2025 WNBA Regular Season | Page 64 | The Boneyard

2025 WNBA Regular Season

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GamecockFam said:
I agree 100%! It's kind of crazy how flawed NY has looked without Stewie or Jonquel. Meesseman seems to have brought some stability but they aren't winning it all without Stewie or Jonquel on the court.

It's another feather in Reeve's cap that she hasn't had the same problems as NY with her best player out.
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Agreed. With yesterday's loss, NY is tied with Atlanta for 2nd in the WNBA. Who had that on their bingo card for this season? As much as I'm a fan of several players on the Dream's roster, I know I didn't! 😂
 
The deacon said:
In a game between non-contending Dallas and another barely hanging on by its fingertips, Washington, it was fun watching very possibly the three best rookies competing today.

On this occasion at least, Paige had to settle for third best, as Kiki (23 and 10) and Sonia (18, 5 and 6) carried much of the load for the Mystics.

Paige had 17 points, but just one field goal in the second half.

We can hope that trio has the chance to play much more meaningful games in years ahead. They're all top-shelf players.
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Tale of two halves for Citron and Bueckers. You noted Paige B. had a great first half. Soni had one point in the first stanza but went for 17 in the second half. BTW, And both played 32 minutes for their respective teams. Knock on wood, both teams appear to have selected keepers in the backcourt.

Iriafen did her damage in some 23 minutes, while Emily Engstler spelled both forward spots, with Austin out of the lineup. (I'm still not convinced the Mystics traded the right forward).

Back to rookies: Quinerly played well off the bench for the Wings, as well.
 
cancontent said:
Like Courtney Williams said during the game, everyone has to step it up while Collier is out. The Lynx's roster without Collier isn't exactly chopped liver. And for how dominant NY is supposed to be, they've had their fair share of games where they've lost when they shouldn't.
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No argument from me, but I'd like to point out:

Their starting lineup last night has three first-round draft picks, but two of those (Courtney Williams and Alanna Smith) played for four different teams in the previous four seasons, so while they were first-rounders, they were castoffs when the Lynx got them. Shepard and Carleton were second-rounders, and Shep has spent two seasons out of the W. KMac is the only first-round pick who's been in a reasonably steady situation.

Off the bench, Hiedemann and Carrington were second rounders, and while Kliundikova was first-round, she'd only spent parts of two seasons in the W, and that was many years ago.

I wonder how many teams have lower-round draft picks as half their contributors?
 
Bigboote said:
No argument from me, but I'd like to point out:

Their starting lineup last night has three first-round draft picks, but two of those (Courtney Williams and Alanna Smith) played for four different teams in the previous four seasons, so while they were first-rounders, they were castoffs when the Lynx got them. Shepard and Carleton were second-rounders, and Shep has spent two seasons out of the W. KMac is the only first-round pick who's been in a reasonably steady situation.

Off the bench, Hiedemann and Carrington were second rounders, and while Kliundikova was first-round, she'd only spent parts of two seasons in the W, and that was many years ago.

I wonder how many teams have lower-round draft picks as half their contributors?
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I appreciate you expanding on the point, however it doesn't negate the fact that this is a very capable team with or without Collier at this point. The post I replied to gave the impression that this roster isn't capable of such, which seemed to dismiss what this roster can do. Considering this is pretty much the same roster from last year, it's hard for me to see the Lynx being unable to compete in tough games without Collier for a few of them.
 
azfan said:
Looks like the Dream may own the million dollar coach.

Extremely important game in the valley of the Sun with playoff seedng implications. Atlanta is on a 14-day road trip and challenged to win on the road ... a hard thing.

In their last two meetings the Dream thrashed the million dollar coach's squad first in Phoenix on July 23rd and then in Atlanta on August 1st. So it was very important for the Mercury to show they could hang with Atlanta.

Early in the broadcast Ann Drysdale and her partner felt like Atlanta coach was the leader for COY.

In a game of runs during gut check time Atlanta wins their third straight over the Merc and the presumptive COY from Phoenix isn't looking like a sure thing.

Takeaways

Phoenix did get the better Westbelt sister

Hillman is a revelation and a force

AT should be the presumptive MVP

Merc just aren't ready for prime time

And the wisdom of Cheryl Reeve.... Winning on the road is hard so you need to protect your home court. Nate was unable to do a hard thing and lead his team to road win in Atlanta and was unable to protect the home court twice against Atlanta.

Atlanta has thrashed the million dollar coach and his squad twice in the valley of the Sun.

Really a great game. Atlanta seized the opportunity with the Liberty loss and struggles without Stewie. The Merc were unable to do so.

Wonder what Howard said? This was a great opportunity after two technicals late in the game for the Merc to seize control, but .... The Merc announcers are talking about self-inflicted wounds. I am suspecting in film the million dollar coach will focus on self-inflicted wounds.

The Merc began a three-game road trip in Las Vegas and the pressure only increases for Nate.
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Up to this point in the season, I'm inclined to go along with your analysis that Kathryn has performed better than Maddy. There are a number of reasons stemming from the fact that although both Westbelds are rookies, Kathryn has plenty of international professional experience since she left Notre Dame in spring of 2018. Maddy is a true rookie, having gone from campus to Chitown immediately.

Also, Kat got a chance to play -- primarily because of injuries -- early and often for the Merc and the "million dollar coach." While her stats didn't scream, what did was Phoenix's overall record. She, Lexi Held, Kitija Laska and Aloa Makani were all making contributions while Sabally and Thomas could step up as focal points and/or when needed.

(BTW, I find it interesting that Phoenix has stumbled when it changed it's look and playing time focus with 'Copper and now Bonner in the lineup.) As noted in other posts, sometimes the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts and vice versa. Phoenix seems to be proving both sides of the story).

Back to the Westbelds (note the "d"): Maddy was buried behind the rebounding phenom known as Angel Reese and saw rare stints. With Reese out, Westbeld is getting increased PT and even though they got blown out by Indy, the younger Westbeld played nearly 22 minutes and scored 10 points on 4-8 shooting (2-4 from three). She's starting to get a feel for how to work in whatever constitutes Chicago's half-court offense and adapting her outside-in approach to it. She'll get better the more time she plays. Stay tuned.
 
Bigboote said:
I wonder how many teams have lower-round draft picks as half their contributors?
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I got you, Valkyries style (most of whom have started multiple games this season):
Tip Hayes (2nd round, 14th pick) * edited - originally thought she was a first rounder!
Mo Billings (2nd round, 15th pick)
Kate Martin (2nd round, 18th pick)
Kaitlyn Chen (3rd round, 33rd pick)
Stephanie Talbot (3rd round, 33rd pick) ** subsequently waived
Temi Fagbenle (3rd round, 35th pick)
Kayla Thornton (undrafted)
Ceci Zandalasini (undrafted)
Janelle Salaun (undrafted)

So yeah, Leite, Burton, Amihere, and Rupert are our only first rounders.
 
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TheFarmFan said:
I got you, Valkyries style (most of whom have started multiple games this season):
Mo Billings (2nd round, 15th pick)
Kate Martin (2nd round, 18th pick)
Kaitlyn Chen (3rd round, 33rd pick)
Stephanie Talbot (3rd round, 33rd pick) ** subsequently waived
Temi Fagbenle (3rd round, 35th pick)
Kayla Thornton (undrafted)
Ceci Zandalasini (undrafted)
Janelle Salaun (undrafted)

So yeah, Leite, Burton, Rupert and Hayes are our only first rounders.
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Hayes was actually a 2nd rounder.

Was Salaun ever a draft eligible player? I saw she signed a training camp contract this year but it was prior to the draft. I don't recall ever hearing her name as a potential draftee.
 
TheFarmFan said:
I got you, Valkyries style (most of whom have started multiple games this season):
Mo Billings (2nd round, 15th pick)
Kate Martin (2nd round, 18th pick)
Kaitlyn Chen (3rd round, 33rd pick)
Stephanie Talbot (3rd round, 33rd pick) ** subsequently waived
Temi Fagbenle (3rd round, 35th pick)
Kayla Thornton (undrafted)
Ceci Zandalasini (undrafted)
Janelle Salaun (undrafted)

So yeah, Leite, Burton, Rupert and Hayes are our only first rounders.
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Amihere was a first rounder as well.
 
TheFarmFan said:
I got you, Valkyries style (most of whom have started multiple games this season):
Mo Billings (2nd round, 15th pick)
Kate Martin (2nd round, 18th pick)
Kaitlyn Chen (3rd round, 33rd pick)
Stephanie Talbot (3rd round, 33rd pick) ** subsequently waived
Temi Fagbenle (3rd round, 35th pick)
Kayla Thornton (undrafted)
Ceci Zandalasini (undrafted)
Janelle Salaun (undrafted)

So yeah, Leite, Burton, Rupert and Hayes are our only first rounders.
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Your list really puts everything the Valkyries have accomplished into perspective. Not only do they have so few first-rounders, but they also don't have any of the "big names" of the last decade or so—it's not like they only have three first-rounders, but those three are A'ja, Sabrina, and Aliyah Boston, for instance. This is a team of upstarts and journeywomen supported by a passionate fanbase. I love to see it!
 
I don't understand the underlying narrative in the above conversation that first rounders are not team players. Can someone explain to me what I am missing?
 
GamecockFam said:
MVP seems to be a three woman race with Collier waaay out in front but I don't think it is impossible for Wilson or AT to catch up if they have a magical end to the regular season, especially while Phee is out.

MVP rankings IMO (threw in a 4-5 for kicks):
1. Collier
2. Wilson
3. AT
4. K. Mitchell
5. Stewie
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Not so sure I'd say Napheesa is way out in front, except in the minds of so many so-called experts who had her pegged as the MVP before the season had started.

A'ja is statistically right with Napheesa and, the way she's played lately, is quite possibly going to finish ahead of Napheesa by the numbers.

AT is right where she was two seasons ago, offering a unique, three-pronged case for her to be MVP (which I believe she deserved back then). She wouldn't win a congeniality contest, so likely I'll predict Napheesa will get the edge come selection time, depending on when she returns.

As for your 'kicks' category, GamecockFam, some Fever fans might consider Aliyah Boston a better choice than Kelsey, and, knowing it won't be a popular choice here on the Boneyard, I'd have Sabrina ahead of Stewie as the Liberty's MVP.
 
GamecockFam said:
I don't understand the underlying narrative in the above conversation that first rounders are not team players. Can someone explain to me what I am missing?
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Oh, that wasn't my understanding at all. I thought the point being made was that it's all the more impressive/surprising when a team finds success without being loaded with lottery picks and other first-round talent. (Like looking at the starting line-ups of the Aces or the Liberty, you'd expect them to be good, but you look at the Valks and you wouldn't expect as much.)
 
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cancontent said:
Like Courtney Williams said during the game, everyone has to step it up while Collier is out. The Lynx's roster without Collier isn't exactly chopped liver. And for how dominant NY is supposed to be, they've had their fair share of games where they've lost when they shouldn't.
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And Sabrina shoots too much, this year she is starting to get like Loyd. She should never be taking more shots then Stewie, and even before Stewie got hurt she was taking 2 more shots per game.
 
Jonathan14 said:
Oh, that wasn't my understanding at all. I thought the point being made was that it's all the more impressive/surprising when a team finds success without being loaded with lottery picks and other first-round talent. (Like looking at the starting line-ups of the Aces or the Liberty, you'd expect them to be good, but you look at the Valks and you wouldn't expect as much.)
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Yep, that was my intent with the first post on the subject. For the Lynx and Valks to be playing as well as they are with the (originally perceived) quality of players is a testament to Coaches Reeve and Nakase, as well as the execs (including Reeve) who put the teams together. (I'm not sure what the difference is between general manager and president of basketball operations wrt Reeve, but I'm sure she had a hand in the makeup of the team.)
 
Bigboote said:
No argument from me, but I'd like to point out:

Their starting lineup last night has three first-round draft picks, but two of those (Courtney Williams and Alanna Smith) played for four different teams in the previous four seasons, so while they were first-rounders, they were castoffs when the Lynx got them. Shepard and Carleton were second-rounders, and Shep has spent two seasons out of the W. KMac is the only first-round pick who's been in a reasonably steady situation.

Off the bench, Hiedemann and Carrington were second rounders, and while Kliundikova was first-round, she'd only spent parts of two seasons in the W, and that was many years ago.

I wonder how many teams have lower-round draft picks as half their contributors?
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Williams was not a cast off when she got to Minnesota. She was a starter for the teams she played for
 
The deacon said:
Not so sure I'd say Napheesa is way out in front, except in the minds of so many so-called experts who had her pegged as the MVP before the season had started.

A'ja is statistically right with Napheesa and, the way she's played lately, is quite possibly going to finish ahead of Napheesa by the numbers.

AT is right where she was two seasons ago, offering a unique, three-pronged case for her to be MVP (which I believe she deserved back then). She wouldn't win a congeniality contest, so likely I'll predict Napheesa will get the edge come selection time, depending on when she returns.

As for your 'kicks' category, GamecockFam, some Fever fans might consider Aliyah Boston a better choice than Kelsey, and, knowing it won't be a popular choice here on the Boneyard, I'd have Sabrina ahead of Stewie as the Liberty's MVP.
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A'ja's numbers are climbing, Collier differentiates herself for her team going 27-5 where Vegas is 18-14. Team success matters, and if you have a team that's far ahead of the rest of the pack with a clear standout, more often than not the standout wins. Only thing holding Collier back is if she misses too many games.

I'd probably put AT at number 2. She's having a heck of a season. 16/9/9 with 54% FG and solid team success puts her in the conversation. Again, Minnesota is 27-5 where Phoenix is 19-12, but I'd probably have her #2 right now.

I'd put A'ja at 3, Allisha Gray at #4 and Ionescu at 5. Mitchell/Boston/Plum in the next tier are having really strong seasons but not MVP worthy.
 
bballnut90 said:
A'ja's numbers are climbing, Collier differentiates herself for her team going 27-5 where Vegas is 18-14. Team success matters, and if you have a team that's far ahead of the rest of the pack with a clear standout, more often than not the standout wins. Only thing holding Collier back is if she misses too many games.

I'd probably put AT at number 2. She's having a heck of a season. 16/9/9 with 54% FG and solid team success puts her in the conversation. Again, Minnesota is 27-5 where Phoenix is 19-12, but I'd probably have her #2 right now.

I'd put A'ja at 3, Allisha Gray at #4 and Ionescu at 5. Mitchell/Boston/Plum in the next tier are having really strong seasons but not MVP worthy.
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I would argue that Allisha Gray's numbers have somewhat stagnated since the All-star break, whereas Mitchell's are climbing (with exception to the most recent Mercury game) which is why I chose Mitchell over Gray. Either way, Gray and Mitchell are the top two SG in the league this season, so you really cannot go wrong with picking either. Ionescu is good but she needs to up her efficiency and consistency to be in serious contention (same with Plum concerning efficiency).
 
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The deacon said:
Not so sure I'd say Napheesa is way out in front, except in the minds of so many so-called experts who had her pegged as the MVP before the season had started.

A'ja is statistically right with Napheesa and, the way she's played lately, is quite possibly going to finish ahead of Napheesa by the numbers.

AT is right where she was two seasons ago, offering a unique, three-pronged case for her to be MVP (which I believe she deserved back then). She wouldn't win a congeniality contest, so likely I'll predict Napheesa will get the edge come selection time, depending on when she returns.

As for your 'kicks' category, GamecockFam, some Fever fans might consider Aliyah Boston a better choice than Kelsey, and, knowing it won't be a popular choice here on the Boneyard, I'd have Sabrina ahead of Stewie as the Liberty's MVP.
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I want to put Boston up there but she faces similar issues as AT where some of the lesser weighted metrics say she should be up there despite not putting up 20 points each night.
 
baggerbob said:
And Sabrina shoots too much, this year she is starting to get like Loyd. She should never be taking more shots then Stewie, and even before Stewie got hurt she was taking 2 more shots per game.
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Not a fan of Sabrina or Clark so I really don't care. With the new contract would like to see Stewie, JJ, and Messeman go to Dallas to play with Paige.
 
Reporting in from Ballhalla where we got the win and Violet the Valkyrie made her birthday debut. She needs to work on her layups, but dang can she cut it on the dance floor...
violet.webp

Ellie, we're coming for you, girl.
 
TRest said:
Ya think?
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I probably set myself up from a talent perspective (given Bueckers was #1 and Citron #3), but......
  • Some choices just don't work out, from the individual to the fit with the team (that doesn't appear to be the case(s) here).
  • Hoping for good health for both on a consistent basis. Both are coming off long college seasons.
 
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cancontent said:
@TheFarmFan Did they explain this when Violet was introduced to the fans? Learned something new about ravens today. 🙂

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The flock together in unkindnesses, or possibly conspiracies.

I’d assumed the mascot was a chicken. When I saw the dance, I was thinking, they do the Funky Chicken in some arenas, they HAVE the Funky Chicken in Ballhala.
 
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