2021 New England Patriots Thread

[Husky25]

Being a leader? He has like 10 games under his belt and his coach told him what to do.

The Patriots are 9-4 in 2021 and Jones has started all of them. So, this is demonstrably false.

That game was 100% Belichick and Belichick knowing his safe rookie QB couldn't outplay Josh Allen in that stadium, in that spotlight, in that weather. So he didn't let his QB throw the ball.

So much for best rookie QB ever?

Yes, Jones is a leader. He threw the ball 3 times while playing an entire regulation football game, didn't b1t(h and complain, and appeared to pretty much embraced his roll. Anything for team, even when it hurts your personal production level. That is a leadership characteristic.

I've already acknowledged that the reason for the win was game plan, with which the weather had more to do than anything else. I wouldn't be worried about the spotlight on a guy who started 17 games at Alabama and won a national title. I also doubt Belichick was concerned about Jones necessarily outplaying Allen, seeing as quarterbacks don't play directly against each other. They play against the defense and the Patriots D was huge last night. If Harry gets away from that punt like he should have, the game would have never been in doubt...but he didn't...

Sure, this game is points against the title of best rookie QB ever, but I' say you are lying if you thought it would have unfolded like it did when this discussion started. Be that as it may, Patriots fans still have every reason to be encouraged. He'll still probably win Rookie of the Year and hopefully (for his sake) go to a Super Bowl or two during his career. For Patriots fans' sake, hopefully within the first 5 years, before he potentially prices himself out of New England.

I was wrong about Jones (no big shakes, given that I do not get paid as an NFL personnel guy or college scout). Looks like the Patriots were not.

 

[Deepster]

The Patriots are 9-4 in 2021 and Jones has started all of them. So, this is demonstrably false.



Yes, Jones is a leader. He threw the ball 3 times while playing an entire regulation football game, didn't b1t(h and complain, and appeared to pretty much embraced his roll. Anything for team, even when it hurts your personal production level. That is a leadership characteristic.

I've already acknowledged that the reason for the win was game plan, with which the weather had more to do than anything else. I wouldn't be worried about the spotlight on a guy who started 17 games at Alabama and won a national title. I also doubt Belichick was concerned about Jones necessarily outplaying Allen, seeing as quarterbacks don't play directly against each other. They play against the defense and the Patriots D was huge last night. If Harry gets away from that punt like he should have, the game would have never been in doubt...but he didn't...

Sure, this game is points against the title of best rookie QB ever, but I' say you are lying if you thought it would have unfolded like it did when this discussion started. Be that as it may, Patriots fans still have every reason to be encouraged. He'll still probably win Rookie of the Year and hopefully (for his sake) go to a Super Bowl or two during his career. For Patriots fans' sake, hopefully within the first 5 years, before he potentially prices himself out of New England.

I was wrong about Jones (no big shakes, given that I do not get paid as an NFL personnel guy or college scout). Looks like the Patriots were not.

I am beyond impressed at what Belichick cooked up last night. That could/should have been a passing of the torch for Buffalo in taking over this division for the next decade and he turned that stadium into a mausoleum.

That said? Any QB in the league, starting or backup, could have executed that gameplan and won that game.

 

[Waquoit]

Jones threw for 67% in the game, below his career average.

 

[Husky25]

I am beyond impressed at what Belichick cooked up last night. That could/should have been a passing of the torch for Buffalo in taking over this division for the next decade and he turned that stadium into a mausoleum.

That said? Any QB in the league, starting or backup, could have executed that gameplan and won that game.

I'm actually less impressed about the design of the game plan, than I am that they had the fortitude to stay with it. There were a number of longer yardage situations, particularly going left to right, with the wind, where I was sure Jones was going to throw, but just handed off to Bolden.

 

[Husky25]

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

I was yelling at the TV when they were handing off on 3rd and 15 but, yeah, they seemed to be absolutely confident in what they could do defensively against Buffalo. Part of me likes the "look, just so there's no doubt, we are absolutely telling you what we're going to do here, and we do not think you can stop us" aspect of it.

Speaking of which, you rarely see a team as rattled after a game as the Bills were, from McDermott down.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I was yelling at the TV when they were handing off on 3rd and 15 but, yeah, they seemed to be absolutely confident in what they could do defensively against Buffalo. Part of me likes the "look, just so there's no doubt, we are absolutely telling you what we're going to do here, and we do not think you can stop us" aspect of it.

Speaking of which, you rarely see a team as rattled after a game as the Bills were, from McDermott down.

Same. I knew they could throw, yet it seems that once they got that 8 point lead, Bill knew that with Buffalo needing two scores the only way they'd get them is if the Patriots coughed up the ball. Indeed, he was right. If not for a barely muffed point, Buffalo doesn't get their one touchdown. Jones and others confirmed as much this week. That 2 point conversion changed the game. The decision not to throw had nothing to do with Jones.

I'm not going to pretend that Jones has the arm Allen has, I'm not sure anybody in the league has the arm strength Allen has. Maybe Rodgers 15 years ago.

 

[Husky25]

Same. I knew they could throw, yet it seems that once they got that 8 point lead, Bill knew that with Buffalo needing two scores the only way they'd get them is if the Patriots coughed up the ball. Indeed, he was right. If not for a barely muffed point, Buffalo doesn't get their one touchdown. Jones and others confirmed as much this week. That 2 point conversion changed the game. The decision not to throw had nothing to do with Jones.

I'm not going to pretend that Jones has the arm Allen has, I'm not sure anybody in the league has the arm strength Allen has. Maybe Rodgers 15 years ago.

Not just two scores. Two touchdowns.

Even though Tyler Bass kicked the ball ten rows into the stands on the fly to start the game, I actually thought they were playing up the weather a bit too much early on. Then I saw the b-roll (for lack of better term) of the snow and wind two hours before kick off and how Bass said he was only comfortable from extra point range or closer.

I didn't realize he meant the old extra point spot.

 

[Deepster]

Same. I knew they could throw, yet it seems that once they got that 8 point lead, Bill knew that with Buffalo needing two scores the only way they'd get them is if the Patriots coughed up the ball. Indeed, he was right.

What makes you know they "could" throw?

 

[HuskyHawk]

What makes you know they "could" throw?

Because the whole team talked about it, and the reasons why they didn't. It wasn't because they couldn't. Had they been behind they would have.

 

[Deepster]

Because the whole team talked about it, and the reasons why they didn't. It wasn't because they couldn't. Had they been behind they would have.

Revisionist history.

 

[ClifSpliffy]

'appropo of nothing, i found it fascinating that Air Force won a blowout game the other day, scoring near 50, by running the ball like 68 times, and never throwing even one pass. outstanding, and a massive punking for the theory that a qb throwing pretty 50 yard strikes to a sideline cone, or to the beer lady in section 109, is somehow 'the only way to go.'

awkward. hey, how did mac do?
yup, this really happened.

 

[HuskyHawk]

'appropo of nothing, i found it fascinating that Air Force won a blowout game the other day, scoring near 50, by running the ball like 68 times, and never throwing even one pass. outstanding, and a massive punking for the theory that a qb throwing pretty 50 yard strikes to a sideline cone, or to the beer lady in section 109, is somehow 'the only way to go.'

awkward. hey, how did mac do?
yup, this really happened.

Notwithstanding @Deepster’s tears, what Bill does, has always done, is contrarian. He was a 3-4 guy when 4-3 dominated. As outside linebackers, popularized by guys like LT who played for him were in demand, he shifted to 4-3.

In the current game, WR are wildly overvalued, and RB undervalued. 25 years ago it was the opposite. Buffalo plays nickel 90% of the tIme, their D is built to stop the pass. So…don’t pass. In an era of 3 or 4 WR sets, he has 2 RBs and often 2 TE sets. If defenses are pass focused, run on them. But flexible players and schemes mean he will switch at any moment to counter what you do.

 

[Dove]

Hmm. 1 pass with 30 seconds to go in the 1st half.

He’s got 100% completion percentage!!!!!

Note to self...Deepster's good at math.

 

[Husky25]

Notwithstanding @Deepster’s tears, what Bill does, has always done, is contrarian. He was a 3-4 guy when 4-3 dominated. As outside linebackers, popularized by guys like LT who played for him were in demand, he shifted to 4-3.

In the current game, WR are wildly overvalued, and RB undervalued. 25 years ago it was the opposite. Buffalo plays nickel 90% of the tIme, their D is built to stop the pass. So…don’t pass. In an era of 3 or 4 WR sets, he has 2 RBs and often 2 TE sets. If defenses are pass focused, run on them. But flexible players and schemes mean he will switch at any moment to counter what you do.

Moneyball as applied to football.

 

[Husky25]

'appropo of nothing, i found it fascinating that Air Force won a blowout game the other day, scoring near 50, by running the ball like 68 times, and never throwing even one pass. outstanding, and a massive punking for the theory that a qb throwing pretty 50 yard strikes to a sideline cone, or to the beer lady in section 109, is somehow 'the only way to go.'

awkward. hey, how did mac do?
yup, this really happened.

Air Force runs the Triple Option.

When done correctly the option is extremely tough to stop, especially when Defenses are accustomed to seeing Gun & Run.

 

[kibblesnbits]

The Brady vs Belichick debate is coming back to an equilibrium recognition that it was both. The funny thing is that the people that were so eager to say it was all Brady after last season were probably the same ones that called him a “system quarterback” for years until his achievements became so great that they couldn’t deny it any more. Once he left he became even greater (I.e. the sole reason for the Pats’ success) because they wanted to believe their tormentors would fade away.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Moneyball as applied to football.

And he actually does it. They asked him several years ago why he went back to 4-3 and he said pass rushing OLB were too expensive and DT were undervalued. Then he and the league flipped back for the same reason and got Wilfork when NT we’re undervalued. Teams following the trends are always chasing a small, expensive pool of guys.

 

[huskypantz]

Notwithstanding @Deepster’s tears, what Bill does, has always done, is contrarian. He was a 3-4 guy when 4-3 dominated. As outside linebackers, popularized by guys like LT who played for him were in demand, he shifted to 4-3.

In the current game, WR are wildly overvalued, and RB undervalued. 25 years ago it was the opposite. Buffalo plays nickel 90% of the tIme, their D is built to stop the pass. So…don’t pass. In an era of 3 or 4 WR sets, he has 2 RBs and often 2 TE sets. If defenses are pass focused, run on them. But flexible players and schemes mean he will switch at any moment to counter what you do.

RB’s are not undervalued. They take a beating and aren’t worth committing much of your cap against. You need a stable of 2-4 serviceable backs and 2 need to be pass-game proficient. RB’s come out of college ready to play if they’re decent, which means they’re cheap in the late rounds. All that adds up to a lower valuation from their historical perspective.

 

[Husky25]

There is a Twitter rumor that the Jags are going to come hard after Josh McDaniels. I can't think of a worse place (culture/environment) in the NFL. Even the Jets and Washington are above Jacksonville. I've only driven through, but I hear the city is kind of a hole as well.

 

[HuskyHawk]

There is a Twitter rumor that the Jags are going to come hard after Josh McDaniels. I can't think of a worse place (culture/environment) in the NFL. Even the Jets and Washington are above Jacksonville. I've only driven through, but I hear the city is kind of a hole as well.

I saw that. I'm not sure I agree. They had a dominant defense just a few seasons ago. They did pretty well as an expansion team. The owner wants to win. They have Trevor Lawrence and some other pieces. I don't think they are are far off as their record suggests, which means they will have good draft position this year, won't need a QB and will have some talent on the roster.

 

[Deepster]

I’ll be very interested to watch Mac Jones this week. Coming off a bad game. Coming off a game a couple weeks ago where he only threw three passes against Buffalo and now playing that same team for the division title at home.

 

[boba]

I’ll be very interested to watch Mac Jones this week. Coming off a bad game. Coming off a game a couple weeks ago where he only threw three passes against Buffalo and now playing that same team for the division title at home.

The real question is whether the play calling defense and offense improves. They were unprepared for Indianapolis and Buffalo is hungry. Good coaching can hide any deficiencies of Jones.

 

[HuskyHawk]

The real question is whether the play calling defense and offense improves. They were unprepared for Indianapolis and Buffalo is hungry. Good coaching can hide any deficiencies of Jones.

I am more concerned that Stephenson is out and Harris is still coming back from that hamstring. Running game is limited. I’m expecting a close game. Jones isn’t high on my list of concerns at all.

 

[Deepster]

Safe to assume they’ve paused on engraving the Mac Jones “best rookie qb season ever” trophy.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Safe to assume they’ve paused on engraving the Mac Jones “best rookie qb season ever” trophy.

He wasn't great, but he certainly wasn't high on the list of problems either. Not forcing a single punt strikes me as a bigger concern. Offensive line was horrible early in the game as well. Josh Allen played an amazing game. Repeatedly turning nothing or negative plays into gains with feet & improvisational throws.

That's why the Jets took Wilson. The hope that he can be that sort of creative, improvisational player. Allen is just behind Mahomes right now in that category.

 

[boba]

He wasn't great, but he certainly wasn't high on the list of problems either. Not forcing a single punt strikes me as a bigger concern. Offensive line was horrible early in the game as well. Josh Allen played an amazing game. Repeatedly turning nothing or negative plays into gains with feet & improvisational throws.

That's why the Jets took Wilson. The hope that he can be that sort of creative, improvisational player. Allen is just behind Mahomes right now in that category.

It used to be that Belichick could hide some of the flaws or shortcomings of the defense with the play calling. It may be the talent of the opposition is that much better but it didn't happen Sunday. Better not lay any more eggs like that one or they will be watching the play-offs on TV.

 

[boba]

Tomorrow the last game of the season or do they move on? In my uninformed opinion, they need to contain Allen; no 15 yard dashes on 3rd and 10 deep in their own territory, force a punt or two in that cold. Likewise don't screw up when special teams is on the field, as it will likely be a battle between the two.

 

[Dove]

It's going to be bone-chilling. Bone-chilling.

 

[Deepster]

Looks like another 3 pass game plan for the best rookie qb ever.