Biff
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Why did you make me read that?
A Thoughtful Defense of Shaughnessy's Position
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easttexastrash
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I am pretty certain that his opinion would be the same regardless of which university is the one dominating. He really should leave out UCONN's name and state that any sport that has a champion that beats its opponent so often and with such dominance is bad for the sport as a whole. I suspect that if Serena won every match 6-2, 6-0 that we would hear the same thing about women's tennis. And if that were the case I suspect that some people would quit watching due to the lack of suspense.
I do understand the point that he is trying to make but I think he is doing a really poor job of doing it as he is placing the blame on UCONN.
As far as being bad for the sport, look at the US Men's National Team. We sent our best out into the world and dominated and now the world is playing better ball. The same can be said for the US Women's National team making the world catch up in order to compete.
I do understand the point that he is trying to make but I think he is doing a really poor job of doing it as he is placing the blame on UCONN.
As far as being bad for the sport, look at the US Men's National Team. We sent our best out into the world and dominated and now the world is playing better ball. The same can be said for the US Women's National team making the world catch up in order to compete.
EricSD
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Amen John Wooden. To any of the people who think it would be good if UCONN lost the NC, I ask "why"? Ask yourself some questions.
If UCONN loses, is there anything positive for WCBB that comes out of it? Does the game become more popular? Do more people decide to tune in? Do more athletic departments start earmarking more $$ for WCBB? There are a hundred questions similar to that and all of them have the same answer - "NO".
The ONLY reason UCONN losing would be good for anything is it would be good for the fans who don't like UCONN. That is it. UCONN's success is great for the game, and it's been proven over and over and over. Viewership is up, interest in WCBB is up, publicity on ESPN is up, and anyone who actually wants to watch great technical basketball that is fluid and beautiful to watch needs to tune in.
And let me just say that any "fan" on here who thinks UCONN losing the NC would be good for the game is simply not a UCONN fan. To quote Jack...
RockyMTblue2
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"When Alexander saw the breadth of his domain, he wept for there were no more worlds to conquer."
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Shaughnessy says it all when he say 'I don't watch women's basketball. I know its great athletes and everything, but to my it isn't pleasing.' That's fine, but then Uconn isn't killing it for you, women playing basketball is killing it for you, regardless of skill level or the level of the competition. If Uconn had won that game 96 - 95 you still would have continued flipping channels until you found a real sport like a Texas Hold'em Tournament or WWA wrestling. So, go ahead and be honest with you fans and say - 'why do women play a sport in shorts and jerseys - it isn't pleasing on the eye, like those ones where they play in tiny bikinis or dang that one where they play football in underwear - now that is real 'competition' if you get my meaning! Wink wink!'
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UcMiami
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Probably not, but he did use the term 'Pleasing to my eye' which is a weird way to say i don't like a sport. I dislike men's college basketball, but I never say 'because it isn't pleasing to my eye' The choice of words is too close to the bozo who suggested the WNBA wear short shorts to increase viewership - and he is a professional writer, so he is used to 'choosing words'.
Sluconn Husky
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Let's be honest though, how many comments do we get around here from those watching non-UConn games about how ugly they are and that we are spoiled to be able to watch the Huskies? Not that the men's game is perfect, but the women's can be hard to watch if you aren't viewing some of the better teams. And even some of the better ones can play ugly at times. Now, this is a point in UConn's favor, but Shaugnessey doesn't want to watch their high-quality play if it destroys teams in the process.
All that said, I don't know why the tweet even had to be mentioned at the conference, but these days everyone has to get a response to someone else's opinion.
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Again it has nothing to do with UConn but the failure of the other programs to raise the level of their game.
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I actually have little problem with his comments..... focused on fact that people enjoy competition, and winning by 40 is not fulfilling for him....
That is OK.
And I subscribe to Geno's comment.... "then don't watch"
That is OK.
And I subscribe to Geno's comment.... "then don't watch"
HuskyNan
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An incorrect bozo that has failed to do any research for his article. Geno coached his son's AAU team for years so, yes, he has coached men. The guy needs to STFU before he spews any more ignorance. I'm temped to disable the URL to keep that nimrod from getting any more hits to his article.
CL82
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Look at you getting all spunky....
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Having lived in the Boston area for many years, Shaughnessy tends to write stories just to get personal press. He has written the same piece every year of so for over 10 years that I am aware of. Best to treat him like a crying baby-assuming nothing is actually wrong, leave him alone and eventually he quiets down.
Carnac
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I'm done with all of this Shaughnessy crap. As a UConn fan, I could not care less what he thinks about UConn, whether he watches any of their games or not, or what his opinion is on anything concerning the UConn women's basketball program. Who knows (or cares) if he watches or not? ESPN is the only entity that may care. UConn gets their money from the networks whether he watches or not.
He's an outsider. I wonder what makes Shaughnessy so vain, that he thinks anyone cares about him or any of his takes or opinions. You'd be hard presses to find one single UConn fan that cares what he thinks about UConn, or WCBB. UConn Nation likes the huskies. We back them 100%. We're very protective of our brand, and our girls.
We don't want, need or seek his approval to root for our players. We watch the entire game no matter what the score is, and WE enjoy it. At no time did I get bored during the Mississippi State game. I loved it. If UConn is blowing somebody out, I'm OK with that, especially this time of the season. If a team blew UConn out, nobody would feel sorry for them.
All of the UConn haters would trip over themselves coming out of the woodwork laughing and cheering while trying to get their jabs in because UConn lost a game (clowns).
I want my team to win. I've never gotten tired of seeing UConn win games. It doesn't get old to me. I really hope Shaughnessy takes Geno's response to heart, and runs with it:" DON'T WATCH"!!
We don't need you. You bring nothing of value to the program or its fans. UConn is not going to modify their style of play to suit you. In closing, I'm going to borrow a phrase used by Donald Trump on his recently canceled TV show. Shaughnessy....................................................YOU'RE FIRED!!!!!
He's an outsider. I wonder what makes Shaughnessy so vain, that he thinks anyone cares about him or any of his takes or opinions. You'd be hard presses to find one single UConn fan that cares what he thinks about UConn, or WCBB. UConn Nation likes the huskies. We back them 100%. We're very protective of our brand, and our girls.
We don't want, need or seek his approval to root for our players. We watch the entire game no matter what the score is, and WE enjoy it. At no time did I get bored during the Mississippi State game. I loved it. If UConn is blowing somebody out, I'm OK with that, especially this time of the season. If a team blew UConn out, nobody would feel sorry for them.
All of the UConn haters would trip over themselves coming out of the woodwork laughing and cheering while trying to get their jabs in because UConn lost a game (clowns).
I want my team to win. I've never gotten tired of seeing UConn win games. It doesn't get old to me. I really hope Shaughnessy takes Geno's response to heart, and runs with it:" DON'T WATCH"!!
We don't need you. You bring nothing of value to the program or its fans. UConn is not going to modify their style of play to suit you. In closing, I'm going to borrow a phrase used by Donald Trump on his recently canceled TV show. Shaughnessy....................................................YOU'RE FIRED!!!!!
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No - imo it wouldn't do a darn thing if UCONN lost this year. This isn't UCLA vs NC STATE - Bill Walton vs David Thompson. Or Mich State vs Indiana.
If UCONN were to lose vs any of these teams - it would just beat the drum of those that say - "They were never that good anyways."
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I am stunned you could possibly think UCONN losing to a tam like Oregon State that walks the ball up the court and plays slow down methodical basketball will attract today's fan. You think their is a National Consensus to want to play half-court basketball without ELECTRIC athletic athletes?
Your mentioning of Geno imo is way off-base. I don't believe he means "one-hit wonders" winning a title vs a team that is CHASING HISTORY. There is context imo what he said and not a broad overall statement which you are making it out to be.
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I don't agree. He supposed to be a PROFESSIONAL. How is what he tweeted professional? He doesn't even follow sport. From what I understand ratings are up when UCONN is on also. Regardless, suppose you think his opinion is wrong? It's okay for him to come out in a public forum and downplay the sport and everyone including media, fans and coaches are supposed to take it without a response?
If I wer somewhere in which someone bashed this sport - I would speak up and disagree. What's wrong with Doris Burke and many others speaking up against Dan?
On a "lighter note" but in terms of "nothingsville" You DO understand though - that you are also on a UCONN WOMEN"S BASKETBALL BOARD. And many of us (and you) are "fans" (abbreviation of "fanatics."). Not all fans are the same so not a bash on you or others who care les about the comment. But in ANY sport including one, when a public figure who doesn't even watch/like the sport we love not only trash it BUT TRASH our team (UCONN is killing the sport.), you CAN understand harsh reply from MANY UCONN's fan that disagree with him will look to post about the subject, right?
And Dan could have backed off - but he didn't. And others agree with him. So you don't understand why many are attacking him or them in a similar manner in which he attacked the sport/UCONN? Regardless of "it wasn't meant to attack UCONN" -- but "UCONN is killing the sport" -- is what it is. If he didn't mean it - apologize for the comment and walk away. If he doesn't then why not debate? Many of think he is WRONG that UONN is NOT killing the sport.
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Do you agree with him that UCONN is killing the sport? Did you think last year it was a foregone conclusion that UCONN would win vs ND? What happens if one were to disagree with his comment that UCONN is killing the sport? And secondly, many of us UCONN fans - have a very healthy respect fro ND. What happens if you disagree with him that UCONN does get threatened and very soon will be threatened again thus UCONN isn't killing the sport? Aren't these things I just mentioned pretty obvious that a 10 year old can figure out? Shouldn't he know better that UCONN does get threatened? Shouldn't he know better that UCONN is NOT killing the sport?
Sluconn Husky
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Lots of professional writers think along similar lines.
Why not? Had one reporter not brought it up to Geno at the press conference almost nobody would've ever found out about it.
He thinks a team--in this case UConn since they are the only ones doing it--winning so often and so easily hurts the sport. I don't think he has anything against the Huskies from a personal standpoint. This kind of thing comes up every now and then in sport. It happened in cycling when Lance Armstrong was winning the Tour de France year after year. Tons of people hated it, thought it wasn't worth watching the race because they felt assured of who would win and win handily every year. I get that "killing the sport" comes across as irritating hyperbole, but I still see where people like him are coming from. I used to have similar feelings when Tennessee was winning three straight and the favorite for a fourth. It gets tiring if you're not a fan of the team doing the winning.
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Boston is widely viewed as a 'pro sports city'. The college level scene, outside of the Beanpot Tournament, or the Head of the Charles, (which are strong local annual events) has always played 2nd string to the Big Four franchises. Maybe when Flutie was at BC they checked out college FB. The media paid some attention to Calhoun & UConn in the 90's, cuz, you know, New England, but I always got the sense Boston sportswriters had a somewhat disjointed relationship with the state of CT, I guess because a lot of the state's fans are seen as having a stronger allegiance to the NY pro teams. Boston never covered the Whalers, and then there was that feint by the Pats ownership about moving the team south....
At the same time, I always got a kick out of Boston sports fans ruthlessly mocking any local scribe known for their "beat sport" trying to join the bandwagon on any other local team happening to do well. Shaughnessy, for example, if and when he tried writing about anything other than the Sox (and particularly when he tried covering the Bruins) was told in no uncertain terms to "get lost and stick to what he knows", with a few "CHB's" thrown in for injury.
Dan isn't really interested in sports journalism anyway. He comes from that long tradition at the Globe of 'sports pundits' - guys who had some fair writing talent and could spin an entertaining & colorful narrative that tended toward "lore" as opposed to analysis - Leigh Montville on the Sox, Bud Collins on pro tennis, Bob Ryan on the Celtics, etc. Shaughnessy was entertaining on his home turf, the Red Sox, but his schtick wears thin and is overtly transparent when he wanders off the diamond. As someone noted on another thread, Dan must feel like a man lost at sea now that the Red Sox have climbed Everest (x3) and Boston has been Title Town, USA the past 15 years. Boston sports angst and the Curse of the Bambino are dead and buried forever. He's lost his mojo.
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1-- And lots of professional don't. You heard an analyst, Burke, ripping him. You heard Lawson and Lobo disagree with him. Their opinions count to, right? So why do you htinkit's nothing if so many disagree?
2-- I think your point about the reporter is irrrelevant. The fact is, it was brought up and people disagree with Dan's point, right? They have a right to disagree. Wy can't they express that right publicly in the same manner Dan expressed his right?
3-- IMO your missing the entre point. He doesn't follow wcbb. He ano cle "what is hrting the sport." But he did say UCONN IS. If I were to say "I don't eman to insult so-and-so, but then go ahead and insult him," I meant to insult him. If I'm not mistaken Dan is a HOF writer. He chsoe his words very direct "UCONN is killing the sport."
4-- And as a fans as what you have said vs Tennessee, are you trying to say as many people follow you that follow Dan? Dan has a bit of a following. Why are you bringing up what you said? What Dan says has the chance to be big news. You and I are much different, aren't we? A reporter isn;t going to report what you and I said "about the game" are to Geno during the NCAA Tourney, are they? So hwy are you comparing your comment vs his?
5-- What if there those that don't think UCONN is hurting game and think domination is fine. Why do you feel they shouldn't express that opinion once it got brought up by a National Sporstwriter?
And you have mentioned to me this wasn't much news before- yet you don't have a problem posting now about Armstrong. So you have an opinion. I disagree with it. Why is it so wrong to discuss this? You say "you see where people like him are coming from." I say from an experieccned writer to proclaim what is killing th sport from someoen who doesn't care one iota about wcbb is plain silly. IMO if LeBron James, Chris Paul Anthony Davis were ot have been same year in high school, chose a team and get guys like a style of a young Ginobili and a young Klay Thompson, and they ripped through mcbb, there may be some scuttle about it - but by-and large imo thisowuld be hailed great for mcbb.
I think the question of whether it would be good or bad for WCBB if UConn loses Sunday or Tuesday night might not be a simple "yes" or "no". I think the manner in which they lose - which they won't - would matter too. Say, for example, if UConn brings its B+ game (plays well, hard, maybe a slightly off shooting night, maybe foul trouble, etc...) and Oregon State or Syracuse/Washington brings their A+++ game and plays out of their minds. I think that could also be good for WCBB, i.e. to see a really good competitive game, really well played on both sides, close down to the finish.
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BRS24
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If DS is going to write about college sports, perhaps he should look into his backyard and write something about the BC football and MBB programs going winless in conference play this past season in the ACC. The "team (FB) of New England" certainly has made it's mark - NOT!
This thread only shows that Shaughnessy got what he wanted: he writes/says what he does in order to draw attention to himself. The number of positive things he's written over the past 30+ years could probably be counted on one hand.
The best way to handle Shaughnessy is to ignore him completely. Back when the Globe site was free, I got to the point where I refused to click on any article/column with his byline on it. Now that he's behind a pay wall, it's even easier to ignore him.
The best way to handle Shaughnessy is to ignore him completely. Back when the Globe site was free, I got to the point where I refused to click on any article/column with his byline on it. Now that he's behind a pay wall, it's even easier to ignore him.
BRS24
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Sluconn Husky
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Who said you weren't free to disagree? I simply think a mountain was made out of a molehill. The guy didn't say much of anything that hasn't been said many times before, and the reporter obviously wanted a reaction from Geno which he got, and the subsequent consternation followed. I linked to another Boston Globe writer's
piece the other day which was a hundred times more inflammatory than what Shaugnessey tweeted, but nobody got a reaction from Geno to it so it's a blip on the radar.
I think be both know his point is that UConn filleting teams and winning 116-117 is what he's concerned is "killing" the sport. Again, there are lots of people who agree that their dominance makes it boring and not worth watching. It's a point of view I'm not outraged by because I understand what he's getting at even if I don't agree with the premise.
Again, I never said people can't express their opinion. I'm saying the reaction and week-long drama doesn't fit the "crime."
I don't know what you are saying about my Armstrong comments. I was relaying a situation that was similar in type and reaction to the one UConn is involved in. My point is that when a team or individual dominates to the extent UConn has some people get sick of it, bored by it, and refuse to watch because they feel the outcome is all but determined. As for a powerhouse men's team, that scenario would be one team for a few years. If one school dominated over a 10-20 year period like UConn has there would be many complaints.
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I'll wait for one game at a time but regarding if Oregon wins, it stretches the imagination / the universal world of gravity that we believe we know, that the game will all of a sudden jump to being so much more popular.
Oregon State plays games primarily in the 60's. Why do you think that is? If they were an explosive offensive team, they would push pace much more. They are a good defensive team. They don't seem super-athletic. So the chance this is some super game where both teams play terrific is slim. If UCONN plays well (b+) game, the chance Oregon State can beat them -- they would have to play/be something they really haven't been all season. At least the other two teams - Cuse with deep bench and shoots many three's and with Wash maybe Plum can control pace and be prolific. Oregon State is solid -- very good ball club. They don't play a style that will "change the landscape" and attract a significant number of fans.
If they win, more that likely would have slowed down the pace and muddied up the game a bit. IMO that isn't "good for the game" without a super player. They have very good player's that can play super but not the type to be universal - and getting more to watch.
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1--- If you are okay with disagreeing then what's the problem you are having? Why exaggerate and call it "mountain out of mohill?" IMO people disagree with Dan and when they disagree - is that "Mountain of a Mohill?" He is defending his comments too. Geno for example said "don't watch." That is "a Mountain out of a Mohill?" People want to know how a HOF sportswriter could claim that he knows "what's good for the game" for a game that he readily admits he never watches. He has the forum to back up his comments and explain even though that UCONN's has higher ratings overall - he just says "I like close games." Do close games ensure a sport is vibrant? What does he say about those sports. There are many sports that games are close. Anyhow, if people disagree with Dan, how can they appease your view of not going too far? And when Dan replies back? Where is the lien between "being okay to argue" and "making a mountain out of mohill?"
2-- The link you provided - was that writer a HOF Sporstwriter too? Does he have the national following that Dan has? That's the same point I got back to you about before when you spoke of Tennesse. Nobody cares what you and I say. And weren't a few replies to your link; "Who is this guy?" I didn't know who he was. I googled him and read a bit that he got into an argument on the air with someone and walked off the set - I think live. Dan is a HOF writer. Shouldn't we expect more from him? So if we agree that should, then why again did you bring up this other guy that no one cares about? Your link might as well come from a blog that you or I wrote.
3-- ANd I'm sorry -- NO-- we BOTH don't KNOW. I think your opinion on this is wrong and I think you are exaggerating points and twisting Dan's points - why I don't know. It's okay your opinion your prerogative. When you and I argue always has been civil I hope it continues- but when you say "I think we both know" - I have to respond in kind. Hopeful this doesn't get contentious. I disagree with you a LOT but we always have been very, very civil.
Per below- Dan has specifally mentioned UCONN. He said UCONN is killing the sport. The link below he is singling out UCONN. No OTHER TEAM. Notre Dame has made how many successive final fours before this year? How many losses have they had other than to UCONN for the past 4 or 5 or 6 years etc? So when he says "I don't like to know who is going to win before the game starts," why is it Just UCONN then that he singles out? He said -- just said "Just give UCONN the trophy." If someone were to come on the board last year and tell YOU that UCONN has nothing to worry about vs ND in the finals, what would you say/think? And this is from a HOF sportswriter? This time of idiotic comment shouldn't be challenged from a guy that you'd think should know better? This isn't some newbie-hack from ESPN. Here is the link he continues to speak of UCONN and not other teams.
http://espn.go.com/womens-college-b...rs-no-apologies-connecticut-huskies-dominance
I am so surprised - you of all people question things from so many -- which is GREAT!!! Yet here we have a National Sportswriter admitting he doesn't watch the game (yet feel like he knows who is killing the sport- of which many doubt if it were close he still wouldn't give a dman.) and he is saying stupid things from the link above like --
"They sign up for the championship like you sign up for gym class," he said, smiling. "They just say 'OK, we're here this year. Hand over the trophy.'"
YOU thought the game between UCONN vs ND was pretty tough this year, right? And the ND game was close last year, right? Do you really think the stamen made above is coming from someone that knows what he is talking about pertaining to wcbb? He is the one that spoke of "the game" and what needs to be done.
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