OT: A/C

[Fishy]

What would two mini splits cost, installed? The first estimate I got was $7,500, which seems high.

That is very, very high.

For your edification, go to Home Depot and arrange for an estimate through their contractor services.

You don’t have to use them, but at least you’ll have a better idea of what kind of cost you’re looking at.

 

[tykurez]

Minisplits - look at mitsubishi - they just actually came out with a new machine this year - you can have upto 3 air handlers (the part that goes in your room) attached to one outside condenser. $7500 is so high.

Apparently there's units that can handle up to 5 now? I was just quote $17k for a 5 unit LG system with one condenser. Such a huge investment but I'm not sure I can handle the heat all summer and I'm so sick of window units.

Anyone in Fairfield/New Haven county with good company suggestions? The above was from Sippin.

 

[TRest]

Apparently there's units that can handle up to 5 now? I was just quote $17k for a 5 unit LG system with one condenser. Such a huge investment but I'm not sure I can handle the heat all summer and I'm so sick of window units.

Anyone in Fairfield/New Haven county with good company suggestions? The above was from Sippin.

You don't have any existing duct work, old system, etc?

 

[tykurez]

You don't have any existing duct work, old system, etc?

The house was built before Lincoln was president, no duct work. A central system would probably cost me 2-3x as much.

 

[Danzz]

How are you going to get the forced air into the rooms without registers?

I can understand zone area temperature adjustment, but not individual room temperature adjustment.

I may not have understood your post.

I'm no expert but as I understand it the mini split system has no duct work. My daughter had it installed in her Queens apartment. There is a unit on the outside of her building that I believe is a cooling unit.
I believe she has 3 indoor units: 1 for each bedroom and a third larger unit for the remaining rooms so there is only 1 zone for say the kitchen and living room etc.

 

[Poe]

I have a split level home with two attics, so I need two systems. Just got a quote for $19,500 for the "value" system (Payne Value Series) and $24,000 for their best system (Carrier Performance Series), plus other options between those prices ranges. I guess I'm stuck using those horrendous floor units (can't use window units, because my windows open from side to side). I don't want to put that kind of money into a house that we may not stay in for more than 5 years, but I guess I also have to think of reselling a house with no central air.

 

[huskyinfl]

The air handlers cost like $500 to the install company. Condenser upwards of $2500 for a 3 ton 19.2 seer so they double it. This is all negotiable - most people don't negotiate HVAC.

Don't be afraid to ask how they come to these prices. Most companies are exclusive with certain vendors so they only push Trane or whatever.

Daikin + Goodman are the same company
Carrier is Payne/ Bryant comfortmaker
Trane is American standard. And so on

Lots of these machines are actually the same and come with 3 badges and installers just put the brand badge on at install.

 

[jayfromfla]

Look out fly ac hustlers. There is a small cylinder unit with 3-4 wires in it. When it fails your compressor will stop. Most ac crooks will sell you a new compressor. 3000 +. The part is 20. Look out.

 

[huskyinfl]

A capacitor you are right - easy fix.

 

[Richmondhsky]

1. Get a proper heat load calculation for your home.
2. Company is Key - newer machines are built for efficiency and not long usage - you will have issues - and you need yearly service or you will void your warranty.
3. Installation is key... like others have said - over charged / undercharged - wrong size duct work - unit too big /small these will all be issues in the future. Crap in your lineset can wreck your unit.

4. All the units suck - its the install that is key. What you are paying for is the noise level of the motors, a blanket on the inside to muffle the start/stop - seer rating. Manufacturers make it impossible to process warranty parts - so you want a large company that can actually afford to deal with all the BS.

Minisplits - look at mitsubishi - they just actually came out with a new machine this year - you can have upto 3 air handlers (the part that goes in your room) attached to one outside condenser. $7500 is so high.

Your sales guy should take AT LEAST 30 minutes scoping out the job - the machine he wants to sell you is the easy part - but all of the parts and measurements take time. If he doesn't get in attic / draw out your system design or account for all parts (PVC, Copper, Breakers/Panel) etc run away - He is just spitballing a number. Most HVAC companies first price will have 45-50% profit - negotiate.

If your sales guy doesn't know how much your job actually costs by doing a thorough analysis - dont trust that company.

Only work with licensed companies that pull permits & make sure they register your equipment - or when it breaks you are SOL on 10 years free part replacement. The county inspector is your best bet to review the quality of installs.

You're correct...the big chains pay a commission to the drivers who come to replace your HVAC. Wen't through this two years and replaced two gas furnaces and Air conditioning (up and downstairs). I got quotes from 5 different companies and went with a local guy who was a good 20% cheaper with Carrier equipment, hope that helps.

 

[uconnphil2016]

I have never had A/C. I have this giant industrial fan that sounds like a jet engine...put it on the highest speed right next to my bed. @UCYamsMD goes bonkers over it, so sometimes I bring it out just to get her riled up

 

[uconnfan68]

That is very, very high.

For your edification, go to Home Depot and arrange for an estimate through their contractor services.

You don’t have to use them, but at least you’ll have a better idea of what kind of cost you’re looking at.

Hope you get a smarter guy than I did for Windows. Showed him a quote for 11k from someone else, he goes through his spiel, breaks out his calculator, comes back with 14k, for cheaper windows. No thanks.

 

[huskyinfl]

I'm in the HVAC industry for one of the larger FL companies.

Most dishonest business out there and installing HVAC is one of the worst jobs and it's almost impossible to find guys that can do it right.

It's a license to steal especially when it gets hot and humid.

 

[uconnfan68]

I'm in the HVAC industry for one of the larger FL companies.

Most dishonest business out there and installing HVAC is one of the worst jobs and it's almost impossible to find guys that can do it right.

It's a license to steal especially when it gets hot and humid.

Thats depressing.

 

[jayfromfla]

A capacitor you are right - easy fix.

My unit is 18 year old and have changed the capacitor 3 times

 

[temery]

I'm in the HVAC industry for one of the larger FL companies.

Most dishonest business out there and installing HVAC is one of the worst jobs and it's almost impossible to find guys that can do it right.

It's a license to steal especially when it gets hot and humid.

Are there mini split that can be installed by the homeowner?

 

[Conndog]

We are putting in a mini split system for a/c and heat in our upstairs: 3 small bedrooms, hawway and a bathroom. We are in colder climate in New Hampshire north of Keene. We are Taking out the old cast iron radiators (5) which are steam heat, part of reason is to get rid of visible pipes going upstairs, also to improve efficiency and create zoned heat. To account for really cold temps when mini split isn't efficient, we are using secondary system, it's a propane combi-vent boiler that will 1) replace electric water heater but also 2) make hot water for mini split system to draw heat from during the coldest weather (20 degrees or less, not sure exact temp).
The cost scares me- quote we had was $22,000. Need to investigate more, this may also include (it better include for that price) installing ventilation in both bathrooms we have that currently have none. We will ask about price too because that's too much, didn't know you could negotiate. As it is, the insulation we also are putting in everywhere costs about the same ballpark amount.
One question I have, we aren't doing a/c downstairs. Even if the a/c is only upstairs, won't it still cool rest of house, or at least make it more comfortable & less humid?

 

[huskyinfl]

Are there mini split that can be installed by the homeowner?

I am not familiar with CT code but you should be able to. still need to pull a permit and abide by local codes & have an inspection.

Check with local bldg department they will tell you real quick.

Helps to be really technical - have gauges understand electric. You may need to upgraded your panel which requires electrical permit some times.

We occasionally install mini splits people buy online - usually only when it's slow because it's not as profitable as we like.

 

[uconnfan68]

I am not familiar with CT code but you should be able to. still need to pull a permit and abide by local codes & have an inspection.

Check with local bldg department they will tell you real quick.

Helps to be really technical - have gauges understand electric. You may need to upgraded your panel which requires electrical permit some times.

We occasionally install mini splits people buy online - usually only when it's slow because it's not as profitable as we like.

Appreciate the professional advice you have given. I’m contemplating a change from multiple window units to something easier for me. Might be able to do central air, no existing ductwork, but open attic and full cellar access. But those wall units intrigue me.

 

[huskyinfl]

@Conndog for that type of money you should have been handed a head load calculation on the spot during your sales call.

It's impossible to answer without that data. This will take into account the orientation, windows, insulation, etc.

A guess would be no that it would not cool the down stairs. It would run and run because they are built for a certain size of area.

Another piece of advice when buying - try to get a look inside the van - see if it is clean and organized - this will let you know if the company takes inventory seriously. If they don't they are passing on the cost of their inefficient behavior to you.

 

[auror]

We are putting in a mini split system for a/c and heat in our upstairs: 3 small bedrooms, hawway and a bathroom. We are in colder climate in New Hampshire north of Keene. We are Taking out the old cast iron radiators (5) which are steam heat, part of reason is to get rid of visible pipes going upstairs, also to improve efficiency and create zoned heat. To account for really cold temps when mini split isn't efficient, we are using secondary system, it's a propane combi-vent boiler that will 1) replace electric water heater but also 2) make hot water for mini split system to draw heat from during the coldest weather (20 degrees or less, not sure exact temp).
The cost scares me- quote we had was $22,000. Need to investigate more, this may also include (it better include for that price) installing ventilation in both bathrooms we have that currently have none. We will ask about price too because that's too much, didn't know you could negotiate. As it is, the insulation we also are putting in everywhere costs about the same ballpark amount.
One question I have, we aren't doing a/c downstairs. Even if the a/c is only upstairs, won't it still cool rest of house, or at least make it more comfortable & less humid?

As FL husky said, cooling upstairs only is tough because heat wants to reach equilibrium, so will spread throughout the house. Cold air is more dense, so will fall a bit, but your A/C unit will just run incessantly when the upstairs keeps rising temp.

 

[ctkaiser]

I think I'll keep buying non name brand 5000 btu window units as they go on sale for half price in the local grocery stores in August here in CT. Light enough to install and uninstall easily. These prices for central air are wild. I know if you're in the South you need it but wow what a budget breaker.

 

[Conndog]

I know we need more info from contractors and we'll ask for sure. One question is about reassigning where the mini-split heads go. We have 4 or 5 heads, assuming they can go anywhere, maybe we can put a couple downstairs to get A/C down there. We just don't want it to look out of place in 200 yr old home.
The other easy fix is to put up shades to block sun in first place and keep house from heating up so much. I bet a little of that will go a long way.
I get the point of heat going up and if a/c is only upstairs, then risk is the units will always be running. But, wouldn't whole house seem more comfortable if the humidity is reduced thru a/c? Even if temp is warmer downstairs, if overall the air is dryer, wouldn't we be able to tolerate it better? Or, is it still the same, the a/c units would be running & running? We could always program mini-split to be on only certain times of day too.
FWIW, we have solar panels on roof with room to add more.

 

[storrsroars]

I put in American Standard ( both furnace and A/C) 2 years ago. Works great. Much better than my older system. Where do you live?

My brother does a lot of HVAC work in Ffld Cty area, speaks highly of American Standard, which is a name more synonymous with urinals than a/c. Generally lower priced than Trane or Lenox but as good. I went with with Trane when I replaced two years ago, and that was strictly for the name as we'd planned on selling the house (unfortunately still here and will be for at least 2-3 more years) but it's really same system as American Standard, just not as stylish vis a vis outside package. Anyway, my brother walked me through options and tips on what the installer needed to do, saved me at least a grand if not more. If you're in Danbury area, I may be able to hook you up. Not sure if he's looking for more work right now.

 

[noeynox]

My 2 cents, when we were getting solar, our furnace crapped out. I needed a central a.c. unit as well. I wanted to roll it into solar loan, which was 0.99 for ten 10 years, and I was pressed against the calendar for the tax rebate. I didn't do my due diligence as a result I ended up with a decent regal furnace and what reviews tell me will be a crappy York system. Total price for new furnace and central a.c unit installed was 8400. I went with a contractor recommended by the solar company after I got 1 HVAC guy quote me 3 systems ranging from 17k, for traditional unit to 24k for unit using a heat pump. That guy was recommended by a friend but I feel he must have scraped her.

I use a wood stove insert as supplemental heating source as well.

I sorta regret not doing my due diligence with more calm and patience but that York unit while near the bottom of the rankings on energy efficiency, is replacing a unit over 25 years old which should result in a considerable savings in of itself.

 

[warbler1055]

I would like to replace my hvac the builder put in 20 years ago. It's a rheems systems which is still kicking. But I read that most systems were designed for about 15 years longevity. Any real good and reliable hvac contractor in or near Madison?

 

[sledog]

So far the proposals for a 4 ton run from $7 - 11k. Go figure.

 

[MadDogRevival]

I think I'll keep buying non name brand 5000 btu window units

If your only consideration is cool, dehumidified air, then low-quality window A/Cs from Home Cheapo are the way to go. People don't buy mini-splits because they are the most affordable option to condition room air, they buy them, in lieu of window units, because:

They don't require install and uninstall every 6 months forever in multiple rooms.
They don't leave gaps in the window install through which bugs enter.
They aren't a very loud mood-killer constantly running in the background of every room and rattling like 72 buick going down a country dirt road in March.
They don't look like @55 hanging out of the windows of your house.
They are substantially more efficient than a window A/C unit, thereby saving electric every time they are turned on.
They efficiently produce heat, thereby allowing for a double function and room by room heating.

Apples to Oranges, unless you just want fruit, in which case buy the one that's cheaper.

 

[MadDogRevival]

Just an update - I'm about to pull the trigger on a minisplit system. A Friederich 33,000 BTU system, which is getting close to the largest size they make these things. Have a buddy who works for an HVAC company who is getting it for me for just under 2 grand. It has an inverter (important) and a variable speed compressor so it is very efficient even at lower loads. Will be using it to cool/heat our 1800 square foot main level, which is really well insulated. It is probably oversized, but at that price point, and with the inverter, there is really no reason not to go big - it should be able to heat down to 5 degrees, which is all but a handful of days around here.
Install should be very simple - hole in wall - hang inside unit, run lines to outside unit, which is on small slab, run 220 to outside unit. Probably a full day to install. Will advise after it is put in. My buddy says I'm going to be blown away by the performance of the unit.