After Watching Canada-France, A More Detailed Assessment of Ms. Nurse

[UcMiami]

Eric - those were some of the exact plays I was thinking about when I mentioned Stewart needing to add strength - look at BG who was pretty much a bean pole in college - her shoulders are a lot more developed now. Part of this is just the maturation process of musculature catching up with growth spurts, but looking at BG I suspect there has been some serious gym work involved with heavy weights.
I know Uconn is going to go undefeated and crush all in the coming year, but ... replacing Dolson who was the heart of both the offense and defense last year with 4 freshman wings/guards leaves a lot of questions and a lot of work ahead for this team. They will be very good, but the front court is going to be challenged. I really like Kiah and I have high hopes for Morgan regaining her form, but the team now has only 3 players over 6' and that is pretty thin when one is returning from serious surgery and one is stepping into a starting role with no one really in place to replace her supporting role. Playing a lot of minutes with either Stewart or Tuck at center should Kiah falter or get into early foul trouble will be a tough ask.
I am not ignoring the loss of Bria - but there are 6 possible players to fill her shoes and only one to fill Dolson's.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Kia Nurse has not dominated the competition, but she's "playing up" by 5-15 years. Not even Maya or Stewie did that, nor did Britney or Diana. I think Kia is holding her own, which is very commendable. Of course, Kia is better at some things than others and needs to improve in just about every area. And she will. She has 4 years of Geno and Shea, UConn teammates, and UConn opposition.

I'm excited that Canada won, partly because I'll get to see them in person on Friday. Those of us in Istanbul will be able to report first-hand on her game. I expect a competent performance.

 

[j66kicker]

If I were UCONN fan I would be incredibly excited about Nurse and the experience she is getting. These WC games are very fast an physical and jumping from high school games where she could probably dominate all players she faced to facing grown women with many years of experience is pretty remarkable. She is going to go into her freshman year with tremendous confidence, which she already appears to have plenty of. She's 17!

Count me in as a Nurse fan! I think she is going to do some special things under the UCONN staff.

You are a UCONN fan - you just don't know it yet.

 

[genosguy]

France, who beat USA just about a week ago, only beat Canada by 2 points in today's game. I watched the replay on ESPN3 both because of the close score and to watch Kia Nurse in a difficult competitive situation.

My personal assessment after watching the game is that Kia is a good-but-not-great all-around athlete. Her speed, her shooting, her penetration, her passing, and her ability to keep her player in front of her on defense all seemed to fall into the good-but-not-great category. On one play, she tried to drive one-on-one against Celine Dumerc and didn't come close to succeeding. I didn't see any physical ability in which she seemed to have a surpassing talent. But there wasn't anything she was noticeably lacking in, either.

I would say, as a one-sentence summary, that her major athletic asset is above the shoulders. Her basketball brain seemed to work at high speed and with accuracy even in pressure situations. This was noticeable in her positioning, which seemed to be nearly flawless, especially on defense. She got several steals, tips, and one foul drawn on Sandrine Gruda (a much more experienced player) through smart positioning.

On offense, after bringing the ball up the court and passing it to a teammate, she would always go to the weak side and mostly stay there, looking for rebounds or back-door opportunities. It didn't seem like Canada planned to rely on her at all as an main offensive threat. But when the opportunities came, she was there to take advantage of them.

Another one-sentence summary would be: much closer to Kelly Faris than to Tiffany Hayes. And Geno got a lot of productivity out of Ms. Faris.

Based on reputation and press releases, the Tiffany of the new freshman class may well be Gabby Williams. It is possible that she and Kia Nurse will split the time at the 2 slot for the next two years (assuming that Saniya doesn't come back with an amazingly reliable jump shot, which she might do). That won't be a bad situation at all -- Gabby and Kia will have totally different games, and opponents may not find it comfortable to switch from one to the other.

TRY TO TELL ALL WHO "EVALUATE" KIA NURSE--SHE IS A HIGH SCHOOL PLAYER, HASN'T PLAYED ONE DAY OF COLLEGE YET!!!! However, your ; paraphrasing---Her abilities appear to be all above her shoulders---is interesting. Talent, Natural abilities are superb to have, and I believe Kia has them. Yet Geno recruits people who THINK have basketball IQ's. I doubt Kia is Kelly Faris--Faris had a great BB IQ and More than that desire--yet she lacked true talent had to work for all she got. Kia may have the desire and the IQ, it is my OPINION she has the talent that GENO shall bring for all to see.

Gabby William, if healthy and the injury does not impair her mentally too, has the potential to be among the near greats of UConn WBB. It would seem this class has NO real talented people (????) . Ekmark is a blue collar player, Gabby too, Edwards also, Kia too--is this the assessment??? Those that are NEAR great and play as a team may be Geno's secret weapons--my opinion. Sorry, if I come on strong but I have real belief in Kia, Ekmark, Gabby, hopes in Edwards. We don't need another class of Johnson, Englen, Walker (Steff was the shining light).

 

[genosguy]

Eric - those were some of the exact plays I was thinking about when I mentioned Stewart needing to add strength - look at BG who was pretty much a bean pole in college - her shoulders are a lot more developed now. Part of this is just the maturation process of musculature catching up with growth spurts, but looking at BG I suspect there has been some serious gym work involved with heavy weights.
I know Uconn is going to go undefeated and crush all in the coming year, but ... replacing Dolson who was the heart of both the offense and defense last year with 4 freshman wings/guards leaves a lot of questions and a lot of work ahead for this team. They will be very good, but the front court is going to be challenged. I really like Kiah and I have high hopes for Morgan regaining her form, but the team now has only 3 players over 6' and that is pretty thin when one is returning from serious surgery and one is stepping into a starting role with no one really in place to replace her supporting role. Playing a lot of minutes with either Stewart or Tuck at center should Kiah falter or get into early foul trouble will be a tough ask.
I am not ignoring the loss of Bria - but there are 6 possible players to fill her shoes and only one to fill Dolson's.

Replacing Dolson, a very poorly recruited over weight, freshman will be the problem for Uconn. Kiah Stokes has been working with Dad and brother(?) and with Geno having confidence in her she too shall have the confidence to do the job needed.
Gabby if fully healthy supposedly can jump high enough to dunk. KML has been a force around the basket this past season. Will Stewart play low or high? Tuck, when healthy, if you review the "tapes" you see what she can do in rebounding and scoring low--she's quiet but she too can be a force down low.
We shall see what Geno and the Coaching staff has done with the newbies--Kia and Stewie got experience you can't buy and maybe can't teach playing with their "national" teams.

 

[genosguy]

I'd rather have her be Faris than Hayes. UCONN got more out of the former.

I thought so too. I thought Hayes wasn't so much--until I looked at some old "tapes" where she played along side of Maya, I was surprised how good she was. I would have selected Faris over Hayes too--but not after watching those games again.

 

[genosguy]

I have to disagree with JoePgh's analysis of Kia Nurse. Kia is anything but average. Against the toughest international competition she has more than held her own and she is still in HS. You don't have to be an expert talent scout to know that she is very special!!!

I agree Kia is still a High School player for all practical purposes. But NOW she has international experience--The AVERAGE bear can't play effectively at this level--and Kia has.

 

[intlzncster]

I thought so too. I thought Hayes wasn't so much--until I looked at some old "tapes" where she played along side of Maya, I was surprised how good she was. I would have selected Faris over Hayes too--but not after watching those games again.

Faris brought much more in total to the game than Hayes imo. Hayes was good, without a doubt. But I feel like we could find another player like her. There haven't been too many like KF, who did all the dirty work at an exceptionally high level.

One of the things you are referring to with Hayes, involves the beneficial impact of playing with a player like Moore. I'm more concerned what they can do without Moore.

 

[intlzncster]

TRY TO TELL ALL WHO "EVALUATE" KIA NURSE--SHE IS A HIGH SCHOOL PLAYER, HASN'T PLAYED ONE DAY OF COLLEGE YET!!!! However, your ; paraphrasing---Her abilities appear to be all above her shoulders---is interesting. Talent, Natural abilities are superb to have, and I believe Kia has them. Yet Geno recruits people who THINK have basketball IQ's. I doubt Kia is Kelly Faris--Faris had a great BB IQ and More than that desire--yet she lacked true talent had to work for all she got. Kia may have the desire and the IQ, it is my OPINION she has the talent that GENO shall bring for all to see.

Faris had a ton of talent. Not great shooting talent mind you (in fact, that was her only real fault), but she could pass and defend as well as anyone. And physically, she was strong as an ox, capable of guarding 1-5.

 

[Zorro]

Hayes had a different set of skills, but she was just as indomitable.

 

[Sonny44]

I have to disagree with JoePgh's analysis of Kia Nurse. Kia is anything but average. Against the toughest international competition she has more than held her own and she is still in HS. You don't have to be an expert talent scout to know that she is very special!!!

Correct, not even close.

 

[Sonny44]

Hayes had a different set of skills, but she was just as indomitable.

No way.

 

[Bgillon]

I believe many people are reacting to Joe's conclusion about KN's athletic ability. He is basing it on WNBA level completion, which most of us believe is difficult to do at best. Clearly though, he gives her many accolades also. And he has given rise to a lot of thoughtful comments. My conclusion- well done Joe!

 

[UcMiami]

Replacing Dolson, a very poorly recruited over weight, freshman will be the problem for Uconn. Kiah Stokes has been working with Dad and brother(?) and with Geno having confidence in her she too shall have the confidence to do the job needed.
Gabby if fully healthy supposedly can jump high enough to dunk. KML has been a force around the basket this past season. Will Stewart play low or high? Tuck, when healthy, if you review the "tapes" you see what she can do in rebounding and scoring low--she's quiet but she too can be a force down low.
We shall see what Geno and the Coaching staff has done with the newbies--Kia and Stewie got experience you can't buy and maybe can't teach playing with their "national" teams.

All I am saying is when Dolson was out of the game as she was on average about 10 minutes each contest, Kiah Stokes replaced her. Now that Dolson is gone, when Kiah is out of the game for 10 minutes her replacement will be Morgan Tuck - so we have gone from 6'5" 200+ Lb post with great passing and a back-up post at 6'3 with great hops - to a 6'3" post with great hops with a replacement of a 6'2" post recovering from serious surgery. That is pretty significant and will change the look of the team on both ends of the floor. We don't play a lot of tall teams with great post players but if we go long in the NCAAs we will likely meeting up with a few teams where the inside play may not favor Uconn.

 

[lsj001]

And what teams may that be. The only teams with good inside talent are SC and ND. Both are young and unproven. I would have included Tenn but they are thin without Russell. The front line of Stokes, Stewie and KML will be favored over anyone.

 

[pvdoggy]

Since I just watched the replay of the Uconn/ND 2001 BE Championship game, I can see how UConn could struggle a little
with the inside game if faced with a big tall and mobile center like Ruth Riley, even with the front line of Stokes/Stewart/KML.
I don't know if there is such a player in CWBB this year. May be the center from BYU ?

 

[johnnyc]

Since I just watched the replay of the Uconn/ND 2001 BE Championship game, I can see how UConn could struggle a little
with the inside game if faced with a big tall and mobile center like Ruth Riley, even with the front line of Stokes/Stewart/KML.
I don't know if there is such a player in CWBB this year. May be the center from BYU ?

If you are referring to Jennifer Hamson of BYU she is graduated. Any team would have trouble defending someone like that....Griner comes to mind but first you have to get her the ball and with MoJeff, Nurse and Chong creating havoc up front that might not be so easy.

 

[Kibitzer]

All I am saying is when Dolson was out of the game as she was on average about 10 minutes each contest, Kiah Stokes replaced her. Now that Dolson is gone, when Kiah is out of the game for 10 minutes her replacement will be Morgan Tuck - so we have gone from 6'5" 200+ Lb post with great passing and a back-up post at 6'3 with great hops - to a 6'3" post with great hops with a replacement of a 6'2" post recovering from serious surgery. That is pretty significant and will change the look of the team on both ends of the floor. We don't play a lot of tall teams with great post players but if we go long in the NCAAs we will likely meeting up with a few teams where the inside play may not favor Uconn.

Being opposed by a team with a very tall star in the low post, even when that great player has a strong supporting cast, can be overcome by well coached talented teams with less height. Three examples leap to mind:

The Milwaukee Bucks and LA Lakers had the incredible 7'2" Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. He was supported by Oscar Robertson at Milwaukee and by Jerry West and Elgin Baylor at LA. Yet Celtics teams with 6'9" center Dave Cowens beat both those teams for NBA championships.

There has never been a more dominant center than 7'1" Wilt Chamberlain, both at Philadelphia and LA. But 6'9" Bill Russell had his number.

More recently (and more pertinent to this discussion), Baylor had 6'8" Griner (and Sims) but they were taken down by Louisville.​

My point is that the height (in the low post) advantage can be overcome by quality team play of less tall players. Just takes skill, motivation, coaching, and hearts of champions.

 

[hjoerring]

Faris brought much more in total to the game than Hayes imo. Hayes was good, without a doubt. But I feel like we could find another player like her. There haven't been too many like KF, who did all the dirty work at an exceptionally high level.

One of the things you are referring to with Hayes, involves the beneficial impact of playing with a player like Moore. I'm more concerned what they can do without Moore.

I think this Faris - Hayes comparison is a fallacy- we can all line up according to whom we like, but it gives no real meaning. Hayes is arguably one of the top WNBA players around (she sores regularly in double figures ....) The argument that she benefited from playing alongside Moore is of course a trueism- the whole team benefited. Faris was able to do all these 'exceptional' things only because of the team. On another team she might be sitting on the bench- as she is today. As I see it, Faris' skills were nurtured and developed and tailored to fit a particular team at a particular time. Given the players on the roster and those coming in next year it is not a given that a Faris would be given the same lattitude and playing time. Perhaps. But not a certainty. I do think though that a Hayes would be a starter (along with the now forgotten Doty). This is not a critique of Faris because without her- no championship in my view.

 

[Kibitzer]

I think this Faris - Hayes comparison is a fallacy- we can all line up according to whom we like, but it gives no real meaning. Hayes is arguably one of the top WNBA players around (she sores regularly in double figures ....) The argument that she benefited from playing alongside Moore is of course a trueism- the whole team benefited. Faris was able to do all these 'exceptional' things only because of the team. On another team she might be sitting on the bench- as she is today. As I see it, Faris' skills were nurtured and developed and tailored to fit a particular team at a particular time. Given the players on the roster and those coming in next year it is not a given that a Faris would be given the same lattitude and playing time. Perhaps. But not a certainty. I do think though that a Hayes would be a starter (along with the now forgotten Doty). This is not a critique of Faris because without her- no championship in my view.

I'll take your thoughtful comment one step further. The very idea of projecting what past UConn player will be reincarnate by some kid now in high school is a foolish (but harmless) practice.

 

[meyers7]

If you compare Faris and Hayes, it will just depend if you like Defense of Offense more. Hayes was better offensively than Faris. 11.7 ppg vs 7.2 ppg. A better pct shooter (2 and 3 pts), almost twice as FTs as Faris. Fairly close on Assists 483 vs 545.

Defensively though Faris has the better numbers. More Rebounds, Steals, blocks. Not by a huge margin though.

So it pretty much depends on what you like. More offense or more defense.

 

[cferraro04]

All I am saying is when Dolson was out of the game as she was on average about 10 minutes each contest, Kiah Stokes replaced her. Now that Dolson is gone, when Kiah is out of the game for 10 minutes her replacement will be Morgan Tuck - so we have gone from 6'5" 200+ Lb post with great passing and a back-up post at 6'3 with great hops - to a 6'3" post with great hops with a replacement of a 6'2" post recovering from serious surgery. That is pretty significant and will change the look of the team on both ends of the floor. We don't play a lot of tall teams with great post players but if we go long in the NCAAs we will likely meeting up with a few teams where the inside play may not favor Uconn.

All I'm going to say...is Morgan Tuck has not showed who she really is...she was at one time ranked number 1 in her class before her knee injury. She got to UConn after sitting out significant time during her high school career. She barely got into game shape when she got injured again... She has had significant time to recover this time...people will be amazed at what a great player Tuck is... My assessment of the change between last year's center and back-up and this years will be almost imperceptible by mid-season. Kia will be amazingly improved as she realizes that she is the starting center and she cannot defer to someone else... Tuck will be a far better back-up this year than Kia was last year... Folks trust me...it is going to be a fun year to be a husky fan...and if there are any weaknesses in the Husky team they won't come via Kia Stokes and Morgan Tuck. Here is a couple fair questions...how many Division one teams would love to have either one of those players on their roster? How many Division 1 teams would Kia and / or Morgan start for?

 

[UcMiami]

I think this Faris - Hayes comparison is a fallacy- we can all line up according to whom we like, but it gives no real meaning. Hayes is arguably one of the top WNBA players around (she sores regularly in double figures ....) The argument that she benefited from playing alongside Moore is of course a trueism- the whole team benefited. Faris was able to do all these 'exceptional' things only because of the team. On another team she might be sitting on the bench- as she is today. As I see it, Faris' skills were nurtured and developed and tailored to fit a particular team at a particular time. Given the players on the roster and those coming in next year it is not a given that a Faris would be given the same lattitude and playing time. Perhaps. But not a certainty. I do think though that a Hayes would be a starter (along with the now forgotten Doty). This is not a critique of Faris because without her- no championship in my view.

Of course Hayes was not a started until injuries forced Geno's hand - Doty was the starter of choice as a freshman. Given the incoming class and the returning guards, I doubt Hayes would be getting many minutes as a freshman on this team or next years either.

 

[intlzncster]

I'll take your thoughtful comment one step further. The very idea of projecting what past UConn player will be reincarnate by some kid now in high school is a foolish (but harmless) practice.

Foolish though it may be, it's one of the most enjoyable things to do on a sports forum.

 

[intlzncster]

I think this Faris - Hayes comparison is a fallacy- we can all line up according to whom we like, but it gives no real meaning. Hayes is arguably one of the top WNBA players around (she sores regularly in double figures ....) The argument that she benefited from playing alongside Moore is of course a trueism- the whole team benefited. Faris was able to do all these 'exceptional' things only because of the team. On another team she might be sitting on the bench- as she is today. As I see it, Faris' skills were nurtured and developed and tailored to fit a particular team at a particular time. Given the players on the roster and those coming in next year it is not a given that a Faris would be given the same lattitude and playing time. Perhaps. But not a certainty. I do think though that a Hayes would be a starter (along with the now forgotten Doty). This is not a critique of Faris because without her- no championship in my view.

For the record, I was referring solely to their college careers, not their pro career. There's no team in college basketball in which Kelly Faris would have sat the bench. In fact, on the vast majority, she'd have been a 4 year starter.