000000!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[HuskylnSC]

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." Theodore Roosevelt - "Citizenship in a Republic"

 

[BostonCanuck]

OK! I've read about all thee posts and am really ripping at the garbage positions taken. Talking about people who can't get it done and naming great player after great player and denigrating their careers as if they were failures. It's just stinking obvious what a bunch of spoiled supposed fans some of you all are. If you want to believe @BostonCanuck that "In the biggest of big games, Lou and her compadres from that recent era unfortunately just couldn't get it done." Remember she's the kid who played 20 minutes of basketball with a broken foot and then cried when she couldn't finish the game. She's the kid who was so sick she had to run off the court and throw up in a bucket and run back on court. The kid has fire in her belly like few have. They won and they won and they won. Do you know how hard it is to win 20 or 30 games in a row. They got beat by two wild shots in two separate games and you make their whole career out to be losers. It disgusting! Kids pour so much in their careers so that you can walk around with your chest puffed out and talk about being a UConn women's basketball fan. I wouldn't be surprised if you are one of those fans who let an alligator mouth overload your hummingbird butt by bragging before the game to all your friends. They lost and now because you didn't understand how hard it is to win, you had to face all your work buddies as a blowhard. You denigrate 30 kids without caring. You also denigrate the kids who stepped up to win. Go tell Vivans and William you know they won that night because Lou didn't step up. Last word. Show me your trophy case! If you have 1/10th of the hardware of Lou and Pheesa I'll publish an apology.

Sorry, but I cannot accept the thesis that pointing out that certain players could not get it done in the biggest of big games is comparable to denigrating their careers.

I am a huge fan of Lou. She's a genuine All American who succeeded in transforming herself into a compete player under Geno's coaching. Same for my fellow Canadian Nurse, and Collier who's sophomore campaign was otherworldly.

I was however pointing out that in two or three consecutive Final Four semi-finals, none of the players mentioned was the best player on the floor in those games. I recall after 2019 semi-final, that in her post-game comments to the media, Napheesa came right out said that she wished she had player better, something for which I respect her enormously.

Will it be different for Paige? That book is not yet written. But the level of play we are currently seeing from the role players and freshmen is very promising, and suggests a level of leadership, or perhaps just an IT-factor, that previsous mega-stars like Taurasi brought, and hasn't present since 2016.

 

[Boreifs]

Essentially the same result, though. In the biggest of big games, Lou and her compadres from that recent era unfortunately just couldn't get it done.

One of the defining things about Paige and the four or so mega-stars that have come through UConn is that they make the players around them better. Geno has said that a couple of times this year, and the more I watch as the season progresses, the more I'm really understanding that attribute and how invaluable is.

Other tier 1 players like Walker, Dangerfield, Lou and Pheesa didn't really have that particular X-factor. Paige has it in spades.

Lou lost either three or four games in her career. I would say that was getting it done. This crap that a player is a failure if there is no NC is just ridiculous. Let’s throw Aaron Judge out with the bath water.

 

[Martin]

Geno and staff and players are competing at a very high level. They are all grown arse adults and since this is a competition are not above criticism. None of them. Can you imagine if the Red Sox hadn’t been critical of Grady Little? They might not have won any of those World Series!! 😂😂😂

 

[huskeynut]

If the success of a program and its players is measured only by winning a national championship, every program is a failure!

That is pure BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If 11 national champions and numerous regular season championships and tournament championships and 12 straight final fours doesn't qualify as successful, then I don't know what you call success.

 

[hoophuskee]

Geno and staff and players are competing at a very high level. They are all grown arse adults and since this is a competition are not above criticism. None of them. Can you imagine if the Red Sox hadn’t been critical of Grady Little? They might not have won any of those World Series!! 😂😂😂

Can you imagine Red Sox media telling us how overrated Luis Tiant was because he couldn't get it done and also pitch in game 7 of the world series in 1975? I guess you'd characterize Yaz as someone "who couldn't get it done" as well? Why not change the HOF for players who only "got it done" by winning championships?

 

[huskiemaniac]

OK! I've read about all thee posts and am really ripping at the garbage positions taken. Talking about people who can't get it done and naming great player after great player and denigrating their careers as if they were failures. It's just stinking obvious what a bunch of spoiled supposed fans some of you all are. If you want to believe @BostonCanuck that "In the biggest of big games, Lou and her compadres from that recent era unfortunately just couldn't get it done." Remember she's the kid who played 20 minutes of basketball with a broken foot and then cried when she couldn't finish the game. She's the kid who was so sick she had to run off the court and throw up in a bucket and run back on court. The kid has fire in her belly like few have. They won and they won and they won. Do you know how hard it is to win 20 or 30 games in a row. They got beat by two wild shots in two separate games and you make their whole career out to be losers. It disgusting! Kids pour so much in their careers so that you can walk around with your chest puffed out and talk about being a UConn women's basketball fan. I wouldn't be surprised if you are one of those fans who let an alligator mouth overload your hummingbird butt by bragging before the game to all your friends. They lost and now because you didn't understand how hard it is to win, you had to face all your work buddies as a blowhard. You denigrate 30 kids without caring. You also denigrate the kids who stepped up to win. Go tell Vivans and William you know they won that night because Lou didn't step up. Last word. Show me your trophy case! If you have 1/10th of the hardware of Lou and Pheesa I'll publish an apology.

I didn't see anything wild about either shot. Both shooters deserve the same credit given to the home team, imo.

 

[Glenn]

Sometimes the other team beats you, even when you are better and even though you give 100%, and even when you play well. In 2018 the UConn team was loaded--6 WNBA first round picks--Gabby, Kia, Lou, Pheesa, Crystal, and Azure. But ND was loaded as well and they played lights out--Arkie and Jackie Young had phenomenal games--and turned out to be top 5 picks. And second rounders Jessica Sheppard and Marina Mabrey were no slouches either. It's not always whether we play well or hard, there is some luck involved, and we were unlucky that night, and lost on the final shot in OT.

 

[BBallF]

I think what some are missing in their rush to proclaim that Geno has lost his ability to recruit the true “alpha” is this. First of course, Paige Bueckers! Second is the fact that they don’t come along every year. Third, and perhaps most important, is that Geno will not recruit a player (even a player others claim is an alpha) unless she fits into his mold of a UConn player. I’m reasonably sure that there have been players that were “alphas” in terms of their playing abilities but would not, in his opinion, be a good fit at UConn. Finally, fourth, not every player is going to want to come here. Some, even ones who meet with his criteria, just don’t see this as what they are looking for. Hard to believe, but there it is. I also think that it is getting harder to find players who are truly great yet are willing and eager to fit in and be coached hard. I don’t think he has lost anything! PS Even Geno is allowed to simply be wrong occasionally.

I would also point out that all the number 1s recently, KLS, CW, MW, EW (in some polls) and Paige are all essentially guards or guard/ forwards. Of the three mentioned above, Parker, Stewie and Griner ,they were all dominant in size and wingspan and were basically unstoppable offensively. It's very hard to be the greatest player from a guard position because you can't control the glass which makes Bird, DT, and soon Paige even more remarkable.

 

[hoophuskee]

I would, yes . Absolutely. And Ted Williams. Whatever they did, they did NOT “get it done.”

Show me the money.... ??

Right . It don’t mean a thing if you ain’t got that ring.

Same with Luis Tiant? He won 3 games in the 1975 World Series vs the Big Red Machine - but you would classify him as a player who didn't perform well enough to get it done? Not arguing- just wondering what you think.

Getting to the World Series means that you didn't get "enough money?" I get that you meant it figuratively. But so am I when I ask about "enough money." Can anyone "earn enough money" in your opinion to say that someone is great even if "they didn't get it done?" Or is the player excluded from being great because they get it done? Just trying to understand for you how important is it to you that "they didn't get it done." For any player that didn't get it done - it's a reflection on the player they were in your view?

For example in your view HOF players in all sports - if you were to decide the rules - would the ones who didn't get it done such as Yaz and Williams be in?

Now what about Kerry Bascom? If you decided the rules on the Husky Wall of Honor, would Bascom be on it? And secondly, would you classify her as a Husky Great? And yet if you considered her great, would you make it a point when you mention her as husky great that "she didn't get it done?" **And would you consider El Amin and Kevin Freeman greater than Ray Allen as a husky? And is Faris greater than Bascom? Faris was 2nd team A/A. Pretty respectable.

 

[jazz]

Some years, the #1 recruit is a "generational" talent (not really the right word, but the one that is commonly used). Stewie, Maya, Aja Wilson, Candace Parker, Britany Griner, Elena Delle Donne.... Coaching matters, of course, but it's hard to see how the aforementioned wouldn't have been superstars for most coaches.

Other years, the #1 recruit is merely a very, very good player. Katie Lou, Kalena Mosqueda Lewis. And sometimes, unfortunately, just a very good player. Megan, CW. Coaching helps all of them improve, but cannot make them superstars.

Just sayin'

Where is DT????

 

[JonathanXIV]

I would, yes . Absolutely. And Ted Williams. Whatever they did, they did NOT “get it done.”

Show me the money.... ??

Right . It don’t mean a thing if you ain’t got that ring.

Foolish position. I suppose Ted should have done a better job on the mound.

 

[CocoHusky]

FF are nice but championships are far better. Champions and the players that pushed you over the hump to get there are naturally more celebrated.

"Now let me ask you man...
What does it take to be number one?
Two is not a winner
And 3 nobody remembers."
------Nelly

 

[j66kicker]

Same with Luis Tiant? He won 3 games in the 1975 World Series vs the Big Red Machine - but you would classify him as a player who didn't perform well enough to get it done? Not arguing- just wondering what you think.

Getting to the World Series means that you didn't get "enough money?" I get that you meant it figuratively. But so am I when I ask about "enough money." Can anyone "earn enough money" in your opinion to say that someone is great even if "they didn't get it done?" Or is the player excluded from being great because they get it done? Just trying to understand for you how important is it to you that "they didn't get it done." For any player that didn't get it done - it's a reflection on the player they were in your view?

For example in your view HOF players in all sports - if you were to decide the rules - would the ones who didn't get it done such as Yaz and Williams be in?

Now what about Kerry Bascom? If you decided the rules on the Husky Wall of Honor, would Bascom be on it? And secondly, would you classify her as a Husky Great? And yet if you considered her great, would you make it a point when you mention her as husky great that "she didn't get it done?" **And would you consider El Amin and Kevin Freeman greater than Ray Allen as a husky? And is Faris greater than Bascom? Faris was 2nd team A/A. Pretty respectable.

I won’t address each of your nits, but will say I agree with Deion Sanders that the HOF is becoming the “Hall of Very Good.” Also if it were up to me the UConn HOH criteria would be FIRST team (5) AA only. I realize it isn’t up to me and I’m fine with how it is, but it irritates me that fans hope for exceptions or try to invent workarounds to let even more borderline non-AA players in.

Did Pheesa and Katie Lou “perform well enough” (after Stewie) to win a NC? Well, they had multiple chances - not just one shot where the wind was blowing the wrong way that day. Sorry, but the only conclusion is that - by definition - they did not perform well enough to get it done.

 

[BBallF]

FF are nice but championships are far better. Champions and the players that pushed you over the hump to get there are naturally more celebrated.

"Now let me ask you man...
What does it take to be number one?
Two is not a winner
And 3 nobody remembers."
------Nelly

Or like John Wooden used to say, nobody remembers who lost the NCAA championship game. He, like Geno, never did.

 

[CocoHusky]

I won’t address each of your nits, but will say I agree with Deion Sanders that the HOF is becoming the “Hall of Very Good.” Also if it were up to me the UConn HOH criteria would be FIRST team (5) AA only. I realize it isn’t up to me and I’m fine with how it is, but it irritates me that fans hope for exceptions or try to invent workarounds to let even more borderline non-AA players in.

Semi-serious question: Geno is out there doing this thing where he celebrating all his UNDEFEATED national champions, isn't that kind of "denigrating" the championship teams that were not undefeated?

 

[ClifSpliffy]

im not embarrassed. im proud of coach's decades-long ability to rope 'em in.
keep them dawgies rollin!

 

[hoophuskee]

I won’t address each of your nits, but will say I agree with Deion Sanders that the HOF is becoming the “Hall of Very Good.” Also if it were up to me the UConn HOH criteria would be FIRST team (5) AA only. I realize it isn’t up to me and I’m fine with how it is, but it irritates me that fans hope for exceptions or try to invent workarounds to let even more borderline non-AA players in.

Did Pheesa and Katie Lou “perform well enough” (after Stewie) to win a NC? Well, they had multiple chances - not just one shot where the wind was blowing the wrong way that day. Sorry, but the only conclusion is that - by definition - they did not perform well enough to get it done.

I don’t understand what you're saying. If a player didn't get it done then why does top 5 A/A matter? IMO you are doing the same thing that irks you-- "allowing exceptions." You either get it done or you don’t right? What did you say before about the ring and if you don’t get it- it don't mean a thing? Now all of a sudden you are allowing exceptions? The ring no longer matters now in your view?

Absolutely Pheesa and KLS performed well enough to win a NC. Basketball is not an individual game. Their EFG% combined vs Miss State was 52.38%. That's good enough.

For example- don't get me wrong-- I am not blaming the players I'm about to mention. As I said before on a prior post on this thread they just had a bad night. --- But vs Miss State Kia Nurse and Crystal Dangerfield played 52 minutes - scored 7 points on 2-9 shooting, while going 1-2 from the FT line, while having just 2 assists vs 5 turnovers. Going into this game the defense would key on Gabby, KLS and Pheesa, right? So you are actually holding it against these 3 because the guards just had a bad night? The kids aren’t robots or a fantasy basketball video game. For example, some nights players can miss free throws so it's supposed to be the other player's fault that their teammate missed some ft's too?

 

[CocoHusky]

Absolutely Pheesa and KLS performed well enough to win a NC. Basketball is not an individual game. Their EFG% combined vs Miss State was 52.38%. That's good enough.

The players did not think so.

https://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-womens-basketball/hc-jacobs-column-uconn-women-geno-lose-0401-20170401-story.html.

 

[hoophuskee]

Couldn't agree more with this. For a few years we've had 5 players on the court who could all score and make shots, but maybe we've been missing a lock down defender who could take the other teams best player out of the game. As has been mentioned before, a lack of a low post presence has also hurt. It's nice to get multiple top 10 players out of every recruiting class, but if they all do the same exact thing, you end up spinning your wheels. Better to get that top 50 gritty player who doesn't care about scoring but will do the dirty work.

Or maybe if Azura Stevens decided to stay her last year then the wheels may have stopped spinning?

And for those of us that thought Meg Walker was a very, very, very good player- how do we think UCONN would look in comparison to all other teams this year if she decided to stay?

 

[Happydad745]

Crystal Dangerfield wasn't a #1 recruit, Katie Lou Samuelson was.

And CD was the first starting Point Guard at UConn not to make All American or win a National Championship in the last 20 years.

 

[JRRRJ]

And CD was the first starting Point Guard at UConn not to make All American or win a National Championship in the last 20 years.

I'd think that winning WNBA ROY took a lot of the sting out of that snark...

 

[hoopsfan22]

Or maybe if Azura Stevens decided to stay her last year then the wheels may have stopped spinning?

And for those of us that thought Meg Walker was a very, very, very good player- how do we think UCONN would look in comparison to all other teams this year if she decided to stay?

If Stevens stayed you would have seniors KLS, Collier, Stevens to go along with a junior Crystal, and sophomore Megan. That team might have been enough to bring home a title in 2019. If today's lineup was Paige, CW, Evina, Megan, and ONO with Anna, Edwards, Nika, Aubrey, and Mir coming off the bench I'd really like our chances next month.

 

[Coach]

BostonCanuck is absolutely right. Lou and her classmates couldn't get it done when it mattered most. Lou and Napheesa won a national championship as freshmen riding Stewie's immense coattails. But once Stewie left, the NCAA championship well went dry.

Unless your criteria for "getting it done," Centerstream, is winning the AAC title, in which case Lou and Co. were world beaters. She, Napheesa and Crystal were outstanding in their own unique ways, but when it came time to win the biggest games, they came up short, as BostonCanuck states.

Auriemma once said “I do think our fan base has become spoiled. I do think they’ve lost sense of reality. Hopefully this year they realize this is really hard.”

“Getting to the national semifinals is hard. Advancing will be even harder.”

Auriemma doesn’t want anyone, including the program’s rabid fanbase, to lose perspective of the Huskies’ accomplishments.

“The fact that we’re going to 12 straight Final Fours, that shouldn’t mean that it’s easy or we should expect to be there every single year by birthright,”

 

[hoophuskee]

You're the one who brought up the HOF and HOH. I just gave you my thoughts on those.

And I'm not "holding anything against" anybody. Just saying they either got it done or they didn't.

I mean, who cares if Yaz & Ted put up a bunch of stats for decades? In the end they never won anything.

But I asked you about HOF and HOH. I brought it up because I wanted your thoughts. You did say you'd put a top 5 player on the wall. So if you are saying it don't mean a thing if you don't get a ring-- then why would you bother putting up a player on the HOH wall if they didn't win it all?

 

[CocoHusky]

Auriemma once said “I do think our fan base has become spoiled. I do think they’ve lost sense of reality. Hopefully this year they realize this is really hard.”

“Getting to the national semifinals is hard. Advancing will be even harder.”

Auriemma doesn’t want anyone, including the program’s rabid fanbase, to lose perspective of the Huskies’ accomplishments.

“The fact that we’re going to 12 straight Final Fours, that shouldn’t mean that it’s easy or we should expect to be there every single year by birthright,”

Of course it's hard. I don't think it's "birthright" that is creating these expectations .What is creating & sustaining the expectations is a proven formula. That formula includes the best coaching staff in the world and consistently getting the highest rated HS recruits.

 

[j66kicker]

But I asked you about HOF and HOH. I brought it up because I wanted your thoughts. You did say you'd put a top 5 player on the wall. So if you are saying it don't mean a thing if you don't get a ring-- then why would you bother putting up a player on the HOH wall if they didn't win it all?

I never equated HOF & HOH with winning it all? 2 different things. Otherwise we wouldn't need a wall. If the wall (or hall) was everybody who had a ring, then the wall would be littered with a whole bunch of bench players off championship teams. Agree some players who didn't win it all still belong there, but the primary purpose of the wall is to narrow it down to just the great players - not the whole universe of "championship" players.

I also DID intend to convey that I think the HOF and HOH are being diluted by having lower standards than I would have. But that's just me.

 

[Jingo]

Some years, the #1 recruit is a "generational" talent (not really the right word, but the one that is commonly used). Stewie, Maya, Aja Wilson, Candace Parker, Britany Griner, Elena Delle Donne.... Coaching matters, of course, but it's hard to see how the aforementioned wouldn't have been superstars for most coaches.

Other years, the #1 recruit is merely a very, very good player. Katie Lou, Kalena Mosqueda Lewis. And sometimes, unfortunately, just a very good player. Megan, CW. Coaching helps all of them improve, but cannot make them superstars.

Just sayin'

What about Dungee [AK] and Correa [St johns] .. ?? where were they ranked in HS?