A Conscious Design by the NCAA to Allow More Physical Play and Therefore Call Less Fouls in the Final Four?

[RoadMaster]

 

[RoadMaster]

 

[GoCardinal]

It's not the skills. It's the refereeing. When they call the game as "let them play" it's a euphemism for we only call obvious shooting fouls. It hurts the game by making it a weak imitation of the mens game when it should stand on its own as a sport of elegance , poise, grace, and teamwork. I fully believe there was word given to both sets of referees to "let them play" because the games were eerily called almost identically.

I actually think it’s a bit of both. I don’t think a lot of teams have fundamentally sound offensive players, and I don’t think officiating is great. Outside of the Final 4 teams, there are absolutely some other offensively inept teams that advanced to Sweet 16s and beyond. Combine that with overly physical play and we get what we saw yesterday. I think because of a lack of offensive skills, several teams across the country are coached to make games slower and more physical because they can’t score.

 

[HopJim]

I'm writing this with a bit of humor, but both Final Four games reminded me of the first high shcool game I got into 50+ years ago. Since all of our centers had fouled out, I had the pleasure at 6' to guard a 7 footer. I hit him every time he had the ball, stepped on his feet before he could go for a rebound and generally tried to make his life miserable. Fouled out in 10 minutes. If you can take the pain, watch the South Carolina game again and focus on Sarah. SC pushed her before every rebound, elbowed her as she went for passes, etc. No fouls called. The only positive I can get out of the game was that the UConn players had great self control. My elbows would have been used much more than the Huskies did.

 

[Basingstoke]

I'm writing this with a bit of humor, but both Final Four games reminded me of the first high shcool game I got into 50+ years ago. Since all of our centers had fouled out, I had the pleasure at 6' to guard a 7 footer. I hit him every time he had the ball, stepped on his feet before he could go for a rebound and generally tried to make his life miserable. Fouled out in 10 minutes. If you can take the pain, watch the South Carolina game again and focus on Sarah. SC pushed her before every rebound, elbowed her as she went for passes, etc. No fouls called. The only positive I can get out of the game was that the UConn players had great self control. My elbows would have been used much more than the Huskies did.

Not that I want it to happen, but I can't help but visualize Sarah playing in a situation like last night with Alyssa Thomas' level of aggression.

 

[Woof 101]

I don't think it showcased anything except physicality and the poor quality of the referees. I very much doubt if the mens games will be called that way tonight. In fact, we all know they would never tolerate that.

While I agree somewhat with your post and liked it, basketball over the years has become Brawlball. Growing up in the 60s / 70s I played a lot of ball. Contact was minimal with any opponent, when dribbling the hand with the ball could not go beyond 4 0'clock for the right hand or 8 0'clock with the left it was called a carry. You could not catch the ball and bounce it look around and start dribbling it was called a double dribble. You could not establish a pivot foot and keep moving it, that was a travel. You could not shoulder shove the defender to establish space that was an offensive foul.
I could go on and on but not needed, what I once regarded as ballet with a ball has become what I labeled it above. Over the last few years, loosing interest. Even football as rough as it is has a penalty for holding not so much anymore with basketball.

 

[HuskyNan]

she is a Georgia Tech assistant coach and Brenda’s sister

 

[Gusaford]

This has been a pattern for several years - "let them play". At some point Dee Kantner was asked during the broadcast and said that there were clearly fouls that could have been called, but nothing "egregious" and it was consistent and even both ways.

Here's the thing - That style of refereeing will never benefit UConn, just as when CVS was coaching Rutgers she commented that a closely called game would never benefit Rutgers.

I don't typically follow the men's game, but I have watched a couple as Arizona has moved to the Final Four. Meh, I don't enjoy it much, but I don't see how calling the game loosely makes women's basketball resemble men's. One similar factor - Arizona men play a style where they try to force the other team to foul them. This works pretty well, often results in a foul discrepancy, and gets fans of the other teams claiming that the ref's are "favoring" Arizona when it is really just a style thing.

I don't understand why ESPN thinks Dee Kantner adds much of anything. The announcers know the officiating rules as do most knowledgeable fans.

Dee Kanter is not going to say that the officiating is one-sided or unfair, whether it is or isn't. She's a paid expert for ESPN. What's she going to say, "One team is getting hosed by the refs?" It would be her last gig.

 

[BBallF]

she is a Georgia Tech assistant coach and Brenda’s sister

!000%. And exactly what is the NCAA doing about it? 0. This has been going on for years. I hope everyone is watching the men's game. If they called our game the same way. there would have been 50 fouls. However, the teams would have adjusted and we would be back to basketball.

 

[Bone Dog]

I was watching the UCLA v. Texas game and I could not believe what I was seeing. At one point a guard from UCLA with the ball deliberately knocked over a player on Texas with a stiff arm right in front of the referee and there was no call. It looks like they passed the word to "let them play" but to what extent can that be fairly implemented? That was certainly true in our game. Unfortunately, it does not help the elegance and optics of the game and also leads to low scoring, sloppy games and a different product than the regular season. Halftime score UCLA 20 - Texas 17. Final 51-44. Texas shot 30% from the field. UCLA only had 44 shots but made 20, thanks to Betts underneath. We shot 31%, SC 37%. Two very low scoring games. When you hold, grab, muscle, and foul, the scoring will drop as it did. It would be a very high level of coincidence that both games were randomly called exactly the same way. It actually appears plausible that word was passed to the referees in both games either by the NCAA or otherwise to call the games a certain way and the question is whether the result of that did anything to promote the game. I don't think it showcased anything except physicality and the poor quality of the referees. I very much doubt if the mens games will be called that way tonight. In fact, we all know they would never tolerate that.

Intentional or not, this has been true of the tournament for years. The surprising thing is that top ten coaches don’t prep their teams for it more explicitly.

 

[Pharos]

I actually think it’s a bit of both. I don’t think a lot of teams have fundamentally sound offensive players, and I don’t think officiating is great. Outside of the Final 4 teams, there are absolutely some other offensively inept teams that advanced to Sweet 16s and beyond. Combine that with overly physical play and we get what we saw yesterday. I think because of a lack of offensive skills, several teams across the country are coached to make games slower and more physical because they can’t score.

That's what it looks like. Are they all "athletes" physically? Sometimes not so much.

 

[Pharos]

I was watching the UCLA v. Texas game and I could not believe what I was seeing. At one point a guard from UCLA with the ball deliberately knocked over a player on Texas with a stiff arm right in front of the referee and there was no call. It looks like they passed the word to "let them play" but to what extent can that be fairly implemented? That was certainly true in our game. Unfortunately, it does not help the elegance and optics of the game and also leads to low scoring, sloppy games and a different product than the regular season. Halftime score UCLA 20 - Texas 17. Final 51-44. Texas shot 30% from the field. UCLA only had 44 shots but made 20, thanks to Betts underneath. We shot 31%, SC 37%. Two very low scoring games. When you hold, grab, muscle, and foul, the scoring will drop as it did. It would be a very high level of coincidence that both games were randomly called exactly the same way. It actually appears plausible that word was passed to the referees in both games either by the NCAA or otherwise to call the games a certain way and the question is whether the result of that did anything to promote the game. I don't think it showcased anything except physicality and the poor quality of the referees. I very much doubt if the mens games will be called that way tonight. In fact, we all know they would never tolerate that.

The UConn men's game just now was a picture of the right balance. Tough underneath and space to move otherwise.

 

[BBallF]

They called UConn for a bunch of touch fouls in the second half.

Yes they did, but none on SC in the third quarter. In the men's game tonight, they called it tight to begin with and both teams adjusted. It was a great game, not a sloppy one, despite the fact that neither team shot particularly well. It showcased the sport, it didn't diminish it. That is my biggest gripe about the refs for the last several years. Someone is pulling the strings here many of us suspect and that "let them play" refrain is making a beautiful sport look raggedy.

 

[BBallF]

Intentional or not, this has been true of the tournament for years. The surprising thing is that top ten coaches don’t prep their teams for it more explicitly.

My question is why? Who is deciding this? What right do they have to do so if they are in fact tampering? I think in general preparing for a game that is going to be very physical because you know the refs are not following the rules is in and of itself absurd.

 

[BBallF]

The UConn men's game just now was a picture of the right balance. Tough underneath and space to move otherwise.

Yes ironic isn't it that there is more freedom of movement in the men's game with 7 footers and multiple wide bodies than there is with the women.

 

[ucmiami2]

I hate games where the whistles take over and it becomes attrition and a free throw shooting contest as the fouls mount. That said, I hate the opposite as well when no fouls except the most blatant get called and the game becomes some form of wrestling. So it is a balancing act for the refs and certain coaching styles make it a real problem.

I do think the women's refs swallowed there whistles from the super regionals on, and I am not really sure about the first weekend because most of those games are blow-outs anyway.

And looking at the loss last night the foul distribution was:
Q1 - SC 0, Uconn 2
Q2 - SC 3, Uconn 2
Q3 - SC 0, Uconn 6
Q4 through 8 minutes - SC 4, Uconn 3
Q4 final 2 minutes - SC 1, Uconn 4

I think Q3 was when Geno's temperature rose to boiling point. And 7 fouls between two teams in 20 first half minutes of a physical games suggests the refs had their eyes closed most of the time. 0-6 in the third suggests they opened one eye, and 7 fouls in 8 fourth quarter minutes suggests they squinted through both eyes.

ON EDIT: Just checked SC stats and they averaged 12.7 fouls per game before last night, so committed less than 66% of their average. Uconn committed 12.8 fouls per game so excluded last 2 minutes fouls hit their average.

 

[hoophuskee]

many of my friends won't watch wcbb. At times someone might ask me soemthing about them but won't watch it. when 4 powerhouse teams can only score 62/48/51/44 then what's the point of wwasting 2 hours of your time watching so many missed shots unless you are a fan of that team or already a big time fan of the entire sport?. Unless its UCONN I'm not going to watch a 51-50 game. And you're not going to get much conversion of fans when scores are this low. If teh scorers weere more liek 78-77 then I would watch and more fans would come aboard.

 

[Boreifs]

Fewer fouls, not less. Fewer is number; less is amount.

 

[Woof]

No foul called

No foul called

Gee, I wonder why she missed shots.

 

[Woof]

many of my friends won't watch wcbb. At times someone might ask me soemthing about them but won't watch it. when 4 powerhouse teams can only score 62/48/51/44 then what's the point of wwasting 2 hours of your time watching so many missed shots unless you are a fan of that team or already a big time fan of the entire sport?. Unless its UCONN I'm not going to watch a 51-50 game. And you're not going to get much conversion of fans when scores are this low. If teh scorers weere more liek 78-77 then I would watch and more fans would come aboard.

It is ugly basketball. It helps Dawn but it hurts the entire sport and prevents these young women from displaying their true skills.

 

[Dogdude]

It is ugly basketball. It helps Dawn but it hurts the entire sport and prevents these young women from displaying their true skills.

I think it would only hurt Dawn short-term. She's perfectly capable of coaching a sweet game, and her players are perfectly capable of playing one. But if the refs let them get away with it, you take what you're given. Until the money, meaning the networks who benefit financially, the NCAA and all the coaches get together to change it, we're headed down a slippery slope to ugly town.

 

[oldude]

View attachment 119311
No foul called
View attachment 119312

No foul called

Gee, I wonder why she missed shots.

In 2013, the NCAA instituted rule 10-14 prohibiting “hand checking” that impeded the movement of players on offense. It was mostly applied to perimeter defense and was clearly designed to improve scoring and eliminate games degenerating into wrestling matches or a constant parade to the foul line.

Unfortunately, the NCAA did not prohibit “Bear hugs” and other wrestling moves that we often see in the post. Perhaps it’s time for coaches and administrators to consider another change that would be in the interests of the players, coaches and fans, promoting a faster, higher scoring and far more watchable brand of basketball.

 

[TX-Hawk]

I will pay them back by not watching a minute of today's game.

 

[Pharos]

In 2013, the NCAA instituted rule 10-14 prohibiting “hand checking” that impeded the movement of players on offense. It was mostly applied to perimeter defense and was clearly designed to improve scoring and eliminate games degenerating into wrestling matches or a constant parade to the foul line.

Unfortunately, the NCAA did not prohibit “Bear hugs” and other wrestling moves that we often see in the post. Perhaps it’s time for coaches and administrators to consider another change that would be in the interests of the players, coaches and fans, promoting a faster, higher scoring and far more watchable brand of basketball.

LOL and right on!

 

[Pharos]

View attachment 119311
No foul called
View attachment 119312

No foul called

Gee, I wonder why she missed shots.

"Alright girls. Today we're going to practice dribbling." "Miss Johnson, where are the balls?" "Tinker, we don't need balls for this drill. In this drill, we're going to practice what we do with our other arm, the one that's not dribbling the ball. We call this skill 'fending off' and it's very important if you want to go on an play women's college basketball. Ok. Ready. Let's begin with our left arms. Push out. Push out. Sweep away. Sweep away. Good job, girls. Now let's try our right arms........"

 

[BBallF]

View attachment 119311
No foul called
View attachment 119312

No foul called

Gee, I wonder why she missed shots.

This is absolutely OUTRAGEOUS! I have written letters before to the NCAA but perhaps it should go to ESPN and also to the sponsors on TV. What a joke. This coupled with the glaring lack of fouls on South Carolina makes one have a angry sense of injustice.

 

[BBallF]

In 2013, the NCAA instituted rule 10-14 prohibiting “hand checking” that impeded the movement of players on offense. It was mostly applied to perimeter defense and was clearly designed to improve scoring and eliminate games degenerating into wrestling matches or a constant parade to the foul line.

Unfortunately, the NCAA did not prohibit “Bear hugs” and other wrestling moves that we often see in the post. Perhaps it’s time for coaches and administrators to consider another change that would be in the interests of the players, coaches and fans, promoting a faster, higher scoring and far more watchable brand of basketball.

As a start, I would simply be happy if they enforced Rule 10-14.

 

[BBallF]

Unfortunately, the officiating was very poor and has become the story of these games. The "letting them play" approach means ignoring the rules of the game. It went too far and the result was unrecognizable as women's college basketball and wholly unwatchable.

While UCONN fans will watch their team play anywhere and anytime, this style of play will not grow the game for the general public. It encourages rule violations and injuries. There is no beauty to the game, no elegance. The question is, do the people who make the decisions really care about the game or just attendance, TV audience, merchandising etc.? In order to fix this, something different has to be done. It has to be through the network or the sponsors. It has to be a grass roots movement. The NCAA are a bunch of womens basketball morons.

 

[Bigboote]

In 2013, the NCAA instituted rule 10-14 prohibiting “hand checking” that impeded the movement of players on offense. It was mostly applied to perimeter defense and was clearly designed to improve scoring and eliminate games degenerating into wrestling matches or a constant parade to the foul line.

Unfortunately, the NCAA did not prohibit “Bear hugs” and other wrestling moves that we often see in the post. Perhaps it’s time for coaches and administrators to consider another change that would be in the interests of the players, coaches and fans, promoting a faster, higher scoring and far more watchable brand of basketball.

They wrapped the guards in bubble wrap when the forwards need football uniforms.

 

[Scoe]

No question Genos frustration had to do with the officiating and of course our own play. Dawn worked the officials and had a better Gaige of the officiating then Geno did. Of course everything Geno says is under a microscope as we all know.

There's this notion out there that UConn gets all the calls and it's not true. Geno as the all time winningest coach apparently isn't allowed to show emotion and if he does he's a bully. Now Geno was wrong but there is absolutely a double standard with him and Dawn with the officiating and in the media.

Looking at it just from a general fans perspective taking off our blue colored glasses the officiating absolutely sucks.