2016 #1 DRAFT PICK: B.STEWART OR J. LLOYD

[mhshuskies]

A lot remains to be seen. People thought Latta was a lock for #1 back on 2007 and Harding wasn't projected to be a lottery pick...then the 2007 season happened and Harding was outstanding while Latta's play declined.

Stewart is a more unique prospect because her skill set is so unique. She isn't the athlete or shooter Loyd is, but she has the best inside-outside ability of any prospect the last 10 years. And she has shown up big time in big moments.

I think taking Stewart is more of a gamble with potentially a better pay out. She struggled in international ball and physically needs to get stronger, but has such a unique skill set I think she will be the top pick.

Loyd reminds me of Deanna Nolan. She has improved leaps and bounds each season and is so smooth offensively. She is the best athlete in the class and can score from anywhere . She still has huge upside and should be a major impact player from day 1. She has struggled against UCONN in the Final Four the last two years but it is pretty rare that players excel against Connecticut.

2016 will be one of the better classes to graduate. Loyd and Stewart would be sure fire #1 picks if they entered in 2015 (and probably 2014 had they been eligible.)

A lot can still change--this time two years ago Graves would've been a popular pick for #1, so we'll see what happens. If I had to pick now, I'd take Stewart but it'd be hard to pass on Loyd.

Stewi

Stewert easily.

However, if Loyd leads ND to a championship this year and next over a Stewert led team...that may make it interesting.

Stewert easily.

However, if Loyd leads ND to a championship this year and next over a Stewert led team...that may make it interesting.

?????? What fantasy world would that happen in?????????

 

[HuskyNan]

WNBA pay scale:

A player with 0-2 year experience: $37,950, average rookie salary $36,500
A player with 3+ years experience: $55,000

The average WNBA player earns $72,000.
2013 team salary cap was $913,000

The 52nd highest paid NBA player, JaVale McGee, made more than the every WNBA player - combined, yes, the entire league.

Why would a player give up a year of free education that's worth about as much as her first year salary?

 

[hoophuskee]

WNBA pay scale:

A player with 0-2 year experience: $37,950, average rookie salary $36,500
A player with 3+ years experience: $55,000

The average WNBA player earns $72,000.
2013 team salary cap was $913,000

The 52nd highest paid NBA player, JaVale McGee, made more than the every WNBA player - combined, yes, the entire league.

Why would a player give up a year of free education that's worth about as much as her first year salary?

Because when they go overseas they'll make another about $100K. Why wouldn't a kid that gets selected in the top tier - in a few years that $170K has a great chance to grow. Getting $170K with a great shot to get more as your scale goes up when you have had history with bad knees for a job that can have a short window- imo she'll go.

The 5 championships also that some reference from time to time means more to the fan.

 

[MarieYLee]

Stewi


?????? What fantasy world would that happen in?????????

Theoretically. Hey, UConn lost to Stanford. A team they should have beaten by 30 on talent alone. I don't think it will happen, but if Loyd/ND beats Stewert/UConn (a more talented team), it MAY changes the dynamics. Still, Stewert is such a unique talent, that it would be hard to see anyone pass her up.

WNBA pay scale:

A player with 0-2 year experience: $37,950, average rookie salary $36,500
A player with 3+ years experience: $55,000

The average WNBA player earns $72,000.
2013 team salary cap was $913,000

The 52nd highest paid NBA player, JaVale McGee, made more than the every WNBA player - combined, yes, the entire league.

Why would a player give up a year of free education that's worth about as much as her first year salary?

Thats for 3-4 months of work, which really isn't bad (plus I believe they have housing/food stipends). A player like Loyd or Stewert can probably make 200k+ (possibly more...Maya/Griner made 500k the first year) overseas. Anyway, I wouldn't do it, and don't think they would, as I feel that a final year in college is pretty much priceless. However, Ephinany Prince skipped her senior year to play in Europe (to help her family financially).

 

[HuskyNan]

Thats for 3-4 months of work, which really isn't bad (plus I believe they have housing/food stipends). A player like Loyd or Stewert can probably make 200k+ (possibly more...Maya/Griner made 500k the first year) overseas. Anyway, I wouldn't do it, and don't think they would, as I feel that a final year in college is pretty much priceless. However, Ephinany Prince skipped her senior year to play in Europe (to help her family financially).

The top players in the game don't even make $200,000. Sue Bird earned $107,500 last year, which is the league maximum. Brittany Griner earned $47,000 as a WNBA rookie; $49,440 in 2013 and . She earns a lot more in China but she's Brittany Griner, a 6-9 phenom. Jewel Loyd is a wonderful talent, but so is Odyssey Sims and a lot of other WNBA guards.

 

[hoophuskee]

The top players in the game don't even make $200,000. Sue Bird earned $107,500 last year, which is the league maximum. Brittany Griner earned $47,000 as a WNBA rookie; $49,440 in 2013 and . She earns a lot more in China but she's Brittany Griner, a 6-9 phenom. Jewel Loyd is a wonderful talent, but so is Odyssey Sims and a lot of other WNBA guards.

You are talking only WNBA. They make about $170K if you're pretty good when you combine.

 

[bballnut90]

1--- I don't agree that ND's defense wasn't great. No way a one-dimensional team could have beaten UCONN 3 times that year without having a great defense. And if you are going to count the Maryland game giving Loyd props you also have to give props to ND's frontline. You can't give one props for the MD game and then all of a sudden discount what Stewie did. I don't count much what Stewie did vs ND 2nd time though.

2-- I'm only looking at the UConn games because those are the games which she will compete against at the professional level in a relative manner.

3-- Ogwumike 15 pts and 10 rebounds and 4 assists shooting 5-12 from the floor - 4-6 from the line - not great I agree. But decent. Yet we know who was chosen for the USA team - Ogwumike vs Stewie. Anyhw Ogwumkie's pro stats simailr to the UCONN NCAA game. Keep in mind I'm not saying Ogwumike or Loyd stinks. I've said Loyd would be the 2nd pick as of now. That ain't too shabby. Loyd may very well get NPOY this year. Alana Beard also beat out DT for NPOY with more gaudy stats. Are you trying to say if they meet two more times in NCAA's (a strong possibility) that a great player like Loyd it is acceptable that not ONCE she has a productive game?

4--- I think you are getting way too defensive. I never said Loyd stinks. I never said Ogwumiek stinks. I was clear "as of this moment" I want to see loyd be productive in a money game vs UCONN just like her teammate McBride was. There are two more years left and she certainly can be productive. All I'm saying is I want to see it. I'm probably misreading you too- but for example what you are coming at me with is Maryland as an example? SO Loyd plays well vs Md (and so did ND's frontline) and she gets an "atta boy." Stewie then plays the same team that wiped off Maryland and yet you seem to discount Stewie's performance. I know I'm probably misreading you in some manner. You're an excellent poster. I emphasize excellent. But the fact you bring up Md in this circumstance and Mich State in another - I've discounted these teams when evaluating a 1st pick. If you disagree why come at me 2nd time in your reply? And if you are going to count MD - I have no idea why you diminished Stewie's performance vs ND.

5-- I'm hung up on that because that is the type of talent she is going to face when she goes pro in terms of size and athlecismsm all around her. A player like Ogwumike in NCAA's which you identified to me- she had about the same freshman year in WNBA that she had last year in the NCAA's vs UCONN. And Kayla McBride she took a lot of 3's in WNBA - played great in playoffs - I'l bet if you looked at her efg% comparing UCONN game vs her WNBA caeer they were somewhat compatible. In addition you say UCONN was able to smother McBride - okay in some manner yes- in another - I thought McBride was productive 8-18 fromt the floor (.444) - UCONN was just 34-73 from the floor at .465. I call McBride's game productive. McBride had a productive WNBA season. If it was "great" then compare that to her game vs UCOON in finals. How much did they differ?

1. Notre Dame was far from a one dimensional team, nor were they a bad defensive team, but they were not a great defensive team in 2014. In 2013 they were a stronger defensive team with Diggins in the backcourt, but again, not a great defensive team. They beat UCONN three times because UCONN choked down the stretch, and McBride/Diggins made huge plays in tight moments.

2. So by this logic, you wouldn't factor in her performances against Baylor in 2013 and 2014? Against a Griner led Baylor team she had 24 as a freshman, and dropped 30 against Baylor in 2014. She just scored 34 points against one of the better defensive teams in the nation in Tennessee. She scored 31 against UCONN this year. You can't isolate two games where she played poorly and say those are the only ones that should be looked at because they were post season games against a high level defense, but ignore all other post season performances or regular season performances against the same opponent.

3. Ogwumike finished with a decent stat line compared to most, but she averaged 26 points, 12 rebounds and shot 60% from the floor coming in. And here are the stats from the other 4 games she put up against UCONN:
2010-6 points, 5 rebounds, 2-7 FG, fouled out in 19 minutes
2011-7 points, 12 rebounds, 3-12 FG, 4 fouls, 5 turnovers
2012-18 points, 13 rebounds, 6-22 FG, 3 turnovers
2013-16 points, 13 rebounds, 6-16 FG, 4 turnovers.

The Pac-12s all time leading scorer never cracked 20 against UCONN in 5 chances, and shot 32% from the field against UCONN after shooting high 50s-60s over her career. In the pros, Ogwumike averaged 15.5 points, 8.5 rebounds and shot nearly 54% from the floor as a rookie.

4. I never said or insinuated that you think Ogwumike/Loyd stink. And thank you for the kind words. I just think you are too preoccupied on those two games. I don't see how you wouldn't consider the 2013 regional against Duke a 'money game', or 2014 against Baylor. Notre Dame has to win those games or their season is over, just like both Final Four games against Connecticut. If I'm a GM, I know that playing against UCONN is going to be brutal and you probably wont have numbers that are reflective of how you'll do as a professional. Diggins for all of her big moments in UCONN games had several games where she shot the ball horribly and committed 5+ turnovers. Griner was completely outplayed as a freshman against UCONN in her 'money game' against UCONN. If I'm a WNBA GM, I'd recognize that Loyd has struggled in the Final Four against UCONN but has lit it up outside of 2 poor showings. As a junior she is playing better than anyone in the nation while carrying a huge load for Notre Dame. I'd be more impressed with her consistently great performances this year--31 points against UCONN this year, her 34 points against Tennessee, 40+ against DePaul, 27 against Maryland, etc. than I would be disheartened or worried that she wont perform well in big games because she struggled against UCONN as a freshman and sophomore.

 

[bballnut90]

Also bballnut- just curious as to your thoughts- who is the greater pro-- Maya Moore or Angel? Angle certainly had more gaudy stats and she was overwhelmed by UCONN's overall talent. Who would you pick if they came out the same year?

I'd take Moore everyday over Angel

 

[bballnut90]

Were any of these player's sophomore's in college entering their jr year? how about Sims too? Did she struggle?

Parker was playing after her RS freshman season entering her RS sophomore season. Holdsclaw and Moore were coming off of their junior seasons entering their senior year, but both likely would have made the roster and earned playing time had the tournament been held a year prior. Sims struggled, she was also a college graduate with WNBA experience under her belt. There are several other players who played in Olympics/World Championships the summer after they finished college ball--off the top of my head, I can think of Tina Charles, Sylvia Fowles, Tamika Catchings, Sue Bird, and Diana Taurasi. Pretty elite company for Stewart to be part of.

 

[hoophuskee]

1. Notre Dame was far from a one dimensional team, nor were they a bad defensive team, but they were not a great defensive team in 2014. In 2013 they were a stronger defensive team with Diggins in the backcourt, but again, not a great defensive team. They beat UCONN three times because UCONN choked down the stretch, and McBride/Diggins made huge plays in tight moments.

2. So by this logic, you wouldn't factor in her performances against Baylor in 2013 and 2014? Against a Griner led Baylor team she had 24 as a freshman, and dropped 30 against Baylor in 2014. She just scored 34 points against one of the better defensive teams in the nation in Tennessee. She scored 31 against UCONN this year. You can't isolate two games where she played poorly and say those are the only ones that should be looked at because they were post season games against a high level defense, but ignore all other post season performances or regular season performances against the same opponent.

3. Ogwumike finished with a decent stat line compared to most, but she averaged 26 points, 12 rebounds and shot 60% from the floor coming in. And here are the stats from the other 4 games she put up against UCONN:
2010-6 points, 5 rebounds, 2-7 FG, fouled out in 19 minutes
2011-7 points, 12 rebounds, 3-12 FG, 4 fouls, 5 turnovers
2012-18 points, 13 rebounds, 6-22 FG, 3 turnovers
2013-16 points, 13 rebounds, 6-16 FG, 4 turnovers.

The Pac-12s all time leading scorer never cracked 20 against UCONN in 5 chances, and shot 32% from the field against UCONN after shooting high 50s-60s over her career. In the pros, Ogwumike averaged 15.5 points, 8.5 rebounds and shot nearly 54% from the floor as a rookie.

4. I never said or insinuated that you think Ogwumike/Loyd stink. And thank you for the kind words. I just think you are too preoccupied on those two games. I don't see how you wouldn't consider the 2013 regional against Duke a 'money game', or 2014 against Baylor. Notre Dame has to win those games or their season is over, just like both Final Four games against Connecticut. If I'm a GM, I know that playing against UCONN is going to be brutal and you probably wont have numbers that are reflective of how you'll do as a professional. Diggins for all of her big moments in UCONN games had several games where she shot the ball horribly and committed 5+ turnovers. Griner was completely outplayed as a freshman against UCONN in her 'money game' against UCONN. If I'm a WNBA GM, I'd recognize that Loyd has struggled in the Final Four against UCONN but has lit it up outside of 2 poor showings. As a junior she is playing better than anyone in the nation while carrying a huge load for Notre Dame. I'd be more impressed with her consistently great performances this year--31 points against UCONN this year, her 34 points against Tennessee, 40+ against DePaul, 27 against Maryland, etc. than I would be disheartened or worried that she wont perform well in big games because she struggled against UCONN as a freshman and sophomore.

1-- I disagree big time with number 1. We were beaten 3 times. I think it gives ND absolutely no respect at all to not even acknowledge they were better than us in those 3 games. It came down the stretch because they were such a great defensive and were able to stop us when they needed to.

2--- No. As I've been saying "money ball" time is NCAA's. She gets "points" for being number 2 behind STewie. But give me the player the hasn't been completely shutdown in the final four. Twice Loyd has. I have to bring up her frosh year because you also bring it up. For example if you can being up her frosh year when she scored 24 vs Baylor - then I can bring up the NCAA's when she did absolutely nothing. Jimmie Johnson once said as he evaluates qb's he thought it was most important not to look at the plays they make but more importantly the plays they don't make. So far twice in NCAA's Loyd's play has been awful vs UCONN.

3--- You're talking "averages." Then if a player doesn't meet their average then it means what? They're awful? The point I believe is most important is "did she play well." She played decent. A 15pt 10 rebound game is decent with the stats I gave is decent. It's that she is doing in the pros. When you are talking greatness being that super number 1 pick you don't use data such as what Jordan or Bird did vs an expansion team or a mediocre team. How did they do vs the best of the best? And Stewie shredded ND her frosh year in the money game vs a great defensive team that beat them three times not because they were lucky- beucase overall those games they were better (though refs robbed us 1 game).

4-- I enjoy your posts. I used to post to you a long time ago on the old espn board and I was a bit rude. I apologized to you on here before about that - don't think you saw it. Anyhow -- while Diggins shot the ball horribly she forced Bria to shoot horribly. As far as a GM- I'm looking at UCONN as a kind of a WNBA team in which you got lots of size along with athltcism. There isn't much of a weakness at the college level for UCONN- some but not a lot. That's the type of talent and defense Loyd will be up against relatively speaking in her pro career. This the Mich State's and the MD team that quit - they aren't that great of barometers. Sure they are to some extent. That's why I have her 2.

Heckl I agree with your comments for Loyd and right now is Reg Season NPOY - that's why I brought up for example Beard vs DT. I am impressed with Loyd - a thread a while ago I came clean and never thought she'd be this awesome. With that said - when you compare Peyton Manning vs Tom Brady- you have a reason why one is better. You just can't disregard the shortcomings of both and just look at the good stuff. I get that Loyd is accumulating stats - and playing great - but if Ogwumike and McBride can play decent vs UCONN when it matters- there is no reason why Loyd can't do it. Yet she hasn't yet. If she is as good as you suggest NPOY - this will be her 3rd crack at UCONN she should be able to at least be productive. When you are supposedly in Stewie's class of greatness - there is no way you should get shutdown 3 or maybe 4 times if you are that great- in Stewie's class. Stewie made the Nat'l team and shredded ND her frosh year and had a strong soph campaign from beginning of that season to end - because she is great. The bar is raised and though Loyd's reg season stats have been terrific - what do you do money time? Why do so many think Brady is greater than Peyton? If Peyton lost 35-31 that's one thing. Loyd doesn't need to win - just show us you can not be shutdown for the most important game of the year. Right now the problem with Loyd is that we are comparing her to "Big Game Stewie."

 

[bballnut90]

1-- I disagree big time with number 1. We were beaten 3 times. I think it gives ND absolutely no respect at all to not even acknowledge they were better than us in those 3 games. It came down the stretch because they were such a great defensive and were able to stop us when they needed to.

2--- No. As I've been saying "money ball" time is NCAA's. She gets "points" for being number 2 behind STewie. But give me the player the hasn't been completely shutdown in the final four. Twice Loyd has. I have to bring up her frosh year because you also bring it up. For example if you can being up her frosh year when she scored 24 vs Baylor - then I can bring up the NCAA's when she did absolutely nothing. Jimmie Johnson once said as he evaluates qb's he thought it was most important not to look at the plays they make but more importantly the plays they don't make. So far twice in NCAA's Loyd's play has been awful vs UCONN.

3--- You're talking "averages." Then if a player doesn't meet their average then it means what? They're awful? The point I believe is most important is "did she play well." She played decent. A 15pt 10 rebound game is decent with the stats I gave is decent. It's that she is doing in the pros. When you are talking greatness being that super number 1 pick you don't use data such as what Jordan or Bird did vs an expansion team or a mediocre team. How did they do vs the best of the best? And Stewie shredded ND her frosh year in the money game vs a great defensive team that beat them three times not because they were lucky- beucase overall those games they were better (though refs robbed us 1 game).

4-- I enjoy your posts. I used to post to you a long time ago on the old espn board and I was a bit rude. I apologized to you on here before about that - don't think you saw it. Anyhow -- while Diggins shot the ball horribly she forced Bria to shoot horribly. As far as a GM- I'm looking at UCONN as a kind of a WNBA team in which you got lots of size along with athltcism. There isn't much of a weakness at the college level for UCONN- some but not a lot. That's the type of talent and defense Loyd will be up against relatively speaking in her pro career. This the Mich State's and the MD team that quit - they aren't that great of barometers. Sure they are to some extent. That's why I have her 2.

Heckl I agree with your comments for Loyd and right now is Reg Season NPOY - that's why I brought up for example Beard vs DT. I am impressed with Loyd - a thread a while ago I came clean and never thought she'd be this awesome. With that said - when you compare Peyton Manning vs Tom Brady- you have a reason why one is better. You just can't disregard the shortcomings of both and just look at the good stuff. I get that Loyd is accumulating stats - and playing great - but if Ogwumike and McBride can play decent vs UCONN when it matters- there is no reason why Loyd can't do it. Yet she hasn't yet. If she is as good as you suggest NPOY - this will be her 3rd crack at UCONN she should be able to at least be productive. When you are supposedly in Stewie's class of greatness - there is no way you should get shutdown 3 or maybe 4 times if you are that great- in Stewie's class. Stewie made the Nat'l team and shredded ND her frosh year and had a strong soph campaign from beginning of that season to end - because she is great. The bar is raised and though Loyd's reg season stats have been terrific - what do you do money time? Why do so many think Brady is greater than Peyton? If Peyton lost 35-31 that's one thing. Loyd doesn't need to win - just show us you can not be shutdown for the most important game of the year. Right now the problem with Loyd is that we are comparing her to "Big Game Stewie."

I think it's safe to say that we disagree on a few stances here. If you're looking at body of work for how great of a collegiate player/college career Loyd has had vs Stewart, there's no comparison. Stewart is 2-2 in title games and has put up huge numbers in the Final Four. Loyd has 2 Final Fours to her credit but no titles and poor showings against UCONN in the NCAA tournament. When you look at a players legacy as far as who is in the argument for "best ever," I don't see Loyd being in that argument where Stewart will have a pretty good resume to be considered in that elite group.


If I'm a WNBA GM, I would definitely take this into consideration. I would also take into consideration how much Loyd has improved each year and how much potential she has. I know I have only seen her play against collegiate teams, but I think she has potential to be another Deanna Nolan, who led her team to 3 WNBA Championships, was on several All-WNBA teams and widely regarded as one of the best guards in the world during her prime. Loyd went from being the 4th scoring option as a freshman, to an All-American as a sophomore, to arguably the best player in the nation as a junior. The game against Tennessee was the best I've seen her play, she didn't force anything, was incredibly smooth and Tennessee had no answer for her. On the flip side, with Stewart, I don't think we've seen her best play yet this season. She would've been a surefire #1 pick a year ago and was everyone's pick for preseason POY after hauling in hardware last year. This season though, she is not playing at the same level she did a year ago, and she was outplayed by Loyd when they faced ND earlier this year. As a GM, I don't find this concerning considering that UCONN is the best team in women's basketball right now and she is still having a fine season, even if it is slightly underwhelming considering expectations. She'd still be the #1 pick in my book right now, but if Loyd continues to play at such a high level while Stewart hasn't shown us as much this year, I could see Loyd overtaking Stewart at #1 next season. It'd be fun to bring up this topic again at the end of the season and see what people's thoughts are then, as it has definitely stirred some conversation on the board.

 

[HuskyNan]

You are talking only WNBA. They make about $170K if you're pretty good when you combine.

Again, not everyone is driven by money.

IMO, this all moot and that Loyd will be back at ND next year. It's fun to bat the topic around, though.

 

[meyers7]

Regarding the OP's question- let's just say that there wouldn't be a real loser if you picked either one.

IDK, you don't pass up Moore, you don't pass up DT, you don't pass up Parker, and you don't pass up Stewart.

 

[hoophuskee]

I think it's safe to say that we disagree on a few stances here. If you're looking at body of work for how great of a collegiate player/college career Loyd has had vs Stewart, there's no comparison. Stewart is 2-2 in title games and has put up huge numbers in the Final Four. Loyd has 2 Final Fours to her credit but no titles and poor showings against UCONN in the NCAA tournament. When you look at a players legacy as far as who is in the argument for "best ever," I don't see Loyd being in that argument where Stewart will have a pretty good resume to be considered in that elite group.


If I'm a WNBA GM, I would definitely take this into consideration. I would also take into consideration how much Loyd has improved each year and how much potential she has. I know I have only seen her play against collegiate teams, but I think she has potential to be another Deanna Nolan, who led her team to 3 WNBA Championships, was on several All-WNBA teams and widely regarded as one of the best guards in the world during her prime. Loyd went from being the 4th scoring option as a freshman, to an All-American as a sophomore, to arguably the best player in the nation as a junior. The game against Tennessee was the best I've seen her play, she didn't force anything, was incredibly smooth and Tennessee had no answer for her. On the flip side, with Stewart, I don't think we've seen her best play yet this season. She would've been a surefire #1 pick a year ago and was everyone's pick for preseason POY after hauling in hardware last year. This season though, she is not playing at the same level she did a year ago, and she was outplayed by Loyd when they faced ND earlier this year. As a GM, I don't find this concerning considering that UCONN is the best team in women's basketball right now and she is still having a fine season, even if it is slightly underwhelming considering expectations. She'd still be the #1 pick in my book right now, but if Loyd continues to play at such a high level while Stewart hasn't shown us as much this year, I could see Loyd overtaking Stewart at #1 next season. It'd be fun to bring up this topic again at the end of the season and see what people's thoughts are then, as it has definitely stirred some conversation on the board.

The biggest problem with Stewie is that she isn't hitting shots that we expect her to hit. Of course her defense and rebounding can improve but that is masked by her length. Larry Bird had defensive issues too. SO did Magic. Anyway, when Stewie blocks a shot at one end and then runs the floor and either converts on a fastbreak or gets an offensive rebound then converts at the other it looks like a "ho-hum" play at the other. But when a guard steals the ball and similar action happens - it is much more exciting.

I agree about Loyd as a great player which is why she is number 2 at this moment. But on the flip side if she goes 6-20 in a possible matchup again with UCONN - if I'm a GM - I'm aksing "why?" It's more than just the name on the UCONN jersey. WHat is it specifically that UCONN is doing? Why was McBride while Loyd can't. . . etc. WHy is Loyd just a 31.5 3pt shooter while Stewart is shooting better than her from 3 despite Stewart having an off-shooting year but got hot again just like she usaally does? The GM is goingt o lok at the failures of loyd too.

 

[Striper69]

I went to 3 last year. All involved the Mercury - 2 playoff games vs the Lynx and one regular season game vs San Antonio. San Antonio had no chance to win, before, during or after. I only went to that game because a friend won a luxury box for the night and invited me. The two Lynx playoff games were great, especially with the "UCONN's best player ever vs UCONN's other best player ever" aspect. I try to get to a couple Mercury games every year. It's sad, but when I don't get in for free (they have many "dump the extra tickets" promos) I can always buy good seats on the street outside the arena for below face value. And this is a good team.

That was my point- you watched the two elite teams play each other. The rest of the teams are a tier below those two but they're still pretty evenly matched although I believe Atlanta has a chance to beat either of them this year with Shoni and the rest maturing. The same applies to all the rest of the teams. They're all getting better each year and none of them are "bad" teams. The most talented league of athletes in the world.

 

[Striper69]

BD~

I'm not being disrespectful at all and I don't discount the the immense athletic ability of JL. What does she do well? She's played the Guard position for 3 seasons @ ND, she doesn't have exceptional ball-handking skills, she's not a great or even good passer, she isn't an exceptional shooter, she isn't a great one-on-one defender as Bria Hartley proved, she isn't a a great rebounder for her size. She's a great athlete who can run and jump and she plays at ND. I don't know what you're definition of special is, but here are a few examples; Odyssey Sims, Kayla McBride, Danielle Robinson, Lili Thompson, Kelsey Mitchell are all examples of special one-on-one talent. I'm sure I missed some but JL isn't in that class. If you watch Gabby Williams you'll see what I'm talking about.

" What does she do well?"
Prettty much everything you said she doesn't.

JL is in a different category than the players you mention there. Courtney Williams is a lot like her.

 

[BlueDevils]

" What does she do well?"
Prettty much everything you said she doesn't.

JL is in a different category than the players you mention there. Courtney Williams is a lot like her.

Thank you!

 

[Orangutan]

The biggest problem with Stewie is that she isn't hitting shots that we expect her to hit. Of course her defense and rebounding can improve but that is masked by her length. Larry Bird had defensive issues too. SO did Magic. Anyway, when Stewie blocks a shot at one end and then runs the floor and either converts on a fastbreak or gets an offensive rebound then converts at the other it looks like a "ho-hum" play at the other. But when a guard steals the ball and similar action happens - it is much more exciting.

I agree about Loyd as a great player which is why she is number 2 at this moment. But on the flip side if she goes 6-20 in a possible matchup again with UCONN - if I'm a GM - I'm aksing "why?" It's more than just the name on the UCONN jersey. WHat is it specifically that UCONN is doing? Why was McBride while Loyd can't. . . etc. WHy is Loyd just a 31.5 3pt shooter while Stewart is shooting better than her from 3 despite Stewart having an off-shooting year but got hot again just like she usaally does? The GM is goingt o lok at the failures of loyd too.

Loyd is a career 38% shooter from 3, I think she was just short of 40% last year. I think you'll see her % go up now that Turner and Allen have emerged a little bit. She was forcing it a little earlier this year, especially when Turner was out.

 

[rocky rococo]

Team need. Guard or forward? Can't go wrong either way. If you're picking second, you hope you have the opposite need of the team picking first.

 

[Zorro]

Team need. Guard or forward? Can't go wrong either way. If you're picking second, you hope you have the opposite need of the team picking first.

Actually, Rocky, if someone offers you a choice between a $5 bill and a $10 bill, and you take the fin, you have gone wrong.

 

[iamcbs]

Thank you!

Courtney Williams is a better player IMO than JL, she's a better ball-handler and shooter w/o question. You and BD are JL fans and so be it. Based on everything I've seen, she isn't even in the same conversation with Breanna Stewart. Kayla McBride was a better player and she wasn't projected as high as she went.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

The OP depends on team needs. Most take Stewie a team with a strong front line might well take Loyd. Tuck will not go.

It is said that brevity is the soul of wit. Very soulful post BrerBear.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Actually, Rocky, if someone offers you a choice between a $5 bill and a $10 bill, and you take the fin, you have gone wrong.

Don't pin that one on me gris, he's rocky. I'm Rocky!

 

[Orangutan]

Courtney Williams is a better player IMO than JL, she's a better ball-handler and shooter w/o question. You and BD are JL fans and so be it. Based on everything I've seen, she isn't even in the same conversation with Breanna Stewart. Kayla McBride was a better player and she wasn't projected as high as she went.

This ND fan humbly disagrees. I think Loyd is better than McBride. And McBride is from my hometown and the reason I started following ND.

By the way, Loyd's career fg and 3fg% is much better than Williams'. Williams' 3FG % is much better this year but it's only on 17 attempts, and Loyd's overall fg% is better this year (47.7% to 43.3%). Loyd is also a much better free throw shooter. Career 81.9% vs. 65.7%

As to the ball-handling, Loyd has a 1.5 assist/turnover ratio. Williams is at 0.9 A/TO.

 

[rocky rococo]

Actually, Rocky, if someone offers you a choice between a $5 bill and a $10 bill, and you take the fin, you have gone wrong.

Unlike $5s and $10s, guards and forwards aren't fungible, all Gabby experiences to the contrary as may be.