About Those Last 6 Minutes vs. Creighton ...

[drweo]

One other element of breaking the press that’s often effective which Geno did not use is to put a big like Liv or Dorka on the floor to screen and/or catch the inbound pass. Liv & Dorka are both tall enough to hold the ball above their head, see over all the Creighton players and find the open teammate. Geno used Aaliyah & 4 guards at the end of the game. I was a little surprised he didn’t use one of his bigs in that situation, like he used to use Stewie to break presses.

I agree. When they were having trouble taking the ball out, I was yelling at the tv, " Where's Olivia?"

 

[Littlemin]

Your point is well taken. Philosophically, I always hated Dean Smith’s 4-corners offense, or any effort to run the clock out by playing “keep away.” I absolutely believe that the best way to deal with a press is to attack it and the basket. That usually results in a basket or a trip to the foul line.

I agree wholeheartedly

 

[BobbyJ]

My question is, after playing top tier hoops for the better part of a decade ( little less for some) shouldn’t they already know how to beat a press?
Where NOT to take the ball?
Where the open player is as a result of the direction of the incoming pressure?
Same with the inbound pass?
Isn’t it pretty much basketball 101?
Some wrinkles but not reinventing the wheel, no?

Remember Ron White's line, "I had the right to remain silent, but I didn't have the ability"? They may know where to go and where to throw it. But they can't. When they practice something regularly and still have trouble when the defense is in their face, there's a problem.

 

[HuskyNan]

My question is, after playing top tier hoops for the better part of a decade ( little less for some) shouldn’t they already know how to beat a press?
Where NOT to take the ball?
Where the open player is as a result of the direction of the incoming pressure?
Same with the inbound pass?
Isn’t it pretty much basketball 101?
Some wrinkles but not reinventing the wheel, no?

I’ve seen a ton of AAU and high school games and at that level most teams play a zone defense. They’re too busy running up the court and getting into position to run a press. What you see an awful lot is point guards chucking the ball up the court and players trying for a quick fast break basket. That style of play doesn’t lend itself to pressure.

 

[MD#12Fan]

Your point is well taken. Philosophically, I always hated Dean Smith’s 4-corners offense, or any effort to run the clock out by playing “keep away.” I absolutely believe that the best way to deal with a press is to attack it and the basket. That usually results in a basket or a trip to the foul line.

Ugh, really? This is x's and 0's talk?
Firstly, there are dozens and dozens of presses and they all have certain intended consequences, some to speed up the opponent, some to slow down the opponent, some super aggressive presses to get turnovers and steals, some to just eat into the shot clock. Sure, attacking a press can be effective, it can also be risky, putting players in uncomfortable positions, and yes, perhaps, speeding them up.
Apples and oranges- the 4-corners was a stall and Dean was unapologetic about it. It was a strategy for the time, a time with no shot clock. Every school in America had some version of the 4-corners for end of game situations. At that time, (come on, you're as old as me) there was not a philosophy about end of game stall situations, it was how the game was played. Where it got tricky was when underdogs tried to basically stall for the whole game. UNC and UVA with Ralph Sampson ugliness led finally to the shot clock being instituted.
Famous game- if I can get it right- late 60's UMD beat South Carolina (ACC power) 13-9 behind Howard White and Jim O'Brien. (Gary Williams on that team)

 

[TCC Kid]

One correction. Liv’s 3 pt play were not her “only points of the day.” Liv was 3 for 6, scoring 7 pts to go along with her 7 rebounds, 3 assists & 1 steal.

Otherwise, I do believe the lack of games and limited number of players available to practice most directly affected UConn’s struggles with the Creighton press. I suspect Geno will spend some time working on breaking the press in practice this week.

I think we fans are forgetting Geno's pre-game comments: We are playing with 6.5 players. That message was probably sent during pregame prep talk. Don't foul. One must step aside and allow some shots normally defended. The basket isn't worst than getting the foul. (referring to your "limited number of players). Concur

 

[oldude]

I think we fans are forgetting Geno's pre-game comments: We are playing with 6.5 players. That message was probably sent during pregame prep talk. Don't foul. One must step aside and allow some shots normally defended. The basket isn't worst than getting the foul. (referring to your "limited number of players). Concur

I get the “no fouling” mantra. But I’m talking about breaking Creighton’s press. Not sure how the two subjects are related?

 

[tower1]

This team is a new team with experienced players playing out of position. They all know the fundamentals of breaking a press, but haven't worked together on who will be where and when. The press didn't really work that well as UConn never turned the ball over in the back court. Also remember the best ball handler fouled out.

That's a poor excuse >

 

[TCC Kid]

Your point is well taken. Philosophically, I always hated Dean Smith’s 4-corners offense, or any effort to run the clock out by playing “keep away.” I absolutely believe that the best way to deal with a press is to attack it and the basket. That usually results in a basket or a trip to the foul line.

You would have hated the Uconn Men Vs URI for the Yankee Conf Championship. Top Uconn players didn't make the trip. Score at half time was something like 6 to 7, and the second half wasn't much different. I listened (No TV) on the radio and I ate it up. each basket could have been the winner. I, at times, loved Dean Smith and at times not so much. But his 4 corners worked well for him and he got what he wanted--a shot clock.

 

[Bald Husky]

Yes that’s clearly true. Paige, Azzi, Aubrey, and, until yesterday, Nika haven’t been showing up……

I can’t imagine where they’ve been?

Good One

 

[oldude]

You would have hated the Uconn Men Vs URI for the Yankee Conf Championship. Top Uconn players didn't make the trip. Score at half time was something like 6 to 7, and the second half wasn't much different. I listened (No TV) on the radio and I ate it up. each basket could have been the winner. I, at times, loved Dean Smith and at times not so much. But his 4 corners worked well for him and he got what he wanted--a shot clock.

Even more difficult to watch was Pete Carril’s Princeton offense. Unlike the 4 corners, Princeton was actually trying to score, and the Tigers would run that offense the entire game. Princeton would run their offense for as long as it took, sometimes 5-6 minutes at a time, until they got a backdoor layup.

Having mentioned Carril’s offense in a derogatory manner, it should be noted that every great coach from John Wooden to Geno incorporated aspects of Carril’s motion offense into their own offensive philosophy

 

[MD#12Fan]

Even more difficult to watch was Pete Carril’s Princeton offense. Unlike the 4 corners, Princeton was actually trying to score, and the Tigers would run that offense the entire game. Princeton would run their offense for as long as it took, sometimes 5-6 minutes at a time, until they got a backdoor layup.

Having mentioned Carril’s offense in a derogatory manner, it should be noted that every great coach from John Wooden to Geno incorporated aspects of Carril’s motion offense into their own offensive philosophy

Ouch, I'm not in my usual lock-step with you today.
Princeton, post shot clock, 1989 NCAA Tournament, first round, 16 seed versus 1 seed and powerhouse Georgetown. Georgetown survived 50-49. Arguably basketball perfection. (ala Villanova in the championship game 1985)

 

[Soxx]

One other element of breaking the press that’s often effective which Geno did not use is to put a big like Liv or Dorka on the floor to screen and/or catch the inbound pass. Liv & Dorka are both tall enough to hold the ball above their head, see over all the Creighton players and find the open teammate. Geno used Aaliyah & 4 guards at the end of the game. I was a little surprised he didn’t use one of his bigs in that situation, like he used to use Stewie to break presses.

And Aliyah seemed to freeze—not knowing where to throw the ball.

 

[oldude]

Ouch, I'm not in my usual lock-step with you today.
Princeton, post shot clock, 1989 NCAA Tournament, first round, 16 seed versus 1 seed and powerhouse Georgetown. Georgetown survived 50-49. Arguably basketball perfection. (ala Villanova in the championship game 1985)

My references to Pete Carril’s offense, along with Dean Smith’s offense were clearly both pre-shot clock. I also acknowledge Carril’s extensive influence on the coaching profession including on Geno. I watched Carril’s offense up close in college, prior to the shot clock. It was maddening to watch them run their sets over and over and over again, without putting up a shot.

As you point out, Carril’s smart, but undermanned teams could compete with anyone, including Georgetown. I watched that game, rooting for Princeton to pull off the unprecedented upset. As I recall the Tigers had a nice halftime lead and pretty much led the entire game until Georgetown basically overpowered them in the last 5 minutes.

 

[MD#12Fan]

My references to Pete Carril’s offense, along with Dean Smith’s offense were clearly both pre-shot clock. I also acknowledge Carril’s extensive influence on the coaching profession including on Geno. I watched Carril’s offense up close in college, prior to the shot clock. It was maddening to watch them run their sets over and over and over again, without putting up a shot.

As you point out, Carril’s smart, but undermanned teams could compete with anyone, including Georgetown. I watched that game, rooting for Princeton to pull off the unprecedented upset. As I recall the Tigers had a nice halftime lead and pretty much led the entire game until Georgetown basically overpowered them in the last 5 minutes.

I appreciate you making a response. Not so sure of your use of the adverb "clearly". Pardon a couple of analogies: if you're a poker player, I've discovered your "tell". References to the true innovators and geniuses of the game of basketball are in no way slights to what Geno has accomplished. If we draw a basketball evolutionary tree with the man himself as the trunk (Naismith), then Carill and Smith are certainly main branches. "Clearly" whatever the rules of the game are, these are two men who would be innovating and changing the game to adapt to the circumstances. Analogy #2: you and I are walking through an art gallery, I'm from DC, The National Gallery of Art. IMO you can't just run to the room with the Van Goghs without spending a half hour marveling at the Da Vinci (1400's) and maybe the Rembrandts (mid 1600's). Come on, we can walk and chew gum at the same time. BTW my computer password is "Guru of Go". Nobody likes fast break/pressing basketball more than me. Best college team ever- UNLV with Hunt, Anthony, Augmon, Gran Mama.

 

[boontonbomber]

My question is, after playing top tier hoops for the better part of a decade ( little less for some) shouldn’t they already know how to beat a press?
Where NOT to take the ball?
Where the open player is as a result of the direction of the incoming pressure?
Same with the inbound pass?
Isn’t it pretty much basketball 101?
Some wrinkles but not reinventing the wheel, no?

But somehow, even though teams practice plenty breaking presses, opponents still deploy it, and often with a lot of success. How come?