A Question on Plum and Washington

[RockyMTblue2]

This is really for the PAC 12ers among us I suspect. When I first heard that Kelsey had scored 57 points against Utah to eclipse Jackie Stiles record it sorta shocked me. When I heard the rest of the team scored 27 it sorta shocked me too. When you have a singular talent on your team you certainly want to cultivate it and make it a centerpiece of your game. However, that score got me thinking about whether such talents can cut against you at crunch time if you have overemphasized the one talent within you offense. One game, one score, says nothing about this. I don't know the 4 year or even 1 year history of Washington in any depth and have no opinion, but would like to hear anyone who has a position.

I do recall that Geno said our Huskies had a tendency to stand around waiting for Maya to do IT. Probably the same for Diane's teams. Some say the Stanford loss had something of that involving Breanna.

Any thoughts?

 

[Mdoggie]

Senior night and a chance to break the record. Her team was looking for her and she responded. She is a prolific scorer and the night was right for 57.

 

[Frenchy]

If Morgan had stayed it would mos likely had happen with our team. Any decent team will shut down Plum, then what?

 

[Carnac]

If Morgan had stayed it would mos likely had happen with our team. Any decent team will shut down Plum, then what?

If you can shut down a team's best scorer, then yes, they can be beat. That's how we beat Ohio State (shut down Kelsey Mitchell, held her to 8 points), South Carolina's post players were held way below their season averages. Notre Dame's Breanna Turner was held scoreless in the first half of their championship game 2 years ago. Shut down a team's leading scorer (declaw the tiger) , and make another player beat you. A lot of teams don't have a player that can step up and replace the point production of the team's leader.

 

[JordyG]

The hard truth is Washington is a mediocre team propped up by a hugely talented Plum. Teams such as this rarely if ever advance to the finals in the Championship and most rarely win. In fact I can't remember when a team has won with one member having such a scoring load. As a team advances the better teams limit opposing players touches, have better perimeter or interior defenses, or develop more effective schemes against that player. Also teams such as Washington are just too dependent on the graces of Plum. One off night and their season is done. Plum's defense is suspect as well. Against the better teams what good is scoring 50 if your opponent scores 35-40?

 

[1-of-the-6]

You guys should stick to talking about the UCONN team, which is a topic that you actually have some knowledge about.

 

[EricLA]

You guys should stick to talking about the UCONN team, which is a topic that you actually have some knowledge about.

Seriously dumb post. If you have a different opinion, feel free to share it and educate us, instead of behaving foolishly on our board.

 

[chuck.r]

The hard truth is Washington is a mediocre team propped up by a hugely talented Plum. Teams such as this rarely if ever advance to the finals in the Championship and most rarely win. In fact I can't remember when a team has won with one member having such a scoring load. As a team advances the better teams limit opposing players touches, have better perimeter or interior defenses, or develop more effective schemes against that player. Also teams such as Washington are just too dependent on the graces of Plum. One off night and their season is done. Plum's defense is suspect as well. Against the better teams what good is scoring 50 if your opponent scores 35-40?

Except they were good enough last year, reaching the FF. I'd say that's better than mediocre. Your assessment is overly harsh and betrays an East Coast bias.

 

[JordyG]

You guys should stick to talking about the UCONN team, which is a topic that you actually have some knowledge about.

I don't know guy. I've been watching BB avidly for almost 60 years. I've played and been involved with coaching and with coaches. I've also watched Washington quite a few times this season and last. Actually maybe 10x. I'm no expert but I have an idea. I sure was right though last year when I said UConn would neutralize OSU pervasive and over used high post screen action and the game wouldn't be close. I sure was right when I said this year a good team like Stanford would make Plum work both ends of the floor, push her with pace in her defensive end and make her drive on offense. I also thought Plum should be pressed all night on the inbounds. Make her expend energy and she'll be gassed. Play her for the 3rd and 4th quarter. Much of the same for Osahor. Make her run the floor all night as well and make her drive off the high post. Tara was also way smarter than I when she brought in offside help when Osahor put the ball on the floor down low. Also Tara forced her to shoot inside at any angle but straight on. That way the defenders could apply more pressure on the shot, and their would always be a body on her.

 

[sarals24]

You guys should stick to talking about the UCONN team, which is a topic that you actually have some knowledge about.

Do enlighten us...

 

[JordyG]

Except they were good enough last year, reaching the FF. I'd say that's better than mediocre. Your assessment is overly harsh and betrays an East Coast bias.

I said rarely win a Championship. Some one dimensional teams have made the FF and E8. Few such teams win championships at ANY level in ANY sport. Perhaps you should re-read my post. I also last year said well before the Dance started that the Pac-12 was the best conference in WCBB. This year I see them just behind the ACC. Perhaps as a new poster here you should bother to investigate just before you make specious and uninformed allegations; and take off your west coast blinders.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

What disappoints me about a number of other boards is that they take Mr. Insult's advice and only talk their team/conference and mostly only on game day. Baylor is a sometimes exception. If you're a fan of the game, like @JordyG , then you follow it and want to talk about it.

 

[nwhoopfan]

As far as the 57 point game, it should be noted that Osahor scored 14 but barely played in the 2nd half due to foul trouble and fouled out either end of 3rd quarter or beginning of 4th quarter. The other Huskies just weren't hitting shots. Once Osahor was out, it was up to Plum to carry the team, and she did.

UW this year has been MUCH better than last year up to this point. They went on a magical run in the Tourney last year, one they aren't likely to repeat, but I strongly contest calling them mediocre. They finished tied for 2nd w/ Stanford in the conference, no small feat. They certainly miss a third dependable scorer that they had last year in Talia Walton, a versatile combo forward type. I would actually say she was the second best player last year behind Plum. Nobody has replaced her contributions per se. But last year they got almost NOTHING from players other than Plum, Walton and Osahor and they had literally no bench at all. This year they have more depth and more role players that are capable of scoring and contributing. In pretty much all of their losses those role players have not produced. UW is certainly at risk of being knocked out early if those role players are off, but they could definitely win 2 or 3 games in the Tourney this year. We'll see.

 

[oldude]

A couple points about Plum's 57 pt game. The game was relatively close. I believe the Huskies were only up 10 entering the 4th qtr. in addition, Oshahor fouled out.

As some have pointed out, Wash is not a balanced team with multiple scorers, particularly with Oshahor out.

 

[ocoandasoc]

Does any UConn fan fear ANY of the Pac 12 teams the way we might worry about another matchup with Baylor, South Carolina, Maryland, Florida State or Notre Dame? I don't think so.

Washington is a good team, with one great player, in a fairly good league. (What are the Pac 12's best OOC wins this year? Stanford over Texas and Washington over Mizzou. Pretty thin.)

Plum scores a LOT of points... but she takes a LOT of shots and plays a LOT of minutes, even against weak teams that Washington blows out. The Washington coaching staff has built their whole offense around her -- and I don't blame them. That doesn't make her less of a player... but it does pad her stats. Also, If Plum has an off night, ANY Top 25 teams can beat Washington. Not sure you can say that about the top scorer on any other Final Four contending team.

How the Pac 12 does in the NCAA Tourney will depend a LOT on what matchups they draw.

 

[chuck.r]

I said rarely win a Championship. Some one dimensional teams have made the FF and E8. Few such teams win championships at ANY level in ANY sport. Perhaps you should re-read my post. I also last year said well before the Dance started that the Pac-12 was the best conference in WCBB. This year I see them just behind the ACC. Perhaps as a new poster here you should bother to investigate just before you make specious and uninformed allegations; and take off your west coast blinders.

"The hard truth is Washington is a mediocre team propped up by a hugely talented Plum." - is a pretty harsh assessment of a program that has been impactful in its conference the last few years. Some would argue the teams Taurasi anchored in the post TASS years were not dis-similar. Would you have called those teams mediocre? And I have followed your posts on this board, sir. Most are critical and insightful, but you have also stated that what the PAC 12 did last year, getting 2 teams in the FF, was an "anomaly"; that the PAC12 teams usually perform below their seeds, except for Stanford. That sounds a little like a bias to me. I don't have "west coast blinders", I just happen to love competitive conference races that aren't dominated by one program year after year, as was once the case with the PAC12 and Stanford. I appreciate the balance in the better teams in that conference now and hope its a trend that stays. Happy to see Texas re-emerge in the Big 12, Miss St in the SEC, Duke and Fla St in the ACC. Its a lot more fun to follow WBB when there is such competitive balance. BTW - not a 'new poster', just an infrequent one.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Arizona St. and Colorado (bottom of the conference) both beat Kentucky.

 

[HuskyFan1125]

I watch a lot of PAC-12 hoops.

For me, PAC-12 is a tough conference. Anyone of the top 4-6 teams could actually win. They have been beating up on each other all year.

Is Washington good?? I say yes! With no hesitation. It's basically the same team as last year with a better bench and they added a good 3pt shooter (albeit she runs hot and cold) Natalie Romeo.

Regardless of anyone's opinion of Washington, Plum, or the Pac-12 keep this in mind. Plum is a senior. Playing the same conference teams, coaches, and players every year. And they have trouble slowing her down. She has embarrassed a lot of defensive players. Is she super athletic? No! What she is however is crafty! She can get her shot almost anywhere on the floor. She is averaging almost 5 assists per game so yes she like to pass and assist. She gets as much out of an assist as scoring a bucket. I've seen her drain 3's with 1-2 people in her face. Crafty!! That's what she is.

What does she have around her is a smart strong post player! Osahor is a rebounding beast and an excellent passer. A glue player--Collier who takes charges, rebounds and is a good screener. A shooter--Romeo and a fast freshman PG-McDonald.

Washington is a good team and I can easily see them heading back to the elite 8 depending on where they are seeded because they are crafty!!

Last year they made it to the FF! Can they repeat? Maybe? I think Plum will try her hardest to lead them as far as she can!

 

[jonson]

I don't know guy. I've been watching BB avidly for almost 60 years. I've played and been involved with coaching and with coaches. I've also watched Washington quite a few times this season and last. Actually maybe 10x. I'm no expert but I have an idea. I sure was right though last year when I said UConn would neutralize OSU pervasive and over used high post screen action and the game wouldn't be close. I sure was right when I said this year a good team like Stanford would make Plum work both ends of the floor, push her with pace in her defensive end and make her drive on offense. I also thought Plum should be pressed all night on the inbounds. Make her expend energy and she'll be gassed. Play her for the 3rd and 4th quarter. Much of the same for Osahor. Make her run the floor all night as well and make her drive off the high post. Tara was also way smarter than I when she brought in offside help when Osahor put the ball on the floor down low. Also Tara forced her to shoot inside at any angle but straight on. That way the defenders could apply more pressure on the shot, and their would always be a body on her.

Plum is obviously a great talent, as is (I think) Osahor, who is a very unique one as well. (And, since I live in Pac12 country, I've seen both for several years now.) Last year, Washington also had a very talented forward (Walton) who helped share the load. This year, they may be deeper, but lack anyone who has consistently performed at Walton's level. So, although they have always depended on Plum (too much, imo), they seem to do so quite a bit more this year than in previous ones. The problems that flow from the absence of a Walton and looking too much to Plum have been mitigated to some extent by Plum shooting a much higher percentage this year than in previous years, but she can still shoot them out of, as well as into, games, and she did just that in the loss to Oregon on Friday, in which she took some 32 shots to score about 38 points, and Oregon neutralized Osahor's scoring (but obviously not her rebounding) by putting a guard on her when when camped out at the three point line. Washington can, and likely will, be a problem for some NCAA teams, but I do not think UCONN will be one of them.

 

[JS]

You guys should stick to talking about the UCONN team, which is a topic that you actually have some knowledge about.

1. Don't tell others here what they should or should not talk about. Kindly let us mods decide when or if they go out of bounds.

2. Feel free to disagree with anything said here and back up your opinion. That's what a place like this is for. Biting around other people's ankles, not so much.

 

[oldude]

Does any UConn fan fear ANY of the Pac 12 teams the way we might worry about another matchup with Baylor, South Carolina, Maryland, Florida State or Notre Dame? I don't think so.

Washington is a good team, with one great player, in a fairly good league. (What are the Pac 12's best OOC wins this year? Stanford over Texas and Washington over Mizzou. Pretty thin.)

Plum scores a LOT of points... but she takes a LOT of shots and plays a LOT of minutes, even against weak teams that Washington blows out. The Washington coaching staff has built their whole offense around her -- and I don't blame them. That doesn't make her less of a player... but it does pad her stats. Also, If Plum has an off night, ANY Top 25 teams can beat Washington. Not sure you can say that about the top scorer on any other Final Four contending team.

How the Pac 12 does in the NCAA Tourney will depend a LOT on what matchups they draw.

UConn likely handles any Pac12 team. If there is any concern at all it would be with OSU & Stanford, two teams that are well coached and play hard for 40 minutes.

 

[HuskyFan1125]

UConn likely handles any Pac12 team. If there is any concern at all it would be with OSU & Stanford, two teams that are well coached and play hard for 40 minutes.

I would add UCLA! If the Bruins are hitting their shots they are dangerous.

 

[oldude]

I would add UCLA! If the Bruins are hitting their shots they are dangerous.

I don't disagree, but UCLA has been somewhat inconsistent this season. I don't think the Bruins could hold it together for 40 minutes against UConn's constant movement and switching defense.

 

[nwhoopfan]

UConn likely handles any team from any conference. Doesn't take away from any of the Pac 12 teams. This thread has morphed quickly.

 

[HuskyFan1125]

UConn likely handles any team from any conference. Doesn't take away from any of the Pac 12 teams. This thread has morphed quickly.

Yea.....I'm done