#8 Oregon @ #15 Oregon St - 12/13/20

[domerduck]

I hope you not on the asterisk (*) band wagon this year too. That I have already heard enough of that anyone who wins a conference championship or national championship this season will have a illegitimate title because of COVID and that a (*) should apply to the teams success. I dont subscribe to that type of thinking. To say that any losses on the floor or recruiting deficiencies is due to COVID won't hold up as an excuse. I don't think Coach Roberts will use that as an excuse with Colorado currently up 67 to 41 over the Utes.

So your saying practice restrictions were more harsh in Corvallis and that is a free pass? You also say OSU does not care about sports? Disagree, OSU is just as paassionate as Oregon fans about their teams.

You are entitled to your opinion. You know what is really terrible about Gov. Brown. Not letting the states NAIA schools practice with the same opportunities as the big guys if they have the ability to.

Opinion: Oregon should let us play sports, too

The women's basketball teams at Oregon State and University of Oregon both opened their seasons last week, but schools like Oregon Tech have been unable to even practice during the governor's two-week freeze, write Abby Kreiser and Kristin Farrell. But the student-athletes at Oregon Tech are...

www.oregonlive.com

Why are the Division I programs being given the OK to play, but the schools at the National Association of Intercollegiate Athletics level have been put on pause? Our time and experience are just as important and just as valid as theirs.

So don't throw a pity party for Oregon or especially Oregon State on Covid excuses. They at least can play.

I totally agree that Oregon and Oregon State have it better than all the other schools in Oregon (including the other 2 D1 schools UP & PSU) as Brown has created a mess for our sports across the board as well as our high schools. My only reference point was responding to whether Rueck was reloading vs rebuilding in your previous post and feel he is still relaoading, but the pandemic slowed, him and his team down a little more than Graves. As I exactly said "he's not complaining" so no asterisk in my mind, nor pity party. Don't know where you got that.from my post. It was not my intention.

I also was not judging the fact that the Oregon State fans care about their sports as much as Oregon fans. I do believe and the facts support that Oregon's athletic budget is much greater than OSU's which is what I tried to say.. I believe that budget affects things and options for the athletes, Sorry I didn't mean to get you upset, as I said OSU "be in the mix by tourney time". Since I live in Corvallis, taught 11 years at OSU, and have 2 degrees from U of O, I love both schools. I sure miss going to Gill Colliseum and Matt Court. I went to several games at both venues before the shutdown last year and many over the years when the crowds were much smaller.

 

[Figurehead]

I totally agree that Oregon and Oregon State have it better than all the other schools in Oregon (including the other 2 D1 schools UP & PSU) as Brown has created a mess for our sports across the board as well as our high schools. My only reference point was responding to whether Rueck was reloading vs rebuilding in your previous post and feel he is still relaoading, but the pandemic slowed, him and his team down a little more than Graves. As I exactly said "he's not complaining" so no asterisk in my mind, nor pity party. Don't know where you got that.from my post. It was not my intention.

I also was not judging the fact that the Oregon State fans care about their sports as much as Oregon fans. I do believe and the facts support that Oregon's athletic budget is much greater than OSU's which is what I tried to say.. I believe that budget affects things and options for the athletes, Sorry I didn't mean to get you upset, as I said OSU "be in the mix by tourney time". Since I live in Corvallis, taught 11 years at OSU, and have 2 degrees from U of O, I love both schools. I sure miss going to Gill Colliseum and Matt Court. I went to several games at both venues before the shutdown last year and many over the years when the crowds were much smaller.

Don't discount the difficulty of the trip up to Washington and Washington state. Sweep those two and then we will revisit the reload verses rebuild discussion.

Besides the opinion of a few OSU fans I know of believe a 8th place finish in the Pac-12 is in the works, Again, finish in the top four and reload it is. Fifth or lower = rebuilt

 

[domerduck]

Don't discount the difficulty of the trip up to Washington and Washington state. Sweep those two and then we will revisit the reload verses rebuild discussion.

Besides the opinion of a few OSU fans I know of believe a 8th place finish in the Pac-12 is in the works, Again, finish in the top four and reload it is. Fifth or lower = rebuilt

Wait a second.!!! Top 4???? Last season they ended up in 6th place as you might remember the top 6 PAC12 teams were all ranked. I'd say if they end up top half of the conference like last year, it's a reload. If they are in the bottom half I agree with you. I also agree with you they got to take care of sweeping the Washington schools the next 2.

 

[WestCoast]

Oregons St. weakness this season has been defending the outside shots not defending in the paint.

Oregon State has shown several relative weaknesses this season during its initial five games. I agree that an inability to effectively defend the three-pointer has been evident and is reflected in that its opponents are shooting nearly 37% from beyond the arc so far. The Beavs are also shooting poorly as a team from distance as compared to recent years.

OSU's relative dominance on the boards has disappeared so far this season. The Beavs have been among the nation's best rebounding differential teams during the past five seasons. They are a very average rebounding team now and give up far too many second shots to their opponents.

Lots of stuff that needs fixing right now in Corvallis.

 

[Figurehead]

Wait a second.!!! Top 4???? Last season they ended up in 6th place as you might remember the top 6 PAC12 teams were all ranked. I'd say if they end up top half of the conference like last year, it's a reload. If they are in the bottom half I agree with you. I also agree with you they got to take care of sweeping the Washington schools the next 2.

Not according to Stanford or UCONN standards. Their reload standards and expectations are different , I dont think they can get a sweep at up in Washington, likely a split.

 

[Shades]

 

[domerduck]

Not according to Stanford or UCONN standards. Their reload standards and expectations are different , I dont think they can get a sweep at up in Washington, likely a split.

Don't understand the reference. Nobody has lived up to UConn's standards given their 11 championships. But my guess is Geno is unhappy he hasn;t won it all since Sewart left with her 4 in a row. Given that referece the only reload option is getting another Stewart. Maybe Paige will be that.

As for Stanford they've been great since Tara has coached her way to the most wins ever. Yet they haven't won it all since 94 so the reload is a little lower than UConn's. Now the bigger deal is after dominating the PAC by winning almost all the conference championships, they fell short the last 6 straight years which have been won by the 2 Oregon schools. PAC12 is now the best conference in the conference and Tara led the way, but Scott challened it to raise the std and Kelly is taking it even farther. It will be fun to see wgo will win it this year.

 

[DefenseBB]

Wow, people now thinking that OSU can't sweep the 2 Washington schools? Yikes...

One thing I would offer up is "evolution". I think @domerduck is a bit misleading the narrative. Regular season champion has been a 5 year drought for Stanford but they have won 2 of the 5 PAC12 Tournaments. They also last won it all in 1992 (and 1990, not 1994). Oregon-2 and OSU-1. Since Kelly brought Sabrina to Oregon, he significantly improved that team as evidenced by the jump in points per game, assists per game and high assist to Turnovers ratio. That philosophy has carried over into this year which includes his top recruiting class. Stanford, likewise has upped it's recruiting efforts, not that they were lacking per se before but with #3 Brink, #39 PG Van Gytenbeek this past year, #1 Jones, #15 Prechtel, #19 Belibi, to augment what she had, Tara has stepped up her game and their passing stats this year are phenomenal compared to prior years- very UConn and Oregon like.

I did some analysis on the last 5 years of data for both Oregon and Oregon State and to me, there clearly shows two programs heading in different directions. First, let's talk philosophy so we are understanding the starting point.
Scott prides himself on defense, low scoring games, use the shot clock and run set plays. Hence, OSU has average 90 less assists per year and the A/TO ratio is 1.17 to the Ducks 1.46. Kelly is more up tempo and ball movement and likes guard play as evidence by his Gonzaga and St. Mary's teams. More passing, more buckets, less turnovers equals greater success. What makes it worse for Scott is Slocum was phenomenal in the assists and A/TO ration compared to the rest of his team. She had 1.97 and 1.58 ratios the past two years compare to the team ration of 1.01 without her. So while GoForth is a nice guard, she is not a facilitator. The offense is even more stagnant than it was. No wonder Slocum left.

Scott's last PG he recruited was #63 Goodman who is a Senior now. That doesn't cut it when going against Stanford, Oregon, UCLA and now Arizona. Scott's highest recruits are almost always Post players-21 Aquino, 20 Brown, 43 Jones, 10 Beers and 26 Corosdale. He needs to revamp his strategy.

I plan on a thread showing the disparity of top teams with respect to their passing and success and what their last 5 year trend has been and Oregon State's is down, while Oregon was up, Baylor, UConn, ND, Louisville and Maryland, all who show great A/TO ratios and NCAAT success.

 

[Figurehead]

Wow, people now thinking that OSU can't sweep the 2 Washington schools? Yikes...

One thing I would offer up is "evolution". I think @domerduck is a bit misleading the narrative. Regular season champion has been a 5 year drought for Stanford but they have won 2 of the 5 PAC12 Tournaments. They also last won it all in 1992 (and 1990, not 1994). Oregon-2 and OSU-1. Since Kelly brought Sabrina to Oregon, he significantly improved that team as evidenced by the jump in points per game, assists per game and high assist to Turnovers ratio. That philosophy has carried over into this year which includes his top recruiting class. Stanford, likewise has upped it's recruiting efforts, not that they were lacking per se before but with #3 Brink, #39 PG Van Gytenbeek this past year, #1 Jones, #15 Prechtel, #19 Belibi, to augment what she had, Tara has stepped up her game and their passing stats this year are phenomenal compared to prior years- very UConn and Oregon like.

I did some analysis on the last 5 years of data for both Oregon and Oregon State and to me, there clearly shows two programs heading in different directions. First, let's talk philosophy so we are understanding the starting point.
Scott prides himself on defense, low scoring games, use the shot clock and run set plays. Hence, OSU has average 90 less assists per year and the A/TO ratio is 1.17 to the Ducks 1.46. Kelly is more up tempo and ball movement and likes guard play as evidence by his Gonzaga and St. Mary's teams. More passing, more buckets, less turnovers equals greater success. What makes it worse for Scott is Slocum was phenomenal in the assists and A/TO ration compared to the rest of his team. She had 1.97 and 1.58 ratios the past two years compare to the team ration of 1.01 without her. So while GoForth is a nice guard, she is not a facilitator. The offense is even more stagnant than it was. No wonder Slocum left.

Scott's last PG he recruited was #63 Goodman who is a Senior now. That doesn't cut it when going against Stanford, Oregon, UCLA and now Arizona. Scott's highest recruits are almost always Post players-21 Aquino, 20 Brown, 43 Jones, 10 Beers and 26 Corosdale. He needs to revamp his strategy.

I plan on a thread showing the disparity of top teams with respect to their passing and success and what their last 5 year trend has been and Oregon State's is down, while Oregon was up, Baylor, UConn, ND, Louisville and Maryland, all who show great A/TO ratios and NCAAT success.

Agree with all you said . Not sure if there is much more to add which goes right into the reload verses rebuild argument. It is more than saying “This is the height we can put out on the floor and that will solve everything” I question whether Rueck has had a assistant as good as Mark Campbell since Mark had left for Oregon. Mark does a lot of work for Oregon and Kelly closes the deal. Not saying Kelly is doing nothing but Mark is a great assistant and I am just wildly guessing heir apparent. I don’t see Graves as a guy coaching for years later. But that is my own opinion

 

[domerduck]

Wow, people now thinking that OSU can't sweep the 2 Washington schools? Yikes...

One thing I would offer up is "evolution". I think @domerduck is a bit misleading the narrative. Regular season champion has been a 5 year drought for Stanford but they have won 2 of the 5 PAC12 Tournaments. They also last won it all in 1992 (and 1990, not 1994). Oregon-2 and OSU-1. Since Kelly brought Sabrina to Oregon, he significantly improved that team as evidenced by the jump in points per game, assists per game and high assist to Turnovers ratio. That philosophy has carried over into this year which includes his top recruiting class. Stanford, likewise has upped it's recruiting efforts, not that they were lacking per se before but with #3 Brink, #39 PG Van Gytenbeek this past year, #1 Jones, #15 Prechtel, #19 Belibi, to augment what she had, Tara has stepped up her game and their passing stats this year are phenomenal compared to prior years- very UConn and Oregon like.

I did some analysis on the last 5 years of data for both Oregon and Oregon State and to me, there clearly shows two programs heading in different directions. First, let's talk philosophy so we are understanding the starting point.
Scott prides himself on defense, low scoring games, use the shot clock and run set plays. Hence, OSU has average 90 less assists per year and the A/TO ratio is 1.17 to the Ducks 1.46. Kelly is more up tempo and ball movement and likes guard play as evidence by his Gonzaga and St. Mary's teams. More passing, more buckets, less turnovers equals greater success. What makes it worse for Scott is Slocum was phenomenal in the assists and A/TO ration compared to the rest of his team. She had 1.97 and 1.58 ratios the past two years compare to the team ration of 1.01 without her. So while GoForth is a nice guard, she is not a facilitator. The offense is even more stagnant than it was. No wonder Slocum left.

Scott's last PG he recruited was #63 Goodman who is a Senior now. That doesn't cut it when going against Stanford, Oregon, UCLA and now Arizona. Scott's highest recruits are almost always Post players-21 Aquino, 20 Brown, 43 Jones, 10 Beers and 26 Corosdale. He needs to revamp his strategy.

I plan on a thread showing the disparity of top teams with respect to their passing and success and what their last 5 year trend has been and Oregon State's is down, while Oregon was up, Baylor, UConn, ND, Louisville and Maryland, all who show great A/TO ratios and NCAAT success.

Thx for the facts as you are correct the Stanford NC drought is aince 92 not 94 as my top of the head, senior citizen memory got wrong. Still the fact is Stanford hasn't been the PAC12 regular season champion since 2013/2014 season after being 1st for 14 straight years and 1st in the PAC in every year but 3 since 1989. Scott's team lead by an awesome Point Guard (Sidney Wiese) broke the streak and won 3 in a row and Oregon led by Sabrina won the next 3. I know they won a couple tourneys like they lost a few between 89 and 2014, but my basic point still stands.

You are correct that Scott needs a point guard and I hope Aleah steps up more this year in future games with Sasha. Still I believe this year Oregon & Stanford are well ahead in talent over OSU as well as every other PAC12 team including Zona & UCLA, both very good worthy teams. We will see where they all end up, but OSU still can make it to their 5th straight sweet 16 tourney team by the end of the year . That doesn't even include last year's non tourney season where they end ranked 14th in the country.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Scott's highest recruits are almost always Post players-21 Aquino, 20 Brown, 43 Jones, 10 Beers and 26 Corosdale. He needs to revamp his strategy.

Tweet! Foul. You're skipping Pivec and Goforth, and with von Oelhoffen and Kampschroeder on the way next year this is not nearly as lopsided as you are suggesting.

 

[jonson]

Good point. But, from my perspective, none of these very talented players is really a point guard (and I'd include Goodman as well), and that is where Rueck seems to me to have come up short. Slocum was, I suppose, but she apparently wasn't a good/happy fit. Adding a talented distributor/ball handler to the mix, instead of or alongside Goforth et al. would be a major plus imo.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Good point. But, from my perspective, none of these very talented players is really a point guard (and I'd include Goodman as well), and that is where Rueck seems to me to have come up short. Slocum was, I suppose, but she apparently wasn't a good/happy fit. Adding a talented distributor/ball handler to the mix, instead of or alongside Goforth et al. would be a major plus imo.

I was just pointing out guard/wing recruits, wasn't specifying PG.

I think you are correct. Wiese still by far the best PG Rueck has had in Corvallis.

 

[Figurehead]

Good point. But, from my perspective, none of these very talented players is really a point guard (and I'd include Goodman as well), and that is where Rueck seems to me to have come up short. Slocum was, I suppose, but she apparently wasn't a good/happy fit. Adding a talented distributor/ball handler to the mix, instead of or alongside Goforth et al. would be a major plus imo.

I said it before. He needs a Hailey Van Lith or Paopao type player.

As a totally unrelated side note. Taylor Mikesell is shooting . 18 of 30 for 60% from three-point range through five games, the best mark in the nation among players with at least 20 attempts. That is just nasty

 

[Anchor Town]

Wow, people now thinking that OSU can't sweep the 2 Washington schools? Yikes...

One thing I would offer up is "evolution". I think @domerduck is a bit misleading the narrative. Regular season champion has been a 5 year drought for Stanford but they have won 2 of the 5 PAC12 Tournaments. They also last won it all in 1992 (and 1990, not 1994). Oregon-2 and OSU-1. Since Kelly brought Sabrina to Oregon, he significantly improved that team as evidenced by the jump in points per game, assists per game and high assist to Turnovers ratio. That philosophy has carried over into this year which includes his top recruiting class. Stanford, likewise has upped it's recruiting efforts, not that they were lacking per se before but with #3 Brink, #39 PG Van Gytenbeek this past year, #1 Jones, #15 Prechtel, #19 Belibi, to augment what she had, Tara has stepped up her game and their passing stats this year are phenomenal compared to prior years- very UConn and Oregon like.

I did some analysis on the last 5 years of data for both Oregon and Oregon State and to me, there clearly shows two programs heading in different directions. First, let's talk philosophy so we are understanding the starting point.
Scott prides himself on defense, low scoring games, use the shot clock and run set plays. Hence, OSU has average 90 less assists per year and the A/TO ratio is 1.17 to the Ducks 1.46. Kelly is more up tempo and ball movement and likes guard play as evidence by his Gonzaga and St. Mary's teams. More passing, more buckets, less turnovers equals greater success. What makes it worse for Scott is Slocum was phenomenal in the assists and A/TO ration compared to the rest of his team. She had 1.97 and 1.58 ratios the past two years compare to the team ration of 1.01 without her. So while GoForth is a nice guard, she is not a facilitator. The offense is even more stagnant than it was. No wonder Slocum left.

Scott's last PG he recruited was #63 Goodman who is a Senior now. That doesn't cut it when going against Stanford, Oregon, UCLA and now Arizona. Scott's highest recruits are almost always Post players-21 Aquino, 20 Brown, 43 Jones, 10 Beers and 26 Corosdale. He needs to revamp his strategy.

I plan on a thread showing the disparity of top teams with respect to their passing and success and what their last 5 year trend has been and Oregon State's is down, while Oregon was up, Baylor, UConn, ND, Louisville and Maryland, all who show great A/TO ratios and NCAAT success.

There are huge issues in Corvallis if they cant sweep the Washington schools. Should win by 20.