Allegations of Abuse & Mistreatment at Texas Tech

[Carnac]

Any bets that each one of these coaches won't surface either this year or next at other wbb programs in spite of the damning and conclusive evidence of their improper and inappropriate behavior?

 

[DefenseBB]

Any bets that the entire staff (separately) won't surface either this year or next at other another wbb programs in spite of the damning and conclusive evidence of their improper and inappropriate behavior?

you might want to reread and then edit your post-what's written is not what I think you intended.

Now the real irony here is that both Stollings and Dawkins seemed to be hell-bent on this conditioning component, yet I guess neither of them has a mirror in their house or office...just sayin'

 

[CocoHusky]

I have a BY protocol question. I started a thread this AM noting the Texas Tech coach was fired, which was merged into this existing thread on the troubles with the program. Which is fine with me. But...I started a new thread so the firing news was obvious to readers, rather than buried in this thread. There have been threads on conjecture about Geno retiring. If he announced he will retire, would that news be added as comment #124 to the existing conjecture thread or treated as something new deserving it's own thread?

No. There is a severe flaw in your rationale. Most people don't even know who the Texas Tech coach is or care that she has been fired therefore not worth of it's own thread. When Heather Macy resigned from Eastern Carolina that was at first buried in the Coaching Changes Thread and ECU was in the same conference as UCONN at the time. When @vowelguy got around to starting a thread about Macy stepping down it got maybe 50 post. There were a lot of people here crushing on Heather Macy too (allegedly).

 

[Carnac]

Thursday night firing by Texas Tech after the hypocrites did an "investigation" that cleared her. An administration for whom "out of touch" really does not measure their stupidity.

Texas Tech fires coach Marlene Stollings amid abuse claims within women's basketball team

Coach Marlene Stollings was fired by Texas Tech on Thursday after players detailed abuse allegations in USA TODAY Sports.

www.usatoday.com

Texas Tech Women's Basketball Coach Fired Amid Abuse Allegations

Marlene Stollings and her staff had recently been accused by current and former players of fostering a culture of abuse.

www.si.com

Yeah there is a new thread but I don't see the point.

Texas Tech is now in the so richly deserved but unenviable position of having terminated Stollings for cause based on the same allegations that were involved in its oral report that had this AD exonerate her just weeks before. Caught out for the characterless mugs they are.

Texas Tech AD Kirby Hocutt said Marlene Stollings was fired "with cause" and they have no more financial obligation to her. You don't have to be Carnac (a seer) to have seen this coming.

 

[DefenseBB]

While chatting with my esteemed colleague @Plebe I did note to him that what still irritates the heck out of me on all the publishing of the Texas Tech record is how pathetic the opponents were that Stollings scheduled.

To wit-Marlene thinks she was building a "winning culture" at TT because she went from 14-17 her first year to 18-11 in this, her second. What the press clearly doesn't grasp and maybe neither do the AD's of the world, is this "improvement" was due to Marlene scheduling the EASIEST OOC schedule in all of the 351 schools. That's right, this years team played the easiest OOC of all D1 schools. Last year, her first, they played the 230th ranked schedule of 351. This year it was ranked #351. Here is the ranking of her 11 OOC opponents:
154; 336; 335; 339; 109; 301; 318; 306; 328; 349; 324
So, to anyone with a scintilla of common sense, she beat up on the infirm with a P5 team with oodles of resources and wants to claim a "winning culture"? Shame on all who report this and didn't call her out.

So yes, I am giddy this fraud of a coach and now a noted abuser is without a job. There are also social media posts by Minnesota and VCU players who claim this abuse occurred there as well. Both her and Dawkins should never be allowed to coach again.

Rant over...please proceed as you were.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

You don't have to be Carnac to have seen this coming.

What century is that AD living in that lead him to think he could sweep this under the rug? He should be next on the firing list.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

 

[donalddoowop]

While chatting with my esteemed colleague @Plebe I did note to him that what still irritates the heck out of me on all the publishing of the Texas Tech record is how pathetic the opponents were that Stollings scheduled.

To wit-Marlene thinks she was building a "winning culture" at TT because she went from 14-17 her first year to 18-11 in this, her second. What the press clearly doesn't grasp and maybe neither do the AD's of the world, is this "improvement" was due to Marlene scheduling the EASIEST OOC schedule in all of the 351 schools. That's right, this years team played the easiest OOC of all D1 schools. Last year, her first, they played the 230th ranked schedule of 351. This year it was ranked #351. Here is the ranking of her 11 OOC opponents:
154; 336; 335; 339; 109; 301; 318; 306; 328; 349; 324
So, to anyone with a scintilla of common sense, she beat up on the infirm with a P5 team with oodles of resources and wants to claim a "winning culture"? Shame on all who report this and didn't call her out.

So yes, I am giddy this fraud of a coach and now a noted abuser is without a job. There are also social media posts by Minnesota and VCU players who claim this abuse occurred there as well. Both her and Dawkins should never be allowed to coach again.

Rant over...please proceed as you were.

Oh no. I wanted to read more. It was just getting interesting.

 

[maccca3232]

To wit-Marlene thinks she was building a "winning culture" at TT because she went from 14-17 her first year to 18-11 in this, her second. What the press clearly doesn't grasp and maybe neither do the AD's of the world, is this "improvement" was due to Marlene scheduling the EASIEST OOC schedule in all of the 351 schools. That's right, this years team played the easiest OOC of all D1 schools. Last year, her first, they played the 230th ranked schedule of 351. This year it was ranked #351. Here is the ranking of her 11 OOC opponents:
154; 336; 335; 339; 109; 301; 318; 306; 328; 349; 324
So, to anyone with a scintilla of common sense, she beat up on the infirm with a P5 team with oodles of resources and wants to claim a "winning culture"? Shame on all who report this and didn't call her out.

Program success (or lack there of) has nothing to do with the topic at hand, why she was terminated.

That said although no P5 teams should rank last, the OOC can be used for multiple purposes, so I would be more interested in the conference record and eventually tournament success.

Here are the TT conference W/L for the last 3 seasons:
2017-18: 1-17
2018-19: 4-14 (her 1st season)
2019-20: 7-17 (her 2nd season)

Objectively I would define that as progress.

 

[Argonaut]

Wait a minute.

Wasn’t aware of the magnitude? So they were aware that this was happening on some level and just ignored it? Hoped it would go away?

Goodness...

 

[DefenseBB]

Program success (or lack there of) has nothing to do with the topic at hand, why she was terminated.

That said although no P5 teams should rank last, the OOC can be used for multiple purposes, so I would be more interested in the conference record and eventually tournament success.

Here are the TT conference W/L for the last 3 seasons:
2017-18: 1-17
2018-19: 4-14 (her 1st season)
2019-20: 7-17 (her 2nd season)

Objectively I would define that as progress.

Who said anything about success or lack of as the reason she was terminated? All the main stream reporting stated Stollings reasoning that she and her staff wanted to build a winning culture and attitude. She tied for 8th in 2019 and tied for 6th in 2020 and the bottom of this conference is terrible. But hey if paying $720k gets you to 7th place (they lose the tie breaker to WVU) and you feel that objectively they are better, have at it, I for one thought better coaches aspire to better teams and results against tougher competition. Which is why I am rooting hard for Tina Thompson at UVa who schedule a tough OOC including UConn last year and this year.
I am absolutely delighted that this delusional, misguided jerk of a Coach was given her walking papers and her assistant as well. You raise your program, your team and your staff by building people up, not tearing people down.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Wait a minute.

Wasn’t aware of the magnitude? So they were aware that this was happening on some level and just ignored it? Hoped it would go away?

Goodness...

Yup, a grossly stupid admission by this AD.

 

[Carnac]

They need to hire a new head coach and fast. Classes at TT begin in 17 days - August 24.

 

[Carnac]

Yup, a grossly stupid admission by this AD.

Texas Tech AD Kirby Hocutt apologizes to players: 'We have failed them'

 

[Plebe]

Here are the TT conference W/L for the last 3 seasons:
2017-18: 1-17
2018-19: 4-14 (her 1st season)
2019-20: 7-17 (her 2nd season)

Objectively I would define that as progress.

Just to add to this line of inquiry, Texas Tech's season-ending Massey rankings:
2017-18: #198
2018-19: #96
2019-20: #52

Having watched Tech in the Candi Whitaker years as well as through Stollings' two seasons, I can say unequivocally that the team did improve year to year, as the Massey rankings suggest. I still did take a certain amount of amusement in pointing out Stollings' historically awful nonconference schedule, as well as her teams' characteristic disinterest in defense. Apparently I wasn't the only one to notice on the latter count.

 

[and one]

No. There is a severe flaw in your rationale. Most people don't even know who the Texas Tech coach is or care that she has been fired therefore not worth of it's own thread. When Heather Macy resigned from Eastern Carolina that was at first buried in the Coaching Changes Thread and ECU was in the same conference as UCONN at the time. When @vowelguy got around to starting a thread about Macy stepping down it got maybe 50 post. There were a lot of people here crushing on Heather Macy too (allegedly).

I'm persuaded that info about Texas Tech belongs on the general WBB board. I don't go there often so I'd prefer that significant news (recruiting, coaching changes et. al.) about programs that can challenge UConn be on the UConn WBB board.

 

[and one]

This has been said by others in this thread but let me reemphasize: a coaches record or strength of schedule is irrelevant where abuse of players is concerned.

 

[Carnac]

Point taken. I guess my point is simply that Gordon was not in particularly good shape during her 2 years at UConn, and that certainly contributed to both her lack of playing time, along with a rash of nagging injuries. After transferring to TT, she appears to have gotten herself in better shape, and earn a chance to play.

I vaguely remember a comment by a poster that was close to the program that said the reason Gordon was not getting any minutes was because of her not being in physical condition at the level the staff mandates. She was usually the last player off the bench in garbage time. No more than 3 minutes a game.

 

[vtcwbuff]

I'm sure this post will have a very short half life but - people need to read Auriemma's book. Especially the part about the considerable dissension on the team and about how there was a move to get him fired for "whacking" (his word and his admission) one of his players. That "whack" got blown up to a punch. In reality it was no big deal and the player (Kris Lamb) and her father both sided with Auriemma.

The point I was trying to make is that I don't think that the sometimes out of control, screamer, foul mouthed coach Auriemma of the late 80's and early 90's could survive in today's WCBB culture.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

I'm sure this post will have a very short half life but - people need to read Auriemma's book. Especially the part about the considerable dissension on the team and about how there was a move to get him fired for "whacking" (his word and his admission) one of his players. That "whack" got blown up to a punch. In reality it was no big deal and the player (Kris Lamb) and her father both sided with Auriemma.

The point I was trying to make is that I don't think that the sometimes out of control, screamer, foul mouthed coach Auriemma of the late 80's and early 90's could survive in today's WCBB culture.

Times change. Successful coaches (and bosses for that matter) change with them. It is as simple as that.

There is no "right" style as much as there is a "wrong" style. Not only does abusing players, screaming and yelling all the time and all the rest of it not work, but it has consequences now.

Can you picture (among others) Woody Hayes in today's world?

 

[Carnac]

Any bets that each one of these coaches won't surface either this year or next at other wbb programs in spite of the damning and conclusive evidence of their improper and inappropriate behavior?

I'm guessing that each one of these coaches WILL find another job in college basketball somewhere, and soon. Either this season, or next season. The BOLD sentence asks if anyone wants to bet AGAINST them finding another job in men's or women's college basketball. In other words does anyone want to bet that they will remain unemployed for the foreseeable future? i.e., Won't surface = remain off the grid/radar and remain unemployed like they are today. I'm betting that they WILL. Does anyone want to bet against me?

 

[Carnac]

Times change. Successful coaches (and bosses for that matter) change with them. It is as simple as that.

There is no "right" style as much as there is a "wrong" style. Not only does abusing players, screaming and yelling all the time and all the rest of it not work, but it has consequences now.

Can you picture (among others) Woody Hayes in today's world?

No. Woody came along in a totally different era over 60 years ago. Things were tolerated then that are not today by players, parents, fans, the news media and college administrators. Same thing with Bobby Knight, throwing chairs and grabbing players. There are too many coaches like Herman Edwards of Arizona State, that loves to coach and teach young men how to play the game, be responsible and take responsibility for their actions and how to use good judgement (don't press send).

If I had a son in high school that was good enough to play at the next level, I would want him to play for Edwards. Edwards runs a good clean program that teachers his kids things that will make them better people, better men after they leave his program, whether they go pro or not. The same way I would want my high school daughter with elite D1 skills to play for Geno.

 

[JonathanXIV]

Program success (or lack there of) has nothing to do with the topic at hand, why she was terminated.

That said although no P5 teams should rank last, the OOC can be used for multiple purposes, so I would be more interested in the conference record and eventually tournament success.

Here are the TT conference W/L for the last 3 seasons:
2017-18: 1-17
2018-19: 4-14 (her 1st season)
2019-20: 7-17 (her 2nd season)

Objectively I would define that as progress.

Perhaps with a small “p.”

 

[DefenseBB]

I can't edit my comments after they've been posted for 24 hours. I could in the past, not anymore. I don't know if it's just me, or if that feature was removed from everyone's account.

I'm guessing that each one of these coaches WILL find another job in college basketball somewhere, and soon. Either this season, or next season. The BOLD sentence asks if anyone wants to bet AGAINST them finding another job in men's or women's college basketball. In other words does anyone want to bet that they will remain unemployed for the foreseeable future? i.e., Won't surface = remain off the grid/radar and remain unemployed like they are today. I'm betting that they WILL. Does anyone want to bet against me?

Ok, I will take that bet! Only because I want to believe that schools will do a better job vetting coaches and what their "character is".
That said, I guess some former coach/player who worked with or under Stollings/Dawkins would "sell" Stollings or Dawkins skills and the fact that the two of them have mended their ways and will be on a short leasch, but I HIGHLY DOUBT either will ever be a head coach again. Just too much downside for a program to take that chance, I mean after all both Swoopes and Connie Yori got jobs after being let go with cause so you unfortunately have past history on your side of the bet...

 

[Steelerone]

It's sort of like a dog that chases it's tail. Many of these programs want a top ten team and the money and notoriety that goes along with being there so they make a decision to lower their standards in terms of players and coachs. They, sadly, in too many case, go for a "quick fix" type of coach, someone who has contacts in the AAU industry (which is really what it is), someone who is willing to take shortcuts or take chances in order to bring in a top recruit in spite of his or her grades. And the people who are willing to do this are often short of a moral base. When this finally filters down it goes directly to the players who are on the team. I'm not quite sure if it's a coincidence that many times these teams are from Texas.