All Players Attending Hurley Presser | Page 9 | The Boneyard

All Players Attending Hurley Presser

businesslawyer said:
Durham never, never should have played his freshman year. But to be fair to KO, the injuries tied his hand somewhat, and I'm not sure he could have redshirted him without Durham transferring anyway.
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And to also be fair, KO’s negligence in leaving the team two scholarship players short didn’t help. I agree that Durham should have never played last year, but having two more players would have still allowed the school to redshirt Durham.
 
businesslawyer said:
No, I'm not comparing Enoch to Onourah. Where did I mention Onourah?

Enoch was horrific. Period. He had already played two years for us. At best -- best -- he would have improved to below average this past season and been better than what we had. And then been good next year. But at most, we were only getting one year of good play out of him because of the time it was taking him to develop. And none of it was physical. I think he has all the raw physical tools -- not just strength but athleticism, speed and coordination. What he didn't have were any basketball skills or the ability to mentally play the game.

Durham didn't trust his body yet after the two knee injuries. I thought that -- more than lack of strength -- was the problem. But having redshirted this year, and with three years of eligibility left, I think he will be a good player and might be a really good player. In his cameo appearances, he should good skills and adequate understanding.
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Your comment “guys who look like Tarzan but play like Jane” inescapably as a UConn fan made me think of Dave O. Apparently, that was the wrong assumption on my part?

Since our Bigs coaching failed to develop any Big, I will not automatically assume the slow mental development process - was all on Steve. KO was extremely erratic who he choose to pull or stay in after a mistake. Enoch and Jackson, both of whom added value in some ways, were the guys pulled after one mistake while others made multiple mistakes and stayed in the game.

I like the way Carlton keeps his arms and ball up but to me Enoch has a ton more physical potential - you obviously feel he will never obtain his potential - I am more of an optimist in that regard. Time will tell who is right.
I had some of these same arguments after Dre’s freshman year. I am not trying to compare the two - Dre is athletically on another level. But, assessing Bigs underclassmen is much different than assessing guards. Trust in Chief.
 
Akinjo will hurt way more than Durham and Enoch...
It is what it is and is in the past.. We have to build it all back up from the bottom floor.
 
Chief00 said:
Your comment “guys who look like Tarzan but play like Jane” inescapably as a UConn fan made me think of Dave O. Apparently, that was the wrong assumption on my part?

Since our Bigs coaching failed to develop any Big, I will not automatically assume the slow mental development process - was all on Steve. KO was extremely erratic who he choose to pull or stay in after a mistake. Enoch and Jackson, both of whom added value in some ways, were the guys pulled after one mistake while others made multiple mistakes and stayed in the game.

I like the way Carlton keeps his arms and ball up but to me Enoch has a ton more physical potential - you obviously feel he will never obtain his potential - I am more of an optimist in that regard. Time will tell who is right.
I had some of these same arguments after Dre’s freshman year. I am not trying to compare the two - Dre is athletically on another level. But, assessing Bigs underclassmen is much different than assessing guards. Trust in Chief.
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Did our coaches fail miserably in developing bigs? You betcha. But did Enoch have the basketball instincts of an average sixth grade travel player? Heck no.
 
Chief00 said:
Your comment “guys who look like Tarzan but play like Jane” inescapably as a UConn fan made me think of Dave O. Apparently, that was the wrong assumption on my part?

Since our Bigs coaching failed to develop any Big, I will not automatically assume the slow mental development process - was all on Steve. KO was extremely erratic who he choose to pull or stay in after a mistake. Enoch and Jackson, both of whom added value in some ways, were the guys pulled after one mistake while others made multiple mistakes and stayed in the game.

I like the way Carlton keeps his arms and ball up but to me Enoch has a ton more physical potential - you obviously feel he will never obtain his potential - I am more of an optimist in that regard. Time will tell who is right.
I had some of these same arguments after Dre’s freshman year. I am not trying to compare the two - Dre is athletically on another level. But, assessing Bigs underclassmen is much different than assessing guards. Trust in Chief.
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I did not say Enoch would never reach his potential. My point was that without the year off, if he did reach it it would only be after so much poor basketball that the net benefit to us wouldn't be appreciable.
 
Chief00 said:
It will be interesting and it’s fan conjecture at this point. My own sense is for Bigs there’s a minimum strength threshold that must be crossed before a Big can be effective regardless of skills. I agree with you Durham had some skills but lacked strength (both upper and lower body) and explosiveness. I think ND has the strength program to improve that.
As far as Enoch is concerned, I understand what you are saying defensively. What I saw there was someone who did not laterally move his feet so as not to foul. Steve actually has pretty good North to South speed for his size and I think some of his issue was mentally processing the principles of KO’s defense at game speed. With good coaching that can change. If Steve gets the minutes he will be a good rebounder - good body and good soft hands. He can jump pretty well for his size to. I also think he has a good shot and can develop into a decent passer.

It seems you are equating Steve to Dave O and I think that’s an incorrect assessment. There’s a reason why he was highly sought after when he transferred and landed in the ACC.
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Chief00 - if you have been to the practices and at the games you must have witnessed SE's antics and attitude
I don't care about his abilities physically (of which I agree with BLaw for the most part), as the year went on he became more and more of a pain and at the end he even dragged Durham into his fold of follies
Both SE and VJ were problem children
UConn has not recruited real Bigs in past 4 years- only make believe ones - that has to change - bring on a 6'10" junkyard dog who has muscle and an attitude to take no prisoners - I'll take 2 of those any day
 
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blackbird said:
But Adams is just pure talent. I think he has the highest ceiling of any guard we’ve had. It’s a shame he’s playing in this Uconn era. Hopefully next year is different for him.
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Adams has a ton of talent, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if he has a strong NBA career, but the highest ceiling of any guard we've ever had? There's a guy playing in Charlotte right now that would beg to differ with that statement.
 
gtcam said:
- bring on a 6'10" junkyard dog who has muscle and an attitude to take no prisoners - I'll take 2 of those any day
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Even someone like that Caroline guy from Nevada. Not super tall by big man standards but super tough, maybe 6 foot 6 but was tough and out rebounding bigger guys. Kind of like a more clean, little Rodman. Liked his game, even nailed some 3s.
 
UConnKev said:



"it's a new season"
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Jumpmanbig is the king of social media lately. The other day he had an ig video story of Adams doing a modified skills competition in the locker room with Timberlands on and Polley using his air-max's as a phone. Hurley hasn't told him to tune it down yet, which means he's probably busy getting his staff and recruiting together.
 
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gtcam said:
Chief00 - if you have been to the practices and at the games you must have witnessed SE's antics and attitude
I don't care about his abilities physically (of which I agree with BLaw for the most part), as the year went on he became more and more of a pain and at the end he even dragged Durham into his fold of follies
Both SE and VJ were problem children
UConn has not recruited real Bigs in past 4 years- only make believe ones - that has to change - bring on a 6'10" junkyard dog who has muscle and an attitude to take no prisoners - I'll take 2 of those any day
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Yes, I saw the attitude issues but when you have a team filled with them it makes you question recruiting evaluation and coaching as well. Let’s face it some guys were not coached worth a lick nor mentored successfully. I think he will do well at ND.
 
Chief00 said:
Your comment “guys who look like Tarzan but play like Jane” inescapably as a UConn fan made me think of Dave O. Apparently, that was the wrong assumption on my part?

Since our Bigs coaching failed to develop any Big, I will not automatically assume the slow mental development process - was all on Steve. KO was extremely erratic who he choose to pull or stay in after a mistake. Enoch and Jackson, both of whom added value in some ways, were the guys pulled after one mistake while others made multiple mistakes and stayed in the game.

I like the way Carlton keeps his arms and ball up but to me Enoch has a ton more physical potential - you obviously feel he will never obtain his potential - I am more of an optimist in that regard. Time will tell who is right.
I had some of these same arguments after Dre’s freshman year. I am not trying to compare the two - Dre is athletically on another level. But, assessing Bigs underclassmen is much different than assessing guards. Trust in Chief.
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Let’s not forget despite all his many shortcomings these past few years KO reeled in a Super star big and let him go for good reasons. Certainly one of the last Great decisions of his time here. Ziggity Zach Brown.
 
MervthePurvis said:
Let’s not forget despite all his many shortcomings these past few years KO reeled in a Super star big and let him go for good reasons. Certainly one of the last Great decisions of his time here. Ziggity Zach Brown.
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I don't think we will ever have a more eventful and insane recruiting story than Zach Brown. If that's even his/her name anymore. Goodness, I hope the individual is doing okay. Really, really sad that such a bright future can be thrown away like that. I'll never forget the documentary about him.
 
RayIsTheGOAT said:
I don't think we will ever have a more eventful and insane recruiting story than Zach Brown. If that's even his/her name anymore. Goodness, I hope the individual is doing okay. Really, really sad that such a bright future can be thrown away like that. I'll never forget the documentary about him.
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Must've missed it... What's the name of the doc?

Also, yes, an incredibly sad story. But, Brown was also unbelievably overrated as a prospect. He was a top 5 his soph/junior year when he was this manchild, lacking any discernible skill, with all the potential in the world. For a myriad of reasons, by the time he was a senior, he was still a manchild with no skill and you saw his rankings drop to the 20s-50s when he committed to us to the 200s in the last 247 rankings. Some of that certainly could be due to his issues off the court, but he was never terribly impressive on the court. As a basketball player, he's the second coming of John Riek.
 
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boog204 said:
Must've missed it... What's the name of the doc?

Also, yes, an incredibly sad story. But, Brown was also unbelievably overrated as a prospect. He was a top 5 his soph/junior year when he was this manchild, lacking any discernible skill, with all the potential in the world. For a myriad of reasons, by the time he was a senior, he was still a manchild with no skill and you saw his rankings drop to the 20s-50s when he committed to us to the 200s in the last 247 rankings. Some of that certainly could be due to his issues off the court, but he was never terribly impressive on the court. As a basketball player, he's the second coming of John Riek.
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It appears that KO often recruited based on rankings rather than fit and/or skillset. The result was a roster filled with lots of pieces that showed promise, but didn't work well together.

There were 101 red flags with Zach Brown. While I was hoping he could find a way to be a productive college player, the deck was incredibly stacked against it. Sad to realize that he will probably never play a minute of D1 basketball.
 
boog204 said:
Must've missed it... What's the name of the doc?

Also, yes, an incredibly sad story. But, Brown was also unbelievably overrated as a prospect. He was a top 5 his soph/junior year when he was this manchild, lacking any discernible skill, with all the potential in the world. For a myriad of reasons, by the time he was a senior, he was still a manchild with no skill and you saw his rankings drop to the 20s-50s when he committed to us to the 200s in the last 247 rankings. Some of that certainly could be due to his issues off the court, but he was never terribly impressive on the court. As a basketball player, he's the second coming of John Riek.
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He looked slow and unathletic in the tapes I saw. Other than his size, I never saw what some people were so in love with. I hope the kid straightened out his life though.
 
Huskybass said:
It appears that KO often recruited based on rankings rather than fit and/or skillset. The result was a roster filled with lots of pieces that showed promise, but didn't work well together.
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If you look at the bigger picture of who Ollie recruited, the issue with Ollie was not recruiting or pieces not fitting together.

So. Gilbert, Jr. Adams, So. Jackson, RS Jr. Larrier, So. Durham if they all hit their potentials is a FF-quality roster, maybe even title-winning if they all stuck around for Adams' senior year. The penetration of Adams and Gilbert kicking out to floor-spacing bigs and a matchup nightmare in transition. Or a bigger lineup with Larrier at the 3, Durham at the 4, and Enoch at the 5. A ton of length and athleticism on the wing.

But injuries derailed things and Ollie wasn't a good enough coach to get them through it or get everyone to buy into his culture. Kids don't buy in when you don't hold up your side of the bargain. So 3 of them left, the 4th got hurt again, and we were in a much worse situation from a talent perspective with the same bad coaching.
 
auror said:
If you look at the bigger picture of who Ollie recruited, the issue with Ollie was not recruiting or pieces not fitting together.

So. Gilbert, Jr. Adams, So. Jackson, RS Jr. Larrier, So. Durham if they all hit their potentials is a FF-quality roster, maybe even title-winning if they all stuck around for Adams' senior year. The penetration of Adams and Gilbert kicking out to floor-spacing bigs and a matchup nightmare in transition. Or a bigger lineup with Larrier at the 3, Durham at the 4, and Enoch at the 5. A ton of length and athleticism on the wing.

But injuries derailed things and Ollie wasn't a good enough coach to get them through it or get everyone to buy into his culture. Kids don't buy in when you don't hold up your side of the bargain. So 3 of them left, the 4th got hurt again, and we were in a much worse situation from a talent perspective with the same bad coaching.
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Two of those kids had histories of significant injuries and another one had a father that was a handful by all accounts. Larrier was also a very unconventional player who was a transfer from VCU for a reason. Thus, of the 5 players you listed, only Adams was a player who didn't bring some concerns with him. My point being that while the recruiting efforts may have looked good on paper, the concerns came to fruition and the results on the court suffered substantially. PLUS, 2 scholarships went unfilled in 2016-17, which made the impact of the injuries even more pronounced.

This year we had 3 healthy guards, who often all started. Thus, we had no depth. In short, roster construction left alot to be desired.
 
Huskybass said:
Two of those kids had histories of significant injuries and another one had a father that was a handful by all accounts. Larrier was also a very unconventional player who was a transfer from VCU for a reason. Thus, of the 5 players you listed, only Adams was a player who didn't bring some concerns with him. My point being that while the recruiting efforts may have looked good on paper, the concerns came to fruition and the results on the court suffered substantially. PLUS, 2 scholarships went unfilled in 2016-17, which made the impact of the injuries even more pronounced.

This year we had 3 healthy guards, who often all started. Thus, we had no depth. In short, roster construction left alot to be desired.
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You're absolutely right that a lot of the recruits had concerns. Some may even have been risky. But there are very few sure thing recruits without any sort of question mark, and even fewer of those are willing to play in the AAC. It's easy to play the hindsight game, but Gilbert had only one minor injury before he committed (he got the 2nd shortly before arriving on campus) and Larrier transferred because his coach left, not anything to do with his "unconventional game". What % of recruits have protective or vocal family dynamics? It's not a small number. Durham was the big risk, but even so he was a bit of a luxury in a great class.

Ollie swung for the fences on Diallo and missed, but we were right there. At the time I was okay with it. Was it one too many risks? Again, maybe in hindsight, but I don't judge the process as flawed. The 2nd banked scholarship was a mistake.

The depth thing is squarely on his mishandling of MAL (which was further caused at least partially by his coaching ineffectiveness in other areas) and his poor retention.

We had the pieces to work and fit, but they never came together. Partially due to luck, a lot due to Ollie.
 
auror said:
If you look at the bigger picture of who Ollie recruited, the issue with Ollie was not recruiting or pieces not fitting together.

So. Gilbert, Jr. Adams, So. Jackson, RS Jr. Larrier, So. Durham if they all hit their potentials is a FF-quality roster, maybe even title-winning if they all stuck around for Adams' senior year. The penetration of Adams and Gilbert kicking out to floor-spacing bigs and a matchup nightmare in transition. Or a bigger lineup with Larrier at the 3, Durham at the 4, and Enoch at the 5. A ton of length and athleticism on the wing.

But injuries derailed things and Ollie wasn't a good enough coach to get them through it or get everyone to buy into his culture. Kids don't buy in when you don't hold up your side of the bargain. So 3 of them left, the 4th got hurt again, and we were in a much worse situation from a talent perspective with the same bad coaching.
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Overrated. Not enough toughness or griddiness in that group to be a final 4 contender.
 
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imno1 said:
Overrated. Not enough toughness or griddiness in that group to be a final 4 contender.
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Did Calhoun recruit tough players or teach them to be tough?
 
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