After Watching Canada-France, A More Detailed Assessment of Ms. Nurse

[genosguy]

I'd rather have her be Faris than Hayes. UCONN got more out of the former.

I thought so too. I thought Hayes wasn't so much--until I looked at some old "tapes" where she played along side of Maya, I was surprised how good she was. I would have selected Faris over Hayes too--but not after watching those games again.

 

[genosguy]

I have to disagree with JoePgh's analysis of Kia Nurse. Kia is anything but average. Against the toughest international competition she has more than held her own and she is still in HS. You don't have to be an expert talent scout to know that she is very special!!!

I agree Kia is still a High School player for all practical purposes. But NOW she has international experience--The AVERAGE bear can't play effectively at this level--and Kia has.

 

[intlzncster]

I thought so too. I thought Hayes wasn't so much--until I looked at some old "tapes" where she played along side of Maya, I was surprised how good she was. I would have selected Faris over Hayes too--but not after watching those games again.

Faris brought much more in total to the game than Hayes imo. Hayes was good, without a doubt. But I feel like we could find another player like her. There haven't been too many like Kelis Fisher, who did all the dirty work at an exceptionally high level.

One of the things you are referring to with Hayes, involves the beneficial impact of playing with a player like Moore. I'm more concerned what they can do without Moore.

 

[intlzncster]

TRY TO TELL ALL WHO "EVALUATE" KIA NURSE--SHE IS A HIGH SCHOOL PLAYER, HASN'T PLAYED ONE DAY OF COLLEGE YET!!!! However, your ; paraphrasing---Her abilities appear to be all above her shoulders---is interesting. Talent, Natural abilities are superb to have, and I believe Kia has them. Yet Geno recruits people who THINK have basketball IQ's. I doubt Kia is Kelly Faris--Faris had a great BB IQ and More than that desire--yet she lacked true talent had to work for all she got. Kia may have the desire and the IQ, it is my OPINION she has the talent that GENO shall bring for all to see.

Faris had a ton of talent. Not great shooting talent mind you (in fact, that was her only real fault), but she could pass and defend as well as anyone. And physically, she was strong as an ox, capable of guarding 1-5.

 

[Zorro]

Hayes had a different set of skills, but she was just as indomitable.

 

[Sonny44]

I have to disagree with JoePgh's analysis of Kia Nurse. Kia is anything but average. Against the toughest international competition she has more than held her own and she is still in HS. You don't have to be an expert talent scout to know that she is very special!!!

Correct, not even close.

 

[Sonny44]

Hayes had a different set of skills, but she was just as indomitable.

No way.

 

[Bgillon]

I believe many people are reacting to Joe's conclusion about KN's athletic ability. He is basing it on WNBA level completion, which most of us believe is difficult to do at best. Clearly though, he gives her many accolades also. And he has given rise to a lot of thoughtful comments. My conclusion- well done Joe!

 

[UcMiami]

Replacing Dolson, a very poorly recruited over weight, freshman will be the problem for Uconn. Kiah Stokes has been working with Dad and brother(?) and with Geno having confidence in her she too shall have the confidence to do the job needed.
Gabby if fully healthy supposedly can jump high enough to dunk. KML has been a force around the basket this past season. Will Stewart play low or high? Tuck, when healthy, if you review the "tapes" you see what she can do in rebounding and scoring low--she's quiet but she too can be a force down low.
We shall see what Geno and the Coaching staff has done with the newbies--Kia and Stewie got experience you can't buy and maybe can't teach playing with their "national" teams.

All I am saying is when Dolson was out of the game as she was on average about 10 minutes each contest, Kiah Stokes replaced her. Now that Dolson is gone, when Kiah is out of the game for 10 minutes her replacement will be Morgan Tuck - so we have gone from 6'5" 200+ Lb post with great passing and a back-up post at 6'3 with great hops - to a 6'3" post with great hops with a replacement of a 6'2" post recovering from serious surgery. That is pretty significant and will change the look of the team on both ends of the floor. We don't play a lot of tall teams with great post players but if we go long in the NCAAs we will likely meeting up with a few teams where the inside play may not favor Uconn.

 

[lsj001]

And what teams may that be. The only teams with good inside talent are SC and ND. Both are young and unproven. I would have included Tenn but they are thin without Russell. The front line of Stokes, Stewie and KML will be favored over anyone.

 

[pvdoggy]

Since I just watched the replay of the Uconn/ND 2001 BE Championship game, I can see how UConn could struggle a little
with the inside game if faced with a big tall and mobile center like Ruth Riley, even with the front line of Stokes/Stewart/KML.
I don't know if there is such a player in CWBB this year. May be the center from BYU ?

 

[johnnyc]

Since I just watched the replay of the Uconn/ND 2001 BE Championship game, I can see how UConn could struggle a little
with the inside game if faced with a big tall and mobile center like Ruth Riley, even with the front line of Stokes/Stewart/KML.
I don't know if there is such a player in CWBB this year. May be the center from BYU ?

If you are referring to Jennifer Hamson of BYU she is graduated. Any team would have trouble defending someone like that....Griner comes to mind but first you have to get her the ball and with MoJeff, Nurse and Chong creating havoc up front that might not be so easy.

 

[Kibitzer]

All I am saying is when Dolson was out of the game as she was on average about 10 minutes each contest, Kiah Stokes replaced her. Now that Dolson is gone, when Kiah is out of the game for 10 minutes her replacement will be Morgan Tuck - so we have gone from 6'5" 200+ Lb post with great passing and a back-up post at 6'3 with great hops - to a 6'3" post with great hops with a replacement of a 6'2" post recovering from serious surgery. That is pretty significant and will change the look of the team on both ends of the floor. We don't play a lot of tall teams with great post players but if we go long in the NCAAs we will likely meeting up with a few teams where the inside play may not favor Uconn.

Being opposed by a team with a very tall star in the low post, even when that great player has a strong supporting cast, can be overcome by well coached talented teams with less height. Three examples leap to mind:

The Milwaukee Bucks and LA Lakers had the incredible 7'2" Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. He was supported by Oscar Robertson at Milwaukee and by Jerry West and Elgin Baylor at LA. Yet Celtics teams with 6'9" center Dave Cowens beat both those teams for NBA championships.

There has never been a more dominant center than 7'1" Wilt Chamberlain, both at Philadelphia and LA. But 6'9" Bill Russell had his number.

More recently (and more pertinent to this discussion), Baylor had 6'8" Griner (and Sims) but they were taken down by Louisville.​

My point is that the height (in the low post) advantage can be overcome by quality team play of less tall players. Just takes skill, motivation, coaching, and hearts of champions.

 

[hjoerring]

Faris brought much more in total to the game than Hayes imo. Hayes was good, without a doubt. But I feel like we could find another player like her. There haven't been too many like Kelis Fisher, who did all the dirty work at an exceptionally high level.

One of the things you are referring to with Hayes, involves the beneficial impact of playing with a player like Moore. I'm more concerned what they can do without Moore.

I think this Faris - Hayes comparison is a fallacy- we can all line up according to whom we like, but it gives no real meaning. Hayes is arguably one of the top WNBA players around (she sores regularly in double figures ....) The argument that she benefited from playing alongside Moore is of course a trueism- the whole team benefited. Faris was able to do all these 'exceptional' things only because of the team. On another team she might be sitting on the bench- as she is today. As I see it, Faris' skills were nurtured and developed and tailored to fit a particular team at a particular time. Given the players on the roster and those coming in next year it is not a given that a Faris would be given the same lattitude and playing time. Perhaps. But not a certainty. I do think though that a Hayes would be a starter (along with the now forgotten Doty). This is not a critique of Faris because without her- no championship in my view.

 

[Kibitzer]

I think this Faris - Hayes comparison is a fallacy- we can all line up according to whom we like, but it gives no real meaning. Hayes is arguably one of the top WNBA players around (she sores regularly in double figures ....) The argument that she benefited from playing alongside Moore is of course a trueism- the whole team benefited. Faris was able to do all these 'exceptional' things only because of the team. On another team she might be sitting on the bench- as she is today. As I see it, Faris' skills were nurtured and developed and tailored to fit a particular team at a particular time. Given the players on the roster and those coming in next year it is not a given that a Faris would be given the same lattitude and playing time. Perhaps. But not a certainty. I do think though that a Hayes would be a starter (along with the now forgotten Doty). This is not a critique of Faris because without her- no championship in my view.

I'll take your thoughtful comment one step further. The very idea of projecting what past UConn player will be reincarnate by some kid now in high school is a foolish (but harmless) practice.

 

[meyers7]

If you compare Faris and Hayes, it will just depend if you like Defense of Offense more. Hayes was better offensively than Faris. 11.7 ppg vs 7.2 ppg. A better pct shooter (2 and 3 pts), almost twice as FTs as Faris. Fairly close on Assists 483 vs 545.

Defensively though Faris has the better numbers. More Rebounds, Steals, blocks. Not by a huge margin though.

So it pretty much depends on what you like. More offense or more defense.

 

[cferraro04]

All I am saying is when Dolson was out of the game as she was on average about 10 minutes each contest, Kiah Stokes replaced her. Now that Dolson is gone, when Kiah is out of the game for 10 minutes her replacement will be Morgan Tuck - so we have gone from 6'5" 200+ Lb post with great passing and a back-up post at 6'3 with great hops - to a 6'3" post with great hops with a replacement of a 6'2" post recovering from serious surgery. That is pretty significant and will change the look of the team on both ends of the floor. We don't play a lot of tall teams with great post players but if we go long in the NCAAs we will likely meeting up with a few teams where the inside play may not favor Uconn.

All I'm going to say...is Morgan Tuck has not showed who she really is...she was at one time ranked number 1 in her class before her knee injury. She got to UConn after sitting out significant time during her high school career. She barely got into game shape when she got injured again... She has had significant time to recover this time...people will be amazed at what a great player Tuck is... My assessment of the change between last year's center and back-up and this years will be almost imperceptible by mid-season. Kia will be amazingly improved as she realizes that she is the starting center and she cannot defer to someone else... Tuck will be a far better back-up this year than Kia was last year... Folks trust me...it is going to be a fun year to be a husky fan...and if there are any weaknesses in the Husky team they won't come via Kia Stokes and Morgan Tuck. Here is a couple fair questions...how many Division one teams would love to have either one of those players on their roster? How many Division 1 teams would Kia and / or Morgan start for?

 

[UcMiami]

I think this Faris - Hayes comparison is a fallacy- we can all line up according to whom we like, but it gives no real meaning. Hayes is arguably one of the top WNBA players around (she sores regularly in double figures ....) The argument that she benefited from playing alongside Moore is of course a trueism- the whole team benefited. Faris was able to do all these 'exceptional' things only because of the team. On another team she might be sitting on the bench- as she is today. As I see it, Faris' skills were nurtured and developed and tailored to fit a particular team at a particular time. Given the players on the roster and those coming in next year it is not a given that a Faris would be given the same lattitude and playing time. Perhaps. But not a certainty. I do think though that a Hayes would be a starter (along with the now forgotten Doty). This is not a critique of Faris because without her- no championship in my view.

Of course Hayes was not a started until injuries forced Geno's hand - Doty was the starter of choice as a freshman. Given the incoming class and the returning guards, I doubt Hayes would be getting many minutes as a freshman on this team or next years either.

 

[intlzncster]

I'll take your thoughtful comment one step further. The very idea of projecting what past UConn player will be reincarnate by some kid now in high school is a foolish (but harmless) practice.

Foolish though it may be, it's one of the most enjoyable things to do on a sports forum.

 

[intlzncster]

I think this Faris - Hayes comparison is a fallacy- we can all line up according to whom we like, but it gives no real meaning. Hayes is arguably one of the top WNBA players around (she sores regularly in double figures ....) The argument that she benefited from playing alongside Moore is of course a trueism- the whole team benefited. Faris was able to do all these 'exceptional' things only because of the team. On another team she might be sitting on the bench- as she is today. As I see it, Faris' skills were nurtured and developed and tailored to fit a particular team at a particular time. Given the players on the roster and those coming in next year it is not a given that a Faris would be given the same lattitude and playing time. Perhaps. But not a certainty. I do think though that a Hayes would be a starter (along with the now forgotten Doty). This is not a critique of Faris because without her- no championship in my view.

For the record, I was referring solely to their college careers, not their pro career. There's no team in college basketball in which Kelly Faris would have sat the bench. In fact, on the vast majority, she'd have been a 4 year starter.

 

[UcMiami]

All I'm going to say...is Morgan Tuck has not showed who she really is...she was at one time ranked number 1 in her class before her knee injury. She got to UConn after sitting out significant time during her high school career. She barely got into game shape when she got injured again... She has had significant time to recover this time...people will be amazed at what a great player Tuck is... My assessment of the change between last year's center and back-up and this years will be almost imperceptible by mid-season. Kia will be amazingly improved as she realizes that she is the starting center and she cannot defer to someone else... Tuck will be a far better back-up this year than Kia was last year... Folks trust me...it is going to be a fun year to be a husky fan...and if there are any weaknesses in the Husky team they won't come via Kia Stokes and Morgan Tuck. Here is a couple fair questions...how many Division one teams would love to have either one of those players on their roster? How many Division 1 teams would Kia and / or Morgan start for?

Well ... I absolutely agree about Morgan's potential though projecting anyone who has spent so much of the last 5 years injured is not an exact science - I believe it has been five years since she was able to play a full season injury free. And while I have high hopes for Kiah ('h' please) and she is more athletic and a better jumper than Dolson - you are talking about replacing a four year starter who averaged about 12 ppg in her career and had over 250 assists her last two years with a 3 year bench player who has averaged around 4 ppg and has a total of 72 assists in her career. Whatever happens by mid-season the Uconn offense is going to look radically different from the past few years where it all flowed through the unique passing skills of Dolson.
As for Morgan succeeding in a defensive role as center - she is a very good defender but I am not aware of her spending a lot of time defensively in the role of center - she was quite successful in guarding Stewart in HS but Stewart was a forward and Morgan was significantly stronger than her while giving up 2" and some added arm length. Geno could design defensive game plans against even centers like Griner where Dolson/Stokes were primarily responsible for one on one defense. With either Stewart or Morgan replacing Stokes at center defensively when Stokes takes a breather, I doubt he can continue with that plan.
I am pretty confident Uconn will repeat as campions this year - I am just being realistic in identifying the center position as a weakness on the 2014 team - there is a reason Uconn has been going strong after centers the last couple of years and that a lot of discussion on recruiting here has focused on the need for more height.

 

[Bgillon]

in comparing KN to Faris, don't forget Geno said Faris was the best athlete on the team! That's where Joe's questioning of KN's athleticism seems odd.

 

[cferraro04]

I am also being realistic in that I do not believe that the Center position will be a weakness. Kiah ("h" included) is one of those players who has the ability to perform...you have seen glimpses of it over the years and there were stretches where she was brilliant and where she was consistent on the boards and looked for her shot more than she had in previous years. Kiah's body is much more defined than Stephanie was...she has a WBA body...it has always been what was going on above the shoulders. Kiah knows the center position is hers, she will get significantly more minutes than in the past. Take a look at her points, rebounds per minute and if that doesn't excite you I don't know what else to say. Yeah, Morgan has been a sort of bad luck kid but I see no reason to believe that she won't be able to play a full season...She has had her injury repaired, it has been cleaned up, she has had adequate time to rehab, she is hungry, she also knows it is her time. Call me an optimist but I think the Center position will certainly miss the big girl, her passing from the center position was a luxury that few teams have... McCarville was a great passing center, Ruth Riley was a good passing center as was Stamford's Jane Appel but, these kinds of players at the 5 are unusual in the college game. So, it would foolish to believe that we won't miss Stephanie...but, my gut tells me that barring any injury to either Kiah or Morgan our front court will be fine.

When discussing the front court of UConn because of the versatility of players you have to include KML and Breanna Stewart. We must keep in mind because KML is the type of player she is...a good all-around player who does much more than just shoot the ball. KML is a good rebounding forward, can post up. Stewart is also a player who will will help the statistics of the front court players...If worse comes to worse...Breanna can and will play the 5...she has already said that she wants to improve in the post with her back to the basket. Were we deeper last year than this year...well sort of...we did have three post players...Stephanie, the under-performing Kiah Stokes and the injured Morgan Tuck...so, really what is different this year....our margin of error should one of them get injured is smaller. My prediction for UConn's front court this season is as follows:

Last year:

Stephanie Dolson - 12.5 points; 9.3 rebounds; 2.33 blocks per game in 32.3 minutes per game (40 games)
Morgan Tuck - 7.5 points; 2.4 rebounds; 14.5 minutes per game (8 games)
Kiah Stokes - 4.5 points; 7.1 rebounds; 2.28 blocks per game in 18.5 minutes per game (39 games)
KML - 13.4 points; 5.4 rebounds; 29 minutes per game (28 games)
Breanna Stewart - 19.4 points; 8.1 rebounds; 2,75 blocks per game in 30.5 minutes (40 games)

This year based on per minute play with no improvement:

KML, Morgan and Kiah will get more minutes...I can see Kiah getting 30 minutes per game; Morgan getting 20 minutes per game. KML will probably play about 32 minutes per game, Breanna will probably play about 32 minutes per game.

Kiah Stokes, if she performs at the same level as last year with no improvement for 30 minutes a game. Based on her per minute production she would average: 7.3 points; 11.51 rebounds; 3.7 blocks
Morgan Tuck, if she performs at the same level as last year with no improvement for 20 minutes a game. Based on her per minute production she would average: 10.34 points; 3.31 rebounds.
KML, if she performs at the same level as last year with no improvement for 32 minutes a game. Based on her per minute production she would average: 15.31 points; 6.17 rebounds
Stewart, if she performs at the same level as last year with no improvement for 32 minutes a game. Based on her per minute production she would average: 20.34 points; 8.5 rebounds; 2.9 blocks.

So, based on per minute play with no improvement:

2013-2014 season: 57,30 points; 32.3 rebounds; 7.36 blocks
2014-2015 season: 53.29 points; 29.49 rebounds; 6.6 blocks

Based on per minute play with projected modest improvement

Now, let's assume some mild improvement due to improved health and physical shape of KML; improved health of Morgan Tuck, Kiah Stokes senior year and leadership role; Breanna Stewart just plain off the charts ability that keeps improving, not to mention her World Championship Team experience playing overseas with USA basketball.

Projected statistics for 2014-1015 season

Kiah Stokes ("h") included - 10 points; 12.5 rebounds; 4 blocks
Morgan Tuck - 12 points; 5 rebounds
KML - 18 points; 7 rebounds
Breanna Stewart - 22 points; 10 rebounds, 3.5 blocks

Projected combined statistics for 2014-2015 season: 62 points; 34.5 rebounds; 7.5 blocks

Projected Differential per category:

Points = +4.7
Rebounds = +2.2
Blocks = +.9

 

[watanabe]

Hah! Must be a slow news day.

 

[DaddyChoc]

Hah! Must be a slow news day.

You got anything better?

 

[RadyLady]

Well ... I absolutely agree about Morgan's potential though projecting anyone who has spent so much of the last 5 years injured is not an exact science - I believe it has been five years since she was able to play a full season injury free. And while I have high hopes for Kiah ('h' please) and she is more athletic and a better jumper than Dolson - you are talking about replacing a four year starter who averaged about 12 ppg in her career and had over 250 assists her last two years with a 3 year bench player who has averaged around 4 ppg and has a total of 72 assists in her career. Whatever happens by mid-season the Uconn offense is going to look radically different from the past few years where it all flowed through the unique passing skills of Dolson.
As for Morgan succeeding in a defensive role as center - she is a very good defender but I am not aware of her spending a lot of time defensively in the role of center - she was quite successful in guarding Stewart in HS but Stewart was a forward and Morgan was significantly stronger than her while giving up 2" and some added arm length. Geno could design defensive game plans against even centers like Griner where Dolson/Stokes were primarily responsible for one on one defense. With either Stewart or Morgan replacing Stokes at center defensively when Stokes takes a breather, I doubt he can continue with that plan.
I am pretty confident Uconn will repeat as campions this year - I am just being realistic in identifying the center position as a weakness on the 2014 team - there is a reason Uconn has been going strong after centers the last couple of years and that a lot of discussion on recruiting here has focused on the need for more height.

I don't know Miami - It appears though that you are straddling the fence on this issue, perhaps covering your bets. We have three folks possibly four who are capable of handling this position for some minutes in games: Stokes of course at 6'3", Tuck at 6'2", Kaleena whom we have seen step in and do some work in the paint in the past - she is strong though 5'11", and Stewey at 6'4". That's a lot of height. And we have had years in the past where we had roughly the same personnel, and they were championship years. The first that comes to mind is 1995 with Lobo, Wolter, and Jamelle granted Kara was a huge presence at 6'7"

The second and third that come to mind are the two years with Tina where we won the championship - 2009 and 2010, both with Maya Meghan Gardler, and Kaili McClaren.

Granted We have not seen the full force of Tuck given her injuries, but what I saw when she played with her injuries was pretty good, and she can shoot the three as well, and Kiah could still be considered a question mark - yes she shined in her minutes last year, yet will that carry forth in a(n) (assumed) starting role this year. It remains to be seen. And yes, the offense did run through Stef at the high post, but that is something that didn't always happen at UConn, so that likely will change as it is nothing new to Geno and the coaches at least. I think that the last time we had a post with that talent was when McClaren was on the roster.

Still we have some height, no more or less than past championship years. It is up to Geno to put the pieces of this year's puzzle together. We will be rated #1 at the start of the season, and it will be interesting, as always to see how the season plays out.

 

[VAMike23]

I think Stokes is the key cog in the machine this year. If she takes a big step forward in her consistency and production over more minutes (she's always been excellent on a per-minute basis but this does not always translate), we should be unstoppable.

If she does not, and we have to rely on center-by-committee, then I think there will be some nights when we don't look all that great, more than just the normal ups and downs that college teams will always have. Even in this scenario it's hard to see us losing more than a game or two but it's at least a possibility. Crazy things do happen.

A dominant Stokes--at least by year-end, a la Tina her JR year--means this squad would renew the conversation re: great UCONN teams.

 

[Kibitzer]

Height is important, but not the only factor of importance.

Take Kaleena, for example. She reminds me a lot of Charles Barkley (on court only) -- she has a very sturdy build and is really strong. When she posts another player up, she is immovable; when she boxes another player out, they stay boxed out; and when she gets her mitts on the ball, she is as tenacious as a Doberman with a T-bone. (For you real old-timers, think Wes Unseld.)

Players named Russell, Rodman and Faris snagged far more rebounds than many taller players because they outleaped or outhustled the other guys.

Is height important? Of course. But don't forget those other attributes, especially players who seem to have "a nose for the ball."

 

[JRRRJ]

Last year:

Stephanie Dolson - 12.5 points; 9.3 rebounds; 2.33 blocks per game in 32.3 minutes per game (40 games)
Morgan Tuck - 7.5 points; 2.4 rebounds; 14.5 minutes per game (8 games)
Kiah Stokes - 4.5 points; 7.1 rebounds; 2.28 blocks per game in 18.5 minutes per game (39 games)
KML - 13.4 points; 5.4 rebounds; 29 minutes per game (28 games)
Breanna Stewart - 19.4 points; 8.1 rebounds; 2,75 blocks per game in 30.5 minutes (40 games)

If you just look at the toughest part of last year's schedule: 11/11/13 Stanford to 12/22/13 Cal, which includes the 2 games Kiah started, the numbers for those 11 games look like this:
MPG: 20.4 PPG: 7.2 RPG: 8.3 BPG: 3.0

Extended to your 30 MPG assumption:
MPG: 30 PPG: 10.6 RPG: 12.2 BPG: 4.4

For another tough stretch (the NCAA tourney), here's what we get for actual numbers:
MPG: 16.8 PPG: 3.5 RPG: 6.8 BPG: 1.3

And, those numbers for 30 min would be:
MPG: 30 PPG: 6.24 RPG: 12.2 BPG: 2.4

For me, the most enjoyable part of watching Kiah last year was knowing that she would have a rebound within 20 seconds after being inserted into the game for the first time.

Barring the injury bug, I think we're OK at on the front line. Brianna had a better assist/TO performance than Stephanie last year with almost as many assists. With her holding the high post I'm asserting this year will be even better in that regard.

 

[rvwsleep]

Who plays center and how well they play it will only have a determination on the outcome of the 4 or 5 out of conference games UConn has against top opponents and then again in the NCAA tournament (and even in the NCAA's it probably won't matter until the 3rd round). It will not make any difference who plays center in any of the conference games. As long as Stewart, Stokes and Tuck are healthy for the NCAA's, I like their chances.