Alabama Post Game Thread

[BlueMAB]

He's averaging 21 min/gm and holding his own.

Defense is not a zero sum game. It's okay to say he is not the strongest defensive player on the team, but yet not be a liability.

Maybe I missed a prior back and forth but this is a much more measured response than implying someone said he “can’t play a lick of defense”.

I think it’s fair to say of all the players who get regular minutes, he’s the weakest man v man defender. We can leave “liability” and how we define that out of the conversation, because it’s semantics.

He is STILL an excellent player who we are lucky to have.

 

[Hoopcrazee]

Sorry if someone already noted this... Can you imagine the final outcome of a game last year when top 3 shooters went 3 for 19 from the field... most likely a certain loss...

That's what Newton, Alleyne and AJAX did last night and still won by double digits.. CMON!

 

[BlueMAB]

Sorry if someone already noted this... Can you imagine the final outcome of a game last year when top 3 shooters went 3 for 19 from the field... most likely a certain loss...

That's what Newton, Alleyne and AJAX did last night and still won by double digits.. CMON!

Gave you a like cause I agree with the premise, but wouldn’t call AJax one of our top 3 shooters. Joey C and Hawk are our two best (IMO).

 

[Spaceman213J]

I just wish Alleyne would let his shot come more naturally in the offense. I'm not a fan of the step back 3, especially with the way the offense has been flowing at times.
I do like that he's been pretty tenacious on defense even when his shot is not falling.

Also, I like Newton's ability/willingness to let the team just suceed with him not having to score, but also being unafraid to shoot/score when they need him to.

Watching Joey C, I just have to wonder if he's ever played for a defense coach with the intensity of Hurley before. He just seems to be improving with every game. I also wonder if going up against Newton, Hawkins, Allleyne... etc in practice his helping his development as well. One of the advantages of depth, is it allows you to develop players more quickly because of who they battle every day.

 

[Chin Diesel]

I just wish Alleyne would let his shot come more naturally in the offense. I'm not a fan of the step back 3, especially with the way the offense has been flowing at times.
I do like that he's been pretty tenacious on defense even when his shot is not falling.

Also, I like Newton's ability/willingness to let the team just suceed with him not having to score, but also being unafraid to shoot/score when they need him to.

Watching Joey C, I just have to wonder if he's ever played for a defense coach with the intensity of Hurley before. He just seems to be improving with every game. I also wonder if going up against Newton, Hawkins, Allleyne... etc in practice his helping his development as well. One of the advantages of depth, is it allows you to develop players more quickly because of who they battle every day.

At a minimum Alleyne isn't taking bad shots.
They may not be great shots but he is taking it in the flow of the offense where the players are balanced and able to fight for offensive revound and get back on D.

He's not a gunner and it's also obvious his offense and overall effectiveness isn't predicated on J's dropping.

 

[AntG168]

Alleyne is due for a hot night. He’s a streaky shooter who’s just in a cold streak right now. Remember he was a HUGE reason we got through those first 3 games unbeaten. I think he may have a big night(15-18 points) tomorrow.

 

[Spaceman213J]

At a minimum Alleyne isn't taking bad shots.
They may not be great shots but he is taking it in the flow of the offense where the players are balanced and able to fight for offensive revound and get back on D.

He's not a gunner and it's also obvious his offense and overall effectiveness isn't predicated on J's dropping.

I know his defense is very effective and he's not putting up horrible shots. I just thought that the last few games there were times he could have given the ball up and most likely have gotten back open and set to shoot.

 

[Husky25]

Maybe I missed a prior back and forth but this is a much more measured response than implying someone said he “can’t play a lick of defense”.

I think it’s fair to say of all the players who get regular minutes, he’s the weakest man v man defender. We can leave “liability” and how we define that out of the conversation, because it’s semantics.

He is STILL an excellent player who we are lucky to have.

The implication was made earlier in the season. In fact it was more than an implication, made by multiple posters. I didn't understand it then, don't now, and I've defended him as such.

Said differently, Hurley values defense and I think it is safe to say that Joey C. would not be getting 20 minutes a game if he played less than average D.

 

[UCLJ0211]

Is there a REPLAY??

 

[BlueMAB]

The implication was made earlier in the season. In fact it was more than an implication, made by multiple posters. I didn't understand it then, don't now, and I've defended him as such.

Said differently, Hurley values defense and I think it is safe to say that Joey C. would not be getting 20 minutes a game if he played less than average D.

Dan also targeted shooters in the off-season and I think it’s fair to say that if Joey wasn’t shooting 60% from 3PT he wouldn’t be playing 20 minutes a game, Diarra would.

And he does play less than average defense relative to what we’ve seen from Hurley’s guards. You simply cannot ignore his impact on the offensive end of the court when talking about his minutes allocation and expect that argument to be taken seriously.

If you don’t understand the critique of his defense you aren’t watching the same game. More than any other backcourt player, he is beaten off the dribble time and time again.

 

[Icehawk]

This year our team is so much better overall due to all the various synergies - not having each guy only be able to do 1 thing well is huge.

Now we can expect 3-4 guys to be point getters. Defense? Anyone on our team seeing court time is a high caliber defender IMO, the two weakest have already dramatically improved (JC, DC). We've got guys who can move the ball, two center options with wildly different playing styles to wreak havoc on an opposing teams strategy, I mean... this is the type of team we've all been asking for.

Thought the game was great last night - even when Bama tied it back up I wasn't worried like I would have been last year, I'll admit I've let the cupcakes color my opinion, but have they not held up? I mean AK and DC are looking like dudes fighting for BE FPOY, hell national even.

What I loved most is what I touched on above - ok, Newton wasn't dropping buckets today so instead he playmaked and drew fouls like crazy. Sanogo's getting stopped, well here's Clingan to totally change the game up. And so on. The team lineup is letting DH show he does have some in game chops and willingness to change direction - something many of us railed on the last couple of seasons, I hope this continues to be a mea culpa.

 

[80shusky]

Team showed the same quality depth they showed vs State. Some guys had off or below average nights and some stepped up and delivered when needed. It's what good/great teams do. The team beat a great opponent on a neutral floor by 15 and looked like the better team. They had a good defensive plan on Miller. Really outstanding game. I was hoping we'd get UNC tomorrow but Iowa State is a good team and a quality game. Can't wait but wish it wasn't at 10 pm on a Sunday.

 

[jibsey]

I just wish Alleyne would let his shot come more naturally in the offense. I'm not a fan of the step back 3, especially with the way the offense has been flowing at times.
I do like that he's been pretty tenacious on defense even when his shot is not falling.

Also, I like Newton's ability/willingness to let the team just suceed with him not having to score, but also being unafraid to shoot/score when they need him to.

Watching Joey C, I just have to wonder if he's ever played for a defense coach with the intensity of Hurley before. He just seems to be improving with every game. I also wonder if going up against Newton, Hawkins, Allleyne... etc in practice his helping his development as well. One of the advantages of depth, is it allows you to develop players more quickly because of who they battle every day.

Look at the defensive progress Hurley made with Hawkins.

 

[SixRings]

Here is a quick list of players who play better defense than Joey C:

Jackson
Sanogo
Clingan
Newton
Hawkins
Diarra
Alleyne
Karaban
Springs

Jury is still out on Roumoglou, Andrew Hurley and the Israeli guy. Please feel free to add to the list if I’m missing others.

i see that he’s improving his defense each game. He’s not a terrible liability. He’s also not as one dimensional on offense as I first thought. He’s got some interior moves off the glass. Btw…. Do you have a list of players with a 60.9% or better for 3pt shooting? Dude takes massive pressure off of our other scorers when he’s out there. He can’t keep this pace up but he’s a knock-down shooter that’s gonna get that Rashad Anderson respect from other teams. They’d be crazy not to play him M2M with one of their better defenders. If not, they’re gonna pay. That inbounds shot he made off the curl screen was a thing of beauty last night.

 

[Edward Sargent]

Dan also targeted shooters in the off-season and I think it’s fair to say that if Joey wasn’t shooting 60% from 3PT he wouldn’t be playing 20 minutes a game, Diarra would.

And he does play less than average defense relative to what we’ve seen from Hurley’s guards. You simply cannot ignore his impact on the offensive end of the court when talking about his minutes allocation and expect that argument to be taken seriously.

If you don’t understand the critique of his defense you aren’t watching the same game. More than any other backcourt player, he is beaten off the dribble time and time again.

More than Ajax who has drawn the ire of many for being beaten off the dribble

 

[BlueMAB]

More than Ajax who has drawn the ire of many for being beaten off the dribble

Yes. Far more. AJax is a much better on ball defender. It was explained in one of the threads that Hurley said they wanted to pressure Miller to force him to put the ball on the floor. Which meant AJax would play closer, which meant he would be more likely to get beat, but he had help.

I’m not going to waste my time discussing who is the better on-ball defender between Joey and Ajax. If you think Joey is the better defender try watching some games sober.

 

[BlueMAB]

Credit to Joey C on defense tonight. He struggled early, but played great defense late.

He’s not a liability on d. He’s still got work to do, but he deserves a lot of praise.