A contrarian view: UConn in the AAC will boost recruiting.

[Vowelguy]

The AAC will get better. It wont happen right away but it will eventually.

Yes.
But right now it's like Usain Bolt racing against a 12-yr old. Yes, the 12-yr old will get better, but how long until the 12-yr old gets competitive with Usain?

 

[Fightin Choke]

I agree with everything you stated in your characteristically thoughtful post except for what I consider your excessive concern about the transition at Tennessee from Pat to Holly.

As I see it, Holly inherited a difficult situation and has rebounded quite well, both on the court and as a recruiter. Just adding Graves and recruiting Russell gives their future a big boost. They are certainly in better shape than they were, say, two or three years ago.

When I read doggydaddy's post, I interpreted the Pat/Holly transition as including the period where Pat was suffering from early onset of dementia but remained the coach. And certainly in that period Tennessee underperformed given the huge amount of talent that Pat had accumulated.

 

[Kibitzer]

Yes.
But right now it's like Usain Bolt racing against a 12-yr old. Yes, the 12-yr old will get better, but how long until the 12-yr old gets competitive with Usain?

You make a valid point, perhaps with a touch of exaggeration. The teams in the AAC (good and bad alike) are all Division I, they recruit with presumed enthusiasm and varying success, and all will have a complete roster turnover every four years or so.

And one thing is certain. If Usain Bolt were to race a 12-year old or anybody else, he would generate interest by his presence and put fannies in the seats. Just as UConn will do.

 

[ctchamps]

Interesting discussion on long term issues, but I don't think you can really equate women's college basketball with major men's sports and within WCBB the change resulting from title IX is so short and the influx of major funding into women's sports is only 20+ years old that looking back even 15 years for precedence is dangerous. You can also look at major conference teams that have fallen on extremely hard times based not on conference affiliation but on mismanagement and poor coaches. Uconn is certainly a team that has been built on the backs of Geno and Chris and will have a tough transition when they leave just as TN is experiencing now. I don't think anyone can predict how that transition will turn out and I don't really think conference alignment will be the determining factor, just like the SEC affiliation will not play a significant role in the outcome of TN's transition. Holly will stand or fall based on her own abilities and TN will only be as good as Holly and or her successor and the ADs support are able to carry them. They have an advantage over most other WCBB programs in that they start with a rabid fan base and a decent financial situation. Uconn will have the same. But both are dependent to some degree on continued success - fans may be rabid, but a string of 18 win seasons can tax all but the most fanatic.

Well thought out post. Short term Uconn's football program has greater vulnerability than men's bb, which has greater vulnerability than woman's bb. At least as things appear today. But as you point out things are in a state of flux. Worse case scenario, for the university, is that UConn remains in a conference with little media dollars coming in and because of budgeting, has to make cuts in athletics. If Geno retires at this time the program could deteriorate much quicker than if UConn were in a conference with media support and could hire a great coach.

I find it myopic (not you) but fans of any program (football or basketball) not understanding the value of each sport to the other and the value of the conferences toward the individual universities.

 

[Vowelguy]

You make a valid point, perhaps with a touch of exaggeration. The teams in the AAC (good and bad alike) are all Division I, they recruit with presumed enthusiasm and varying success, and all will have a complete roster turnover every four years or so.

And one thing is certain. If Usain Bolt were to race a 12-year old or anybody else, he would generate interest by his presence and put fannies in the seats. Just as UConn will do.

You're referring to road games.

I'm thinking of home games. The quality of UConn's home schedule undoubtedly goes down. That likely means lower ticket sales, and more significantly lower seasons ticket sales. Those are important for (a) revenue, but also (b) to prove to recruits that UConn has a special fan base, with support unlike most other schools.

 

[meyers7]

UConn in the AAC will boost recruiting

Well obviously it won't boost recruiting. The question is will it hurt it at all. At least while Geno is around I don't think too much, if at all.

 

[Tonyc]

Well obviously it won't boost recruiting. The question is will it hurt it at all. At least while Geno is around I don't think too much, if at all.

Ive got to agree. If a girl wants to play for the best coach, with the best players theres only one UConn. The OOC schedule is the tuffest . In conference everybody will get minutes. Hey how many top 10 teams play cupcake OOC schedules? We've heard that for years. UNC come to mind and they still get great players. Argue all you want the key is Geno and NCs. The SEC has gotten weaker over the past few years and they still get good players. Look at Tenn. Pat is out and Holly is in and theyre still getting top kids and they have been underperforming for years.

 

[Kibitzer]

You're referring to road games.

I'm thinking of home games. The quality of UConn's home schedule undoubtedly goes down. That likely means lower ticket sales, and more significantly lower seasons ticket sales. Those are important for (a) revenue, but also (b) to prove to recruits that UConn has a special fan base, with support unlike most other schools.

Last evening I watched "12 Angry Men" and today I find myself echoing Henry Fonda -- the doggedly persistent juror who held out against conviction of the accused -- as he raised doubts about every shred of evidence, then asking: "Is it possible?"

I readily concede your point that some AAC teams are not the potential draw vs. UConn in Gampel or the XL Center as teams like ND or Rutgers have been.

But is it possible that the likes of SMU or Temple just might pack them in as well as Seton Hall or Providence did?

And is it also possible (relying once again on the USain Bolt example) that this particular UConn team (Stewie, KML, Stef et al) just might be so exciting to UConn fandom that they will draw at least as well as teams in recent years regardless of the opposition?

Your point is persuasive but I am left to ask about attendance holding steady. Is it possible?

 

[cabbie191]

You're referring to road games.

Those are important for (a) revenue, but also (b) to prove to recruits that UConn has a special fan base, with support unlike most other schools.

Gosh, I hate to be sour on this but this forum has had several discussions on declining attendance at UConn games. Yes, the Huskies still draw near the top (4th in 2012 per NCAA statistics website) but the trend line isn't where we should hope it would be.

For crying out loud, Iowa State's average attendance was nearly 600 higher than ours. And no matter how much we normally decry the Orange fans, we ought to recognize and give credit to the fact that their support for the Lady Vols has remained exceptionally strong despite their relatively lean years.

Bottom line, I'm not sure that being in a better conference would necessarily have much impact on our home attendance.

And Kibitzer - "12 Angry Men" is one of my favorite classics.

 

[UcMiami]

Kib - I think it is still an ongoing transition at TN and while I was impressed with Holly last year it is still early in her career. Given some negative TN publicity re the AD it could get ugly. And Pat is still in the building which probably helps.
On the attendance numbers - yes there is a drop off, but I believe attendance x ticket price probably has Uconn still at the top, and this for a program that has every game telecast locally as well as nationally. If not every game was on TV I suspect the attendance numbers would trend up again, and that TV contract is I am sure more than making up for lost revenue on ticket sales.

 

[Kibitzer]

For crying out loud, Iowa State's average attendance was nearly 600 higher than ours.

Many factors play into attendance (state of the economy, quality of both the home team and the competition, etc., etc.), and one is the price of tickets. Season tix at Iowa State (all games, at least a dozen) go for $160 reserved and $99 general admission. I just renewed my season tix for 7 games in Hartford for $136 each.

Perhaps a surer gauge of attendance/fan interest would be to compute and announce gate receipts (attendance x ticket price).

I confess to being insufficiently resourceful to pursue this. Since I lost my lust for combat in a faraway place long ago I won't sustain this debate.

 

[cabbie191]

Many factors play into attendance (state of the economy, quality of both the home team and the competition, etc., etc.), and one is the price of tickets. Season tix at Iowa State (all games, at least a dozen) go for $160 reserved and $99 general admission. I just renewed my season tix for 7 games in Hartford for $136 each.

Absolutely there is disparity in ticket prices and I'm sure that plays a large role in attendance. I live in Wisconsin and have gone to Milwaukee to see the Huskies play at Marquette - great seats for as low as $6.00! Paid more parking when I went to the Thanksgiving tournament at Gampel a few years ago with my brother.

 

[Buzzyboy]

At best, the AAC effect is neutral.
But the lack of competition and the extended travel are not pluses. And I mean lack of competition. After Lou and Rut leave, I'm not sure any AAC team will get within 30 for years to come.

And the 18 game AAC schedule means 2 fewer quality OOC opponents.

And that leaves aside the whole monetary issue of trying to compete when you're taking many fewer $

I think you mentioning the 18 game conference schedule is important. What it means is that our OOC schedule can be better due to the "soft teams" in the conference. You didn't want to schedule too many better teams in OOC because you wanted some easier teams to compensate for the pretty decent conference teams we played. Now, if you're correct and the conference teams appear to be containing far too many laughers, we can pick up the overall balance scheduling even more top shelf opponents to beef up our overall look. We almost never played good OOC teams after mid January but maybe in this new league, we would.

 

[Vowelguy]

I think you mentioning the 18 game conference schedule is important. What it means is that our OOC schedule can be better due to the "soft teams" in the conference. You didn't want to schedule too many better teams in OOC because you wanted some easier teams to compensate for the pretty decent conference teams we played. Now, if you're correct and the conference teams appear to be containing far too many laughers, we can pick up the overall balance scheduling even more top shelf opponents to beef up our overall look. We almost never played good OOC teams after mid January but maybe in this new league, we would.

I disagree. I think the main reason UConn has had weaker opponents on its nonconfrence schedule is because those are the ones that won't require return games. UConn needs home games to get the revenue. At most you're looking at 8 teams that it will have home-and-homes with.
And the reason that UConn rarely plays out of conference after January is because most schools don't want nonconfrence match ups during crunch time on their conference schedule.

 

[Wonkster]

... though Barmore's departure was the predominant reason LaTech fell off the map, the program clearly was not as dominant in the 90s as other conferences gained strength.

LA Tech fell off the map for the same reason all Mid-Majors fell off the map: the relative paucity of support a smaller school can provide (if it cares to) compared to bigger institutions like U-Name-it State Universities. It was just a matter of time, Barmore or no Barmore.

 

[Vowelguy]

LA Tech fell off the map for the same reason all Mid-Majors fell off the map: the relative paucity of support a smaller school can provide (if it cares to) compared to bigger institutions like U-Name-it State Universities. It was just a matter of time, Barmore or no Barmore.

Support = money.
Lesser conferences get lesser FB contracts which means less money.

 

[winlots]

Many factors play into attendance (state of the economy, quality of both the home team and the competition, etc., etc.), and one is the price of tickets. Season tix at Iowa State (all games, at least a dozen) go for $160 reserved and $99 general admission. I just renewed my season tix for 7 games in Hartford for $136 each.

Perhaps a surer gauge of attendance/fan interest would be to compute and announce gate receipts (attendance x ticket price).

I confess to being insufficiently resourceful to pursue this. Since I lost my lust for combat in a faraway place long ago I won't sustain this debate.

KIB: well, you know yourself far better than I will ever know you, obviously. But, based on my limited exposure, I'd say you have not "lost your lust for combat." You've just transferred it to a different arena. Although you've been a pain in the ass (to me) on here, I once again salute you for what you did in that "faraway place long ago." And, once again, I send a rare tip o' the Winlots cap to you and to all your comrades who have served our nation so well. Stay well.

 

[Kibitzer]

LA Tech fell off the map for the same reason all Mid-Majors fell off the map: the relative paucity of support a smaller school can provide (if it cares to) compared to bigger institutions like U-Name-it State Universities. It was just a matter of time, Barmore or no Barmore.

This makes the achievements of teams like Gonzaga and Marist all the more impressive. Bradley comes to mind on the men's side. And Princeton, back in the day when Pete C. was coaching.

 

[Icebear]

This makes the achievements of teams like Gonzaga and Marist all the more impressive. Bradley comes to mind on the men's side. And Princeton, back in the day when Pete C. was coaching.

And those achievements are not the type of goals UCONN is pursuing.

 

[DobbsRover2]

As has been pointed out numerous times, the 2012 RPI rating of all the teams playing in the AAC of 2013-14 was higher than some of the puffed up power conferences who BYers now kowtow to because ....... well, because they're power conferences, gosh darn it, and ESPN told us so. And having the two NC teams from last year for the conference's rookie year means squat I'm sure, though it does sound like a nice handle for the conference's marketing team to work to the max while it lasts. Geno's squad vs. Jeff's squad x 4 (optimistically throwing in a third NC matchup) is kind of a dream promo opportunity.

And of course by the time 2014-15 rolls around, everything in WCBB's team power status is magically petrified to be exactly the way it was for the last few years. Playing the best team in the country year after year just makes the other teams in the AAC throw in the towel and give up, like Rutgers, ND, and Louisville did in the BEast. Makes sense to me. And playing the Clemsons and Wake Forests and other world beaters of the ACC will keep ND and Louisville good and sharp. Understood.

And Iowa State's attendance numbers are very impressive in a state where exciting things to do in the winter aren't plentiful. Still would rather have the UConn WCBB estimated revenue numbers, which many football teams would give their top concussion medic for. But as always, we are dooooooooooooooooooooooooomed.

 

[semper]

Yeah, yeah. I still don't like it. I hope we can schedule lots of competitive teams because the conference is going to be a snore.

 

[Waquoit]

Well obviously it won't boost recruiting. The question is will it hurt it at all. At least while Geno is around I don't think too much, if at all.

I agree. It will boost recruiting for the other AAC teams however. The chance to play UConn once or twice a season is quite a draw. The BE was horrible until UConn caught fire. By the time the BE was done it was the best conference in the country.

 

[Paul1969]

The last couple of graduating classes including 2014 to come have been the best classes ever. There are so many amazing WBB players now coming out of HS. UConn does not have room for all of them on the team. As long as we continue to get the #1/#2 Player every couple of years and some other top players Geno can develop into top notch players we will be just fine. Geno takes top 20 players and turns them into All Americans!

 

[NickyNewark]

As an RU fan including and espescially FB andWBB I see UConn's WBB brand beyond reproach and as long as Geno's here should continue to thrive but I'm not as confident about some other sports being able to maintain the same high standards w/o a big5 invite in the next year or two!?!Lets hope the B1G or ACC correct this shortsightedness!

 

[meyers7]

I agree. It will boost recruiting for the other AAC teams however. The chance to play UConn once or twice a season is quite a draw. The BE was horrible until UConn caught fire. By the time the BE was done it was the best conference in the country.

True, it probably will help other AAC teams. Well the new ones anyway.