#1 WNBA Draft Pick: A'Ja or Gabby or Someone Else?

[CocoHusky]

For those who think Vadeeva is a lottery pick, would you give up the #1 pick for Amanda Zahui, a player who is lucky if she can get 10 minutes in a WNBA game?View attachment 27126

Why do you keep throwing shade at Vadeeva a player you clearly knew nothing about? Mark this down Vadeeva will easily be a lottery pick REGARDLESS of which WNBA draft she goes into.

 

[Shades]

Why do you keep throwing shade at Vadeeva a player you clearly knew nothing about? Mark this down Vadeeva will easily be a lottery pick REGARDLESS of which WNBA draft she goes into.

That's not throwing shade. That's just being realistic. I know enough about her that I'd want her on my team, but my team picks at #12. That would be a fair price for a player that may never come over to the WNBA. I'd also give #12 for Zahui, who is putting up better Euroleague stats than Vadeeva. That's a reality.

 

[Lynx23]

At this point , Kia

If marketability (talent+personality+communication skills) means anything in the WNBA, Kia won't have to wait long for her name to be called on draft day. I'll be at the last home game to celebrate Kia and Gabby (I was at Maya's and am disappointed to say it wasn't a sellout; I think this one will be). I don't think I will have missed any graduating Senior more than I will these two. I don't care how talented your favorite player is, it's a different team when these two are on the floor, and a better one. 2018-2019 will be interesting.....

 

[CocoHusky]

That's not throwing shade. That's just being realistic. I know enough about her that I'd want her on my team, but my team picks at #12. That would be a fair price for a player that may never come over to the WNBA. I'd also give #12 for Zahui, who is putting up better Euroleague stats than Vadeeva. That's a reality.

That is not reality, that is a luaghable proposal, and that's not how the WNBA works.
If Vadeeva has no intention of coming over to US she will not declare for the WNBA draft and you can't trade for a WNBA player who has not declared. I'm not sure if she eligible age wise for 2017 but I do know that she has a pretty lucrative professional contract with Nneka and Angel as teammates.
Please stop with the Zahui B comparison.
If you look at the stat line below you will see that Vadeeva is putting up comporable numbers to Nneka (former WNBA MVP).
BTW make sure you adjust the minutes played per game before you come to the wrong conclusion again.
Dynamo Kursk at the EuroLeague Women 2017 - FIBA.basketball

 

[bballnut90]

So far this year, A’ja looks like the clear front runner for POY and to be the #1 pick.

Gabby hasn’t had a standout year so far...if she doesn’t return to old form, she could drop to the 6-9 range.

Players like Mitchell, Nared, Russell, and Vivians are all improving/maintaining their stock greatly. Lots of season to go.

 

[ConnFanInMich]

I don't actually think

That is not reality, that is a luaghable proposal, and that's not how the WNBA works.
If Vadeeva has no intention of coming over to US she will not declare for the WNBA draft and you can't trade for a WNBA player who has not declared. I'm not sure if she eligible age wise for 2017 but I do know that she has a pretty lucrative professional contract with Nneka and Angel as teammates.
Please stop with the Zahui B comparison.
If you look at the stat line below you will see that Vadeeva is putting up comporable numbers to Nneka (former WNBA MVP).
BTW make sure you adjust the minutes played per game before you come to the wrong conclusion again.
Dynamo Kursk at the EuroLeague Women 2017 - FIBA.basketball

Is that how it works? I feel like the Sun have wasted several picks on players with no intention of coming over.

I think Vadeeva is obviously an amazing talent with a lot of pro experience for someone her age. On the other hand, with the short W season it makes having a key player with significant national team commitments very hard. I don't think there have been many Russia players in the league over the years.

Maybe she would make the most sense for Chicago since with the second lottery pick, they have more freedom to roll the dice.

 

[iamcbs]

Las Vegas has the first pick.

I think A'Ja Wilson will develop into a fine "big" in the WNBA, but the WNBA has many established "bigs" already, so I don't see her dominating until a few years have passed, if ever.

I'm ignorant of international prospects, but I've seen Kelsey Mitchell and Diamond Deshields play, and I would take Gabby Williams over A'Ja, Kelsey or Diamond. Gabby will be a star from Day 1 in the WNBA, in my opinion, because of her otherworldly physical gifts...and her mid-range jumper. She will be able to get her mid-range shot off against anyone, anywhere, anytime. No one who can run with her can come close to her elevation and hang time. Also, her "ticky-tack" foul calls in college won't be called in the rougher professional game. Barring injury, I think she'll shine in the WNBA from Day 1.

However, I bow to those of you with more knowledge and insight. Please share.

Gabby doesn't have the offensive skills to be the #1 pick and at the professional level athleticism isn't enough. Courtney Vandersloot, Lindsey Whalen nor Allie Quigley are super athletic, yet they all have the offensive skill set that teams grave. Jewel LLoyd[sic] is super athletic and she has struggled.

 

[CocoHusky]

I don't actually think
Is that how it works? I feel like the Sun have wasted several picks on players with no intention of coming over.
I think Vadeeva is obviously an amazing talent with a lot of pro experience for someone her age. On the other hand, with the short W season it makes having a key player with significant national team commitments very hard. I don't think there have been many Russia players in the league over the years. Maybe she would make the most sense for Chicago since with the second lottery pick, they have more freedom to roll the dice.

Russia is trying to get back to international releveance in WBB.
Sun draft history is below I"m not sure I see several picks on international players even when the draft was 4 rounds.
WNBA Draft History: Connecticut Sun - WNBA.com - Official Site of the WNBA

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

A'ja has really expanded her game this season so I think she will be the number 1 pick.

 

[HopJim]

I also think that A'ja will likely be the number one pick. Too many offensive weapons. And as Geno said in one of his recent post-game pressers, the game is all about offense these days.

What I'm really curious about is where Nurse gets selected. I'm optimistic and think she'll get picked early in the second round, maybe even sooner!

I could see some teams picking Nurse ahead of Gabby. No slight on a great player, but Gabby not a strong offensive player. Also believe she will be guard in pros and will find quick guards more difficult to stay with than the bigs she currently contends with.

 

[HopJim]

I agree with what you say. I think Gabby will be viewed as a project to be converted to the guard position. You are spot on. She needs to develop a 3pt shot. In WNBA her ticky-tack fouls may be overlooked but so will the roughhouse fouls she will encounter under the hoop.

Agree with all points. Gabby one of my favorite UConn players ever BUT don't feel she will go in top 5.

 

[willtalk]

Well, ...we do have some pretty large and diverse states in this union of ours. If you get in your car and drive 7 hours most people would not consider themselves at home (anything) anymore regardless of how many state lines you cross to get there.

You make a good point! But what is just as important is familiarity. The area that Sparks is in is mountain and rural while LV is nust desert, show biz and and gambling. They have more in common with LA and Southern California than northern Nevada. Even Reno the closest larger city has nothing in common with LV other than gambling. I don't think people in the smaller states in the East understand the natural geographic and social divides that exist in the longer western states.

People in Norcal would be more likely to consider her one of us than those people in Las Vegas. We are closer to Reno,and Sparks which are right on the Central California border, than we are to Southern California or even a lot of Northern California. High schools from the town I live in had a yearly game with a team from Sparks. Heck they would also bring their team down for scrimmages and MLK games every year.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Right on willtalk. In Washington and Oregon there are rather large differences between the western and eastern portions of the states in terms of climate, geography, economics, politics, you name it.

 

[triaddukefan]

Right on willtalk. In Washington and Oregon there are rather large differences between the western and eastern portions of the states in terms of climate, geography, economics, politics, you name it.

Heck... even in a smaller state like NC.. the differences between western and eastern parts of the state are large.

 

[Shades]

I feel like the Sun have wasted several picks on players with no intention of coming over.

It's fairly common for teams to spend late round picks on foreign players just so they secure their rights in perpetuity. A good Sun example is Alba Torrens, who was drafted by the Sun at #36 in 2009. She has become a prominent player overseas and still is 8 years after the draft, but she has never played in the WNBA. She cites national team obligations.

In 2009, the Sun used the #9 pick to draft Astan Dabo, who has never played in the WNBA.

On the other hand, with the short W season it makes having a key player with significant national team commitments very hard.

If indeed Russia is trying to regain relevance in women's basketball, it would be in national team events, not the WNBA. Emphasis on national team events would mean practicing with the national team during the summer instead of playing in the WNBA.

I don't think there have been many Russia players in the league over the years.

As I stated earlier, I believe Svetlana Ambrosimova, who went through the NCAA system, is the Russian who has played the most in the WNBA. She was very westernized going to UConn. How westernized is Vadeeva? Does she speak English? Does she even have an interest in playing in the WNBA? These are important questions that need to be answered before we can properly assess Vadeeva's draft position.

Maybe she would make the most sense for Chicago since with the second lottery pick, they have more freedom to roll the dice.

Last year, Chicago had two first round picks, and neither of them played in the WNBA. I don't think the fans or organization were particularly happy about that. The #2 pick (Coates) was injured more severely than they may have anticipated. The #9 pick (Jankoska) got cut in camp. So I really don't think they're in the mood for gambling, especially with a high pick with very nice players that are available who they can be certain will show up.

 

[Carnac]

If you want to try and figure out which player will be drafted 1st, Let's look at who has the first pick: The Las Vegas Aces. What do they need? Everything.

Since they need everything, what's their BIGGEST need? A post player. Good post players ARE NOT in abundance. If you can get a good post player that you can develop and bring along in a year or two, and you don't have to give the farm away to do it, you grab her. You can get guards and forwards through free agency, trade and the draft, because there are more of them. Laimbeer is not going to build a dynasty overnight, everyone knows that. He can grab Wilson now. She can be his starter in Vegas for the next 10 years. In subsequent years, he can fill other holes.

Laimbeer has to re-tool this roster. It owns the worst record in the league the last two years. Why on earth would he go to battle with a roster that has already proven it can't win? The new owners DID NOT bring him in to go 8-26 again. If Laimbeer can get 8-10 more wins out of this new team the first year, THAT can be judged a success. 18-16 is a winning record. It's respectable. It's something to build on.

7-27 and 8-26 the last two seasons, there's nothing you can do with this except scrap it, and rebuild, starting over from square one. When you're at the very bottom, there's nowhere to go but up. If Laimbeer does not take Wilson, the Indiana Fever will with the second pick!!! He's closer to the Aces' situation than any of us. He knows what they need, and the direction he wants to go in.

Wilson is one of the most dominant players in this year's draft class. Why wouldn't you take her, especially if you have a need at her position? There are enough talented players coming out this year for him to get another good one in the second round.

He may put together a deal and trade 1-2 of his current players to another team for their 1st round pick. Expect him to live up to his moniker of "Trader Bill" during the 2018 draft. If he doesn't draft Wilson, who else can he draft that can help him win NOW more than her? We can all express our thoughts and opinions on who the first player drafted should be. Whether it's Wilson or someone else, Bill Laimbeer will be the person who will make that decision based on his assessment of his roster, and it's perceived biggest needs. He may not do what makes sense to us, but what makes sense to him.

Here's the first ten players that analyst Michelle Smith likes (and why) in April’s draft.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Heck... even in a smaller state like NC.. the differences between western and eastern parts of the state are large.

You've got some of the same elements in NC that we do here that can translate to significant differences (talking about geography and climate, I don't know about the other stuff there)--coastal areas w/ a significant mountain range inland. But I'm fairly certain you don't have sage brush growing on the inland part of the state like we do out here.

 

[Longtime fan]

If marketability (talent+personality+communication skills) means anything in the WNBA, Kia won't have to wait long for her name to be called on draft day. I'll be at the last home game to celebrate Kia and Gabby (I was at Maya's and am disappointed to say it wasn't a sellout; I think this one will be). I don't think I will have missed any graduating Senior more than I will these two. I don't care how talented your favorite player is, it's a different team when these two are on the floor, and a better one. 2018-2019 will be interesting.....

I agree. These are two of the best ever. Kia was solid from game one her freshman year, and is now bordering on superstar status. One of the league's best and toughest defenders, great on the fast break, out hustles everyone, and leads the country ( all of a sudden ) in three point accuracy. Gabby is the amazing athlete who can do anything. If she can get some more consistency on her outside shooting, she'll be unstoppable. Such a delight to watch her play. But don't overlook a similar anguish next senior night, when Pheesa and Katy Lou say so long. And, by that time, we'll have placed Azura Stevens in their league. An embarrassment of riches.

 

[CocoHusky]

It's fairly common for teams to spend late round picks on foreign players just so they secure their rights in perpetuity. A good Sun example is Alba Torrens, who was drafted by the Sun at #36 in 2009. She has become a prominent player overseas and still is 8 years after the draft, but she has never played in the WNBA. She cites national team obligations. In 2009, the Sun used the #9 pick to draft Astan Dabo, who has never played in the WNBA.

2009? Are we really talking about WNBA picks from 2009?

If indeed Russia is trying to regain relevance in women's basketball, it would be in national team events, not the WNBA. Emphasis on national team events would mean practicing with the national team during the summer instead of playing in the WNBA.

Lost me here. Name any National team that practices during the summer in Non-Olympic or world Championship years?

As I stated earlier, I believe Svetlana Ambrosimova, who went through the NCAA system, is the Russian who has played the most in the WNBA. She was very westernized going to UConn. How westernized is Vadeeva? Does she speak English? Does she even have an interest in playing in the WNBA? These are important questions that need to be answered before we can properly assess Vadeeva's draft position.

OMG! We are talking about playing basketball not being a translator for the UN. Vadeeva currently has at least three current WNBA teammates Angel, Nneka, & Ephiphany. I wonder how well Angel or Nneka speak Russia?

Last year, Chicago had two first round picks, and neither of them played in the WNBA. I don't think the fans or organization were particularly happy about that. The #2 pick (Coates) was injured more severely than they may have anticipated. The #9 pick (Jankoska) got cut in camp. So I really don't think they're in the mood for gambling, especially with a high pick with very nice players that are available who they can be certain will show up.

I think all that proves is Chicago sucks at drafting-apologies @Orangutan. Vadeeva is no gamble.

 

[bballnut90]

I could see some teams picking Nurse ahead of Gabby. No slight on a great player, but Gabby not a strong offensive player. Also believe she will be guard in pros and will find quick guards more difficult to stay with than the bigs she currently contends with.

I don’t see it. Any team would be foolish to take Nurse over Gabby if they’re both on the table. Gabby has so much more upside than Kia and she can do a lot more on the court. Kia is shooting lights out, but aside from hitting open shots and playing aggressive defense, I don’t see anything about her that really stands out. In the W guards need to be playmakers and be able to hit other shots that aren’t just catch and shoot looks. So far this year almost every basket I’ve seen Nurse take and make has been an uncontested jumper. The good thing is she doesn’t take bad shots, but i haven’t seen any consistent ability to create for herself or drive the lane.

 

[Shades]

2009? Are we really talking about WNBA picks from 2009?

I don't understand why you would object. You presented the Connecticut Sun draft history and challenged the guy with "I'm not sure I see several picks on international players even when the draft was 4 rounds." The drafts with 4 rounds were about 15 years ago.

Speaking of ancient history, I challenge you find a drafted foreign player for any WNBA team that was worth a lottery pick. The only one I can think of is Lauren Jackson in 2001. Elizabeth Cambage from 2011 might still turn out to be worth it, but she hasn't panned out so far. Is Vadeeva the next Lauren Jackson? I wish her well but I really don't think so.

Lost me here. Name any National team that practices during the summer in Non-Olympic or world Championship years?

The Spanish team must because that's always been Torrens' excuse. Any team trying for international relevance probably should be practicing all they can. USA seems to be the only team that doesn't practice a lot.

OMG! We are talking about playing basketball not being a translator for the UN. Vadeeva currently has at least three current WNBA teammates Angel, Nneka, & Ephiphany. I wonder how well Angel or Nneka speak Russia?

I'm not saying it's a deal-breaker, but having seen a couple foreign players who didn't know a lick of English go through the Lynx system, it is a big pain in the butt, so the player really has to be worth it. The overseas teams need American players to be competitive, so they're used to dealing with the communication barriers. I remember Agler releasing a Polish player from the Storm because of communication issues.

I think all that proves is Chicago sucks at drafting-apologies @Orangutan.

They had two strikes last year, and drafting Vadeeva that high this year would be a third strike. Amber Stocks... you're OUT!

Vadeeva is no gamble

Hey, I'm all for raising Vadeeva's position on my draft board, but hype doesn't cut it for me. I need real information.
*Does she speak or understand English?
*Does she want to play for the WNBA at all?
*Does she want to play for the WNBA every year?
*Why does she only get 20 mpg in Euroleague?

These seem like simple questions to me, the answers to which would raise or drop Vadeeva's position on my draft board. CocoHusky, if you're so passionate about Vadeeva, you should already know the answers to these questions.

 

[CocoHusky]

I don't understand why you would object. You presented the Connecticut Sun draft history and challenged the guy with "I'm not sure I see several picks on international players even when the draft was 4 rounds." The drafts with 4 rounds were about 15 years ago.
Speaking of ancient history, I challenge you find a drafted foreign player for any WNBA team that was worth a lottery pick. The only one I can think of is Lauren Jackson in 2001. Elizabeth Cambage from 2011 might still turn out to be worth it, but she hasn't panned out so far. Is Vadeeva the next Lauren Jackson? I wish her well but I really don't think so.

Worth the pick is rather subjective. A foreign player has been drafted in the first round of the last 4 WNBA drafts.
2017 Evelyn Akhator #3 pick in WNBA draft is Nigerian
2016 Jonquel Jones (JJ) #6 pick in WNBA draft is from Bahamas
2016 Adut Bulgak #12 pick in WNBA draft is from Canada
2015 Amanda Zahui B #2 pick is from Sweden
2014 Natalie Achonwa # 9 pick in WNBA draft is from Canada
I go out on a limb and say that JJ was worth that pick.

The Spanish team must because that's always been Torrens' excuse. Any team trying for international relevance probably should be practicing all they can. USA seems to be the only team that doesn't practice a lot.

I'd check that "excuse" if I were you.

I'm not saying it's a deal-breaker, but having seen a couple foreign players who didn't know a lick of English go through the Lynx system, it is a big pain in the butt, so the player really has to be worth it. The overseas teams need American players to be competitive, so they're used to dealing with the communication barriers. I remember Agler releasing a Polish player from the Storm because of communication issues.

If you are a good enough ball player and need a translator you'll get one. If you aren't any good a translator isn't going to make much of a difference. IMO that's a rather misinformed view to think that overseas teams need American players to be competitive.

They had two strikes last year, and drafting Vadeeva that high this year would be a third strike. Amber Stocks... you're OUT!

I see baseball is not you sport either, drafting Vadeeva would be a home run in baseball lingo.

Hey, I'm all for raising Vadeeva's position on my draft board, but hype doesn't cut it for me. I need real information.
*Does she speak or understand English?
*Does she want to play for the WNBA at all?
*Does she want to play for the WNBA every year?
*Why does she only get 20 mpg in Euroleague?

No..... Don't bother raising her position on your board!
Answers:
*You are still talking about drafting a basketball player right?
*See answer directly above
* Sure why not.
* Because she's only 19 years old playing behind the former WNBA MVP.

These seem like simple questions to me, the answers to which would raise or drop Vadeeva's position on my draft board. CocoHusky, if you're so passionate about Vadeeva, you should already know the answers to these questions.

I do know the answers but she is already high on MY BOARD-why should I help you with your homework?

 

[sivad40]

Worth the pick is rather subjective. A foreign player has been drafted in the first round of the last 4 WNBA drafts.
2017 Evelyn Akhator #3 pick in WNBA draft is Nigerian
2016 Jonquel Jones (JJ) #6 pick in WNBA draft is from Bahamas
2016 Adut Bulgak #12 pick in WNBA draft is from Canada
2015 Amanda Zahui B #2 pick is from Sweden
2014 Natalie Achonwa # 9 pick in WNBA draft is from Canada
I go out on a limb and say that JJ was worth that pick.

Shades should have said international player instead of foreign player as to not get caught up in semantics. All those foreign players you mentioned played college ball in the US, Lauren Jackson and Elizabeth Cambage did not.

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

Heck... even in a smaller state like NC.. the differences between western and eastern parts of the state are large.

Same in SC, especially in terms of politics.

 

[bballnut90]

Any international player is higher risk due to the fact that they consistently miss more WNBA seasons than collegiate players. If you look at the last 12-13 WNBA 1st rounds, the only international players who were selected in the first round are:
2012 #9 Astan Dabo, C, Mali...never played in the league. Not sure if she wasn't good enough or she decided to not come over.
2012 #12 Damiris Dantas, C, Brazil....has missed several WNBA seasons due to overseas commitments
2011 #2 Elizabeth Cambage, C, Australia.....played 2 seasons and bounced
2007 #13 Sandrine Gruda, C, France...has missed most WNBA seasons

Other notable international players who've played in the league the past 10-15 years include:
Maria Stepanova-missed many WNBA seasons
Penny Taylor-missed Olympic years
Lauren Jackson-pretty consistently played until 2012


Vadeeva seems like a strong player who could be worth a high pick, but GMs should consider that international players are prone to missing multiple seasons.

 

[GoCardinal]

The whole missing seasons/games thing could be said for Kia Nurse. Ruth Hamblin just missed an entire season, Achonwa typically misses games for Indiana when national team commitments come around. Still, Vadeeva is probably the second best big eligible for selection.

 

[Orangutan]

I think all that proves is Chicago sucks at drafting-apologies @Orangutan. Vadeeva is no gamble.

Well, Chicago does suck at drafting.

I happen to agree with Shades. The European players miss a lot of time with national team commitments. They are also more likely to just not bother coming to the US.

There are enough good players in this draftvthat I don't see Vadeeva as a lottery pick, even if she is a lottery worthy talent.

 

[bballnut90]

The whole missing seasons/games thing could be said for Kia Nurse. Ruth Hamblin just missed an entire season, Achonwa typically misses games for Indiana when national team commitments come around. Still, Vadeeva is probably the second best big eligible for selection.

I'd worry less about a foreign player playing college basketball entering the pros than an international player who hasn't played in the states yet. I haven't looked at data, but I'd bet the vast majority of foreign born college basketball players (like Kia Nurse/Achonwa/Abrosimova) miss far fewer games/seasons due to international commitments compared to players who are playing in the US for the first time.

 

[GoCardinal]

I'd worry less about a foreign player playing college basketball entering the pros than an international player who hasn't played in the states yet. I haven't looked at data, but I'd bet the vast majority of foreign born college basketball players (like Kia Nurse/Achonwa/Abrosimova) miss far fewer games/seasons due to international commitments compared to players who are playing in the US for the first time.

Doesn’t really matter whether they played in college or not. It truly depends on the player or team. Like I said, Hamblin was willing to take the entire year off and this was only her second season. Vadeeva very well could take time off every time the Russian NT needed her to, or she could stay in the US nearly every time. Nobody knows.

I will say she is one of the most talented Russian players now, so she’s probably a lock for every competition they enter. Compromises can be made though if she’s serious about doing both. Similar thing happened with Cambage when she skipped Opals camp for a music festival. She only was removed temporarily because the Opals said she didn’t comply, despite efforts made by the team to compromise. It all ended up working out though.

What we do know is she has gained enough attention around the WNBA to be in the lottery pick conversation. So I’m sure teams are probably more familiar with her intentions.

 

[SCspur]

If no other player in the 2018 draft can do this.... then this entire thread is useless lol