A look back: Kemba robbed of Big East POY and NCAA POY | The Boneyard

A look back: Kemba robbed of Big East POY and NCAA POY

Kenny11

Kenny11

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I wasn't on the BY back then so I don't know what the discussions were like. But obviously this was bullcrap.

Kemba lost out to Ben freaking Hansbrough and Jimmer freaking Fredette.

Excuse me as I reach deep into my pocket and pull out the RACE CARD.

Those awards going to white kids that were good (in Jimmer's case very good) college players are examples of racial bias. This is more understandable by the media voters and less understandable by the Big East Coaches.

Was the logic, well this white kid historically doesn't stand as great of a chance in the NBA so lets shower him with awards now?

Is the white boy dropping 30 a game a better story than what Kemba did in the big east tournament?

If Kemba and Jimmer were neck and neck, why wasn't Kemba's defense taken into account? Even in college Jimmer was a bad defensive player (which is half of the game).

It isn't like Kemba was considered a sure thing in the NBA. He was small and his court vision, finishing ability, and jumper were all question marks. Jimmer was even drafted in the lottery.

And at least Jimmer had good stats. Ben HandsomeBro averaged 18 a game. Cool. Now go sit your ass on the second team all big east....oh wait, he had more first team votes than Kemba somehow!

Not Sorry for the rant. Peace and love. Black Guards Matter
 
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Before this probably gets deleted...

Hansbrough actually had a decent argument for winning BE POY over Walker. He was the best player on a Notre Dame team that finished 2nd in the Big East with a 14-4 record. Kemba Walker was the best player on a UConn team that finished 9th with a 9-9 record. Looking at just conference games, which I imagine is the basis for determining conference player of the year, Hansbrough was a better offensive player than Kemba too - higher FG% (50.9 to 39.5), higher 3PFG% (43.0 to 33.0), higher TS% (65.9 to 50.0) and higher PER (29.0 to 25.2).

Also, it probably didn't help that Notre Dame went 2-0 against UConn during regular season too, or that while UConn went 4-7 over the 11 games, Notre Dame went 10-1.
 
tcf15 said:
Before this probably gets deleted...

Hansbrough actually had a decent argument for winning BE POY over Walker. He was the best player on a Notre Dame team that finished 2nd in the Big East with a 14-4 record. Kemba Walker was the best player on a UConn team that finished 9th with a 9-9 record. Looking at just conference games, which I imagine is the basis for determining conference player of the year, Hansbrough was a better offensive player than Kemba too - higher FG% (50.9 to 39.5), higher 3PFG% (43.0 to 33.0), higher TS% (65.9 to 50.0) and higher PER (29.0 to 25.2).

Also, it probably didn't help that Notre Dame went 2-0 against UConn during regular season too, or that while UConn went 4-7 over the 11 games, Notre Dame went 10-1.
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I agree that your defense of HansBro should be deleted.
 
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Kenny11 said:
I wasn't on the BY back then so I don't know what the discussions were like. But obviously this was bullcrap.

Kemba lost out to Ben freaking Hansbrough and Jimmer freaking Fredette.

Excuse me as I reach deep into my pocket and pull out the RACE CARD.

Those awards going to white kids that were good (in Jimmer's case very good) college players are examples of racial bias. This is more understandable by the media voters and less understandable by the Big East Coaches.

Was the logic, well this white kid historically doesn't stand as great of a chance in the NBA so lets shower him with awards now?

Is the white boy dropping 30 a game a better story than what Kemba did in the big east tournament?

If Kemba and Jimmer were neck and neck, why wasn't Kemba's defense taken into account? Even in college Jimmer was a bad defensive player (which is half of the game).

It isn't like Kemba was considered a sure thing in the NBA. He was small and his court vision, finishing ability, and jumper were all question marks. Jimmer was even drafted in the lottery.

And at least Jimmer had good stats. Ben HandsomeBro averaged 18 a game. Cool. Now go sit your ass on the second team all big east....oh wait, he had more first team votes than Kemba somehow!

Not Sorry for the rant. Peace and love. Black Guards Matter
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Kenny - I made a very similar rent back about a year and a half ago. In fact, I even went so far as to say that I believe race played a significant role in Jimmer getting player of the year. At the time I did not even mention your excellent point about Ben Hansbrough vs. Kemba. Hansbrough couldn't hold Kemba's jock as an all-around player. Not then, and obviously not now.

Interestingly I got some push back from other boneyarders at the time who swore that Jimmer deserved the award at least as much as Kemba for his regular season (The Wooden award and others are regular season-only awards, after all), and went so far as to say that Jimmer's defense wasn't as bad as we all thought, even though it was well known that BYU played specific defensive schemes to hide is obvious shortcomings on that side of the court. And - the cavernous difference between the two on that side of the court should have shored up the award for Kemba... but of course the biased jerks on ESPN would never, ever discuss that when they would do their fan-boy rants about Jimmer's worthiness as the best player in college basketball that year. Typical ESPN crap.

And FYI, I am a middle-aged white guy, but could still see the truth for what it was. Kemba got screwed that year, and at least part of the reason was he is black and Jimmer is white... but thankfully he also got his revenge while proving his greatness when it mattered the most! :cool:

I (and everyone else on here, frankly) will forever love Kemba Walker for what he did for us that year, and of course the 11 post-season games that rank him with the best post season performances ever seen in college basketball. Period, end of story!
 
I guess everyone is ok with it just as the voters were. Would you still be ok with it if the winners were Corey Fisher and JuJuan Johnson? They had nice years too.
 
Kenny11 said:
I guess everyone is ok with it just as the voters were. Would you still be ok with it if the winners were Corey Fisher and JuJuan Johnson? They had nice years too.
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No, I wasn't okay with it at the time. But I am happier with the hardware we got, and I suspect Kemba is, too.
 
Everybody at the time knew Kemba had the higher ceiling, and nobody wanted to trade Kemba for Jimmer or Hansbrough. At the same time, people recognized that voting for those awards is finished before Kemba's 11 game superhero winning streak to end the season, and the guys who won had superior stats at end of regular season. Recognize these awards for what they are -- the voters can't get beyond the stats because that's all they have time for. And at the time of the voting, Kemba didn't have "Most Valuable Stats".
 
8893 said:
No one remembers BE POY or NCAA POY.

Everyone remembers National Champions, especially one that began its run with a hi5toric streak through the BET.
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I'll add no one (I'll bet even Kemba) get bummed later in life at missing out on the POY. They get over it, especially the NBA'ers. But losing the Championship Game is never forgotten. Its the eternal 'what if' dilemma.
 
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The boneyard is mostly color blind. We saw it as anti-UConn bias in the big east, and pro "media darling" bullsplit in the NCAA. Also, those awards are voted on prior to the tourney when Kemba's star really rose nationally.
Meanwhile, Kemba's making a handsome salary as one of the better NBA point guards and the face of the Hornets, while Fredette's playing in China and Hansboro, having bounced around Europe and the developmental league, did once have a tiny sip of NBA coffee before becoming an Assistant at Western Kentucky, getting arrested for DUI and resigning the next day, a couple months ago.
As a UConn fan, I believe I was more upset when Jameer Nelson won 5 of the 6 POY awards in 2004 and tied with Emeka for the other one.
And when Joe Smith and Ed O'Bannon beat out Ray in 95.
 
tcf15 said:
Before this probably gets deleted...

Hansbrough actually had a decent argument for winning BE POY over Walker. He was the best player on a Notre Dame team that finished 2nd in the Big East with a 14-4 record. Kemba Walker was the best player on a UConn team that finished 9th with a 9-9 record. Looking at just conference games, which I imagine is the basis for determining conference player of the year, Hansbrough was a better offensive player than Kemba too - higher FG% (50.9 to 39.5), higher 3PFG% (43.0 to 33.0), higher TS% (65.9 to 50.0) and higher PER (29.0 to 25.2).

Also, it probably didn't help that Notre Dame went 2-0 against UConn during regular season too, or that while UConn went 4-7 over the 11 games, Notre Dame went 10-1.
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Actually, your points are well written and supported TCF... per usual. I will walk back my comparison some to say you are right, based upon the numbers Hansbrough did deserve serious consideration. And the fact they finished 2nd in the BE, went 2-0 against us AND Hansbrough went 21, 5 & 4 against us in the last game of the year when they beat us in Gampel probably helped sway some votes his way, as well. Kemba had 34 in that game, but we did lose to them as you correctly point out, finished below them AND had to play on the first day of the BE tournament, where as they did not have to play their first game until day 3.
 
Kemba actually wasn’t great in the big east regular season. Believe he shot 39 percent.
 
Eh, Kemba has a national championship and is laughing all the way to the bank in the NBA. The other 2 would trade places with him in a second.
 
I've said this only about 100 times on the Boneyard, but the big difference with the drop in Kemba's numbers is that so many of his baskets in the OOC and the post season tourneys came from his drives, and getting to the line.

The BE refs never called fouls on his drives. This caused his shooting % to go down, and also lead to tighter games and losses. Fewer times at the FT line too.

The team went 23-0 outside the BE regular season, and Kemba's stats were great.

This is a very telling statistic compared to the 9-9 regular season record, and Kemba's much worse FG%. There is a reason for this kind of divergence, and it is NOT the level of competition, since UConn faced even better teams than those in the BE during the pre- and post-season.
 
The joy was in txting my sister during the first game in Maui "OMG, Kemba's the best player in college basketball," and watching it play out during a season in which UCONN won ALL out-of-conference & neutral court games. During conference play, opponents concentrated on stopping Kemba, and the refs 'let them play.' This toughened UConn for the Big East Tournament run, and the NCAAs were called more in line with historical norms.
Both POY Awards were announced before the post-season.
Yeah, the post will get deleted but it's not entirely wrong, just as it's not entirely right.
 
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upstater said:
I've said this only about 100 times on the Boneyard, but the big difference with the drop in Kemba's numbers is that so many of his baskets in the OOC and the post season tourneys came from his drives, and getting to the line.

The BE refs never called fouls on his drives. This caused his shooting % to go down, and also lead to tighter games and losses. Fewer times at the FT line too.

The team went 23-0 outside the BE regular season, and Kemba's stats were great.

This is a very telling statistic compared to the 9-9 regular season record, and Kemba's much worse FG%. There is a reason for this kind of divergence, and it is NOT the level of competition, since UConn faced even better teams than those in the BE during the pre- and post-season.
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You posted while I was writing.
 
HooperScooper said:
Eh, Kemba has a national championship and is laughing all the way to the bank in the NBA. The other 2 would trade places with him in a second.
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And both the Notre Lame and BYU programs would trade places with us in a heartbeat. 4>0 x 2.
 
Liked for "Black Guards Matter."

Agree with most points made here. Kemba was the best player, but there are valid arguments for the other guys to win those awards.

I'm quite sure no one voting for those guys would have taken them over Kemba that year, but that's not the only criteria.
 
I think people forget that after an absolutely amazing start to that season, Kemba shot awful in the middle of the season. I remember there being some backlash against him that season. Not exactly his fault but over a 12 game split (games 11-23)

10 for 27 Pitt
7 for 18 SFla
8 for 23 ND
8 for 27 Tex
7 for 15 Rutgers
10 for 17 Depaul
6 for 18 Nova
6 for 17 Tennessee
5 for 16 Marquette
7 for 23 Louisville
3 for 14 Cuse
7 for 19 Seton Hall
4 for 16 St Johns

Now he was forced to take a lot of shots b/c JLamb had not completely emerged, but that is 10 conference games where his shooting, as a whole, was pretty putrid.
 
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Kenny11 said:
I wasn't on the BY back then so I don't know what the discussions were like. But obviously this was bullcrap.

Kemba lost out to Ben freaking Hansbrough and Jimmer freaking Fredette.

Excuse me as I reach deep into my pocket and pull out the RACE CARD.


Not Sorry for the rant. Peace and love. Black Guards Matter
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I love Kemba but no. He won the most important thing, a championship.

The USA has really become insufferable with everyone going so nuts about race these days (and yes, I agree with NFL players, they have a legit gripe and should kneel to protest police slayings). Regardless, it is refreshing to (have lived) in Colombia or living in Guatemala where there just aren't all those theatrics about the topic. Why make everything into a racial matter? Take a breath, chill, etc. The voters voted for the ones they thought were best. The 3 losses in 5 games to end the season (including a loss to NDame) might have stuck in voters minds too, who knows. Regardless, too late to do anything about it, complaining accomplishes nothing.

Love Kemba, but he has proven himself to be the superior player over time, let the other kiddies have their little POY medals or whatever. He has his ring and the proof required to show he is actually better.

boog204 said:
I think people forget that after an absolutely amazing start to that season, Kemba shot awful in the middle of the season. I remember there being some backlash against him that season. Not exactly his fault but over a 12 game split (games 11-23)

10 for 27 Pitt
7 for 18 SFla
8 for 23 ND
8 for 27 Tex
7 for 15 Rutgers
10 for 17 Depaul
6 for 18 Nova
6 for 17 Tennessee
5 for 16 Marquette
7 for 23 Louisville
3 for 14 Cuse
7 for 19 Seton Hall
4 for 16 St Johns

Now he was forced to take a lot of shots b/c JLamb had not completely emerged, but that is 10 conference games where his shooting, as a whole, was pretty putrid.
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And that will stick in voters minds as I said above, agree or not. He proved his value in the 11 games to end the season, that is all that matters.

Kenny11 said:
Those awards going to white kids that were good (in Jimmer's case very good) college players are examples of racial bias. This is more understandable by the media voters and less understandable by the Big East Coaches.
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2009 Blake Griffin Oklahoma Forward Sophomore
2010 Evan Turner Ohio State Guard Junior
2011 Jimmer Fredette Brigham Young Guard Senior
2012 Anthony Davis Kentucky Center Freshman
2013 Trey Burke Michigan Guard Sophomore
2014 Doug McDermott Creighton Forward Senior
2015 Frank Kaminsky Wisconsin Forward Senior
2016 Buddy Hield Oklahoma Guard Senior
2017 Frank Mason III

Not seeing it.

Also, Frank was an absolute beast! I think you could argue maybe one of those selections, sort of. But for the most part, I think voters get it right year to year.
 
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boog204 said:
I think people forget that after an absolutely amazing start to that season, Kemba shot awful in the middle of the season. I remember there being some backlash against him that season. Not exactly his fault but over a 12 game split (games 11-23)

10 for 27 Pitt
7 for 18 SFla
8 for 23 ND
8 for 27 Tex
7 for 15 Rutgers
10 for 17 Depaul
6 for 18 Nova
6 for 17 Tennessee
5 for 16 Marquette
7 for 23 Louisville
3 for 14 Cuse
7 for 19 Seton Hall
4 for 16 St Johns

Now he was forced to take a lot of shots b/c JLamb had not completely emerged, but that is 10 conference games where his shooting, as a whole, was pretty putrid.
Expand ...

Call 3 fouls a game on those missed shots, and his shooting improves massively. Scoring too.
 
tcf15 said:
Before this probably gets deleted...

Hansbrough actually had a decent argument for winning BE POY over Walker. He was the best player on a Notre Dame team that finished 2nd in the Big East with a 14-4 record. Kemba Walker was the best player on a UConn team that finished 9th with a 9-9 record. Looking at just conference games, which I imagine is the basis for determining conference player of the year, Hansbrough was a better offensive player than Kemba too - higher FG% (50.9 to 39.5), higher 3PFG% (43.0 to 33.0), higher TS% (65.9 to 50.0) and higher PER (29.0 to 25.2).

Also, it probably didn't help that Notre Dame went 2-0 against UConn during regular season too, or that while UConn went 4-7 over the 11 games, Notre Dame went 10-1.
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Would you take hansbrough over Kemba?
 
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