2021 New England Patriots Thread

[HuskyHawk]

I thought that they’d have one of the top front 7s in the league after the draft and free agent signings. Barmore was projected to possibly be our pick at 15, can’t believe he fell to the 2nd round. I was more concerned with the CB position without Gilmore but the safeties with McCourty, Phillips and an improving Dugger are very good. Key has been JC Jackson stepping up to clear #1 corner status and Mills being solid. I assumed Mills was intended as a longer term replacement for McCourty. Maybe he was.

OL was expected to be superb, but then injuries hurt early in the season. Huge positive came out of that as they have been much better with Karras at LG and Onwenu as a swing tackle allowing the others to get some rest.

WR position and TE position are vastly upgraded. Bourne has really become a player. Stephenson is a beast. Was nice to see Smith finally playing well, he’s great after the catch. That leaves Mac, not much to say except he’s one of the best rookie starting QBs, probably ever. Admittedly, he’s on a great team and most 1st round rookie starters are on horrible teams. His numbers are better than Brady’s were in 2001.

 

[Deepster]

That leaves Mac, not much to say except he’s one of the best rookie starting QBs, probably ever. Admittedly, he’s on a great team and most 1st round rookie starters are on horrible teams. His numbers are better than Brady’s were in 2001.

Good lord.

 

[Waquoit]

Before this week, my brother hit the NE cover-Jets don't parlay 3 weeks in a row.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Good lord.

You disagree? Ranking The 15 Best Rookie Quarterbacks in NFL History

Looking at this list, he's been better than many of them. Through 12 games. Now some of those guys, Mariota, Griffin III and others, didn't have great careers. Prescott and Luck stand out on that list to me. RGIII was great. Marino, Cam, Wilson, Ben, all really good. Of course many great QBs didn't start as rookies, starting rookies is a more recent trend.

CMP	ATT	CMP%	YDS	AVG	TD	INT	LNG	RTG
268	381	70.3	2,850	7.5	16	8	75	97.1

Brady 2001 in 15 games

264

413

63.9

2,843

6.9

18

12

91

86.5

 

[Deepster]

You disagree? Ranking The 15 Best Rookie Quarterbacks in NFL History

Looking at this list, he's been better than many of them. Through 12 games. Now some of those guys, Mariota, Griffin III and others, didn't have great careers. Prescott and Luck stand out on that list to me. RGIII was great. Marino, Cam, Wilson, Ben, all really good. Of course many great QBs didn't start as rookies, starting rookies is a more recent trend.

CMP	ATT	CMP%	YDS	AVG	TD	INT	LNG	RTG
268	381	70.3	2,850	7.5	16	8	75	97.1

Brady 2001 in 15 games

264

413

63.9

2,843

6.9

18

12

91

86.5

Yes. I disagree. One of the best rookie quarterbacks "ever"? LOL.

Mac Jones and Zach Wilson have both played Houston, Atlanta, Tennessee and Carolina.

Jones = 892 yards, 5 TDs, 4 ints.
Wilson = 887 yards, 5 TDs, 4 ints.

Jones has looked really good. Safe, conservative game plan. Rely on their D. It's basically what the Giants did with Phil Simms in the Parcells/Belichick model. Let's not build a statue to him just yet...

 

[Husky25]

Yes. I disagree. One of the best rookie quarterbacks "ever"? LOL.

Mac Jones and Zach Wilson have both played Houston, Atlanta, Tennessee and Carolina.

Jones = 892 yards, 5 TDs, 4 ints.
Wilson = 887 yards, 5 TDs, 4 ints.

Jones has looked really good. Safe, conservative game plan. Rely on their D. It's basically what the Giants did with Phil Simms in the Parcells/Belichick model. Let's not build a statue to him just yet...

As far as rookie years go, considering most QBs "redshirt" during their 1st year? There is an argument. Wilson shouldn't be used to make it, though.

I understand the common opponent comparison, but it is only valid to a point. The only team slated to be playing in The Tournament out of that group is Tennessee, against whom Jones outperformed or equaled Wilson's clear outlier performance in every relevant category.

Versus potential playoff teams:
Jones: 106/151 (70.2%), 1,229 yards, 9 TDs, 2 INTs, 3-2 record
Avg:---21/30-----------, 246 yds, 1.8 TDs, 0.4 Ints, 1-2 record

Wilson: 46/77 (59.7%), 558 yards, 2 TDs, 5 INTs
Avg:----15/26--------, 186 yds, 0.7 TDs, 1.7 INTs

Jones has played 5 games vs potential playoff teams (TB, DAL, LAC, CLE, TEN), Wilson has played in three (2x NE, TEN), and missed games vs Cinci, Indy, and BUF.

Jones is in the discussion for overall NFL ROTY. Wilson's grade is Incomplete, at best.

 

[HuskyHawk]

As far as rookie years go, considering most QBs "redshirt" during their 1st year? There is an argument. Wilson shouldn't be used to make it, though.

I understand the common opponent comparison, but it is only valid to a point. The only team slated to be playing in The Tournament out of that group is Tennessee, against whom Jones outperformed or equaled Wilson's clear outlier performance in every relevant category.

Versus potential playoff teams:
Jones: 106/151 (70.2%), 1,229 yards, 9 TDs, 2 INTs, 3-2 record
Avg:---21/30-----------, 246 yds, 1.8 TDs, 0.4 Ints, 1-2 record

Wilson: 46/77 (59.7%), 558 yards, 2 TDs, 5 INTs
Avg:----15/26--------, 186 yds, 0.7 TDs, 1.7 INTs

Jones has played 5 games vs potential playoff teams (TB, DAL, LAC, CLE, TEN), Wilson has played in three (2x NE, TEN), and missed games vs Cinci, Indy, and BUF.

Jones is in the discussion for overall NFL ROTY. Wilson's grade is Incomplete, at best.

Agreed. This is not to say that Wilson won't become great. He has the tools. Josh Allen wasn't much as a rookie. Hell he's still learning and certain defenses have shut him down. Herbert only played due to injury and surprised people.

On pure numbers Jones is likely to be a top 10 rookie QB all time. Is he helped by being on a good team. Hell yes. But, as we knew before the draft, he's mentally ahead of the other QBs in this class in terms of recognition and decision making. Will they catch up and use superior athletic gifts to become better than he is? Who knows. I expect Jones to get stronger and faster, but he'll never be a runner like Fields or Lance.

 

[ClifSpliffy]

jets get punked again - wilson at #2, jones at #15. in fact, anyone who needed a qb in front of belicheck pick got punked. i mean, it's not like he was the qb at bama with a 75% completion rate and seven total int's in his career there. oh, wait, it is like that.
dude was/is cash moneh, and all the 'expert' qb picking schlubs got punked. by billy bell. again.
i admire excellence. mac is excellent. it's almost like bill is reunited with his son. great minds think alike.

 

[Husky25]

Agreed. This is not to say that Wilson won't become great. He has the tools. Josh Allen wasn't much as a rookie. Hell he's still learning and certain defenses have shut him down. Herbert only played due to injury and surprised people.

On pure numbers Jones is likely to be a top 10 rookie QB all time. Is he helped by being on a good team. Hell yes. But, as we knew before the draft, he's mentally ahead of the other QBs in this class in terms of recognition and decision making. Will they catch up and use superior athletic gifts to become better than he is? Who knows. I expect Jones to get stronger and faster, but he'll never be a runner like Fields or Lance.

I'm surprised Jones is playing as well as he is as a rookie. Granted, other than UConn (and sometimes Michigan when I can find them) I don't watch a significant amount of college football anymore. A game here or there, but it's not appointment viewing.

That said, one can't go by just stats for quarterbacks at these elite programs. Jones had it pretty easy at Alabama with the open offense, behind a 5 star offensive line, throwing to wide open receivers, against inferior talent (relatively speaking) playing soft zones. In the NFL, everyone is a 5 star player. The pocket collapses in about 3.2 seconds and the secondaries are just as fast, if not as sure-handed, as the receivers.

I thought he was a 2nd round pick, at best. I thought wrong.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I'm surprised Jones is playing as well as he is as a rookie. Granted, other than UConn (and sometimes Michigan when I can find them) I don't watch a significant amount of college football anymore. A game here or there, but it's not appointment viewing.

That said, one can't go by just stats for quarterbacks at these elite programs. Jones had it pretty easy at Alabama with the open offense, behind a 5 star offensive line, throwing to wide open receivers, against inferior talent (relatively speaking) playing soft zones. In the NFL, everyone is a 5 star player. The pocket collapses in about 3.2 seconds and the secondaries are just as fast, if not as sure-handed, as the receivers.

I thought he was a 2nd round pick, at best. I thought wrong.

That was my initial view. I wanted a guy with a cannon arm who could run all over and make plays. Mahomes or Josh Allen. So from this class, Wilson, Fields, Lance.

Then I watched videos of experts breaking down the QBs. Saw a few things. 1. Jones is more mobile than I thought, ahead of Brady for sure, behind those other guys. 2. He was under pressure quite a bit. SEC has almost all the top defenses in the college game and he also faced Clemson. 3. the analysts were really impressed with his accuracy to all parts of the field, the way he threw guys open and placed balls to avoid defenders. 4. analysts also praised his ability to move the defense, plays like the one I posted above that Orlovsky called "art" where he sees the backer and looks him off the route then delivers the ball. Its something even good NFL QBs aren't always great at.

So I changed my tune and hoped he'd fall to the Pats. Barmore falling was possibly even a bigger steal. I don't begrudge the Jets taking Wilson, I would have too. I think the 49ers screwed up and should have taken Fields or Jones. Trey Lance is the guy who should have gone 15th.

 

[Husky25]

Incidentally, the 1-2 record should be a few lines below where it is and attributed to Wilson.

 

[boba]

That was my initial view. I wanted a guy with a cannon arm who could run all over and make plays. Mahomes or Josh Allen. So from this class, Wilson, Fields, Lance.

Then I watched videos of experts breaking down the QBs. Saw a few things. 1. Jones is more mobile than I thought, ahead of Brady for sure, behind those other guys. 2. He was under pressure quite a bit. SEC has almost all the top defenses in the college game and he also faced Clemson. 3. the analysts were really impressed with his accuracy to all parts of the field, the way he threw guys open and placed balls to avoid defenders. 4. analysts also praised his ability to move the defense, plays like the one I posted above that Orlovsky called "art" where he sees the backer and looks him off the route then delivers the ball. Its something even good NFL QBs aren't always great at.

So I changed my tune and hoped he'd fall to the Pats. Barmore falling was possibly even a bigger steal. I don't begrudge the Jets taking Wilson, I would have too. I think the 49ers screwed up and should have taken Fields or Jones. Trey Lance is the guy who should have gone 15th.

FWIW the local sports radio thought the 49er's were taking Jones too. Lynch is a pretty good executive (and I am a very poor evaluator of football, talent, game planning, anything football) so he likely has good reason. I believe they were hoping for more from Jimmy G this year and hoped to keep Trey in the back pocket. They (49er's) are still in the hunt for a play-off spot so it wasn't that bad a pick.

 

[Deepster]

jets get punked again - wilson at #2, jones at #15. in fact, anyone who needed a qb in front of belicheck pick got punked. i mean, it's not like he was the qb at bama with a 75% completion rate and seven total int's in his career there. oh, wait, it is like that.
dude was/is cash moneh, and all the 'expert' qb picking schlubs got punked. by billy bell. again.
i admire excellence. mac is excellent. it's almost like bill is reunited with his son. great minds think alike.

It is waaaaaaay too early to make that statement. Mac Jones could easily become the next Alex Smith over time. A conservative short route "game manager" and Wilson could just as easily click and make a significant leap, even by year's end. Three garbage Jets QB's (White, Johnson, Flacco) have had really good games in this offense and Wilson a) is new and b) missed about a month with injury.

 

[Husky25]

It is waaaaaaay too early to make that statement. Mac Jones could easily become the next Alex Smith over time. A conservative short route "game manager" and Wilson could just as easily click and make a significant leap, even by year's end. Three garbage Jets QB's (White, Johnson, Flacco) have had really good games in this offense and Wilson a) is new and b) missed about a month with injury.

Alex Smith had a 16 year career, led three teams to the playoffs, and took the 49ers to the NFCCG. So much not to like there. Mac Jones is already ahead of the game as well by virtue of not being #1 overall and playing immediately. Smith didn't start from day 1.

Speaking of the 49ers. Know who else was a short route "game manager?" Joe Montana. The West Coast Offense was built on short/intermediate pass routes, check downs, and running the ball.

I can't tell if you are trying too hard or not hard enough.

 

[ClifSpliffy]

It is waaaaaaay too early to make that statement. Mac Jones could easily become the next Alex Smith over time. A conservative short route "game manager" and Wilson could just as easily click and make a significant leap, even by year's end. Three garbage Jets QB's (White, Johnson, Flacco) have had really good games in this offense and Wilson a) is new and b) missed about a month with injury.

'it is waaaaaaay too early to make that statement.'

no, it is not. kick back, and just watch the next few years.
appropo of nothing, i found it fascinating that Air Force won a blowout game the other day, scoring near 50, by running the ball like 68 times, and never throwing even one pass. outstanding, and a massive punking for the theory that a qb throwing pretty 50 yard strikes to a sideline cone, or to the beer lady in section 109, is somehow 'the only way to go.'
according to the evidence at hand, and for half a century, the jets have stunk, do stink, and, until proven differently, will continue to stink.
winning isn't everything, it's the only thing. a dish of cold logic is always the most nutritional item on the menu. mac's computer operates in a freezer, and matched with his more than adequate physical skills, will provide the template for a winning future for the pats. heck, they seem to be winning now. that was fast.
i particularly enjoyed that peyton super bowl winning season with the broncs where he didn't/couldn't throw a pass longer than eight feet cuz it wasn't necessary. to win.
tom terrific went to Tampa cuz he knew they had a good ol, and a stout d, so he wouldn't have to produce a billion points or a thousand passing yards every game to win. they did. smart dude.

 

[Deepster]

'it is waaaaaaay too early to make that statement.'

no, it is not. kick back, and just watch the next few years.
appropo of nothing, i found it fascinating that Air Force won a blowout game the other day, scoring near 50, by running the ball like 68 times, and never throwing even one pass. outstanding, and a massive punking for the theory that a qb throwing pretty 50 yard strikes to a sideline cone, or to the beer lady in section 109, is somehow 'the only way to go.'
according to the evidence at hand, and for half a century, the jets have stunk, do stink, and, until proven differently, will continue to stink.
winning isn't everything, it's the only thing. a dish of cold logic is always the most nutritional item on the menu. mac's computer operates in a freezer, and matched with his more than adequate physical skills, will provide the template for a winning future for the pats. heck, they seem to be winning now. that was fast.
i particularly enjoyed that peyton super bowl winning season with the broncs where he didn't/couldn't throw a pass longer than eight feet cuz it wasn't necessary. to win.
tom terrific went to Tampa cuz he knew they had a good ol, and a stout d, so he wouldn't have to produce a billion points or a thousand passing yards every game to win. they did. smart dude.

Where'd you get that crystal ball? Can I get one?

 

[Deepster]

Alex Smith had a 16 year career, led three teams to the playoffs, and took the 49ers to the NFCCG. So much not to like there. Mac Jones is already ahead of the game as well by virtue of not being #1 overall and playing immediately. Smith didn't start from day 1.

Speaking of the 49ers. Know who else was a short route "game manager?" Joe Montana. The West Coast Offense was built on short/intermediate pass routes, check downs, and running the ball.

I can't tell if you are trying too hard or not hard enough.

Alex Smith was a "fine" game manager who was a stopgap fill-in for a bunch of teams and the best thing you can say about him is he didn't hurt their chances when he was in.

The poster here is annointing Jones as maybe the best rookie QB ever. Wow. Bananaland.

 

[ClifSpliffy]

Where'd you get that crystal ball? Can I get one?

im guessin that this is what got to ya,
'according to the evidence at hand, and for half a century, the jets have stunk, do stink, and, until proven differently, will continue to stink.'
that's the one, that's gotta be the one.

 

[Deepster]

im guessin that this is what got to ya,
'according to the evidence at hand, and for half a century, the jets have stunk, do stink, and, until proven differently, will continue to stink.'
that's the one, that's gotta be the one.

Not one bit. I am a football fan before I’m a jets fan and watch pretty much 95% of games that are on via TNF SNF MNF and RedZone. I know the Jets are a laughingstock.

 

[Husky25]

The poster here is annointing Jones as maybe the best rookie QB ever. Wow. Bananaland.

He is saying He might be and presented an argument.

You are saying definitely not in the face of that argument.

 

[ClifSpliffy]

Not one bit. I am a football fan before I’m a jets fan and watch pretty much 95% of games that are on via TNF SNF MNF and RedZone. I know the Jets are a laughingstock.

nothing personal. it's not ur fault. like all of us, ur just a fan, tho iffn they made u the gm, the improvement would be rapid.

 

[Deepster]

nothing personal. it's not ur fault. like all of us, ur just a fan, tho iffn they made u the gm, the improvement would be rapid.

Nah. I have no clue how to build a team. I can however tell when the stink of the Jets has sunk someone for good though. Saleh has his work cut out for him the rest of this season if he wants any positive momentum to carry over to next year.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

The poster here is annointing Jones as maybe the best rookie QB ever. Wow. Bananaland.

Putting aside how cringeworthy it is when 60 year olds try to sound like Dave Portnoy, a quick google search revealed this link, so it's obviously not quite "bananaland."

Mac Jones by the numbers: Patriots rookie quarterback on pace to rewrite record books in Year One

Jones is having one of the best starts for a quarterback in NFL history

www.cbssports.com

I think the empirical evidence bears out that the two most important attributes in a successful NFL quarterback are accuracy and decision-making, and Jones excels at both of those things. The rest is almost entirely the organization, coaching, etc. that he lands in. Jones is well positioned there, too. He could have ended up in an organization like the JETS and all the accuracy and decision-making prowess in the world wouldn't save him. I think people who study the position agree that there is no such thing as a "can't miss NFL quarterback," but Jones has all the variables in the place to have a very good NFL career.

 

[Deepster]

He could have ended up in an organization like the JETS and all the accuracy and decision-making prowess in the world wouldn't save him. I think people who study the position agree that there is no such thing as a "can't miss NFL quarterback," but Jones has all the variables in the place to have a very good NFL career.

Gee. Maybe that point has something to do with the coach of the Jets vs the coach of the Pats....and not so much the amazing skills and excellence of Mac Jones so far. I mean, after all, the guy has made Brian Hoyer, Matt Cassell and a washed up Cam Newton look decent. I'll even say this....I was afraid the Pats were going to take Darnold and turn him around.

Let's see how tonight goes. Big game for the wunderkind.

 

[Deepster]

Hmm. 1 pass with 30 seconds to go in the 1st half.

He’s got 100% completion percentage!!!!!

 

[Waquoit]

The Bills dynasty didn't last very long.

 

[huskypantz]

What a game. Brilliant game plan by the Patriots.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Hmm. 1 pass with 30 seconds to go in the 1st half.

He’s got 100% completion percentage!!!!!

Agreed. It’s the reason they lo-

What? They won again?! They’ve got home field and a bye?!? What?

Let me drink them. Salty and delicious.

 

[Husky25]

That win was 100% game plan and was oddly compelling. Mac Jones' job was to turn around and give the ball to a runner. Not many young quarterbacks would be happy in that roll, but it looked like Jones embraced it. That is being a leader.

Oh, and the defense played outside their minds.

 

[Deepster]

That win was 100% game plan and was oddly compelling. Mac Jones' job was to turn around and give the ball to a runner. Not many young quarterbacks would be happy in that roll, but it looked like Jones embraced it. That is being a leader.

Oh, and the defense played outside their minds.

Being a leader? He has like 10 games under his belt and his coach told him what to do.

That game was 100% Belichick and Belichick knowing his safe rookie QB couldn't outplay Josh Allen in that stadium, in that spotlight, in that weather. So he didn't let his QB throw the ball.

So much for best rookie QB ever?