Am I getting old or...

[boog204]

Is the college basketball product just becoming worse and worse? Other than the top, top teams and a few other teams with IMO great offensive coaches (ND, Gonzaga, etc) most of these teams are just so inferior offensively to the teams of the past. The players as a whole are more athletic, and perhaps that athleticism mitigates offense more now, but my god it is painful to watch the lack of execution, poor fundamentals, and the typical heat-check, hero ball that is being played.

I look at UConn, really the last seven years, and yes and I know that includes two national championships, and it is just really ugly basketball. Put on a vid from TCF's page, '94-09, and it is really gorgeous basketball. Am I wrong, getting old, or just hold onto glory days that have long since past?

 

[Travelman6]

Basketball IQ is on the decline, that is the biggest issue IMO.

 

[UChusky916]

Both. You're getting older and the product is getting worse.

There haven't been many cant-miss moments of this tournament. It's early, but still. Maybe I'm jaded cuz UConn's not in it.

 

[champs99and04]

This has been talked about a million times and you're not wrong, but compared to where the sport was in 2013 I actually think the product is better. Biggest problem I've seen this tournament has been crunch-time offense. The other stuff is just a natural byproduct of having worse players.

 

[boog204]

Case in point... The end of both the Kentucky and UNC games; teams going for the lead with the ball late in the game and Wichita is unable to get a shot off (blocked twice) because they ran nothing and Arkansas has to throw up a prayer. Just terrible basketball in huge spots. I know both Kentucky and UNC have great athletes, etc. But my god, run a freaking offense, a set, something. It is inexcusable to not even get a shot off because you've spent 24 seconds trying to run a screen roll.

 

[Doctor Hoop]

Some of that (maybe not that much) is the shorter 30 second shot clock. A lot of college players panic when the clock goes under 10 and nothing has developed. That means they really have about 10-14 seconds of actual offense after crossing mid-court before someone goes 1 on 1, drives into a double team or throws up a contested 3.

Well coached teams keep running their stuff and looking for mismatches. That's what Brey, Marshall and Few do very well. Calipari doesnt, because he's got enough talent on the floor that the hero 3 or forced drive often work for him.

 

[jibsey]

Kansas didn't look ugly beating MSU.

 

[Walker11]

Don't even get me started.

 

[scotty0330]

Too many thees, no ball movement, one and dones becoming the norm it has been on decline for awhile. But as bad as it has gotten it is 1000 times better to me than NBA alternative.....

 

[boog204]

Kansas didn't look ugly beating MSU.

They are one of the exceptions. They play great basketball. Duke plays the same as they always have, ND plays great ball, West Virginia is legitimately fun to watch. But after that, it just gets pretty ugly. Certainly everyone has their moments, but I miss the days when scoring 80+ in a game was not a minor miracle.

 

[JSM1970]

It was never a pretty product. When?

It's ugly in general. But competitive and kids give effort.

College sports are terrible quality wise. College football is awful.

Is the college basketball product just becoming worse and worse? Other than the top, top teams and a few other teams with IMO great offensive coaches (ND, Gonzaga, etc) most of these teams are just so inferior offensively to the teams of the past. The players as a whole are more athletic, and perhaps that athleticism mitigates offense more now, but my god it is painful to watch the lack of execution, poor fundamentals, and the typical heat-check, hero ball that is being played.

I look at UConn, really the last seven years, and yes and I know that includes two national championships, and it is just really ugly basketball. Put on a vid from TCF's page, '94-09, and it is really gorgeous basketball. Am I wrong, getting old, or just hold onto glory days that have long since past?

 

[JSM1970]

Umm, ur lost. The NBA is the best sports product.

Being an idiot NBA hater is so tired. Get lost.

Too many thees, no ball movement, one and dones becoming the norm it has been on decline for awhile. But as bad as it has gotten it is 1000 times better to me than NBA alternative.....

 

[Walker11]

Too many thees, no ball movement, one and dones becoming the norm it has been on decline for awhile. But as bad as it has gotten it is 1000 times better to me than NBA alternative.....

I almost feel bad for being so predictable and making this point for the 100th time. But the NBA product is better than ever and makes college basketball almost unwatchable for me when I'm without a vested interest.

I don't understand why they can't make it so you can go pro out of HS, or stay 2-3 years if you enroll. It seems like everyone in the world is in favor of this. Obviously either the owners or the players association don't want this but to me, it would be in the best interest of both.

 

[Deepster]

Michael Jordan killed basketball.

When he got to the pros and his sneakers and commercials took over, the "triangle offense" of everyone standing to the side and watching him go one on one the last five minutes of the game? The game hasn't been the same since. Everyone wanted to be him. Then Lebron.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Some of that (maybe not that much) is the shorter 30 second shot clock. A lot of college players panic when the clock goes under 10 and nothing has developed. That means they really have about 10-14 seconds of actual offense after crossing mid-court before someone goes 1 on 1, drives into a double team or throws up a contested 3.

Well coached teams keep running their stuff and looking for mismatches. That's what Brey, Marshall and Few do very well. Calipari doesnt, because he's got enough talent on the floor that the hero 3 or forced drive often work for him.

I think it is AAU becoming so dominant compared to high school, and the college product looks like an AAU product. I think it means a lot more aggressive play on both offense and defense, not all of which is productive. I also think AAU coaches tend to have a longer leash with their stars because they are re-recruiting their top players every year.

 

[FartMan69]

The one and done doesn't help when players start to find themselves in the pros rather than during a college career. Drummond and Wiggins come to mind I'm sure there are tons of others. AAU culture also diminishes the team aspect and tries to hard at molding individual skill sets rather than how to win basketball games.

 

[champs99and04]

So many hot takes in this thread.

 

[Walker11]

So many hot takes in this thread.

Most are predictable. The take I can't wrap my head around is from @Deepster. Hot take or sarcasm?

 

[Doctor Hoop]

So many hot takes in this thread.

Some hot takes, some thoughtful analysis. YMMV.

 

[Fishy]

I think this is probably overblown. We tend to forget the crap games in years past.

But to the extent that it might be true, I tend to think that we're looking at younger teams these days.

Skill players leaving early certainly has an impact as does the selection committee prioritizing middling power conference teams over perhaps more deserving and probably older mid-major teams.

 

[Travelman6]

Yes, there were some real crap games in the past.

This was from 15 years ago (46-40):

Huskies Hold On For 46-40 Win Over Villanova

You had this gem from 17 years ago, in a final four no less, even uglier than Uconn/Butler (this game was 53-41):

Michigan State 53, Wisconsin 41

and probably one of the worst games ever played in the tourney if you like offense (43-32):

1999: Southwest Missouri State 43, Wisconsin 32

Those three came to mind. I would even argue that 59-48 win for Uconn over Umass when they were down 34-9 at the half was also real crap, around 1998 I think.

 

[boog204]

Yes, there were some real crap games in the past.

Obviously there have been lots of crap games. UConn-Butler in 2011 was an awful game. Just feel like it has gotten worse. Perhaps I'm "misremembering" some of the past tourney games, but these games are exciting and competitive but as a whole are just really poorly executed.

 

[kobe]

The top 5 teams are pretty much as good as they were in terms of efficiency. However that second tier has improved tremendously. For example in 2011 UConn finished 10th in KenPom at +23.33 AdjEM (after winning it all). This season if they had the same efficiency numbers they'd be ranked 17th. From that same season, Arizona finished 20th and with the same efficiency numbers would be 27th this season. That second tier under the elite teams have improved. The teams at the top have the same relative quality.

 

[champs99and04]

Some hot takes, some thoughtful analysis. YMMV.

The two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. I think there are a lot of misconceptions about what constitutes "pretty basketball" because what we associate with it - crisp cutting, firm screen setting, swift ball movement - is at the mercy of talent.

Take the Spurs. They play the prettiest basketball of anyone, if you take the current millennium, but it still has to derive from somewhere, whether it's Robinson, Duncan, or now Leonard and Aldridge. All of the ping-ping-ping passing that eviscerates opposing defenses starts with their ability to win one on one. It's just like football - doesn't matter what schemes you device if you can't beat anybody on the line of scrimmage.

One of the overlooked components of college basketball - and how hard it can be to watch at times - is the absence of a defensive three seconds. Essentially, defenses have gotten more sophisticated - where teams are now able to shrink the floor, especially in the college game where the court is literally smaller - and the rules have not been tweaked accordingly. As a result, it can be easy to conflate the cause and effect because the same offense that is yielding iso buckets in the NBA is producing bricks at the college level. That's not AAU culture or a regression in coaching or Michael Jordan ruining basketball, it's just a basic matter of physics.

It's not surprising that this stuff is all amplified in crunch-time, where defenses are more locked in and less prone to the type of carelessness away from the ball that can open rifts. It's one of the reasons I've been so hard on KO the last couple years - we play in a rinky dink conference absent anybody who can consistently get their own shot against a dialed-in defense, and yet we make so many mistakes that we under-perform our talent level. It's hardly unique to us. Rhode Island just lost a game that way.

The bottom line is there comes a truth in every game where you can put it in the basket or you can't. The rest is noise.

 

[ibleedhuskyblue]

Maybe im getting old too, but no one seems to be running any offense at all. 1 on 1, and pass around the perimeter were the norm for a bunch of teams that played today. I found myself wanting to scream at the Arkansas coach to run SOMETHING !

Seems like no one wants to set a real pick either.

WE are included here...obviously.