#6 Iowa vs #1 Maryland - 3/13/21

[Matthew1589]

I said it before and I will say again, the Big10 other than Maryland is littered with 25-40 ranked type teams and also, this Iowa team is not nearly as talented other than Clark, drop off, Czinano, drop off, Warnock. Lisa needs to get more talent to support Caitlin and get a defensive minded assistant to improve this porous defense.

Clark against any elite type defenses could struggle particular if the passes she sends to these teammates don't translate into hoops. Clark is still a phenomenal player but just quite "Paige like" ....

More talent is on the way for Iowa in the next two classes, 3 in '21 and 3 in '22 (so far). Iowa fills all their needs with a strong '21 class then adds frontcourt athleticism and shooting in the '22 class. Iowa will never be a lock down defensive team but the defense will get better next season.

 

[eebmg]

That's great for Czinano but it doesn't change that Clark has played insane minutes and fatigue is likely a big reason why she didn't seem as "on" today. It's likely the only time in her collegiate or pro career where she'll play 4 games of 35 minutes all in a row.

She torched Maryland for 34 last time they met, so a less than stellar showing today doesn't indicate she'll play poorly against better defensive teams.

I think Iowa had quite a bit of in game rest in their zone defense.

 

[DeeHusky]

When Did Mimi Collins start taking 6 threes and making half of them? Maryland could be a team to watch in the tourney

 

[bballnut90]

When Did Mimi Collins start taking 6 threes and making half of them? Maryland could be a team to watch in the tourney

She looked like a guard/wing on them with a really quick release.

 

[JordyG]

Not Bueckers if she declares early, but potentially over Boston. She's the perfect prototype to be a star in the league and is a match up nightmare.

There isn't a chance in hell that Clark goes before Boston. The Association is littered with good guards while good posts are nigh on impossible to find.

 

[JordyG]

More talent is on the way for Iowa in the next two classes, 3 in '21 and 3 in '22 (so far). Iowa fills all their needs with a strong '21 class then adds frontcourt athleticism and shooting in the '22 class. Iowa will never be a lock down defensive team but the defense will get better next season.

Really? They have 2 posts coming next year, which so far is their strength, though admittedly they'll need them in the future. And exactly who from the top 100 do they have coming in 2022? What this team needs are wings and another guard. Even then, in order to get past Maryland and win at the Big Boogie they'll need to play defense.

 

[azfan]

That's great for Czinano but it doesn't change that Clark has played insane minutes and fatigue is likely a big reason why she didn't seem as "on" today. It's likely the only time in her collegiate or pro career where she'll play 4 games of 35 minutes all in a row.

She torched Maryland for 34 last time they met, so a less than stellar showing today doesn't indicate she'll play poorly against better defensive teams.

Wonder how many minutes Czinano played. If same as Clark, perhaps the freshman might try Czinano's fitness program?

 

[bballnut90]

Wonder how many minutes Czinano played. If same as Clark, perhaps the freshman might try Czinano's fitness program?

I get that you're trying to undermine Clark but it'd be better to just come out and own it directly.

 

[sivad40]

There isn't a chance in hell that Clark goes before Boston. The Association is littered with good guards while good posts are nigh on impossible to find.

Jackie Young and Asia Durr was drafted ahead of Teaira McCowan.

 

[bballnut90]

There isn't a chance in hell that Clark goes before Boston. The Association is littered with good guards while good posts are nigh on impossible to find.

I was talking about Diamond Robinson. Clark can declare in 2024 at the earliest unless she graduates early, but I think CC would be picked before Boston considering her game parallels Ionescu and she's finding greater success at a younger age than Sabrina did.

And the league is loaded with outstanding frontcourt players--Stewart, Wilson, Cambage, Fowles, Parker, EDD, Charles, Griner, Nneka, Jonquel Jones, etc. Elite guards who can consistently score from anywhere and create for others are harder to find. It's the reason why Ionescu was considered such a desired prospect and why both Clark and Bueckers will be extremely coveted. The PG spot has been the weakest in USA basketball's pipeline for the past 20+ years with only a couple of standouts.

 

[azfan]

I get that you're trying to undermine Clark but it'd be better to just come out and own it directly.

Not trying to undermine her - just observing. And I don't think that Clark would use fatigue as an excuse. Most elite and successful athletes thrive with use, want to play and often perform very well at the end of long stretches of use. I suspect Clark is of this type and wants to offer no excuse.

I was reflecting on your observation.

 

[JordyG]

Jackie Young and Asia Durr was drafted ahead of Teaira McCowan.

Proving my point. McCowan was never the post Boston is and will be.

 

[donalddoowop]

Maryland is a poor defensive team that plays at an accelerated pace, exactly what any offensive player including Clark would love. I'd say a good opportunity would be if Clark played a great game against Stanford or Baylor.

I agree. I mentioned the Maryland game because winning it would put Iowa in the finals with a chance to win the B10 conference tourney. That would have looked good to those who vote on her resume.

 

[Matthew1589]

Really? They have 2 posts coming next year, which so far is their strength, though admittedly they'll need them in the future. And exactly who from the top 100 do they have coming in 2022? What this team needs are wings and another guard. Even then, in order to get past Maryland and win at the Big Boogie they'll need to play defense.

Addison O'Grady is a post, AJ Ediger is a PF who really improved this season and is the highest ranked, and Sydney Affolter on the wing will be a good one, depending on the recruiting service I've seen all 3 in the top 60. For '22 depends on the service also but Jada Gyamfi 6'2 SF/F, Hannah Stuelke 6'2 SF/F I've seen both ranked, and 5'9 sharp shooter Taylor McCabe.

 

[JordyG]

I was talking about Diamond Robinson. Clark can declare in 2024 at the earliest unless she graduates early, but I think CC would be picked before Boston considering her game parallels Ionescu and she's finding greater success at a younger age than Sabrina did.

And the league is loaded with outstanding frontcourt players--Stewart, Wilson, Cambage, Fowles, Parker, EDD, Charles, Griner, Nneka, Jonquel Jones, etc. Elite guards who can consistently score from anywhere and create for others are harder to find. It's the reason why Ionescu was considered such a desired prospect and why both Clark and Bueckers will be extremely coveted. The PG spot has been the weakest in USA basketball's pipeline for the past 20+ years with only a couple of standouts.

You've named mostly forwards, not posts. Cambage, Fowles, Griner, Charles and maybe Wilson are posts in the league The others don't play like posts and don't consider themselves post. People who play like posts are rare in BB, and Boston plays and considers herself to be a post. The pro game is a pick and roll league that favors forwards and posts to do most of the scoring. But you're right in that we'll never really know since they'll never be in the same draft. However, look at the top 25 players in the WNBA and you'll see 3 posts listed including Wilson. There are up to 3 times the number of PG's listed. It's not close. As for the paucity of good PG's that can score, Vandersloot, Sabrina, Gray, DT, CD, and Bird aren't too bad.

 

[JordyG]

You've named mostly forwards, not posts. Cambage, Fowles, Griner, Charles and maybe Wilson are posts in the league The others don't play like posts and don't consider themselves post. People who play like posts are rare in BB, and Boston plays and considers herself to be a post. The pro game is a pick and roll league that favors forwards and posts to do most of the scoring. But you're right in that we'll never really know since they'll never be in the same draft. However, look at the top 25 players in the WNBA and you'll see 3 posts listed including Wilson. There are up to 3 times the number of PG's listed. It's not close. As for the paucity of good PG's that can score, Vandersloot, Sabrina, Gray, DT, CD, and Bird aren't too bad.

...and Meessman.

 

[JordyG]

Addison O'Grady is a post, AJ Ediger is a PF who really improved this season and is the highest ranked, and Sydney Affolter on the wing will be a good one, depending on the recruiting service I've seen all 3 in the top 60. For '22 depends on the service also but Jada Gyamfi 6'2 SF/F, Hannah Stuelke 6'2 SF/F I've seen both ranked, and 5'9 sharp shooter Taylor McCabe.

Your optimism is admirable.

 

[Matthew1589]

Your optimism is admirable.

I've seen them all play, they fit Iowa style to a tee and provide what is needed and upgrade to what is being lost too. Good things are in store for the Iowa program that is for certain, especially when nobody thought what they accomplished this year was even possible.

 

[bballnut90]

You've named mostly forwards, not posts. Cambage, Fowles, Griner, Charles and maybe Wilson are posts in the league The others don't play like posts and don't consider themselves post. People who play like posts are rare in BB, and Boston plays and considers herself to be a post. The pro game is a pick and roll league that favors forwards and posts to do most of the scoring. But you're right in that we'll never really know since they'll never be in the same draft. However, look at the top 25 players in the WNBA and you'll see 3 posts listed including Wilson. There are up to 3 times the number of PG's listed. It's not close.

Even so, right there are 5 elite level posts in a league with 12 players. What makes having a post more significant than having elite level forwards? Seattle has won 2 of the last 3 titles without a true center, and in the 2019 Finals we saw two teams that predominantly used lineups with elite forwards (EDD, Meesseman, A. Thomas, Jonquel Jones) instead of centers. LA made back to back finals without a true center. Before that it was Indiana without a true center.

I agree finding a traditional low post center who isn't dying to be a perimeter shooter is rare, but I don't see what makes that type of prospect so coveted unless they're the next Brittney Griner which Boston isn't. Most of the elite forwards listed fill the center role defensively and play excellent post defense. The best teams in the W usually aren't centered around having a big center down low.

I'd rather take an extremely dynamic point guard who can get in the lane, consistently score, put teammates in spots to score and rain threes. Right now the only player with that skill set is Ionescu and she's played 2 games so far.

 

[JordyG]

Even so, right there are 5 elite level posts in a league with 12 players. What makes having a post more significant than having elite level forwards? Seattle has won 2 of the last 3 titles without a true center, and in the 2019 Finals we saw two teams that predominantly used lineups with elite forwards (EDD, Meesseman, A. Thomas, Jonquel Jones) instead of centers. I agree finding a traditional low post center who isn't dying to be a perimeter shooter is rare, but I don't see what makes that type of prospect so coveted unless they're the next Brittney Griner. Most of the elite forwards listed fill the center role defensively and play excellent post defense.

Again, not, there are 3 elite posts in the Association and twice as many elite guards. And from what I've seen, Boston is the best post to leave college since Griner. Yes, elite PG's are hard to find, but in the last 3 years Sabrina, CD, Gray, and Julie Allemand have entered the league. How many elite posts have entered? One, and that would be Wilson. This also may have been Fowles last year, and Griner isn't getting younger.

Now your argument that teams have been winning championships without posts is a good one and the game has somewhat moved toward a more versatile, positionless game. But when you're the Storm and have such a talented player as Stewie it isn't necessary to have a post. However a player like Boston that can dominate inside and stretch to the arc is a rare player indeed. Plus as has been shown, in international play and the Olympics, big posts become important.

 

[bballnut90]

Again, not, there are 3 elite posts in the Association and twice as many elite guards. And from what I've seen, Boston is the best post to leave college since Griner. Yes, elite PG's are hard to find, but in the last 3 years Sabrina, CD, Gray, and Julie Allemand have entered the league. How many elite posts have entered? One, and that would be Wilson. This also may have been Fowles last year, and Griner isn't getting younger.

Now your argument that teams have been winning championships without posts is a good one and the game has somewhat moved toward a more versatile, positionless game. But when you're the Storm and have such a talented player as Stewie it isn't necessary to have a post. However a player like Boston that can dominate inside and stretch to the arc is a rare player indeed. Plus as has been shown, in international play and the Olympics, big posts become important.

I agree it's rarer to have a big physical center like Boston who has good perimeter touch, but I don't see how that's advantageous to having an elite forward who can score down low and from the perimeter too while playing great interior defense like any of the players I listed. What's the advantage of having a center in that role vs. a forward?

I wouldn't consider CD/Allemand elite level point guards. Gray went pro in 2014....perhaps you're thinking of Carter? If so, Carter is a dynamic scorer but doesn't facilitate well. I wouldn't consider her an elite PG either. The only elite PG prospects who've entered the league this past decade IMO are Vandersloot, Diggins, Jefferson and Ionescu. Chelsea Gray worked her way up into that echelon but she sort of came out of nowhere after an injury plagued collegiate career. I think Jefferson would've been great but injuries have tarnished her pro career. Every year the All-WNBA teams are hyper competitive for forwards and center slots while guard spots usually have 1-2 players with much weaker stats than several forwards/centers who didn't make the cut. Or sometimes they'll label a SF (Moore/McCoughtry) as a guard for the All-WNBA spot to make room for more deserving forwards. Having an elite level facilitator who can also score has been an important factor for most title teams (4 for Whalen, 4 for Bird, 3 for Taurasi) and I think Clark can fill that role perfectly while also being a great bail out player.


And I wouldn't expect WNBA GMs to take international play into consideration when drafting for their respective team. Just my 2 cents.

 

[sweetspot]

South Carolina's offensive spacing is bad this year and has really hurt Boston's shot selection.... but she won't be the unquestioned top pick if she shoots 50% the year she becomes draft eligible like she did this year.

Miller's listed at 6'3" and is the fastest player on the floor most games. She could be an even better on defense than she is on offense when she comes out. But she's got a long way to go too

 

[Sched234]

Might be a hot take but I could see Diamond Miller being the #1 draft pick in 2023. She is really really good.

Her sophomore jump has been incredible. She’s become one of the best players in the country and we’re not talking about it. How many guards put up 17 points on 50% shooting with 6 rebounds and a healthy block average? (Well, her teammate Owusu does, as well).

Miller’s skill is here now but her advantage as a safe WNBA bet is her pro body. 6’3”, lean, lanky.

 

[bballnut90]

Her sophomore jump has been incredible. She’s become one of the best players in the country and we’re not talking about it. How many guards put up 17 points on 50% shooting with 6 rebounds and a healthy block average? (Well, her teammate Owusu does, as well).

Miller’s skill is here now but her advantage as a safe WNBA bet is her pro body. 6’3”, lean, lanky.

Agreed. She scores in so many ways too--fast break, driving to the basket, pull up jumpers, 3 pointers, you name it. Outstanding ball handler and has the athleticism to become a lockdown defender. Very unselfish passer too, she had 7 assists today and 6 yesterday. She reminds me of a bigger Angel McCoughtry or a Dewanna Bonner type player. I'm just shocked no one is talking about her in the national picture.

 

[Sched234]

Agreed. She scores in so many ways too--fast break, driving to the basket, pull up jumpers, 3 pointers, you name it. Outstanding ball handler and has the athleticism to become a lockdown defender. Very unselfish passer too, she had 7 assists today and 6 yesterday. She reminds me of a bigger Angel McCoughtry or a Dewanna Bonner type player. I'm just shocked no one is talking about her in the national picture.

She’s the X-factor for Maryland in the tournament because she’s the player that might be able to get a bucket against anybody. You could say the same about Owusu, but Diamond’s height makes her incredibly tough to guard.

You know, for as much talent as UConn, SC, Stanford, and Oregon have stockpiled, it’s really difficult to imagine a 2022 Maryland team with a upperclassmen core of Owusu, Miller, Reese, and Collins not winning a title.