a new season & new eligibility issues fro St john's...

[alexd]

2 players' eligibility being looked at and Lavin may redshirt 2 others....

http://zagsblog.com/articles/st-johns-duo-awaiting-eligibility-rulings/

 

[tcf15]

Holy... 24 years old?

 

[upstater]

Still have a hard time believing Obepka went there.

 

[Ts5034]

What is up with all these players being ineligible? Is Lavin that careless going after shady kids or is something else going on?

 

[UConnSwag11]

didn't read it but whatever is going on the big east NEEDS a good to very good st johns team... especially the way everything is going, i want everything to work out

 

[MCNPA]

From what I heard there are no eligibility issues. These aren't shady kids, just foreign players that the NCAA is dragging its feet with. It doesn't concern academics, only which class Sanchez and Bourgault are in. NCAA determining if Sanchez is a junior or senior based on age and his years in DR. Bourgault is cleared academically but could be either a soph or junior depending if they credit him a medical redshirt year when he tore his ACL 2 years ago. This looks like its popping up now but SJU is just still waiting on NCAA for go-ahead.

Both players are good. I've heard Sanchez could be NBA good after this season and SJU will possibly lose him regardless. SJU also looking to possibly redshirt Achiuwa this year depending on if they determine Sanchez is a senior in order to balance out scholarships etc.

 

[mauconnfan]

It's awful strange to red shirt basically a 10 and 6 guy who was a nice player.........don't think "shady" is the right word but screwed up may be correct in the recruiting stuff at St Johns......

 

[MCNPA]

What is screwed up about it? All players ruled ineligible last year are currently playing except Pelle. All are in great shape. Garrett playing ball for SJU and has pro baseball contract. Both Sanchez and Bourgault don't have academic issues. SJU's basketball GPA is fine. Btw God's Gift is a 4.0 student and redshirting allows him to stay on scholarship and finish Masters degree. Gift is consummate student athlete and isn't rushing to leave school.

 

[mauconnfan]

What is screwed up about it? All players ruled ineligible last year are currently playing except Pelle. All are in great shape. Garrett playing ball for SJU and has pro baseball contract. Both Sanchez and Bourgault don't have academic issues. SJU's basketball GPA is fine. Btw God's Gift is a 4.0 student and redshirting allows him to stay on scholarship and finish Masters degree. Gift is consummate student athlete and isn't rushing to leave school.

C'mon they have accepted more questionable student athletes than anyone as of late.........I am happy for God's Gift and it is truly a great story, like him as a hard working player too.........that does not take away from the fact Lavin has created some smoke with his recruiting habits, none of it unethical that we can see mind you just whacked!!

 

[MCNPA]

C'mon they have accepted more questionable student athletes than anyone as of late.........I am happy for God's Gift and it is truly a great story, like him as a hard working player too.........that does not take away from the fact Lavin has created some smoke with his recruiting habits, none of it unethical that we can see mind you just whacked!!

It is pretty funny having a Uconn fan calling SJU student athletes questionable considering that Uconn is ineligible for post-season play due to poor academic record. SJU recruited some athletes that didn't make the grade, went back and earned their eligibility. All schools do this when tryin to recruit elite athletes. SJU was competing with top progrms for all these athletes. Not sure where your gripe is. Seems like pot calling kettle black.

 

[Waquoit]

It is pretty funny having a Uconn fan calling SJU student athletes questionable considering that Uconn is ineligible for post-season play due to poor academic record.

That didn't take long, SJU troll. Fail.

 

[MCNPA]

That didn't take long, SJU troll. Fail.

I just responded to silly criticism of SJU's student-athletes considering the circumstances. What's wrong with that?

 

[upstater]

I just responded to silly criticism of SJU's student-athletes considering the circumstances. What's wrong with that?

Probably because the APR has been discussed to death here. If you know anything about the APR, it's not a matter of poor academic record. It's a matter of students leaving without enough bogus credits. This is why Kentucky has a great APR (and the sad truth is that UConn moved to Kentucky's methods 3 years ago and now has very high APR). It has been discussed ad nauseam. To give you one example, we had a player go 3 1/2 years and was 4 courses from earning his degree, before he left to go play pro ball overseas. He dinged UConn's APR badly, a double donut (loss for retention, loss for good standing). Yet the one and done who completes a few summer + fall semester + winter intersession courses at Kentucky gives their APR full credit. Compare the two: 1 semester completed vs. 3 1/2 (intersession courses vs. core courses toward a degree).

 

[MCNPA]

Probably because the APR has been discussed to death here. If you know anything about the APR, it's not a matter of poor academic record. It's a matter of students leaving without enough bogus credits. This is why Kentucky has a great APR (and the sad truth is that UConn moved to Kentucky's methods 3 years ago and now has very high APR). It has been discussed ad nauseam. To give you one example, we had a player go 3 1/2 years and was 4 courses from earning his degree, before he left to go play pro ball overseas. He dinged UConn's APR badly, a double donut (loss for retention, loss for good standing). Yet the one and done who completes a few summer + fall semester + winter intersession courses at Kentucky gives their APR full credit. Compare the two: 1 semester completed vs. 3 1/2 (intersession courses vs. core courses toward a degree).

Bottom line is at it comes down to graduating players, not whether Jakarr Sampson took an extra year at Brewster or Amir Garrett needed an extra 1 course and joined second semester. SJU basketball graduating 86%. I think that is what counts. I think criticism of SJU taking recruits with questionable academic records is unfounded in this case. All those athletes have since finished what they needed to and SJU athletes graduate.

Don't get mad at me for defending my team though. As I said, both Sanchez and Bourgault look to be qualified but it is more a question of their classification. Will find out soon.

 

[upstater]

Bottom line is at it comes down to graduating players, not whether Jakarr Sampson took an extra year at Brewster or Amir Garrett needed an extra 1 course and joined second semester. SJU basketball graduating 86%. I think that is what counts. I think criticism of SJU taking recruits with questionable academic records is unfounded in this case. All those athletes have since finished what they needed to and SJU athletes graduate.

Don't get mad at me for defending my team though. As I said, both Sanchez and Bourgault look to be qualified but it is more a question of their classification. Will find out soon.

First, I'm not mad at you. But secondly, graduation has absolutely nothing to do with APR. UConn was dinged for APR. Graduation is not a factor in that.

Thirdly, St. John's GSR is indeed 86%, but in reality it graduated 36% of its players. You can see by the difference between the two figures that GSR measures something other than graduation, since it exempts players who transfer or leave early for the pros while in good standing. It's a stretch to understand how it relates to graduation at all. USF, for instance, has an even higher GSR than St. John's. It's 88%. And yet USF has a 0% graduation rate. They've graduated no one.

 

[MCNPA]

First, I'm not mad at you. But secondly, graduation has absolutely nothing to do with APR. UConn was dinged for APR. Graduation is not a factor in that.

Thirdly, St. John's GSR is indeed 86%, but in reality it graduated 36% of its players. You can see by the difference between the two figures that GSR measures something other than graduation, since it exempts players who transfer or leave early for the pros while in good standing. It's a stretch to understand how it relates to graduation at all. USF, for instance, has an even higher GSR than St. John's. It's 88%. And yet USF has a 0% graduation rate. They've graduated no one.

I never mentioned APR. If you're talking measurables though, SJU is fulfilling requirements. My point of contention was the criticism of SJU recruits academic record coming from a fan of a school that is not meeting the requirements with respect to the measurables in college ball. I was just surprised that somebody here was criticizing SJU and our student athletes considering the predicament Uconn is in, that's all.

I still belief that schools that recruit high level bball players will continue to take some risks recruiting top notch players that are borderline academically. Reason being that lots of the top players have neglected their academics a bit more.

I have zero problem with Lavin taking some chances as long as SJU continues to meet requirements. I'd much rather land kids like Jakarr Sampson who take a little longer to get here than the level of player that our prior coaches were landing. Lavin had a tall task trying to replace 13 ships in one season. He certainly took some risks because he wants to fill the roster with legit talent, not Maac level talent like we had for many years before.

Funny part about it is that I heard one of our best players is Lavin's last signing, a kid named Christian Jones out of IMG who nobody was interested in and was unranked.

 

[upstater]

I never mentioned APR. If you're talking measurables though, SJU is fulfilling requirements. My point of contention was the criticism of SJU recruits academic record coming from a fan of a school that is not meeting the requirements with respect to the measurables in college ball. I was just surprised that somebody here was criticizing SJU and our student athletes considering the predicament Uconn is in, that's all.

You mentioned UConn's penalties for this year. Those are APR related.

 

[mauconnfan]

I never mentioned APR. If you're talking measurables though, SJU is fulfilling requirements. My point of contention was the criticism of SJU recruits academic record coming from a fan of a school that is not meeting the requirements with respect to the measurables in college ball. I was just surprised that somebody here was criticizing SJU and our student athletes considering the predicament Uconn is in, that's all.

I still belief that schools that recruit high level bball players will continue to take some risks recruiting top notch players that are borderline academically. Reason being that lots of the top players have neglected their academics a bit more.

I have zero problem with Lavin taking some chances as long as SJU continues to meet requirements. I'd much rather land kids like Jakarr Sampson who take a little longer to get here than the level of player that our prior coaches were landing. Lavin had a tall task trying to replace 13 ships in one season. He certainly took some risks because he wants to fill the roster with legit talent, not Maac level talent like we had for many years before.

Funny part about it is that I heard one of our best players is Lavin's last signing, a kid named Christian Jones out of IMG who nobody was interested in and was unranked.

Actually well stated MCNPA but no matter how you look at it there were a lot of chances taken...............that was my point and it looks whacked with this one being looked at, this one sitting out, this one not showing up over the last couple years doesn't it? Pretty simple

 

[caw]

I never mentioned APR. If you're talking measurables though, SJU is fulfilling requirements. My point of contention was the criticism of SJU recruits academic record coming from a fan of a school that is not meeting the requirements with respect to the measurables in college ball. I was just surprised that somebody here was criticizing SJU and our student athletes considering the predicament Uconn is in, that's all.

I still belief that schools that recruit high level bball players will continue to take some risks recruiting top notch players that are borderline academically. Reason being that lots of the top players have neglected their academics a bit more.

I have zero problem with Lavin taking some chances as long as SJU continues to meet requirements. I'd much rather land kids like Jakarr Sampson who take a little longer to get here than the level of player that our prior coaches were landing. Lavin had a tall task trying to replace 13 ships in one season. He certainly took some risks because he wants to fill the roster with legit talent, not Maac level talent like we had for many years before.

Funny part about it is that I heard one of our best players is Lavin's last signing, a kid named Christian Jones out of IMG who nobody was interested in and was unranked.

Just stop digging a hole with regards to APR/GSR. Neither metric is a good metric at all. Further, UConn's APR since Lavin was hired by SJU is quite good.

I do agree that the comment on SJU recruiting is unwarranted. Most of the kids are not problematic.

I do find it odd that God's Gift would redshirt, but that has nothing to do with academics. He should be a beast, reminds me of old Pitt players who were 3-4 years older than anyone else in the BE.

 

[MCNPA]

Actually well stated MCNPA but no matter how you look at it there were a lot of chances taken...............that was my point and it looks whacked with this one being looked at, this one sitting out, this one not showing up over the last couple years doesn't it? Pretty simple

Lavin had two choices. Fill 13 ships with solid students and marginal ballers, or high level athletes who had some question marks. Most of the question marks worked out. You forget that this is only Lavin's 3rd season at SJU and he has filled the roster with high level talent, most of which worked out. You'll see how talented they are. The roster is nothing like the pre-Lavin years and I'm happy for that. I want SJU to be a competitor and not a has-been. I'm happy Lavin wants to compete and is landing high level kids.

I think that the Sanchez and Bourgault stuff will be straightened out real soon. Its just waiting on the NCAA.

 

[MCNPA]

Just stop digging a hole with regards to APR/GSR. Neither metric is a good metric at all. Further, UConn's APR since Lavin was hired by SJU is quite good.

I do agree that the comment on SJU recruiting is unwarranted. Most of the kids are not problematic.

I do find it odd that God's Gift would redshirt, but that has nothing to do with academics. He should be a beast, reminds me of old Pitt players who were 3-4 years older than anyone else in the BE.

I was perplexed by the Gift redshirt thing too. I guess the staff has an idea of what they want to do. SJU has quite a few solid frontcourt players this season. Even if Gift is back, Obekpa looks to be starting center. Obekpa is an amazing shotblocker and looks excellent early on, especially defensively. My guess is that since Gift is continuing his studies and we have a deep roster, that Lavin thought having Gift around next year might better balance out ships should Sanchez be deemed a senior and/or go pro after this season.

Believe it or not, Sampson, Obekpa, Sanchez and Christian Jones look to be top 4 at the 4-5 spots. Staff expects to lose Sanchez to NBA after this season and maybe even Jakarr if he continues to improve. Instead of Gift being outside the main 10-man rotation, he would look to earn more time when Sanchez moves on. It was the emergence of Christian Jones that created this issue. Jones has surprised everyone.