2-3 zone

[billybud]

Teams have a personality...

Some teams emphasize defense...hope to win with their D.

Others are all about offense...Defense is not sexy to watch, in football, soccer, or basketball.

But watching a well coached, quick shifting defense is, to me, as interesting as watching a team flying back and forth up and down court.
.

and...Oh, how we decried the change to add a three point line to the tourney in 1987...it would change the game to a gunner's ball.

 

[SubbaBub]

Did you see us camp in the 2-3 this year? Worked out great. Not as easy as it looks. I enjoy watching Syracuse play it’s zone.

Worked? Great?

If anything it showed it as a defense of last resort. That Boeheim recruits to just get by with it is akin to his aversion to playing road games.

 

[len0322]

Larrier's mid-range game from the elbows of the key was made to beat the 2-3 zone.
If he suited up for the Spartans yesterday, bet he would have had a monster triple double ....22 pts, 10 assist, 12 turnovers and of course 3 rebounds

 

[the Q]

Larrier's mid-range game from the elbows of the key was made to beat the 2-3 zone.
If he suited up for the Spartans yesterday, bet he would have had a monster triple double ....22 pts, 10 assist, 12 turnovers and of course 3 rebounds

I laughed at that last part.

But in all seriousness, MSU putting someone at the FT line who treated the ball like it was a hand grenade was probably not the best idea.

 

[the Q]

Teams have a personality...

Some teams emphasize defense...hope to win with their D.

Others are all about offense...Defense is not sexy to watch, in football, soccer, or basketball.

But watching a well coached, quick shifting defense is, to me, as interesting as watching a team flying back and forth up and down court.
.

and...Oh, how we decried the change to add a three point line to the tourney in 1987...it would change the game to a gunner's ball.

Totally agree.

Frankly that's why I enjoy watching the women's team so much.

If you know what you're looking for, you see all the little things they do each possession.

 

[boog204]

Could not disagree more in regards to the zone. You have to execute to beat it; the zone itself is not "ruining" CBB, it's the total lack of execution and skill level beyond dunking that is being exposed. Good teams absolutely shred a zone. In our heyday, we would crush Cuse by running high-low stuff, having a threat at the foul line, or overloading. It's not rocket science. But if the entire game plan is to screen the top and try to penetrate to kick to a mediocre shooter then you are going to lose.

And whoever compared the zone to our shotblocking past, it's more or less the same. Whatever rim-protector we had at the time usually camped out and played a one-man zone. Part of our philosophy was to play super tight perimeter D to funnel to the shotblocker.

It's like MLB considering "banning" the shift. Beat it, show you'll take the ball the other way and are not just a pull hitter going for the downs every at-bat and the shift will be a thing of the past.

 

[Showballot]

Worked? Great?

If anything it showed it as a defense of last resort. That Boeheim recruits to just get by with it is akin to his aversion to playing road games.

How old are you? Your sarcasm meter is awful. Sad!

 

[dtrumpet]

If teams could use the high post more effectively it wouldnt be such an aspect. The main problem teams have is getting it in to the high post. Teams just need to adjust and make fast passes to get it to the 4 on the high post.

there was a little cat and mouse going on with this yesterday. Izzo's adjustment at halftime was to get it to the high post, and they had some success with it. Then Boeheim adjusted the angles and spacing at the top and took it away.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Could not disagree more in regards to the zone. You have to execute to beat it; the zone itself is not "ruining" CBB, it's the total lack of execution and skill level beyond dunking that is being exposed. Good teams absolutely shred a zone. In our heyday, we would crush Cuse by running high-low stuff, having a threat at the foul line, or overloading. It's not rocket science. But if the entire game plan is to screen the top and try to penetrate to kick to a mediocre shooter then you are going to lose.

And whoever compared the zone to our shotblocking past, it's more or less the same. Whatever rim-protector we had at the time usually camped out and played a one-man zone. Part of our philosophy was to play super tight perimeter D to funnel to the shotblocker.

It's like MLB considering "banning" the shift. Beat it, show you'll take the ball the other way and are not just a pull hitter going for the downs every at-bat and the shift will be a thing of the past.

+1000

The reason a 2-3 zone works at all is because too much offense is a wing making 5 jab step fakes before either launching a contested 3 or doing a heads down drive into the teeth of the defense. That won't work against a 2-3.

In addition to your list, I would add quick ball reversals. There are a lot of ways to beat a zone.

 

[intlzncster]

Larrier's mid-range game from the elbows of the key was made to beat the 2-3 zone.
If he suited up for the Spartans yesterday, bet he would have had a monster triple double ....22 pts, 10 assist, 12 turnovers and of course 3 rebounds

Sort of. His height and shooting is, but his passing is definitely not. He just doesn't make quick enough decisions (this year) to be effective enough at it.

 

[boog204]

+1000

The reason a 2-3 zone works at all is because too much offense is a wing making 5 jab step fakes before either launching a contested 3 or doing a heads down drive into the teeth of the defense. That won't work against a 2-3.

In addition to your list, I would add quick ball reversals. There are a lot of ways to beat a zone.

Absolutely... Ball movement is paramount. My dad used to coach me and used a drill where we were not allowed to dribble against the zone. Ball movement, player movement, open shots. It was pretty effective when I was 11.

 

[Lefty2one]

Zones aren't the problem here.

 

[the Q]

Absolutely... Ball movement is paramount. My dad used to coach me and used a drill where we were not allowed to dribble against the zone. Ball movement, player movement, open shots. It was pretty effective when I was 11.

You could use HS plays to beat the cuse zone considering how much they concede the FT line.

but you need someone who is willing to execute out there.

Why Izzo didn't make Bridges his 4 and play with 3 guards out there to attack that way, rather than the hot potato guy he left there most of the game, is simply baffling.

 

[CL82]

I am cautious about any change that devalues defense and makes the college game more like NBA play.

 

[Lefty2one]

You could use HS plays to beat the cuse zone considering how much they concede the FT line.

but you need someone who is willing to execute out there.

Why Izzo didn't make Bridges his 4 and play with 3 guards out there to attack that way, rather than the hot potato guy he left there most of the game, is simply baffling.

You need both the right player and the player to have mental ability or whatever you want to call it to handle it; the task of catching the ball in the middle of a zone and turning to make a play is a very foreign feeling for most basketball players. Most have no experience with it. A lot of guys rush or aren't capable of making good decisions. Not to mention the "openness" a player perceives closes up really fast against a team with Cuse's length.

 

[Lefty2one]

I am cautious about any change that devalues defense and makes the college game more like NBA play.

I would enjoy FIBAs rules but not the NBA's. I hate what the NBA has become, too many rule changes the last twenty years for the sake of entertainment. Made it too much of a guard's game.

 

[the Q]

You need both the right player and the player to have mental ability or whatever you want to call it to handle it; the task of catching the ball in the middle of a zone and turning to make a play is a very foreign feeling for most basketball players. Most have no experience with it. A lot of guys rush or aren't capable of making good decisions. Not to mention the "openness" a player perceives closes up really fast against a team with Cuse's length.

All the more reason to have a wing with power forward like shoulders, who is used to facing the basket, distributing and hitting mid range jumpers.

If only izzo had one of those guys on his roster...

 

[the Q]

I would enjoy FIBAs rules but not the NBA's. I hate what the NBA has become, too many rule changes the last twenty years for the sake of entertainment. Made it too much of a guard's game.

I would be happy with fiba except the trapzoid lane and no stupid block/charge semi circles.

The dumbest inventions in basketball history. If anything the lane should be inverted and no space on the court should prevent legal guarding position simply by existing.

 

[QDOG5]

What mystical defense was MSU playing to make Cuse shoot 35% and 12% from three. That D should be made illegal too.

 

[tzznandrew]

What mystical defense was MSU playing to make Cuse shoot 35% and 12% from three. That D should be made illegal too.

I don't care about how it makes the game look. My sense is that these kids should have one set of rules that matches where they'll play later. FIBA would make a lot of sense. Once you're 18, you can shoot from distance enough that you shouldn't need a separate 3-pt line. I'd also bring the shot clock to FIBA standards as well. etc etc.

 

[QDOG5]

My guess is we'll see changes this year. NCAA mens bball is the only league in the world playing two halves. I think we'll see quarters within 2 years and I think the 3pt. line will get deeper. I'm not sure we'll see defensive 3 seconds in that time frame but I guess it's on the discussion list. Remember it took the NCAA a couple of years after the NBA to install the arc under the basket.

 

[intlzncster]

My guess is we'll see changes this year. NCAA mens bball is the only league in the world playing two halves. I think we'll see quarters within 2 years and I think the 3pt. line will get deeper. I'm not sure we'll see defensive 3 seconds in that time frame but I guess it's on the discussion list. Remember it took the NCAA a couple of years after the NBA to install the arc under the basket.

Even the women play in qtrs. Makes no sense for the men.

 

[intlzncster]

I don't care about how it makes the game look. My sense is that these kids should have one set of rules that matches where they'll play later. FIBA would make a lot of sense. Once you're 18, you can shoot from distance enough that you shouldn't need a separate 3-pt line. I'd also bring the shot clock to FIBA standards as well. etc etc.

I dont' mind the 30 second clock. If only because college players have a tough time getting a good look against zones. If you lowered it further, you'd have more zone defenses imo.

I guess if you instituted the 3 second rule, that would counteract it.

 

[Excalibur]

Absolutely... Ball movement is paramount. My dad used to coach me and used a drill where we were not allowed to dribble against the zone. Ball movement, player movement, open shots. It was pretty effective when I was 11.

Dribble penetration is a necessity against a zone. It was part of our formula for years.

 

[husky429]

Dribble penetration is a necessity against a zone. It was part of our formula for years.

In middle and high school... and college, the vast majority of guards are unable to dribble penetrate a zone. From the wing it's possible, but still difficult. Calhoun used to screen one guy up top and try to make the penetration a 1 on 1 move. Always worked nicely.

 

[UConnRock]

Syracuse's 2-3 zone works but it makes college basketball unwatachable

This article sums it up nicely

 

[TheChamps990411]

Shortened shot clock playing in favor of zone. Less time in each possession to work for a good shot. Lots of forced 3's at end of shot clock a result.

This! So this. Ive always wondered how can you still allow zone D if youre lowering the shot clock? Never made sense to me. It really does need to go especially if they shorten the shot clock to 24 which ive heard being considered.

 

[boog204]

Dribble penetration is a necessity against a zone. It was part of our formula for years.

Not disagreeing... Just saying that my pops necessitated moving/swinging/skipping the ball, flashing to the free-throw line to teach us to avoid over dribbling against the 2-3. Obviously, attacking the seams, when available, w/ the bounce is a great way to collapse the zone for a kick out etc.

 

[UConnJim]

There are many ways to attack the 2/3 zone. In my opinion, the best way is to play uptempo and beat the defense down the court before they can set up in the zone. And, play a full court press against the team that likes to play zone to increase the tempo of the game and force turnovers.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Dribble penetration is a necessity against a zone. It was part of our formula for years.

Not really. Rule of thumb is you beat man defense with the dribble, you beat zone defense with the pass. A 2-3 wants you to try to dribble penetrate, because the penetrator will usually find themselves trapped in the paint with no passing lanes out, and either turn it over or take a wild shot. Going baseline against a good 2-3 like Syracuse's is very dangerous because there will be a trap waiting for you behind the backboard. There are diagonal penetration lanes in a 2-3 at 45 degrees to the hoop, but that penetration is set up by good passing using ball reversals, especially using the high post.

If you can get the ball to the high post, the zone is in trouble. If your high post is a good passer, the zone is in a lot of trouble.

Our best zone busting teams had good high post passing from Knight, Voskuhl, Okafor, Thabeet and even Oriakhi. Okafor, Villanueva and Boone would just high/low zones to death, because once the defense's center steps up on the high post, the blocks are wide open. Combine that with good shooting over the top to stretch the zone out, and THEN you can dribble penetrate against a zone, but if the ball movement and movement without the ball is good enough, you don't really need to dribble drive.