A&M move to SEC held up by legal threat... | The Boneyard

A&M move to SEC held up by legal threat...

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EricLA

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A&M move to SEC...

i thought the article was somewhat interesting. Apparently at least 1 Big 12 institution withdrew it's previous consent for A&M to leave. my guess would be Baylor...
 
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It was Baylor. If the Big 12 falls apart, Baylor is the least likely team to find a new major conference home. I wonder how it will play out if Oklahoma and Oklahoma State go to the PAC 12.
 

alexrgct

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Baylor had powerful friends in Texas politics, especially Ann Richards, at the time the Big XII was being formed. They're scared s***-less right now, and they should ne. They are one of several schools that brings little to the table and benefits way more than they deserve to from being in a power conference. In the Big XII, Baylor, Kansas State, and Iowa State are especially useless. Despite the prowess in MBB, Kansas isn't much better.
 

EricLA

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Baylor had powerful friends in Texas politics, especially Ann Richards, at the time the Big XII was being formed. They're scared s***-less right now, and they should ne. They are one of several schools that brings little to the table and benefits way more than they deserve to from being in a power conference. In the Big XII, Baylor, Kansas State, and Iowa State are especially useless. Despite the prowess in MBB, Kansas isn't much better.
I did not know Kansas brought so little to the table. i sort of thought they were a bit like Nebraska - a school out in the middle of farmland USA. i'm not sureu why Nebraska has had so much more football success...
 

Vowelguy

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I did not know Kansas brought so little to the table. i sort of thought they were a bit like Nebraska - a school out in the middle of farmland USA. i'm not sureu why Nebraska has had so much more football success...

Given my background I tend to think about it in economic terms -- firms/industries are successful when they're located near natural resources or have new/advanced technologies.

Nebraska had both. The resources were the big farm boys, which thus influenced their running a very power/run offense. (NE is slightly more of a farm state than KS.)

The technology was the coaching. NE benefited from Tom Osbourne.

A similar story could be told for TN & WCBB I believe.
 

EricLA

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Given my background I tend to think about it in economic terms -- firms/industries are successful when they're located near natural resources or have new/advanced technologies.

Nebraska had both. The resources were the big farm boys, which thus influenced their running a very power/run offense. (NE is slightly more of a farm state than KS.)

The technology was the coaching. NE benefited from Tom Osbourne.

A similar story could be told for TN & WCBB I believe.
but if that's true and it was "just" the coach at the time, then i'd think the value of Nebraska football would be seriously diluted by this time. i'm not disagreeing, just surprised.
 

Vowelguy

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but if that's true and it was "just" the coach at the time, then i'd think the value of Nebraska football would be seriously diluted by this time. i'm not disagreeing, just surprised.

First, there's a certain amount of inertia. Once you establish a tradition you can remain strong through reputation and recruiting. Also success breeds fans, dollars, facilities, etc, which also propels things forward.

Second, have you seen NE in the past decade? They fell pretty far. During Osbourne's 25 years, their worst record was 9-3. From 2002-07 they were 7-7, 10-3, 5-6, 8-5, 9-4, 5-7, missing 2 bowl games. The last time they missed a bowl game was 1968.

It was only on their 3rd successor to Osborne that they started to turn things around, but they still have yet to return to being the cream of the crop.
 

EricLA

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First, there's a certain amount of inertia. Once you establish a tradition you can remain strong through reputation and recruiting. Also success breeds fans, dollars, facilities, etc, which also propels things forward.

Second, have you seen NE in the past decade? They fell pretty far. During Osbourne's 25 years, their worst record was 9-3. From 2002-07 they were 7-7, 10-3, 5-6, 8-5, 9-4, 5-7, missing 2 bowl games. The last time they missed a bowl game was 1968.

It was only on their 3rd successor to Osborne that they started to turn things around, but they still have yet to return to being the cream of the crop.
well that i agree with which is why i was surprised that Nebraska is considered a much better program to get into a conference than Kansas..
 

Vowelguy

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well that i agree with which is why i was surprised that Nebraska is considered a much better program to get into a conference than Kansas..

As I said inertia. They've still got the fan base (generally regarded as one of the best in CFB) and national reputation.
 

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Baylor had powerful friends in Texas politics, especially Ann Richards, at the time the Big XII was being formed. They're scared s***-less right now, and they should ne. They are one of several schools that brings little to the table and benefits way more than they deserve to from being in a power conference. In the Big XII, Baylor, Kansas State, and Iowa State are especially useless. Despite the prowess in MBB, Kansas isn't much better.

Those three PLUS Missouri have been on my mind as not having much "up" side. But then again, all of the Big 6 have some "wimps". By that, I mean revenue generators, since it IS all about money: ACC: Wake, BC (and they recruited them), NC State SEC: Ole Miss, Vandy, MS State PAC 12: WSU, UW, AZ, CO, Utah (and they recruited the last 2) Big 12 (?) KU, KSU, ISU, Mizzou Big10: Northwestern, Minn, Ill, Ind. Big EAST?: VERY different situation here since there is no traditional FB or big revenue school here at all. Lots of great MBB and WBB though. If I had to say, I'd go with Providence, 'Nova, Cincy.

This whole thing is gonna be a big ole mess before it's all over. And there will be winners and there will be big losers.
 

alexrgct

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Mizzou doesn't bring a ton to the table in terms of fielding consistently strong teams, but Missouri as a state is populous enough that Mizzou will find a home on the strength of the TV sets it brings with it.
 

tigger

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Excellent point---TV sets generate revenue...

Mizzou doesn't bring a ton to the table in terms of fielding consistently strong teams, but Missouri as a state is populous enough that Mizzou will find a home on the strength of the TV sets it brings with it.
 

alexrgct

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In the category of "I can't say I disagree, but it's remarkably easy for them to say," here's what Baylor sent to its alumni base:

Since the news of a possible Texas-A&M-to-the-SEC move broke about a month ago, Baylor officials have been consistent in their stance and message, emphasizing the importance of not throwing away successful, historic rivalries for the sake of bigger TV contracts.

Recently, it has looked as if college athletics was about to turn into a free-for-all, with conferences raiding one another just to avoid being raided themselves. Lost in the midst of this mad scramble for the next lucrative TV contract is any sense of what's best for the universities involved. Absent from the discussion is any consideration of the welfare of the student-athletes, the best interests of the fans (who watch historic rivalries go by the wayside), the effect on the home states involved (which have much to lose in the shuffle), and the impact such hysteria can have on the very essence of the collegiate football experience.

At the moment, the carousel's turning has at least slowed as regards the Big 12. Currently, SEC leaders are awaiting written assurances from each Big 12 school that they will agree to waive their institutional rights regarding future conference expansion and any negative impact that might have on member institutions. In a statement issued earlier today, Big 12 Commissioner Dan Beebe made it clear that each of the schools in the Big 12 retains its individual rights. He further noted that significant changes to the Big 12 membership could negatively affect Big 12 institutions that were counting on revenue streams from contracts that were previously approved unanimously by Big 12 members, including Texas A&M. I have yet to hear of any Big 12 institution that has signed such a waiver.

As always, Baylor officials are working hard with the university's best interests in mind. It's important that Baylor remain on the national stage, so that people nationwide get to learn about BU and all that it has to offer -- as they did with the big win over TCU Friday, and the men's basketball team's Elite Eight run, and the women's basketball national championship, and ... well, you get the idea.

But there's something bigger than just Baylor's interests at stake here. This is about doing the right thing. There are real costs when universities begin to break commitments and contracts (beyond simply setting a bad example for the young minds on campus) -- up to and including anarchy in the world of college athletics.

Baylor is standing up for itself and for the integrity of college athletics, and people are starting to take notice. The Sporting News called Baylor "the closest thing to a hero at this point," adding that BU "is fighting to keep alive a workable business that has value to literally millions of people." CBS Sports applauded Baylor for speaking out. CNN has picked up the story. A Yahoo! Sports headline today reads "College sports realignment capers a study in greed."

In short, Baylor is standing up for our university, but also for something bigger. Our leaders have stepped into a space that few would have the courage to enter, but one that is gaining traction. Of that, we can all be proud.
 

Icebear

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Baylor's point is very reasonable, but unlikely to win.
 

tigger

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Baylor's viewpoint is, quite frankly, naive in the 21st Century. Also, if you read between the lines, they are also making it VERY clear that Baylor would suffer financially.

I'm also a bit confused about the "historic rivalries" from the BU standpoint. I admit to not following the Big 12 closely, but do they have any of those--really? That must have been part of the statement in which they assert that they are speaking for others.

Speaking of which, there is a reference to a negative impact "on states". Give everybody a break. Like the state of Texas is going to be hurt by A&M changing conferences. It only helps the state to have the presence of a major conference other than the Big 12? (10,9?).

And I love the part about people starting to take notice. Well, of course they are. And all those media know that MOST college sports fans are going, huh? What's up with that? So the best way that they could "make" a story out of it was to create conflict. Otherwise, the whole story would be simple. Baylor is selfishly watching out only for Baylor and delaying the inevitable.

They should be doing like EVERYONE who might be affected by this or any other move from last year, next year, or even the next. They should be making plans or at least looking into plans. Oklahoma is even talking to other people, for Lord's sake!! Is Baylor gonna do the same thing to them and OK State? Is Baylor, in the name of being the conscience of the entire collegiate athletic community going to maintain this stance, solely in order to keep the Big 12? in place.

It is a Baptist university and they can and will use their character and piety as the cornerstone upon which they have built this philosophy.

But I maintain that at the end of it all, Baylor has the same motivations as everybody else---money.
 

EricLA

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Baylor can whine and cry all they want. IMHO they are just shooting themselves in the foot - who's going to want them as the conferences continue to split and merge? "oh sure, let's add Baylor, but god forbid down the road something needs to change - they might sue us to try to stop it". very short sighted IMHO as they won't be able to stop it...
 

Vowelguy

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here's what Baylor sent to its alumni base:

Since the news of a possible Texas-A&M-to-the-SEC move broke about a month ago, Baylor officials have been consistent in their stance and message, emphasizing the importance of not throwing away successful, historic rivalries for the sake of bigger TV contracts.

That's hysterical given Baylor was part of the demise of the Southwest Conference.
 

tigger

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That's hysterical given Baylor was part of the demise of the Southwest Conference.

I also don't recall their doing anything of this sort to Arkansas, and they went to the...(God forbid) SEC.
Wake up Baylor. Bears and high horses don't play well together.

And I gotta say it again---the whole "historic rivalries" :rolleyes: thing has me falling off my chair in hilarity everytime I see it. :D
 

Vowelguy

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The historical thing Baylor cares about is its history in a BCS conference. If a plan arose to steal Big East teams to the Big XII [fat chance], I can assure you that Baylor wouldn't give a damn about any rivalries it was breaking up.
 
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Self serving statement disguised by sanctimonious Krap. Where is their moral outrage at Texas's actions. They were are the cause of the breakup. But I suppose with as little as they have to offer athletically other than WCBB the best they can hope for is to remain as Texas's loyal and abused lap dog.
 

tigger

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The historical thing Baylor cares about is its history in a BCS conference. If a plan arose to steal Big East teams to the Big XII [fat chance], I can assure you that Baylor wouldn't give a damn about any rivalries it was breaking up.

And wouldn't there now be a huge impact on the state of Texas because of the loss of TCU to the Big East (also a BCS Conference), according to their logic?
 

EricLA

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And wouldn't there now be a huge impact on the state of Texas because of the loss of TCU to the Big East (also a BCS Conference), according to their logic?
true baylor has no say in what TCU does.
 
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Baylor's point is very reasonable, but unlikely to win.
They are going to lose this sooner or later. While their position is admirable, there is no stopping the superconference train. It's inevitable that within ten years those super conferences will break away from the NCAA and then it's really gonna get ugly. Money is the driver here and as long as hundres of thousands of otherwise reasonable adults keep painting their skin, dressing in hideous outfits and driving a hundred miles every Saturday to watch football it's not going to change.

And BTW does everyone remember how Baylor got into the Big 12 in the first place? They will be without a conference when all the dust settles so they have other less noble motivation here.
 

Icebear

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They are going to lose this sooner or later. While their position is admirable, there is no stopping the superconference train. It's inevitable that within ten years those super conferences will break away from the NCAA and then it's really gonna get ugly. Money is the driver here and as long as hundres of thousands of otherwise reasonable adults keep painting their skin, dressing in hideous outfits and driving a hundred miles every Saturday to watch football it's not going to change.

And BTW does everyone remember how Baylor got into the Big 12 in the first place? They will be without a conference when all the dust settles so they have other less noble motivation here.
Exactly. Although I wouldn't say that fighting for the school's financial health is not an ignoble endeavor. It is simply a bias.
 
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